NFL vrs CFL

[franko]

Let's move the discussion, if I may be so bold as to suggest that we continue with it. Though I shouldn't even be sneaking a peak at the board.

CFL has some stupid rules/ideas (like the 1 point for failure -- sort of like the NHL shootout imo). But some good ideas as well (wider field, more action).

But I must go before I mfas;ldjfasld

[Habs_fan_in_LA]

franko said:

Let's move the discussion, if I may be so bold as to suggest that we continue with it. Though I shouldn't even be sneaking a peak at the board.

CFL has some stupid rules/ideas (like the 1 point for failure -- sort of like the NHL shootout imo). But some good ideas as well (wider field, more action).

But I must go before I mfas;ldjfasld

No real strong opinion here.
Both sides have good and bad.
If Toronthab likes the Argos and Skilly likes the Cowboys it's no skin off my chest.
The CFL is a budget constrained Canadian production. It is unifying with teams in small towns like Winnipeg, Regina and Hamilton.
THe NFL is gaudy American showmanship at it's best/worst. Bling, drugs, sex, egos. Pretty good football and shows.
They are not mutually exclusive and one is not better than the other. They are both football, but they are very different.
I honestly could not name a single 2006 Montreal Alouette. I can name most of the Alouettes and Eskimos from memory in the Chuck Hunsinger fumble days.

[Skilly]

Hate the CFL ... love the NFL.

Just seems like in the CFL there are way too many blown coverages and men get wide open. I know the sprint start has something to do with it, but you'd think that the defensive co-ordinators could figure that out. I just don't see the excitement ... I watch the last half of the Grey Cup and only if the Alouettes are in it.

[franko]

habsfaninla said:

Then I had a problem with a league that limits the number of Americans that can play instead of playing the best players. That would be like insisting that the Hab's dress 13 Quebecois or Toronto dressing 13 boring blokes or Phoenix dress 11 illegals and 2 Cowboys.

And I have a problem with a league (talking about the CFL) that limits Canadians from playing their own game. It does -- really (unless changes have been made that I don't know about). There is some strange rule that I've never been able to follow that limits Canadian QB's fromplaying -- some weird roster thing.

The limiting US players doesn't bother me too much -- the glory roles still go to Americans; the junk jobs to the Canadians. With limited salaries and limited positions -- and with a desire to give "our boys" a shot at semi-pro, its OK.

I like the bigger field, 12 men, smaller faster players, men in motion and no fair catch.

These, and a game that goes until the end. I hate how in the last minute of the NFL game players saunter up to the ball . . . and with 23 seconds left on the clock walk off. I like the stop clock in the last minute (couple of?) of CFL games -- and that teams are forced to keep playing, so there is hope during a close game.

I don't like 1 point for missed field goals.

Or long punts. Am unsure about the longer end zones (though it means that htere is more room to manuever.

The slick glitzy US game may not have better rules, but it is a better product. Tailgate parties, cheerleaders, packed stadiums, instant replay, production values.

You aren't talking about the games/product, you are talking about the gamesmanship/production/PR. Big difference.

[Disgruntled70sHab]

Two different games completely. Starting with the ball. I don't know if the Spalding J5V is still used in the CFL but it's a much harder ball to throw.

Case in point. Years ago the Ottawa Rough Riders had three rookie QB's in camp; Conridge Holloway (sp?), Tommy Clements and Billy Robinson. Robinson was a graduate of the Canadian Collegate system and of the three it was he who could throw the best ball.

The NFL ball is a lot sleeker and smaller in design. It's been a few years, but I remember it fitting in my hand a lot easier then its CFL counterpart, which made it easier to throw. Having said that, if you happen to be on the receiving end of a Brett Farve pass you'll think you've caught a bullet.

The fields are different. A lot know that the CFL field is wider and longer. The most common comment some import players make is how winded they are after a set of plays.

I guess the larger playing surface accommodates a different game too. The CFL game is much more of a passing game than the NFL. However, the 3-down system has something to do it as well.

Never understood how a penalty or safety could be awarded in the NFL for intentionally grounding the ball when all the QB has to do is walk up to the centre, get the ball and spike it into the ground.

One thing that keeps me watching NFL though, is the difference in intensity. Ex-CFLer/NFLer and former student of mine, Nigel Williams, once told me that there's no comparision. In the CFL you prepare for a game ... in the NFL you prepare for a war.

Keeps me tuning in.

Cheers.

[Skilly]

disgruntled70shab said:

Never understood how a penalty or safety could be awarded in the NFL for intentionally grounding the ball when all the QB has to do is walk up to the centre, get the ball and spike it into the ground.


Cheers.

Only in the last 2 minutes of the second quarter of fourth quarter. Anytime else it is intentional grounding. The CFL clock stops automatically, the NFL gives the team the option of wasting a down to stop the clock. (Turning most drives in the last 2 minutes into CFL 3 downs)

When the ball is snapped and the QB does not ground the ball (again in the last two minutes of the halves) ... then it is normal rules ...he has to get outside the tackles to throw it away, or have a receiver in the vicinity.

[Disgruntled70sHab]

skilly said:

disgruntled70shab said:

Never understood how a penalty or safety could be awarded in the NFL for intentionally grounding the ball when all the QB has to do is walk up to the centre, get the ball and spike it into the ground.


Cheers.

Only in the last 2 minutes of the second quarter of fourth quarter. Anytime else it is intentional grounding. The CFL clock stops automatically, the NFL gives the team the option of wasting a down to stop the clock. (Turning most drives in the last 2 minutes into CFL 3 downs)

When the ball is snapped and the QB does not ground the ball (again in the last two minutes of the halves) ... then it is normal rules ...he has to get outside the tackles to throw it away, or have a receiver in the vicinity.

