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Post by Skilly on Dec 17, 2006 21:18:12 GMT -5
Vatican Hopes to Look Inside Found Tomb
The Associated Press
By DANIELA PETROFF
December 11, 2006
A white marble sarcophagus believed to be the final resting place of St. Paul has been unearthed from beneath the altar of Rome's second-largest basilica after centuries hidden from view, but those curious about its contents will have to wait still longer.
Vatican experts, announcing Monday that the coffin had been unearthed, said they hoped to be able to examine it more closely and maybe even look inside.
But Giorgio Filippi, a Vatican archaeologist, said researchers' first concern was to free it from centuries of plaster and debris in the hope of finding other clues on the sarcophagus itself.
'Right now we can treat it as a symbol, regardless of its contents,' Filippi said.
According to tradition, St. Paul, also known as the apostle of the Gentiles, was beheaded in Rome in the 1st century during the persecution of early Christians by Roman emperors. Popular belief holds that bone fragments from his head are in another Rome basilica, St. John Lateran, with his other remains inside the sarcophagus.
The 8-foot-long coffin, which dates from at least A.D. 390 and was buried under the main altar of St. Paul's Outside the Walls Basilica, has been the subject of an extended excavation that began in 2002 and ended last month.
'These excavations give us the full certainty and knowledge that the sarcophagus is St. Paul's tomb, whether it contains his remains or not,' said Cardinal Andrea Cordero Lanza di Montezemolo, head of the basilica.
The cardinal said X-rays were unlikely to penetrate the thick marble, making it necessary to open the tomb to find out what is inside. 'It has never been opened or explored,' he said.
Filippi said the decision to unearth the sarcophagus was made after pilgrims who came to Rome during the Roman Catholic Church's 2000 Jubilee year expressed disappointment at finding that the saint's tomb _ buried under layers of plaster and further hidden by an iron grate _ could not be visited or touched.
The top of the coffin has small openings _ subsequently covered with mortar _ because in ancient times Christians would insert offerings or try to touch the remains.
Work in the small area under the altar, to clear the debris and insert a transparent glass floor for better viewing, unearthed new evidence of the authenticity of the sarcophagus, said Filippi, who headed the project.
'Our purpose was not to find out what was inside, but to confirm that it was the original sarcophagus,' Filippi said.
The basilica stands at the site of two 4th-century churches _ including one destroyed by a fire in 1823 that had left the tomb visible, first above ground and later in a crypt. After the fire, the crypt was filled with earth and covered by a new altar. A slab of cracked marble with the words 'Paul apostle martyr' in Latin was also found embedded in the floor above the tomb.
'We were always certain that the tomb had to be there, beneath the papal altar,' Filippi said.
Paul, along with Peter, are the two main figures known for spreading the Christian faith after the death of Christ.
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Post by Toronthab on Dec 18, 2006 1:33:45 GMT -5
Wow. I never knew about Saint Paul's burial location. Thanks Skilly.
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Post by cigarviper on Dec 18, 2006 1:44:58 GMT -5
It is rumoured that Jesus played center and QB'ed the PP. No stats exist but his playmaking ability is legendary.
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Post by Skilly on Dec 18, 2006 7:44:00 GMT -5
Wow. I never knew about Saint Paul's burial location. Thanks Skilly. I am more interested in where was his body from the time he was beheaded to 390AD? St. Paul was one of Jesus' apostles. Jesus was crucified in circa 25-30AD at the age of 33-34. St. Paul would have been roughly the same age give or take a decade. So if he was beheaded because of the persecution of early christians, and this coffin (8 feet long?? Maybe Naismith didnt invent basketball, maybe the apostles did ) is dated at 390AD .... well where was his body for 350 years? If the Vatican held it until a coffin befitting a saint could be made/bought/designed .... well there would have to be some record right? Arguements around the Vatican and its secrecy always boils down to one thing for me ... open up the libraries and the documents and let everyone know what they know/have recorded.
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Post by franko on Dec 18, 2006 9:44:46 GMT -5
It is rumoured that Jesus played center and QB'ed the PP. No stats exist but his playmaking ability is legendary. Stealing a pic from the past . . .
