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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 3, 2006 8:24:08 GMT -5
Has nothing to do with supporting the war in Afghanistan or anywhere else, and it has nothing to do with secular politics. When you give to the poppy campaign you remember the war dead and help the living and the dependents of those who have served our country. However, it also serves another purpose: Remembrance is the cornerstone of The Royal Canadian Legion's work in Canada. The Poppy Campaign is a major source of funds used to assist veterans, ex-service people and their dependents.Please see Lest we forgetPlease show your support whenever possible. Thanks. Rick
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Post by Polarice on Nov 3, 2006 8:33:29 GMT -5
LOL I already bought 5 of them.....keep losing the darn things. You marching this year Dis?...I haven't for the last couple of years, but they asked me again, so I guess I better this year!!
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 3, 2006 8:42:01 GMT -5
I won't be marching this year, Polarice but if they ask me I will. I usually attend a very small service in my community that is the responsibility of one of our local reserve units. After leaving my poppy on one of the wreaths I usually go back to the Legion for some chowder and a beer.
Last year the colour sergeant asked me to renew my Legion membership for the intent of handing me his pace stick within a year. I politely told him that I just took the uniform off a few years back and that I really wasn't into carrying a pace stick again at this point in time.
But, I think I understood his method. The Legion membership is aging rapidly and they're trying to recruit another generation of members (this guy was a sergeant when I was a private) so as to keep the tradition going. I don't think he'll have too many worries there. The veteran ranks in Canada have been swelling in recent years once again.
May join up again in the future. Will probably coax a few of my peers to do the same.
Cheers.
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Post by Polarice on Nov 3, 2006 9:06:07 GMT -5
Yeah, I love going to the Legion after the Parade!!
I have a lot of friends who are still enlisted so I stay in the loop, I don't have much time for the Legion and to be truthful to join is not in my future, however, when I get up in the years it maybe something I'll seriously look at.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 3, 2006 9:21:18 GMT -5
Probably for the same reasons I haven't renewed my membership, Polarice. Just a different generation in there. It's a cheap place where many seniors can hang out, play their card and dart tournaments and talk to others from their time. The cheap beer is attractive though Cheers.
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Post by jkr on Nov 10, 2006 8:01:30 GMT -5
I buy the poppies every year - it's out of respect for the armed forces but especially my father.
The funny thing is that he spent 3 years inside a tank during WWII but he rarely wears a poppy and has never joined the legion. He was just a young man doing the right thing. He doesn't talk about it much & when he does, it is all about the people he knew & the friends he made.
Gotta go. Time for work & I am getting a little misty thinking about this.
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Post by Polarice on Nov 10, 2006 9:38:42 GMT -5
I buy the poppies every year - it's out of respect for the armed forces but especially my father. The funny thing is that he spent 3 years inside a tank during WWII but he rarely wears a poppy and has never joined the legion. He was just a young man doing the right thing. He doesn't talk about it much & when he does, it is all about the people he knew & the friends he made. Gotta go. Time for work & I am getting a little misty thinking about this. My Grandfather was a Tank Mechanic in WWII, when it broke down in the field, it was his job to get out during a battle and try and fix it before they got blown to bits. One of the stories he told me still stands out because it was kinda funny, was that, they had been in a battle in France and they were on their way back to their base. They were the only tank left and were alone heading back. One of their "jobs" was to investigate abandoned homes because the Germans would often use them to hid out in. Being kids and kinda lazy and or too scared to actually go in they would fire off some warning shots and wait, if no one came out they would blow up the house. Well this one time they came across an old farm house, every thing was gone animals, barn etc, but the house was still standing, they only had one shell left and didn't want to risk wasting it on this shack, so the driver decided just to drive through the house, well that was a bad decision, because the tank fell through the floor and landed in the cold cellar. Off course they couldn't get out and had to walk miles to the base in order for another tank to pull them out. Not sure what kind of trouble they would have gotten into, but I don't think the CO would have found it too funny.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 10, 2006 10:30:04 GMT -5
It's a sad state of affairs when young Canadians acknowledge Douglas MacAruther as a Canadian war hero, yet have no idea who Arthur Currie, Billy Bishop or Ernest 'Smokey' Smith were. I know a lot of us work on Monday but if nothing else please buy a poppy. Cdns. losing knowledge of military history: study Updated Fri. Nov. 10 2006 8:46 AM ET
CTV.ca News Staff
Just one day before Canadians pause to remember those who fought for freedom, a new survey suggests our collective knowledge of Canadian military history is eroding.
