At 10:00 pm Saddam Hussein hangs

[Tankdriver]

Well looks like tonight is the end

news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061230/ap_on_re_mi_ea/saddam_18

I don't want to get into the is it right or not right to hang a person debate but tongiht he is sentenced to die. What do you think the implications from this execution will arise. My guess is a surgence of attacks in Iraq that will leave people second guessing this execution.

Your thoughts?

[franko]

Or saying the "first guess" was right. What a bonehead thing to do. Mr. Bush: you were wrong -- you haven't made any friends.

[princelh]

Just desert! He deserved what he got. Now they need to get that midget in Iran and give him the guillotine.

[Cranky]

Good riddence. But....

...no matter what happens, somewhere in the Arab world, Saffam is going to come out as a hero and America as murderers.

[princelh]

The United States government are complicit in what Sadam had done to his people. I guess the Bush family has won this round in their personal battle with the Hussein family.

[MC Habber]

He got off way too easy IMO. Someone on tv said "the nightmare is finally over." Yeah, Saddam's nightmare is over, but the collective nightmare of the Iraqi people continues.

[franko]

machabby said:

He got off way too easy IMO. Someone on tv said "the nightmare is finally over." Yeah, Saddam's nightmare is over, but the collective nightmare of the Iraqi people continues.

But that nightmare has been compounded by the invasion and the destruction of the Iraqi nation.

Please don't get me wrong -- Hussein was a tyrant. But his iron fist leadership gave stability to the country. Now the invading forces are stuck there for a few more years (the US can't now say "Saddam's gone and so are we); and as soon as the invaders are gone civil war will break out.

It amazes me that sometimes the US leadership can't see the obvious effects of their interference.

Oh, and let the conspiracy theorists begin: Saddam is somewhere in the [States, Middle East, Russia] enjoying life as a [pampered dignitary, chef, common labourer] away from the spotlight eyes of anyone who cares.

[Toronthab]

An indefensible death penalty adds to the sum total of voluntarily chosen evils in the world and affirms that unjustifiable homicides (he was in prison and presenting no threat) are a good way for human beings to carry out their affairs.

The effect of evil, is always evil. More will follow.

[Tankdriver]

I don't think he is hiding. They showed the execution on Iraqi televison.
I thought the half brothers/sons? were supposed to die as well. This can go down to ways. One: years of conflict or two: a slow rebuilding process. This is looking more and more like Bosnia everyday where the people (ethnic groups; sunni, shiites, kurds)are going to have to move to certain regions to have peace.

franko said:

machabby said:

He got off way too easy IMO. Someone on tv said "the nightmare is finally over." Yeah, Saddam's nightmare is over, but the collective nightmare of the Iraqi people continues.

But that nightmare has been compounded by the invasion and the destruction of the Iraqi nation.

Please don't get me wrong -- Hussein was a tyrant. But his iron fist leadership gave stability to the country. Now the invading forces are stuck there for a few more years (the US can't now say "Saddam's gone and so are we); and as soon as the invaders are gone civil war will break out.

It amazes me that sometimes the US leadership can't see the obvious effects of their interference.

Oh, and let the conspiracy theorists begin: Saddam is somewhere in the [States, Middle East, Russia] enjoying life as a [pampered dignitary, chef, common labourer] away from the spotlight eyes of anyone who cares.

[Disgruntled70sHab]

I'm hoping this doesn't justify the war Bush's eyes. And if hanging a mass murderer is the premise of this war then he's is not finished.

Someone already mentioned Iran's president. Well, what about China's head of government, or Syria, or Saudi Arabia or ?

BTW, hanging Saddam will not bring democracy to Iraq. That process will take a lot longer than what anyone in the Bush administration cares to admit. It's a centuries-old autocratic society and that won't change overnight.

Wonder if the Democrats will see it through? Don't have a crystal ball but me thinks no.

Cheers.

[Skilly]

Didn't Saddam have a look-a-like? Wouldn't put it pass anyone to ... ohhh there I go again with conspiracy theories.