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Post by duster on Dec 18, 2006 11:26:45 GMT -5
Wow. I never knew about Saint Paul's burial location. Thanks Skilly. I am more interested in where was his body from the time he was beheaded to 390AD? St. Paul was one of Jesus' apostles. Jesus was crucified in circa 25-30AD at the age of 33-34. St. Paul would have been roughly the same age give or take a decade. So if he was beheaded because of the persecution of early christians, and this coffin (8 feet long?? Maybe Naismith didnt invent basketball, maybe the apostles did ) is dated at 390AD .... well where was his body for 350 years? If the Vatican held it until a coffin befitting a saint could be made/bought/designed .... well there would have to be some record right? Arguements around the Vatican and its secrecy always boils down to one thing for me ... open up the libraries and the documents and let everyone know what they know/have recorded. Not to be overly cynical, but don't discount the politics of the era. Theodosius was emperor at the time and, like Constantine 80 years earlier, was an astute politician when it came to religion. Particularly since the Imperial Purple was being contested at the time by Eugenius and Magnus Maximus - both pagan. A "rediscovery" of Paul and his subsequent reburial in Rome could have been a public relations move much like Constantine's "rediscovery" of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem. Paul, as a Roman citizen in the First Century A.D., would likely have been cremated.
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Post by CentreHice on Dec 18, 2006 11:41:06 GMT -5
Wow. I never knew about Saint Paul's burial location. Thanks Skilly. I am more interested in where was his body from the time he was beheaded to 390AD? St. Paul was one of Jesus' apostles. Jesus was crucified in circa 25-30AD at the age of 33-34. St. Paul would have been roughly the same age give or take a decade. So if he was beheaded because of the persecution of early christians, and this coffin (8 feet long?? Maybe Naismith didnt invent basketball, maybe the apostles did ) is dated at 390AD .... well where was his body for 350 years? If the Vatican held it until a coffin befitting a saint could be made/bought/designed .... well there would have to be some record right? Arguements around the Vatican and its secrecy always boils down to one thing for me ... open up the libraries and the documents and let everyone know what they know/have recorded. Paul was an apostle but not one of the original disciples that travelled with Jesus. He never met Jesus in life. Paul (Saul) was (according to the Bible) a persecutor of the church...but was converted when he was knocked to the ground by a bolt of lightning on the road to Damascus. (Acts 9:5)....taken as a revelation from the resurrected Christ. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_of_TarsusHe was beheaded circa. AD 65.....so, yeah....where was the body for the interim?
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Post by duster on Dec 18, 2006 12:12:13 GMT -5
I'm guessing even the Vatican doesn't know, and as with other finds, are being very careful lest they find a surprise of their own or create too much expectations. It could explain their initial reluctance to excavate. No disrespect intended, but I wouldn't surprised if there is indeed a body, just not Paul's.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Dec 18, 2006 12:56:21 GMT -5
Just as an aside. When I was with the UN in Golan Heights we had an opportunity to visit quite a few spots in the Holy Land. We went all over Jerusalem, Bethlehem and had weekly visits from the priest in Nazareth. We visited the Church of Nativity, the Church of the Beattitudes, the Church of Peter (on Lake Tiberius), the 12 Stations of Christ and his acknowledged birthplace and Calvary.
One other place that remains with me is the Tomb of John the Baptist in Damascus (I guess only his head therein; not sure though). If women wanted to visit the tomb they had to surrender their purses and don berkas. Just the rules. I don't know why it was located in Damascus but the Mulsims have great respect for the place nonetheless.
It wasn't as volatile back then as it is now. If you have the chance and things tone down a bit you might want to. There's a lot of history in the area. Too much to account for in one post.
As for Paul's tomb, I'm hoping they find some other artifacts buried with him that will tell us more of the time.
Cheers.
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Post by Skilly on Dec 18, 2006 14:05:04 GMT -5
I'm guessing even the Vatican doesn't know, and as with other finds, are being very careful lest they find a surprise of their own or create too much expectations. It could explain their initial reluctance to excavate. No disrespect intended, but I wouldn't surprised if there is indeed a body, just not Paul's. If I am not mistaken there is an inscription on the floor above the tomb in Latin ... "Here lies Paul ..... " Not sure what the actual inscription is, just thought I read it somewhere.