The survey by the Dominion Institute found that only 42 per cent of Canadians received a passing grade on a simple test of First World War knowledge.
In a multiple choice quiz, only 33 per cent of those quizzed identified First World War commander Sir Arthur Currie and legendary flying ace Billy Bishop as Canadian military heroes from a list of only four. The other two names on the list belonged to U.S. Civil War leader Ulysses S. Grant and American Gen. Douglas MacArthur.
And one quarter of those surveyed picked MacArthur as a Canadian war hero.
Among young Canadians, the grades were even worse, with only three out of every 10 young Canadians passing a four-question quiz. The lowest grades came from Quebec's young people.
Along with those dismal results, the survey, which was conducted during the last week of October, revealed that Canadians are having a harder and harder time remembering the names of Canadian war heroes.
Rudyard Griffiths, executive director of the Dominion Institute said the results were upsetting.
"If you compare them with similar polls in the past, there is a decline in knowledge and a decline in Remembrance Day commitment," Griffiths told The Globe and Mail.
"This is a dangerous moment [for Remembrance Day], as we move from a society that still has living links to the experience of war to generations who no longer have that direct, living link."
The results underline the need to "redouble" efforts to ensure Canadians maintain a sense of history and the events that helped shape Canada, Griffiths said.
The results, which came one day before Remembrance Day which will be celebrated across Canada on Saturday, suggest numbers will be down at this year's ceremonies.
Only 41 per cent of those surveyed said they planned to attend a Remembrance Day service on Friday, a significant drop from 58 per cent in 2001 and 50 per cent last year.
But anecdotal evidence seems to suggest Canadians still respect Remembrance Day, despite the dwindling numbers of First and Second World War veterans.
Last year, more than 25,000 people attended the national ceremony in Ottawa, a steep increase from the roughly 7,000 people who typically attended during the 1990s.
More than 1,000 Canadians were surveyed. The results are considered accurate to within 3.1 percentage points 19 times out of 20.
The survey was carried out by the Dominion Institute's Innovative Research Group.
With files from The Canadian Presswww.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20061110/remember_quiz_061110/20061110?hub=TopStories
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Post by jkr on Nov 10, 2006 18:32:47 GMT -5
I buy the poppies every year - it's out of respect for the armed forces but especially my father. The funny thing is that he spent 3 years inside a tank during WWII but he rarely wears a poppy and has never joined the legion. He was just a young man doing the right thing. He doesn't talk about it much & when he does, it is all about the people he knew & the friends he made. Gotta go. Time for work & I am getting a little misty thinking about this. My Grandfather was a Tank Mechanic in WWII, when it broke down in the field, it was his job to get out during a battle and try and fix it before they got blown to bits. One of the stories he told me still stands out because it was kinda funny, was that, they had been in a battle in France and they were on their way back to their base. They were the only tank left and were alone heading back. One of their "jobs" was to investigate abandoned homes because the Germans would often use them to hid out in. Being kids and kinda lazy and or too scared to actually go in they would fire off some warning shots and wait, if no one came out they would blow up the house. Well this one time they came across an old farm house, every thing was gone animals, barn etc, but the house was still standing, they only had one shell left and didn't want to risk wasting it on this shack, so the driver decided just to drive through the house, well that was a bad decision, because the tank fell through the floor and landed in the cold cellar. Off course they couldn't get out and had to walk miles to the base in order for another tank to pull them out. Not sure what kind of trouble they would have gotten into, but I don't think the CO would have found it too funny. That's pretty funny Polarice. My favourite war story was something my dad told me about. They were in Belgium & looking for a place to bunk. They came across an abandoned farm house that still had some animals around. They proceeded to dig a trench for protection( they would park the tank over it). While one of the guys was still asleep in this trench my dad & a couple of other guys from the crew found a pig in the barn. They carried it out, lowered it into the trench & waited. Needless to say, the wait wasn't long & the results hilarious when their buddy woke up next to a sow. Of course, the story sounds better when my father tells it, he's got a real gift for that sort of thing.