[duster]

disgruntled70shab said:

I'm hoping this doesn't justify the war Bush's eyes. And if hanging a mass murderer is the premise of this war then he's is not finished.

Someone already mentioned Iran's president. Well, what about China's head of government, or Syria, or Saudi Arabia or ?

BTW, hanging Saddam will not bring democracy to Iraq. That process will take a lot longer than what anyone in the Bush administration cares to admit. It's a centuries-old autocratic society and that won't change overnight.

Wonder if the Democrats will see it through? Don't have a crystal ball but me thinks no.

Cheers.

I agree Dis. Democracies evolve, as you pointed out. The one exception historically may have been Japan whose constitution was imposed. Even pre-War Imperial Japan had a parliament of sorts, as does Iran presently and so did Afghanistan prior to Soviet intervention.

That's the thing in my mind that is the most incredible about all of this. That Bush and company actually believe that they can enforce democracy on their terms to a region via military intervention is breathtakingly arrogant and downright stupid. Nothing in Iraq's past has indicated even the slightest interest in democracy and there are several very good reasons why the average Iraqi prefers an authoritarian regime. I'll give George Sr. credit for recognizing this 15 years ago.

The solution looks easy, still civil war is inevitable, imo. Hussein's execution is simply one more step towards that end, unfortunately.

[princelh]

Sometimes, civil war is inevitable. Even the U.S. had to have theirs, before peace was restored. It all comes down to which vision wins the day. If the U.S. can hold Iran, at bay, while the Iraqis settle their civil war, then peace might be achievable. To leave, allows the theologically driven Iranians to influence the direction of Iraq. Unfortuantely, our troops in Afghanistan, will have to hold the fort, on Iran's eastern front, to keep a counterbalance to the U.S. in Iraq.

[MC Habber]

Robert Fisk: A dictator created then destroyed by America

Published: 30 December 2006

Saddam to the gallows. It was an easy equation. Who could be more deserving of that last walk to the scaffold - that crack of the neck at the end of a rope - than the Beast of Baghdad, the Hitler of the Tigris, the man who murdered untold hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis while spraying chemical weapons over his enemies? Our masters will tell us in a few hours that it is a "great day" for Iraqis and will hope that the Muslim world will forget that his death sentence was signed - by the Iraqi "government", but on behalf of the Americans - on the very eve of the Eid al-Adha, the Feast of the Sacrifice, the moment of greatest forgiveness in the Arab world.

But history will record that the Arabs and other Muslims and, indeed, many millions in the West, will ask another question this weekend, a question that will not be posed in other Western newspapers because it is not the narrative laid down for us by our presidents and prime ministers - what about the other guilty men?

No, Tony Blair is not Saddam. We don't gas our enemies. George W Bush is not Saddam. He didn't invade Iran or Kuwait. He only invaded Iraq. But hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians are dead - and thousands of Western troops are dead - because Messrs Bush and Blair and the Spanish Prime Minister and the Italian Prime Minister and the Australian Prime Minister went to war in 2003 on a potage of lies and mendacity and, given the weapons we used, with great brutality.

In the aftermath of the international crimes against humanity of 2001 we have tortured, we have murdered, we have brutalised and killed the innocent - we have even added our shame at Abu Ghraib to Saddam's shame at Abu Ghraib - and yet we are supposed to forget these terrible crimes as we applaud the swinging corpse of the dictator we created.

Who encouraged Saddam to invade Iran in 1980, which was the greatest war crime he has committed for it led to the deaths of a million and a half souls? And who sold him the components for the chemical weapons with which he drenched Iran and the Kurds? We did. No wonder the Americans, who controlled Saddam's weird trial, forbad any mention of this, his most obscene atrocity....

[Habs_fan_in_LA]

duster said:

disgruntled70shab said:

I'm hoping this doesn't justify the war Bush's eyes. And if hanging a mass murderer is the premise of this war then he's is not finished.

Someone already mentioned Iran's president. Well, what about China's head of government, or Syria, or Saudi Arabia or ?