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Post by Skilly on Dec 18, 2006 14:08:06 GMT -5
I am more interested in where was his body from the time he was beheaded to 390AD? St. Paul was one of Jesus' apostles. Jesus was crucified in circa 25-30AD at the age of 33-34. St. Paul would have been roughly the same age give or take a decade. So if he was beheaded because of the persecution of early christians, and this coffin (8 feet long?? Maybe Naismith didnt invent basketball, maybe the apostles did ) is dated at 390AD .... well where was his body for 350 years? If the Vatican held it until a coffin befitting a saint could be made/bought/designed .... well there would have to be some record right? Arguements around the Vatican and its secrecy always boils down to one thing for me ... open up the libraries and the documents and let everyone know what they know/have recorded. Paul was an apostle but not one of the original disciples that travelled with Jesus. He never met Jesus in life. Paul (Saul) was (according to the Bible) a persecutor of the church...but was converted when he was knocked to the ground by a bolt of lightning on the road to Damascus. (Acts 9:5)....taken as a revelation from the resurrected Christ. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_of_TarsusHe was beheaded circa. AD 65.....so, yeah....where was the body for the interim? Ahh yes ... Paul/Saul ... multiple names back then are so confusing. Even the four Gospels can't agree on the names of the apostles. Paul was suppose to take the place of Judas Iscariot I believe as the twelfth apostle, ..... well unless you subscribe to the theory that Matthias was the chosen one.
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Post by franko on Dec 18, 2006 14:42:41 GMT -5
Paul was an apostle but not one of the original disciples that travelled with Jesus. He never met Jesus in life. Paul (Saul) was (according to the Bible) a persecutor of the church...but was converted when he was knocked to the ground by a bolt of lightning on the road to Damascus. (Acts 9:5)....taken as a revelation from the resurrected Christ. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_of_TarsusHe was beheaded circa. AD 65.....so, yeah....where was the body for the interim? Ahh yes ... Paul/Saul ... multiple names back then are so confusing. Even the four Gospels can't agree on the names of the apostles. Paul was suppose to take the place of Judas Iscariot I believe as the twelfth apostle, ..... well unless you subscribe to the theory that Matthias was the chosen one. Quite the theory, actually: Biblical Alert: the vote to replace Judas is found in Acts 1; Saul comes into the picture in Acts 7. And he wasn't trusted for a while after that, either.
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Post by duster on Dec 18, 2006 14:47:28 GMT -5
I'm guessing even the Vatican doesn't know, and as with other finds, are being very careful lest they find a surprise of their own or create too much expectations. It could explain their initial reluctance to excavate. No disrespect intended, but I wouldn't surprised if there is indeed a body, just not Paul's. If I am not mistaken there is an inscription on the floor above the tomb in Latin ... "Here lies Paul ..... " Not sure what the actual inscription is, just thought I read it somewhere. Yes there is. It was added in the early 19th Century. There are numerous examples dating from antiquity onwards where mistakes were made in identifying the occupant(s) of a given tomb. In some cases, like the Medici most recently, it's a family member and not the actual individual, for example.
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Post by franko on Dec 18, 2006 14:48:45 GMT -5
Just as an aside. When I was with the UN in Golan Heights we had an opportunity to visit quite a few spots in the Holy Land. We went all over Jerusalem, Bethlehem and had weekly visits from the priest in Nazareth. We visited the Church of Nativity, the Church of the Beattitudes, the Church of Peter (on Lake Tiberius), the 12 Stations of Christ and his acknowledged birthplace and Calvary. One other place that remains with me is the Tomb of John the Baptist in Damascus (I guess only his head therein; not sure though). If women wanted to visit the tomb they had to surrender their purses and don berkas. Just the rules. I don't know why it was located in Damascus but the Mulsims have great respect for the place nonetheless. It wasn't as volatile back then as it is now. If you have the chance and things tone down a bit you might want to. There's a lot of history in the area. Too much to account for in one post. As for Paul's tomb, I'm hoping they find some other artifacts buried with him that will tell us more of the time. Cheers. Just a little bit of jealosy (a very holy and godly jealosy, of course ;D). Closest I've come to such sites is Saint Paul's Bay on Rhodes. What an island -- went the end of October (after most of the tourists had left); 26 o every day (warmer than normal); relaxed and friendly people . . . the only problem was that they kept kicking me off the topless beaches because I was so white I blinded everybody else!
