Canadian snipers best in the world.

[Cranky]

We have the worlds best snipoers, but somehow, some people think that we should feel guilty about them. Pffft....

Here is a CBC story.

(Note, it goes out of it's way to "balance" the story with a few negative spins.)

www.cbc.ca/sunday/2007/09/090907_1.html

[Deleted]

Didn't know our snipers were so good. When do we invade the US?

[CentreHice]

Now if only we could get some Canadien snipers.

[Disgruntled70sHab]

habsaddict said:

We have the worlds best snipoers, but somehow, some people think that we should feel guilty about them. Pffft....

Here is a CBC story.

(Note, it goes out of it's way to "balance" the story with a few negative spins.)

www.cbc.ca/sunday/2007/09/090907_1.html

Nice find HA. We discussed this story before a year or so ago; maybe longer actually.

I had one soldier working for me who deployed on Operation Anaconda back then. Both the news that the snipers may have desecrated Taliban war dead and bragging about the longest confirmed kill in history, got around the camp very quickly.

Now, the military runs on rumours. Soldiers routinely run their own conclusions and by the time the story hits the second set of ears, it has probably changed completely. This is what the Canadian media obviously ran when they learned of the 'scoop.'

You might also remember me mentioning a former student of mine, Nigel Williams. Nigel used to play pro football with the Alouettes, Argos and Eskimos and even did one season with the Washington Redskins in the NFL. He was on his way to being an officer and saw action in Afghanistan. He's now a cop in Edmonton because of the BS he went through in the service.

The fact is the lads were exonerated but not before tarnishing their reputations as professional soldiers, let alone people. I don't blame these guys on iota for leaving the service. They had very little support because of these rumours.

Ah well. The service isn't for everyone. But when we get bonafide professionals like Rob Furlong and Nigel Williams leave, I'm surprised we get anyone at all. And when you see the film with Furlong you know the guy was a professional.

Cheers.

[Cranky]

Dis,

I still remember the first night you posted the 2500 meter shot and I responded that the only way they could do that is with a .50 cal.

I have enormous respect for snipers. Often, two of them are out there, way behind the lines with very little support if things go wrong. Two kilometers are NOTHING to a modern military and they could be overrun in a minute or two. Also, their job becomes VERY personal. Unlike pilots and artillery people, they see the consequences of their actions and they need to be mentally resilient to do their job.

War is not pretty. War is not a game. I understand that there are people who are opposed to war and violence but until there ever comes a time when there is neither, then all of us need to respect those who put their lives on the line for us.

[Disgruntled70sHab]

Something I noticed about Furlong, HA, is how much he has his act together. He doesn't come across like a particualry evil man, but a professional who knows when to turn it on or off. He's a beat cop in Edmonton but I suspect he could wind up either on a SWAT team or be involved training them.

One thing that stood out in his interview was how he described what a person looks like at that range. He can't see facial features from that distance but the enemy he zeroed in on resembled the outlines of the targets he used in training.

Interesting comment.

It reminds me of Gwynne Dyer's series "WAR". In part 4 (I think), which is called "The Deadly Game of Nations," Dyer focuses a lot on the Middle East conflicts. He interviewed a hardened Israeli veteran (still serving) and asked him whether he ever thought about some of the people he's shot. He replied, (paraphrase) "... I'm sorry to say, but the people look like the targets we use in training ..."

Now there are differences between the two. The episode focused on the effect of continuous war on people and nations. Furlong returned to a country that isn't affected by the war in Afghanistan. However, the battle-hardened Israeli soldier interviewed by Dyer has had to remain ready over the years (Dyer and his crew ended up getting caught in the middle of Israel's offensive into Lebanon).

"WAR" was filmed during the Cold War. It's possibly the best series ever produced by the CBC.

Cheers.

[Cranky]

disgruntled70shab said:

Something I noticed about Furlong, HA, is how much he has his act together. He doesn't come across like a particualry evil man, but a professional who knows when to turn it on or off. He's a beat cop in Edmonton but I suspect he could wind up either on a SWAT team or be involved training them.

.

I wish he had a more sober look about him. He did well in the interview but that is not going to stop the "peace loving critics".

