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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Feb 14, 2008 19:52:26 GMT -5
Just came accross this in the Montreal Gazette McKibbin's Pub faces fines for English signs Alan Hustak, The Gazette Published: 4 hours ago McKibbins Irish Pub in Montreal will challenge an order from Quebec's language police to remove antique advertising posters from the popular Bishop Street night spot. Inspectors from Office de la langue française have ordered McKibbins to remove advertisments for Guiness Dublin 1759 Ireland Trademark, Palethorpes Pork Pies, and St. James Gate Dublin - products that have not been available for more than a century. On Feb 6, the Office de la langue française informed McKibbin's owners that, under article 58 of the language charter, too much English was being spoken among the staff. "We advise you that the law requires the French language to be predominant in public signs and commercial advertising; if another language is used at the same time, French must be given overall priority, the visual impact of the French text has to be much more important," the notice also read. McKibbin's could be fined as much as $1,500 for each infraction. Pub owners Rick Fon and Dean Laderoute say the signs were imported from Ireland when they opened thepub 10 years ago, and are décor, not a violation of Quebec's language laws. "We're not taking any of it down," said pub co-owner, Dean Laderoute. " If we cannot have an Irish decor, McKibbin's as an Irish pub ceases to exist." Viviane Guérin, the complaints specialist with the Office de langue française who ordered the signs removed cannot be reached for comment. McKibbins will be launching a website next Wednesday, www.byebyeolf.com, to solicit public opinion on the matter. This is the kind of stuff that hinders Gainey from recruiting hockey players from Ontario and Alberta. |
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Post by Cranky on Feb 15, 2008 20:16:05 GMT -5
HFLA,
I sent you a pm.
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Post by PTH on Feb 16, 2008 14:24:23 GMT -5
The OQLF is backing down, accepting that most of the signs are purely decorative, though some will need to be translated (ie, the non-decorative ones). As usual though, it's the ranting about the initial situation that people post on here, not the outcome.... And if the language of signs in bars is a factor in a player's choice, I think just turning on the TV in any US town (multiple firearm murders just about every day....) would be enough to run like the devil. Edit: Link: www.cyberpresse.ca/article/20080216/CPACTUALITES/802161006/-1/CPACTUALITESThough I don't know why I bother. Anyone who took this story seriously won't be able to read the article anyways.... |
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Post by Skilly on Feb 16, 2008 15:57:06 GMT -5
I actually saw this on the news for the first time today ..... I thought the story posted here was supposed to be some sort of joke, which caused the pm because of the touchy Kostopolous thread....
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Post by jkr on Feb 16, 2008 16:42:46 GMT -5
Just came accross this in the Montreal Gazette McKibbin's Pub faces fines for English signs Alan Hustak, The Gazette Published: 4 hours ago McKibbins Irish Pub in Montreal will challenge an order from Quebec's language police to remove antique advertising posters from the popular Bishop Street night spot. Inspectors from Office de la langue française have ordered McKibbins to remove advertisments for Guiness Dublin 1759 Ireland Trademark, Palethorpes Pork Pies, and St. James Gate Dublin - products that have not been available for more than a century. On Feb 6, the Office de la langue française informed McKibbin's owners that, under article 58 of the language charter, too much English was being spoken among the staff. "We advise you that the law requires the French language to be predominant in public signs and commercial advertising; if another language is used at the same time, French must be given overall priority, the visual impact of the French text has to be much more important," the notice also read. McKibbin's could be fined as much as $1,500 for each infraction. Pub owners Rick Fon and Dean Laderoute say the signs were imported from Ireland when they opened thepub 10 years ago, and are décor, not a violation of Quebec's language laws. "We're not taking any of it down," said pub co-owner, Dean Laderoute. " If we cannot have an Irish decor, McKibbin's as an Irish pub ceases to exist." Viviane Guérin, the complaints specialist with the Office de langue française who ordered the signs removed cannot be reached for comment. McKibbins will be launching a website next Wednesday, www.byebyeolf.com, to solicit public opinion on the matter. This is the kind of stuff that hinders Gainey from recruiting hockey players from Ontario and Alberta. Get serious. Players are not going to make a career decison based on this story.  BTW, you spelled orifice wrong. |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Feb 16, 2008 18:01:10 GMT -5