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Post by CentreHice on Dec 18, 2006 16:52:46 GMT -5
I'm guessing even the Vatican doesn't know, and as with other finds, are being very careful lest they find a surprise of their own or create too much expectations. It could explain their initial reluctance to excavate. No disrespect intended, but I wouldn't surprised if there is indeed a body, just not Paul's. If I am not mistaken there is an inscription on the floor above the tomb in Latin ... "Here lies Paul ..... " Not sure what the actual inscription is, just thought I read it somewhere. No, that's on the cover of Sgt. Pepper's.
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Post by duster on Dec 18, 2006 20:40:00 GMT -5
Odobenus rosmarus est Paulus.
One of the secrets in the Vatican library no doubt... ;D
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Post by Skilly on Dec 18, 2006 21:18:48 GMT -5
Ahh yes ... Paul/Saul ... multiple names back then are so confusing. Even the four Gospels can't agree on the names of the apostles. Paul was suppose to take the place of Judas Iscariot I believe as the twelfth apostle, ..... well unless you subscribe to the theory that Matthias was the chosen one. Quite the theory, actually: Biblical Alert: the vote to replace Judas is found in Acts 1; Saul comes into the picture in Acts 7. And he wasn't trusted for a while after that, either. I am no biblical scholar ... used to be pretty good at it .... but I can google. One website ... probably not a good one (I don't know that) .... suggests that the 12 apostles were: The original twelve disciples / apostles are listed in Matthew 10:2-4, "These are the names of the twelve apostles: first, Simon (who is called Peter) and his brother Andrew; James son of Zebedee, and his brother John; Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus; Simon the Zealot and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed Him." The Bible also lists the 12 disciples / apostles in Mark 3:16-19 and Luke 6:13-16. In comparing the three passages, there are a couple of minor differences in the names. It seems that Thaddaeus was also know as "Judas, son of James" (Luke 6:16) and Lebbaeus (Matthew 10:3). Simon the Zealot was also known as Simon the Canaanite (Mark 3:18). Judas Iscariot, who betrayed Jesus, was replaced in the twelve apostles by Matthias (see Acts 1:20-26). Some Bible teachers view Matthias as an "invalid" member of the 12 apostles, and instead believe that the Apostle Paul was God's choice to replace Judas Iscariot as the twelfth apostle.www.gotquestions.org/twelve-apostles-disciples-12.html
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Post by Toronthab on Dec 18, 2006 21:35:21 GMT -5
Wow. I never knew about Saint Paul's burial location. Thanks Skilly. I am more interested in where was his body from the time he was beheaded to 390AD? St. Paul was one of Jesus' apostles. Jesus was crucified in circa 25-30AD at the age of 33-34. St. Paul would have been roughly the same age give or take a decade. So if he was beheaded because of the persecution of early christians, and this coffin (8 feet long?? Maybe Naismith didnt invent basketball, maybe the apostles did ) is dated at 390AD .... well where was his body for 350 years? If the Vatican held it until a coffin befitting a saint could be made/bought/designed .... well there would have to be some record right? Arguements around the Vatican and its secrecy always boils down to one thing for me ... open up the libraries and the documents and let everyone know what they know/have recorded. Gheez guys. 'Secret ' does not mean what the word 'secret' means in English. Sorry to prick the dramatic air of conspiracy and skullduggery, a la Da Vinci crap, of the infamed popular imagination, but the Vatican is very forthcoming with her records. There is an actual door with the word 'secret' marked on it. It's no secret. It just means put away, as opposed to on display. Those responsible for the incredible documents of the most enduring institution in all of history, though I don't know the specifics of their mandate are pretty darned reasonable from the shroud of Turin, to the actual procedural records of the Spanish Inquisition. Scholars are given their due, and access, but they aren't likely to be spread out willy-nilly without a lot of respect and thought for their value and meaning. An afterthought. Given that a book as completley false and counter to actual historical and modern records and documents (like fraud trials and confessions of fabrication) can be gobbled up as 'factual', it probably makes no difference at all for the average person what is displayed. One of the persons who works at the Vatican museum and who helped in accessing documents lamented, that almost nobody (and certainly not the Dan Browns of this world) spend any serious time in serious research.