Thanks Skilly. I remember now that grounding the ball had something to do with getting out of the pocket like you mentioned.

Cheers.

[franko]

The main difference between the CFL and the NFL: marketing. One has great marketing for a boring product (NFL); the other poor marketing for a more exciting product (CFL).

Oh, and the CFL doesn't usually have at least one playre killed every year.

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

franko said:

The main difference between the CFL and the NFL: marketing. One has great marketing for a boring product (NFL); the other poor marketing for a more exciting product (CFL).

Oh, and the CFL doesn't usually have at least one playre killed every year.

As the hacks would say, "Any PR is good PR". Perhaps the Canadian version is too much more "civilized".

[Skilly]

franko said:

The main difference between the CFL and the NFL: marketing. One has great marketing for a boring product (NFL); the other poor marketing for a more exciting product (CFL).

Oh, and the CFL doesn't usually have at least one playre killed every year.

And the NFL doesn't have a team folding every other year.

You are talking about a league where 6 of 8 teams makes the playoffs. That's not exciting, that's pathetic.

[franko]

skilly said:

e]

And the NFL doesn't have a team folding every other year.

Nope, they have teams loading semis in the middle of the night and moving . . . or moving from here to there and back again or moving from one location to another while another moves in to fill the void.

You are talking about a league where 6 of 8 teams makes the playoffs. That's not exciting, that's pathetic.

Careful, now . . . I know of a league that before expansion had 4 of 6 teams making the playoffs, and is talking about expanding playoffs to have 20/30 (or is it 24/30?) mkae the playoffs.

[Skilly]

franko said:

skilly said:

e]

And the NFL doesn't have a team folding every other year.

Nope, they have teams loading semis in the middle of the night and moving . . . or moving from here to there and back again or moving from one location to another while another moves in to fill the void.

Relocating is not folding. One team moved in the middle of the night (Baltimore Colts).


Shall I name all the CFL teams that folded up shop since 1984?

Ottawa Renegades - 2005
Ottawa Rough Riders - 1996
Birmingham Barracudas - 1995
Memphis Mad Dogs - 1995
Shreveport Pirates - 1995
San Antonio Pirates - 1995
Sacramento Gold Miners - 1994
Las Vegas Posse - 1994

And my personal favourite ..... who remembers the Atlantic Schooners in 1984. Yes, the CFL in 1984 explanded to Halifax, but the team never played a game.

And you can bet that the CFL is going to expand again. To where? Ohhhh why not go to Ottawa, a team that has folded twice in the last 10 years ... its as good a place as any.

[MC Habber]

I think I've said this before, but going to an Alouettes game at Molson Stadium is more fun than going to see the Canadiens, or any other sporting event I've been to. IMO, the CFL is exciting and the NFL is pretty boring - I don't watch it at all.

[Disgruntled70sHab]

skilly said:

franko said:

And you can bet that the CFL is going to expand again. To where? Ohhhh why not go to Ottawa, a team that has folded twice in the last 10 years ... its as good a place as any.

Both times the Glieberman family was involved in football in Ottawa. The league knew they had allowed the Rough Riders to die and they turned around and allowed the Glieberman's to run another club. The Renegades never had a chance.

I grew up watching the Rough Riders and even had seasons tickets one year. It was the hottest summer ticket in Ottawa. The Als/Riders rivalry was legendary ... almost personal at times.

I went to the Autostad (sp?) one year and sat beside an older gentleman who couldn't speak English. My French was pretty limited back then, but we carried on a pretty good rapport throughout the game. When the Riders scored a touchdown I'd nudge him in the ribs saying, "c'est bon hien?" and then stand up and cheer my fool head off.

When the Als scored a touchdown he's nudge me back with the same, "... that's good huh .." Had a great time ... was pretty hammered too.

Enter the 80's. I was dating the future Mrs. Dis at the time and she knew she could get a lot of studying done just by coming up to my place for a football game. The last CFL game she saw as when the Rider's lost their last Grey Cup appearnce back in ??

But, after 15 connsecutive losing seasons it became harder and harder to be a Riders fan. The Glieberman's didn't do a thing to improve their club. They hoarded whatever profits they made and cried poverty to the league, which refused to bail them out ... again.

Football in Ottawa would work if a guy like Jeff Hunt (owner of the 67's) were to step forward. However, he has no interest whatsoever. He did at one point though. Don't know why he backed out ... maybe he had to work with the Gliebermans' ... but that's only an assumption on my part.

Cheers.

[Skilly]

disgruntled70shab said:

Football in Ottawa would work if a guy like Jeff Hunt (owner of the 67's) were to step forward. However, he has no interest whatsoever. He did at one point though. Don't know why he backed out ... maybe he had to work with the Gliebermans' ... but that's only an assumption on my part.

Cheers.

Jeff Hunt is a Newfoundlander (from Corner Brook). I believe when he was pursuing the Ottawa football franchise, he switched gears and tried to get a major junior team in Corner Brook. He actually wanted to go the the QMJHL with the St. John's franchise as a duo, with the arguement being there would be a natural rivarly, and it would be cheaper for teams to come here if they had to play two teams.

That idea blew up when St. John's went to the QMJHL with three perspective owners. Without knowing who would win the franchise, Hunt had no idea of who to talk to. Then the QMJHL decided to expand to Saint John and St. John's. I think it is still a dream of his to bring a major junior team to Corner Brook.