Just came accross this in the Montreal Gazette McKibbin's Pub faces fines for English signs Alan Hustak, The Gazette Published: 4 hours ago McKibbins Irish Pub in Montreal will challenge an order from Quebec's language police to remove antique advertising posters from the popular Bishop Street night spot. Inspectors from Office de la langue française have ordered McKibbins to remove advertisments for Guiness Dublin 1759 Ireland Trademark, Palethorpes Pork Pies, and St. James Gate Dublin - products that have not been available for more than a century. On Feb 6, the Office de la langue française informed McKibbin's owners that, under article 58 of the language charter, too much English was being spoken among the staff. "We advise you that the law requires the French language to be predominant in public signs and commercial advertising; if another language is used at the same time, French must be given overall priority, the visual impact of the French text has to be much more important," the notice also read. McKibbin's could be fined as much as $1,500 for each infraction. Pub owners Rick Fon and Dean Laderoute say the signs were imported from Ireland when they opened thepub 10 years ago, and are décor, not a violation of Quebec's language laws. "We're not taking any of it down," said pub co-owner, Dean Laderoute. " If we cannot have an Irish decor, McKibbin's as an Irish pub ceases to exist." Viviane Guérin, the complaints specialist with the Office de langue française who ordered the signs removed cannot be reached for comment. McKibbins will be launching a website next Wednesday, www.byebyeolf.com, to solicit public opinion on the matter. This is the kind of stuff that hinders Gainey from recruiting hockey players from Ontario and Alberta. Get serious. Players are not going to make a career decison based on this story. BTW, you spelled orifice wrong. You are correct and I changed the spelling. No player will change a career decision based on one story, but this is one of many stories about the Office de la langue francais, many indignations suffered by the English in Quebec, and one of many newspaper articles that gets reprinted accross the country and discussed in bars. Overall it creates a pervasive attitude among non-francophones about the province and this negative halo remains like Joe Blifstik's cloud whenever decisions are made. How many posters have friends that have left Quebec for other provinces or states. Francophones too have left for opportunities in Alberta of Ontario; not because they like Toronto's nightlife or Edmonton's winters, but for language freedom or economic opportunity. It is profoundly offensive to be told what language to speak or what school to attend. No player will make a career decision based upon a sign in a bar in Montreal, but by the same token, the French language in Quebec will not crumble because a sign in an Irish pub has some English words. |
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Post by MC Habber on Feb 16, 2008 18:47:18 GMT -5
a pervasive attitude among non-francophones about the province If such an attitude exists, it results more from a lack of journalistic integrity among some anglophone journalists than anything else. |
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Post by Doc Holliday on Feb 20, 2008 19:58:04 GMT -5
It is profoundly offensive to be told what language to speak or what school to attend. ...yet it is widely known that the Bush administration has made many inquiries about how Quebec was handling bill 101 because they felt the English language was threaten by spanish in many areas of the States. The day you'll hit downtown NY for some shopping and a beer and won't be able to use the english language to make yourself understood, you'll probably agree that language protection is not as offensive as it may appear. |
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Post by BadCompany on Feb 21, 2008 9:45:43 GMT -5
25 US states currently have "English Only" laws, to varying degrees of severity. ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jwcrawford/langleg.htm#StateNot sure if this passed or not, but here is some of a bill that was/is before Congress: Similar legislation is pending in Congress. If enacted, it would amend the U.S. Code in the following ways:
* English would be designated the official language of the U.S. government – indeed, the only language that federal employees and officials, including members of Congress, would be permitted to use for most government business.
*The English Only mandate would extend to federal "actions, documents, policies ... publications, income tax forms, informational materials," records, proceedings, letters to citizens – indeed, to any form of written communication on behalf of the U.S. government.
Exceptions to the ban on federal use of other languages would be permitted for purposes that include national security, international trade and diplomacy, public health and safety, criminal proceedings, language teaching, certain handicapped programs, and the preservation of Native American languages.
* An "entitlement" would be created, ensuring the "right" of every person to communicate with the federal government in English – in effect, a guaranteee of language rights, but for English speakers only.
* Civil lawsuits to enforce the law would be permitted by persons claiming to have been "injured by a violation" of it – a "right of action" that could give virtually any taxpayer the standing to sue in federal court.
*Naturalization ceremonies would be specifically restricted to English only.