Dis, what is the deploying "rules" for snipers? Are they deployed within their lines or are they behind enemy lines? My father was a sniper in the army and in the Resistance and he had no rules other then "take out the most valuable target" and do that wherever that would take him. He said that his most important duty in the regular army was to "occupy" the enemy and that would always take him inside the enemy lines.

[Disgruntled70sHab]

habsaddict said:

disgruntled70shab said:

Something I noticed about Furlong, HA, is how much he has his act together. He doesn't come across like a particualry evil man, but a professional who knows when to turn it on or off. He's a beat cop in Edmonton but I suspect he could wind up either on a SWAT team or be involved training them.

.

I wish he had a more sober look about him. He did well in the interview but that is not going to stop the "peace loving critics".

Dis, what is the deploying "rules" for snipers? Are they deployed within their lines or are they behind enemy lines? My father was a sniper in the army and in the Resistance and he had no rules other then "take out the most valuable target" and do that wherever that would take him. He said that his most important duty in the regular army was to "occupy" the enemy and that would always take him inside the enemy lines.

I can only give you a perspective as a former soldier who had his marksmen's badge for many years, HA. But to put that into perspective, there are quite a lot of marksmen in the service these days.

I think rules of engagement for any particular action apply to everyone in combat not just snipers. I think their missions might be a tad different than what we've seen on, say, a film based on fictitious history like "Enemy at the Gates." For instance, what the interview failed to provide was the mission Furlong and his mates were on. The sniper teams deployed on that day were in support of an American Ranger company that were pinned down by Taliban forces. Furlong and his mates were there to eliminate as much of the threat as possible. As an outsider looking in, I think snipers, like ordinary soldiers, receive their orders and carry them out.

From this I remember Bush saying to the Canadian press that Canadian snipers were performing "brilliantly" in Afghanistan and realized later that he was actually referring to Op Anaconda and the action we just discussed.

What takes away from the story is that these six snipers were to be awarded the Bronze Star for their actions. However, instead of receiving their decorations in Afghanistan in front of their peers (like the Americans do) within a few weeks, Ottawa sat on their citations (like they always do). The lads received their decorations at NDHQ Ottawa some time later. Very few peers were present ... but lots of press. And, of course, the rumours printed in the press didn't help their cause either.

So four of the six left.

What I hadn't realized until seeing the video is that sniper teams are organized in teams of three. I had always though the teams were comprised of two soldiers; the sniper and the spotter. But, it makes sense to have a support soldier there to cover what you and the spotter aren't looking at.

Cheers.

[Cranky]

Dis, FAR TOO MANY people believe that anyone with a gun in Canadian society is a maniacal mass murderers unless proven otherwise. That spills into our military where FAR TOO MANY people are willing to believe anything negative that satisfies that vision. Many Canadians believe the myth that Canada is a peaceful country and everybody loves us.

Back in the 60's my father and I would return from a hunt and take out our long guns from the trunk without raising any concerns by ANYONE. Now we would be surrounded by swat teams demanding the guns....and the rabbits.

~~~~~~

The "three" man team suprised me too. It makes sense. The spotter and shooter are concentrating far forward and may miss a flanking action particularly in mountain regions.

The .50 cals have changed all the rules. From my fathers perspective, one shot and you better get the hell out of there because the next shot gives you away and you are dead. 500 yards is not exactly a long distance. Now, they can shoot all day from two plus kilometers away.

I was watching a video of an American sniping team. They had two snipping teams and they were constantly firing, day and night. They didn't even bother to take cover. It makes it impossible for the enemy to regroup particularly if their best range comes from an AK-47.

BTW, have you seen the silencer/flash suppressor they put on 50's? It looks like a truck muffler.

[Disgruntled70sHab]

Thought I'd share these. Got them this morning from a former service buddy in Victoria.

Canadian Snipers (part 1)

Canadian Snipers (part 2)

I think there was some uncertainty as to whether the controversy surrounding their feats was actually valid or bogus. In fact, the controversy was created by irresponsible reporting.

As a result, the snipers in the film received their Bronze Stars two years later when they could have been presented them in front of their peers while in the Afghan theatre of operations.

Cheers.