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Post by Skilly on Nov 11, 2006 13:54:42 GMT -5
My grandfather rarely spoke of the war. You could see the pain in his face when someone mentioned it ... but he shared some stories with my step-father and others towards the end of his life.
He served mainly in Northern Africa as a gunner.
I gave the eulogy at his funeral. I said it then, and it will probably be true until the day I die .... he was my hero, the only true hero I ever knew.
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Post by Skilly on Nov 11, 2006 13:59:36 GMT -5
It's a sad state of affairs when young Canadians acknowledge Douglas MacAruther as a Canadian war hero, yet have no idea who Arthur Currie, Billy Bishop or Ernest 'Smokey' Smith were. I know a lot of us work on Monday but if nothing else please buy a poppy. Cdns. losing knowledge of military history: study Updated Fri. Nov. 10 2006 8:46 AM ET
CTV.ca News Staff
Just one day before Canadians pause to remember those who fought for freedom, a new survey suggests our collective knowledge of Canadian military history is eroding.
The survey by the Dominion Institute found that only 42 per cent of Canadians received a passing grade on a simple test of First World War knowledge.
In a multiple choice quiz, only 33 per cent of those quizzed identified First World War commander Sir Arthur Currie and legendary flying ace Billy Bishop as Canadian military heroes from a list of only four. The other two names on the list belonged to U.S. Civil War leader Ulysses S. Grant and American Gen. Douglas MacArthur.
And one quarter of those surveyed picked MacArthur as a Canadian war hero.
Among young Canadians, the grades were even worse, with only three out of every 10 young Canadians passing a four-question quiz. The lowest grades came from Quebec's young people.
Along with those dismal results, the survey, which was conducted during the last week of October, revealed that Canadians are having a harder and harder time remembering the names of Canadian war heroes.
Rudyard Griffiths, executive director of the Dominion Institute said the results were upsetting.
"If you compare them with similar polls in the past, there is a decline in knowledge and a decline in Remembrance Day commitment," Griffiths told The Globe and Mail.
"This is a dangerous moment [for Remembrance Day], as we move from a society that still has living links to the experience of war to generations who no longer have that direct, living link."
The results underline the need to "redouble" efforts to ensure Canadians maintain a sense of history and the events that helped shape Canada, Griffiths said.
The results, which came one day before Remembrance Day which will be celebrated across Canada on Saturday, suggest numbers will be down at this year's ceremonies.
Only 41 per cent of those surveyed said they planned to attend a Remembrance Day service on Friday, a significant drop from 58 per cent in 2001 and 50 per cent last year.
But anecdotal evidence seems to suggest Canadians still respect Remembrance Day, despite the dwindling numbers of First and Second World War veterans.
Last year, more than 25,000 people attended the national ceremony in Ottawa, a steep increase from the roughly 7,000 people who typically attended during the 1990s.
More than 1,000 Canadians were surveyed. The results are considered accurate to within 3.1 percentage points 19 times out of 20.
The survey was carried out by the Dominion Institute's Innovative Research Group.
With files from The Canadian Presswww.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20061110/remember_quiz_061110/20061110?hub=TopStoriesThis is truly sad. Dis, if I may be so bold, I'd also like to add another to this list that should not be forgotten (although none of them should be forgotten as far as I am concerned) October 14, 1918 at Ledeghem, Belgium, for which Ricketts was awarded the VC.
No. 3102 Pte. Thomas Ricketts, 1st Battalion, R. Newfoundland R.
For most conspicuous bravery and devotion to duty on the 14 October 1918, during the advance from Ledeghem, when the attack was temporarily held up by heavy hostile fire and the platoon to which he belonged suffered severe casualties from the fire of a battery at point-blank range.
Pte. Ricketts at once volunteered to go forward with his section commander and a Lewis gun to attempt to outflank the battery. Advancing by short rushes under heavy fire from enemy machine guns with the hostile battery, their ammunition was exhausted when still 300 yards from the battery. The enemy, seeing an opportunity to get their field guns away, began to bring up their gun teams. Pte. Ricketts, at once realising the situation, doubled back 100 yards under the heaviest machine-gun fire, procured further ammunition, and dashed back again to the Lewis gun, and by very accurate fire drove the enemy and the gun teams into a farm.