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Post by Skilly on Dec 18, 2006 22:20:26 GMT -5
I am more interested in where was his body from the time he was beheaded to 390AD? St. Paul was one of Jesus' apostles. Jesus was crucified in circa 25-30AD at the age of 33-34. St. Paul would have been roughly the same age give or take a decade. So if he was beheaded because of the persecution of early christians, and this coffin (8 feet long?? Maybe Naismith didnt invent basketball, maybe the apostles did ) is dated at 390AD .... well where was his body for 350 years? If the Vatican held it until a coffin befitting a saint could be made/bought/designed .... well there would have to be some record right? Arguements around the Vatican and its secrecy always boils down to one thing for me ... open up the libraries and the documents and let everyone know what they know/have recorded. Gheez guys. 'Secret ' does not mean what the word 'secret' means in English. Sorry to prick the dramatic air of conspiracy and skullduggery, a la Da Vinci crap, of the infamed popular imagination, but the Vatican is very forthcoming with her records. There is an actual door with the word 'secret' marked on it. It's no secret. It just means put away, as opposed to on display. Those responsible for the incredible documents of the most enduring institution in all of history, though I don't know the specifics of their mandate are pretty darned reasonable from the shroud of Turin, to the actual procedural records of the Spanish Inquisition. Scholars are given their due, and access, but they aren't likely to be spread out willy-nilly without a lot of respect and thought for their value and meaning. An afterthought. Given that a book as completley false and counter to actual historical and modern records and documents (like fraud trials and confessions of fabrication) can be gobbled up as 'factual', it probably makes no difference at all for the average person what is displayed. One of the persons who works at the Vatican museum and who helped in accessing documents lamented, that almost nobody (and certainly not the Dan Browns of this world) spend any serious time in serious research. I dont blindly believe the church ... and I do not think she is infallible. I was brought up to question things .... things like a mans head in one tomb, but his body in another that is dated 350 years after his death. Things like prove a great flood occured? Did Moses exist? ... things the church tell us are fact (or did). If the church centered on faith and strength I could be convinced to return to the church, but asking me to blindly accept the Bible as fact .... nuh-uh. I am not subcribing to a Da Vinci conspiracy theory ... I am saying that we are basing history on a book that is ambiguous and its "facts" (whether it be old or new testament) are sometimes lacking. It is heathy to question and not just "lemming" one's way around.
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Post by Toronthab on Dec 18, 2006 22:38:59 GMT -5
This from the Catholic Encylppaedia, dealing with inscriptions from the catacombs.
Ther is a reference to Saints Peter and Paul further down
HISTORICAL AND THEOLOGICAL INSCRIPTIONS
To many of the early Christian sepulchral inscriptions we are indebted for much information concerning the original development of the ecclesiastical hierarchy, besides which they are of great value as a confirmation of Catholic truths. Thus, for example, from the earliest times we meet in them all the hierarchical grades from the door-keeper (ostiarius) and lector up to the pope (see ORDERS, HOLY).
A number of epitaphs of the early popes (Pontianus, Anterus, Fabianus, Cornelius, Lucius, Eutychianus, Caius) were found in the so-called "Papal Crypt" in the Catacomb of St. Callistus on the Via Appia, rediscovered by De Rossi and well known to every pilgrim to Rome (see CEMETERY, sub-title Early Roman Christian Cemeteries).
Numbers of early epitaphs of bishops have been found from Germany to Nubia. Priests are frequently mentioned, and reference is often made to deacons, subdeacons, exorcists, lectors, acolytes, fossores or grave-diggers, alumni or adopted children.
The Greek inscriptions of Western Europe and the East yield especially interesting material; in them is found, in addition to other information, mention of archdeacons, archpriests, deaconesses, and monks. Besides catechumens and neophytes, reference is also made to virgins consecrated to God, nuns, abbesses, holy widows, one of the last-named being the mother of Pope St. Damasus I (q. v.), the celebrated restorer of the catacombs.
Epitaphs of martyrs and tituli mentioning the martyrs are not found as frequently as one would expect, especially in the Roman catacombs.
This, however, is easily explained by recalling the circumstances of burial in the periods of persecution, when Christians must have been contented to save and to give even secret burial to the remains of their martyrs.
Many a nameless grave among the five million estimated to exist in the Roman catacombs held the remains of early Christians who witnessed to the Faith with their blood.
Another valuable repertory of Catholic theology is found in the dogmatic inscriptions in which all important dogmas of the Church meet (incidentally) with monumental confirmation.
The monotheism of the worshippers of the Word — or Cultores Verbi, as the early Christians loved to style themselves — and their belief in Christ are well expressed even in the early inscriptions. Very ancient inscriptions emphasize, and with detail the most profound of Catholic dogmas, the Real Presence of Christ in the Holy Eucharist.