BTW, hanging Saddam will not bring democracy to Iraq. That process will take a lot longer than what anyone in the Bush administration cares to admit. It's a centuries-old autocratic society and that won't change overnight.

Wonder if the Democrats will see it through? Don't have a crystal ball but me thinks no.

Cheers.

I agree Dis. Democracies evolve, as you pointed out. The one exception historically may have been Japan whose constitution was imposed. Even pre-War Imperial Japan had a parliament of sorts, as does Iran presently and so did Afghanistan prior to Soviet intervention.

That's the thing in my mind that is the most incredible about all of this. That Bush and company actually believe that they can enforce democracy on their terms to a region via military intervention is breathtakingly arrogant and downright stupid. Nothing in Iraq's past has indicated even the slightest interest in democracy and there are several very good reasons why the average Iraqi prefers an authoritarian regime. I'll give George Sr. credit for recognizing this 15 years ago.

The solution looks easy, still civil war is inevitable, imo. Hussein's execution is simply one more step towards that end, unfortunately.

If Iraq played their cards right, fifty years from now, Iraq Motors will pass Toyota as the #1 automobile manufacturer. The Iraqis don't have the work ethic the japanese did.

[Disgruntled70sHab]

Iraqi officials were concerned that Saddam's execution had been infiltrated. Their concerns were well founded. I just saw the cell phone video of it on Yahoo.

I don't support the death penalty for several reasons. However, I can't help but think the world won't be missing a guy like this. I know the Shiite won't. And it might be reasonable to suggest the Sunni will use this as an excuse to do whatever they want to whomever they want.

However, my questions are now, who's next and on what criteria?

Cheers.

[BadCompany]

If you were to pick somebody deserving of the gallows, Saddam Hussein would undoubtedly be at the top of list.

However...

Was I the only one who found the whole thing rather disturbing? Hooded men wearing civilian clothes, shouting and taunting, dimly lit room, cheap looking wood... It looked rather, well, Al Quaedish, don't you think? Reminded me of some of Al Zarqawi's finer work. The only thing that was missing was the speech/rant placing all blame on the West.

At any rate, the pragmaticist (cynic?) in me suspects this will be yet another sore mark for American - Islamic relations. 5-10 years from now nobody will remember just how brutal a man Hussein was, they'll simply remember that an Islamic leader, holding on to a copy of the Koran and saying an Islamic prayer no less, was executed by the Americans. And make no mistake, everybody will think it's the Americans who did it.

Somehow, I doubt this made the West any safer.

[Disgruntled70sHab]

badcompany said:

If you were to pick somebody deserving of the gallows, Saddam Hussein would undoubtedly be at the top of list.

However...

Was I the only one who found the whole thing rather disturbing? Hooded men wearing civilian clothes, shouting and taunting, dimly lit room, cheap looking wood... It looked rather, well, Al Quaedish, don't you think? Reminded me of some of Al Zarqawi's finer work. The only thing that was missing was the speech/rant placing all blame on the West.

Interesting observation BC. One of the official statements released was a testimonial given by one of those observers. He said Hussein was treated with dignity and respect throughout the process.

Yet, the cell phone video I saw was almost medieval in a way. The executioners were indeed masked and there was taunting and shouting. You have to wonder under what criteria observers were selected.

At any rate, the pragmaticist (cynic?) in me suspects this will be yet another sore mark for American - Islamic relations. 5-10 years from now nobody will remember just how brutal a man Hussein was, they'll simply remember that an Islamic leader, holding on to a copy of the Koran and saying an Islamic prayer no less, was executed by the Americans. And make no mistake, everybody will think it's the Americans who did it.

They did do it ... there's no mistake that this is what militants will remember. The Coalition of the Just is secondary, almost an afterthought. However, it won't take long for these extremists to publicly identify the Western countries responsible for this. It will happen soon enough. No doubt a statement will be issued by those who find it convenient in acknowledging Hussein as a martyr.

Somehow, I doubt this made the West any safer.