His platoon then advanced without casualties, and captured the four field guns, four machine guns, and eight prisoners.
A fifth field gun was subsequently intercepted by fire and captured.
By his presence of mind in anticipating the enemy intention and his utter disregard of personal safety, Pte. Ricketts secured the further supply of ammunition which directly resulted in these important captures and undoubtedly saved many lives.
I work with the Gov't of Newfoundland, and all our boats are named after battles, or war heros. Many times it has been suggested to rename one of our boats "Thomas Ricketts". We always have the same answer. None of our boats are worthy enough for the name. We are currently in the process of building 2-3 new vessels. Maybe one of them (since they will be new) will get the honour.
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Post by duster on Nov 11, 2006 15:12:34 GMT -5
Interesting. The Coast Guard does name its icebreakers after people (Louis St-Laurent etc...). Is this what you meant? Unless you are suggesting a name for a Provincial or Coast Guard vessel, the Canadian Navy traditionally does not name its ships after people. Likely, the new JSS will have names such as "Magnificent" and "Bonaventure" or, perhaps some of the names used in the past e.g. "Kootenay", "Mackenzie" etc... i.e. names that are politically neutral. One can imagine the tempest in a teacup if they named a ship "Vimy" or "Ortona" or even "Thomas Ricketts". Jack Layton, Duceppe, and co. would be all over that like a wet shirt. No pleasing some...
As an aside, I was watching a movie entitled "The Trench" last night. A great cast and I think a very realistic portrait of the two days immediately leading to July 1st 1916.
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Post by Skilly on Nov 11, 2006 16:20:22 GMT -5
Interesting. The Coast Guard does name its icebreakers after people (Louis St-Laurent etc...). Is this what you meant? Unless you are suggesting a name for a Provincial or Coast Guard vessel, the Canadian Navy traditionally does not name its ships after people. Likely, the new JSS will have names such as "Magnificent" and "Bonaventure" or, perhaps some of the names used in the past e.g. "Kootenay", "Mackenzie" etc... i.e. names that are politically neutral. One can imagine the tempest in a teacup if they named a ship "Vimy" or "Ortona" or even "Thomas Ricketts". Jack Layton, Duceppe, and co. would be all over that like a wet shirt. No pleasing some... As an aside, I was watching a movie entitled "The Trench" last night. A great cast and I think a very realistic portrait of the two days immediately leading to July 1st 1916. Yes they are provincial ferries. "The Beaumont Hamel" "The Flanders" We do have ones non militarily named ... "Earl Windsor", "Nonia", ... but I have been told that alot of requests surface for names with military significance. "Vimy Ridge", "Thomas Ricketts" ...etc.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 11, 2006 16:54:06 GMT -5
Thanks Skilly. I've toured the WW I and WW II battlefields several times when I was posted to Europe. I found Mrs. Dis' great uncle resting in Dieppe Canadian Military Cemetery. He was killed during the big raid and I was able to send a clear photo of the headstone back to his brother. It's impossible to see all of the memorials. However, I was able to find several Newfoundland memorials along the route. At one time the old forward edge of battle area or FEBA was the old hwy N17 that runs north to south through Northern France (can't remember how far up it goes though). It's not hard to find the NFLD Battlefield sites. They're marked very well and easily seen from the highway you're traveling on. However, each also has a statue of a roaring caribou on the battlefield itself. I saw three; Beaumont Hamel I've been told there isn't a family in Newfoundland that hasn't been touched by this battle. The names of those who failed to answer roll call the following day are inscribed on a bronze plate below the statue. Incidently, the last time I was over to Beaumont Hamel was in '97 as part of a colour party to commemorate the Battle of Vimy Ridge. The curator was a young man by the name of Steven Austin. I have his business card around here somewhere, but he's a native Newfoundlander. If I find his card I'll pass on the info. Gueudecourt This statue stands over the German trench lines the Newfoundlanders took from the Germans. Masnières And as I was saying, each site is well marked. I could talk about WWI for hours. I became a student of it when I was overseas. And before I forget, each of the Newfoundland memorials has something in common other than the statues themselves. Each of the Caribou were erected facing in the direction of Newfoundland. Cheers.