In this connexion we may mention the epitaph of Abercius (q. v.), Bishop of Hieropolis in Phrygia (second century), and the somewhat later epitaph of Pectorius (q. v.) at Autun in Gaul. The inscription of Abercius speaks of the fish (Christ) caught by a holy virgin, which serves as food under the species of bread and wine; it speaks, further, of Rome, where Abercius visited the chosen people, the Church par excellence. This important inscription aroused at first no little controversy among scholars, and some non-Catholic archæologists sought to find in it a tendency to pagan syncretism. Now, however, its purely Christian character is almost universally acknowledged. The original was presented by Sultan Abdul Hamid to Leo XIII, and is preserved in the Apostolic Museum at the Lateran.
Early Christian inscriptions confirm the Catholic doctrine of the Resurrection, the sacraments, the veneration of the Blessed Virgin, and the primacy of the Apostolic See. It would be difficult to over-estimate the importance of these evidences, for they are always entirely incidental elements of the sepulchral inscriptions, all of which were pre-eminently eschatological in their purpose.
POETICAL AND OFFICIAL INSCRIPTIONS
While the copious material obtained from the early Christian epitaphs, especially the inscriptions of the Roman (Latin) and the Greek-Oriental groups, is equivalent to a book in stone on the faith and life of our Christian forefathers, the purely literary side of these monuments is not insignificant.
Many inscriptions have the character of public documents; others are in verse, either taken from well-known poets, or at times the work of the person erecting the memorial. Fragments of classical poetry, especially quotations from Virgil, are occasionally found. The most famous composer of poetical epitaphs in Christian antiquity was Pope Damasus I (366-384), mentioned above.
He repaired the neglected tombs of the martyrs and the graves of distinguished persons who had lived before the Constantinian epoch, and adorned these burial places with metrical epitaphs in a peculiarly beautiful lettering. Nearly all the larger cemeteries of Rome owe to this pope large stone tablets of this character, several of which have been preserved in their original form or in fragments.
Besides verses on his mother Laurentia and his sister Irene, he wrote an autobiographical poem in which the Saviour is addressed: "Thou Who stillest the waves of the deep, Whose power giveth life to the seed slumbering in the earth, who didst awaken Lazarus from the dead and give back the brother on the third day to the sister Martha; Thou wilt, so I believe, awake Damasus from death."Eulogies in honour of the Roman martyrs form the most important division of the Damasine inscriptions. They are written in hexameters, a few in pentameters.
The best known celebrate the temporary burial of the two chief Apostles in the Platonia under the basilica of St. Sebastian on the Via Appia, the martyrs Protus and Hyacinth in the Via Salaria Antiqua, Pope Marcellus in the Via Salaria Nova, St. Agnes in the Via Nomentana, also Saints Laurence, Hippolytus, Gorgonius, Peter and Marcellinus, Eusebius, Tarsicius, Cornelius, Eutychius, Nereus and Achilleus, Felix and Adauctus. Damasus also placed a metrical inscription in the baptistery of the Vatican, and set up others in connexion with various restorations,
e. g. an inscription on a stairway of the cemetery of St. Hermes. Altogether there have been preserved as the work of Damasus more than one hundred epigrammata, some of them originals and others written copies. More than one half are probably correctly ascribed to him, even though it is necessary to remember that after his death Damasine inscriptions continued to be set up, i. e. inscriptions in the beautiful lettering invented by Damasus or rather by his calligrapher Furius Dionysius Filocalus. Some of the inscriptions, which imitate the lettering of Filocalus, make special and laudatory mention of the pope who had done so much for the catacombs. Among these are the inscriptions of Pope Vigilius (537-55), a restorer animated by the spirit of Damasus. Some of his inscriptions are preserved in the Lateran Museum. The inscriptions just mentioned possess as a rule a public and official character. Other inscriptions served as official records of the erection of Christian edifices (churches, baptisteries, etc.). Ancient Roman examples of this kind are the inscribed tablet dedicated by Boniface I at the beginning of the fifth century to St. Felicitas, to whom the pope ascribed the settlement of the schism of Eulalius, and the inscription (still visible) of Pope Pope Sixtus III in the Lateran baptistery, etc. The Roman custom was soon copied in all parts of the empire. At Thebessa in Northern Africa there were found fragments of a metrical inscription once set up over a door, and in almost exact verbal agreement with the text of an inscription in a Roman church. Both the basilica of Nola and the church at Primuliacum in Gaul bore the same distich:
Pax tibi sit quicunque Dei penetralia Christi, pectore pacifico candidus ingrederis.