Mrs Dis and I were talking about this earlier today. We wonder what our son and his kids will have to deal with.

[Disgruntled70sHab]

Shaking my head when I heard what the mob was actually saying.

EDITORIAL: Saddam's hanging a circus show

Saddam Hussein deserved his execution.

The world did not deserve to see his hanging which was handled appallingly by a crew of clowns in a halfbaked carnival atmosphere.

In fact, it baffles the mind how something so important, so obviously explosive, could be left in the hands of men not worthy of organizing a sock drawer.

But it is indicative of everything that has gone wrong in the U.S. mission in Iraq. No forethought, no plan, no anticipation of possible reaction or consequence.

If you missed it -- or if no one sent you the YouTube link seen by hundreds of thousands already -- the full video of the Iraqi dictator's death drop is available online thanks to a witness with a video cellphone capturing all the dramatic moments from inside the hangman's room.

Although the video is shaky, it has already enraged Sunnis across Iraq, sparking riots and no doubt more militancy in the violent region.

The video shows guards yelling "Go to hell" and other insults, and taunting the Butcher of Baghdad. Other observers chant "Muqtada, Muqtada, Muqtada!" for Shiite militia leader Muqtada al-Sadr. In response, Hussein is said to be the one that's dignified, replying: "Is this what you call manhood?" Then the floor drops from under Saddam Hussein -- apparently while he's saying his prayers.

Now, we know the American position that Iraqis have to move toward self-government, but someone had to know the hanging of Saddam Hussein shouldn't be trifled with. Killing the killer needed to be handled in the most professional, structured and rehearsed way possible, not by an unruly mob of wild men taking part in amateur hour.

The U.S. forces who handled Saddam Hussein and took him to a secret location in the north of Baghdad for the execution were said to have screened the official delegation and stripped them of their cell phones before entering the death chamber. Nice job.

If this is an indication of the work under new U.S. Secretary of Defense Robert Gates, we have to question why Donald Rumsfeld ever got the axe. Already the U.S. casualties number more than 3,000 from this conflict. Allowing the inmates to run the execution will undoubtedly lead to more deaths in Iraq.

Iraqis deserved to see evidence the tyrant is dead. No one should have ever seen the entire circus.

www.torontosun.com/Comment/Commentary/2007/01/03/3153113.html

[Disgruntled70sHab]

This disturbs me. Not so much the execution but the botched attempt at it, the kangaroo court surrounding it and how it came about.

Hanging video shows severed head of Saddam aide
Updated Mon. Jan. 15 2007 9:23 AM ET

CTV.ca News Staff

An official video of the hanging of two of Saddam Hussein's aides Monday shows his half-brother lying headless after being accidentally decapitated during the drop.

The video, shown only to reporters, includes images of Barzan Ibrahim's severed head resting several metres from his body in a pool of blood.

The rest of the story.

This is totally medieval. Can't believe for a second that the coalition forces feel they are there to help.

There isn't a day go by where I don't appreciate what we have in Canada.

peace!

[Skilly]

I am reading a book now Dis entitled "10 steps to the Gallows". It is a book about hangings here in Newfoundland. (which was last done in 1922). It is written by Jack Fitzgerald.

Anyway in the book it describes how the rope is chosen. It cant be to thick or the person will strangle for 5 mins, it cant be too thin or it will snap. It also describes that the drop is typically 5 feet for persons under a specific weight (200lbs I believe), but for heavier men the drop is reduced to 3-4 feet. There is absolutely no excuse why a man should have his head severed in a hanging. It was obviously the result of too far a drop and on purpose.

[Disgruntled70sHab]

You might be right, skilly. For a society that's been practicing this form of execution for centuries it's unacceptable.

The man was the formal leader of the Iraqi secret service from what I understand. This botched hanging sounds more like revenge than justice.

Shaking my head.

[Habs_fan_in_LA]

I like Judge Abdul's impartiality.
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Judge Paula Abdul is much more impartial than Judge Simon Cowell or Judge Randy Jackson.