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Post by Skilly on Nov 11, 2006 17:06:49 GMT -5
Hey Dis
We have a ferry named "Caribou" as well (in honour of those sites). If I remember correctly ... there 4 Caribou sites (?) in the world. (Three in France and one in St. John's) One of the Caribou statues is in a local park here in St. John's, not far from the "Fighting Newfoundlander" statue that SpidermanNL posted in the other thread.
Beaumont Hamel is said to have affected every Newfoundland household. Of the more than 800 soldiers, only 68 answered the role call the following morning. It is recognized as one of the greatest slaughters a country has had to endure. Newfoundland was a small country during WWI. While the rest of the country celebrates Canada Day on July 1, Newfoundland mourns the loss of those men on July 1 (Memorial day here).
I personally did not know anyone who was lost in the battle, but that battle wiped out practically 3 generations of Newfoundlanders in some communities.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 11, 2006 18:07:54 GMT -5
Hey Dis We have a ferry named "Caribou" as well (in honour of those sites). If I remember correctly ... there 4 Caribou sites (?) in the world. (Three in France and one in St. John's) One of the Caribou statues is in a local park here in St. John's, not far from the "Fighting Newfoundlander" statue that SpidermanNL posted in the other thread. One caribou in each of the following battlefields. Beaumont Hamel, Gueudecourt, Masnières (those three I've been to), Monchy le Preux. I'm going to keep looking but I honestly thought there were six statues commemorating Newfoundland's troops. I'll search it later. But not tonight. Terrible day for sure. The worst single day in the history of the British Empire militarily speaking. The Battlefield is a pretty sobering experience. Hope you get over there some time. Cheers.
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Post by Skilly on Nov 11, 2006 18:23:27 GMT -5
One caribou in each of the following battlefields. Beaumont Hamel, Gueudecourt, Masnières (those three I've been to), Monchy le Preux. I'm going to keep looking but I honestly thought there were six statues commemorating Newfoundland's troops. I'll search it later. But not tonight. There is one in Courtrai (?) in Belgium. So there is six. I got confused with another statue in Bowring Park (where the Caribou is) called Peter Pan. There is only 6 or 7 of them in the world also. And before I forget, each of the Newfoundland memorials has something in common other than the statues themselves. Each of the Caribou were erected facing in the direction of Newfoundland. Cheers. This may be true Dis ... but I always thought the statues were erected with the Caribou facing the direction from which the enemy attack came.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 12, 2006 0:41:04 GMT -5
One caribou in each of the following battlefields. Beaumont Hamel, Gueudecourt, Masnières (those three I've been to), Monchy le Preux. I'm going to keep looking but I honestly thought there were six statues commemorating Newfoundland's troops. I'll search it later. But not tonight. There is one in Courtrai (?) in Belgium. So there is six. I got confused with another statue in Bowring Park (where the Caribou is) called Peter Pan. There is only 6 or 7 of them in the world also. And before I forget, each of the Newfoundland memorials has something in common other than the statues themselves. Each of the Caribou were erected facing in the direction of Newfoundland. Cheers. This may be true Dis ... but I always thought the statues were erected with the Caribou facing the direction from which the enemy attack came. Hi Skilly, I've had a few 'pionts' tonight so I'll pull out some of my material tomorrow night (will be in Ottawa for a brief visit tomorrow). The reference I'm using is "Before Endeavours Fade." I picked it up when I was visiting the Ypres salient and it has the 'caribou-pointing-to-Newfoundland' reference in there. And, yes, you're right about the Caribou in Courtrai. The other reference I use is an old Shell gas station map I picked up overseas that has the Newfoundland and Canadian WWI war sites circled on it (did this myself). Back then I just circled the sites as we came upon them. I have it packed away but can pull it out tomorrow night. But, like I said, I've had a few 'points' tonight. Later my friend. Cheers.