(Peace be to thee whoever enterest with pure and gentle heart into the sanctuary of Christ God.) In such inscriptions the church building is generally referred to as domus Dei, domus orationis (the house of God, the house of prayer).
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Post by Toronthab on Dec 19, 2006 19:36:17 GMT -5
Gheez guys. 'Secret ' does not mean what the word 'secret' means in English. Sorry to prick the dramatic air of conspiracy and skullduggery, a la Da Vinci crap, of the infamed popular imagination, but the Vatican is very forthcoming with her records. There is an actual door with the word 'secret' marked on it. It's no secret. It just means put away, as opposed to on display. Those responsible for the incredible documents of the most enduring institution in all of history, though I don't know the specifics of their mandate are pretty darned reasonable from the shroud of Turin, to the actual procedural records of the Spanish Inquisition. Scholars are given their due, and access, but they aren't likely to be spread out willy-nilly without a lot of respect and thought for their value and meaning. An afterthought. Given that a book as completley false and counter to actual historical and modern records and documents (like fraud trials and confessions of fabrication) can be gobbled up as 'factual', it probably makes no difference at all for the average person what is displayed. One of the persons who works at the Vatican museum and who helped in accessing documents lamented, that almost nobody (and certainly not the Dan Browns of this world) spend any serious time in serious research. I dont blindly believe the church ... and I do not think she is infallible. I was brought up to question things .... things like a mans head in one tomb, but his body in another that is dated 350 years after his death. Things like prove a great flood occured? Did Moses exist? ... things the church tell us are fact (or did). If the church centered on faith and strength I could be convinced to return to the church, but asking me to blindly accept the Bible as fact .... nuh-uh. I am not subcribing to a Da Vinci conspiracy theory ... I am saying that we are basing history on a book that is ambiguous and its "facts" (whether it be old or new testament) are sometimes lacking. It is heathy to question and not just "lemming" one's way around. Who blindly believes the church? Unless a St Paul on the road to Damascus, you'd have to be a nut to just buy in holus bolus, without a most rigorous examination of every single darned thing. Was Jesus a jewish nutbar? Did the apostles know dead when they saw it? Did they actually spend some 40 days with Christ after he was killed? Should a sane person bet their life on such stuff? Were the apostles crtedible witnesses, or religious fanatics? Has science done away with the old superstitious idea of God, or can God's existence be proven beyond a reasonable doubt as Peter Kreeft or DR Anthony Ricci (and a great many others including myself maintain to be a fact? Do Cathollics hate homosexually attracted people and protestants? (In reverse order; that was a joke, Franko). ) Is the male only priesthood out of touch chauvinism, or is the western idea of God, not limited to the material explanations of pantheism which is earthy, relatonal and , but an active theism that really does transcend the relational and nurturing, is lawgiver and comes from the outside, in short, more masculine, relating as Jesus told those who would listen to him as being "like a father", and has a very sound theological and philosophical foundation. There is what is known as "negative" theological argument for priestesses(e.g there is no male or female in Christ, master or slave etc.) but there is no positive theological argument for this to be found in the record of Christianity. I spent literally housands of hours looking into, considering, turning over and studying things and still do (I love it), and I am utterly convinced that her teaching and sacraments and lived life in history all testify to the truth of her claims, which are total, as they should be, but you'd be nuts not to investigate her claims and nuts to just "blindly" accept them. I think that given the claims and promises of Christ to guide the church to all truth, that if she were not infallible (properly understood) as relates to matters of faith, and moral teaching, then Christ could not have been divine, and we can all go back to playing cards. For the doctrine of infallibility rests not on fallible human beings, including the pope who can theoretically be dull-eiited crazy or like Alexander VI, corrupt, and the period following the black death that saw a huge segment of the priesthood die in delivering the last rites to plague vicims really weakened the church's character. I find the church to be the most astounding and astonishing reality in the known universe as indeed she should be if she is particularly the body of the Son of God. And best of all, she'll even welcome turkeys like me.
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