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Post by Skilly on Nov 12, 2006 21:42:29 GMT -5
Like I said Dis ... I am ignorant on the issue. But I thought that it pointed in the direction of the enemy advance in the same way as the rider on a horse statue faces his enemy. My only question would be ..."do they all face the same point in Newfoundland?" or "Do they just face west, signifying the direction in which Newfoundland is relative to Europe?" I googled "Caribou Statues" and came up with this from the War Amps - Canadian Military Heritage website: The Significance of the Six Bronze Caribou
War Amps CEO, Cliff Chadderton, and President of Operation Legacy, Adele Fifield, were honoured to go to Beaumont-Hamel. See through Adele's eyes what the brave Newfoundlanders encountered on that fateful day - July 1st, 1916.
We were in France on this particular occasion to commemorate the role of the Newfoundlanders in the First World War. The Blue Puttees highlights these battles, and although they were involved in other battles, the Newfoundlanders made outstanding contributions in five locations - Monchy le Preux, Masnières, Gueudecourt, Beaumont-Hamel (all in France) and Courtrai in Belgium.
To memorialize these locations large bronze caribou statues were commissioned. Only six of these caribou were made, five stand in the locations noted above, and the sixth one is located in Bowring Park in St. John's, Newfoundland. Interestingly, the caribou statues in France and Belgium all stand to face in the direction from which the enemy attack came. waramps.ca/military/legacy/beaumont/caribou.htmlAn interesting point though, that I am now interested in, is what direction the Caribou here in St. John's faces and whether there is a significance to why it faces the way it does. (Should be easy for me to find out which direction it faces since my wedding pictures are taken next to it. but the significance could take some time) EDIT: The Caribou here faces east ... towards Europe. Not sure if that was on purpose. All statues were from the same mould, and all mounted on Newfoundland granite with surrounding tress and foliage from Newfoundland ... The caribou here in Newfoundland is an exact replaica of the Beaumont Hamel Caribou.
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Post by PTH on Nov 12, 2006 21:48:32 GMT -5
..... One can imagine the tempest in a teacup if they named a ship "Vimy" or "Ortona" or even "Thomas Ricketts". Jack Layton, Duceppe, and co. would be all over that like a wet shirt. No pleasing some... Hmm, even as a pretty strong Quebec nationalist, I can't see myself objecting to naming a ship after an event that the whole country was involved, or that was important for one part (as long as ship-naming is fairly balanced - ie, a new Chicoutimi at the same time as a new Thomas Ricketts, etc.).
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 12, 2006 22:12:59 GMT -5
Like I said Dis ... I am ignorant on the issue. But I thought that it pointed in the direction of the enemy advance in the same way as the rider on a horse statue faces his enemy. My only question would be ..."do they all face the same point in Newfoundland?" or "Do they just face west, signifying the direction in which Newfoundland is relative to Europe?" I googled "Caribou Statues" and came up with this from the War Amps - Canadian Military Heritage website: The Significance of the Six Bronze Caribou
War Amps CEO, Cliff Chadderton, and President of Operation Legacy, Adele Fifield, were honoured to go to Beaumont-Hamel. See through Adele's eyes what the brave Newfoundlanders encountered on that fateful day - July 1st, 1916.
We were in France on this particular occasion to commemorate the role of the Newfoundlanders in the First World War. The Blue Puttees highlights these battles, and although they were involved in other battles, the Newfoundlanders made outstanding contributions in five locations - Monchy le Preux, Masnières, Gueudecourt, Beaumont-Hamel (all in France) and Courtrai in Belgium.
To memorialize these locations large bronze caribou statues were commissioned. Only six of these caribou were made, five stand in the locations noted above, and the sixth one is located in Bowring Park in St. John's, Newfoundland. Interestingly, the caribou statues in France and Belgium all stand to face in the direction from which the enemy attack came. waramps.ca/military/legacy/beaumont/caribou.htmlAn interesting point though, that I am now interested in, is what direction the Caribou here in St. John's faces and whether there is a significance to why it faces the way it does. (Should be easy for me to find out which direction it faces since my wedding pictures are taken next to it. but the significance could take some time) Thanks Skilly. I eventually found my book and am unable to find the reference. But, I know I heard about the Caribou pointing towards NFLD from somewhere. If I do find one I'll post it. If not, then it's probably an urban legend of sorts. Thanks again. Cheers.
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Post by franko on Nov 13, 2006 8:32:49 GMT -5
Surprised this didn't make it on the link. Sorry it's late -- was away. Pittance Of Time Go here for the full story.
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