*Bilingual provisions of the Voting Rights Act, which guarantee minority-language voting materials in certain jurisdictions, would be repealed. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Feb 21, 2008 10:31:24 GMT -5
The OQLF is backing down, accepting that most of the signs are purely decorative, though some will need to be translated (ie, the non-decorative ones). I think "backing down" might be accurate, but tend to see it as the OQLF not being as hard-lined as they can be. I think they're making concessions here because they might be recognizing that English is a part of their make up as a province. Montreal is probably the most bilingual city I've ever been to (and Mrs Dis and I lived in Germany for five years). People will automatically switch from English to French as soon as they realize who they're talking to. You don't go to the corner store, you go to the Dep. IMHO, there's enough room for the English language, or any other language for that matter, without compromising the French language base. I don't have a crystal ball but I'm willing to bet that we're going to see a few more compromises here and there. I mean, it's not like there's a huge exodus of Anglophones or Allophones from Quebec these days ... at least not on the scale as it was before. As an aside, but keeping with traditions, I found it interesting just how extensive the French language was used, historically speaking. From what I've read, French was once used in the New England states as a form of being polite. Benjamin Franklin stumbled through French but spoke nonetheless. And I found it odd that one of the highest Prussian military orders, or "The Blue Max" has French a French inscription on it "Pour le Mérite." I didn't realize that the official language of Hohenzollern court was French. Need any more off-tracked information just drop me a line. Cheers. |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Feb 23, 2008 16:57:01 GMT -5
The OQLF is backing down, accepting that most of the signs are purely decorative, though some will need to be translated (ie, the non-decorative ones). I think "backing down" might be accurate, but tend to see it as the OQLF not being as hard-lined as they can be. Cheers. Less hard lined is when the Taliban stops chopping off hands and starts chopping off fingers. When they start giving manicures, I will notice the real change. As Rene Levesque paraphrased Ronald Regan with his famous speech, "Mr. Singer, tear down that sign!" Later saying, "oops, my bad, you can put it back up", does not adequately remedy the problem. If it's my sign, it should be in the language of my choice and say what I want. Pointe finale! |
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Post by Skilly on Feb 23, 2008 20:13:38 GMT -5
I think "backing down" might be accurate, but tend to see it as the OQLF not being as hard-lined as they can be. Cheers. Less hard lined is when the Taliban stops chopping off hands and starts chopping off fingers. When they start giving manicures, I will notice the real change. As Rene Levesque paraphrased Ronald Regan with his famous speech, "Mr. Singer, tear down that sign!" Later saying, "oops, my bad, you can put it back up", does not adequately remedy the problem. If it's my sign, it should be in the language of my choice and say what I want. Pointe finale! How can you compare the Taliban to Quebec? |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Feb 24, 2008 8:41:35 GMT -5
Less hard lined is when the Taliban stops chopping off hands and starts chopping off fingers. When they start giving manicures, I will notice the real change. As Rene Levesque paraphrased Ronald Regan with his famous speech, "Mr. Singer, tear down that sign!" Later saying, "oops, my bad, you can put it back up", does not adequately remedy the problem. If it's my sign, it should be in the language of my choice and say what I want. Pointe finale! How can you compare the Taliban to Quebec? The Taliban tells people what they may and may not say. The Taliban believes that the end justifies the means. The Taliban wants to proctct their culture and forcefully integrate non-believers into their culture. The Taliban wants to separate from the country of Afganistan and start their own country with whatever restrictive laws they want to impose. The Taliban wants to control what television, movies and entertainment is permissable and how and when it can be viewed. The Taliban wants ethnic cleansing. The Taliban plants bombs and supports kidnapping. Quebec believes they can tell people what language they can speak and where. Quebec believes the end of preserving the french language justfies unjust restrictive laws. Quebec wants to preserve their culture. Quebec wants to separate. Quebec controls communication and the release of movies. Quebec supports pure laine ethnic citizenship. The FLQ plants bombs and supports kidnapping. The Taliban is more radical and bathes less frequently. Not an exact comparison in degree, but they can be compared. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Feb 24, 2008 10:02:36 GMT -5
How can you compare the Taliban to Quebec? The Taliban tells people what they may and may not say. The Taliban believes that the end justifies the means. The Taliban wants to proctct their culture and forcefully integrate non-believers into their culture. The Taliban wants to separate from the country of Afganistan and start their own country with whatever restrictive laws they want to impose. The Taliban wants to control what television, movies and entertainment is permissable and how and when it can be viewed. The Taliban wants ethnic cleansing. The Taliban plants bombs and supports kidnapping. Quebec believes they can tell people what language they can speak and where. Quebec believes the end of preserving the french language justfies unjust restrictive laws. Quebec wants to preserve their culture. Quebec wants to separate. Quebec controls communication and the release of movies. Quebec supports pure laine ethnic citizenship. The FLQ plants bombs and supports kidnapping. The Taliban is more radical and bathes less frequently. Not an exact comparison in degree, but they can be compared. Should we explore US history based on some of your examples? You mentioned the FLQ after all. This opens quite a few historical doors. Cheers. |
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Post by Skilly on Feb 24, 2008 14:49:27 GMT -5
How can you compare the Taliban to Quebec? The Taliban tells people what they may and may not say. The Taliban believes that the end justifies the means. The Taliban wants to proctct their culture and forcefully integrate non-believers into their culture. The Taliban wants to separate from the country of Afganistan and start their own country with whatever restrictive laws they want to impose. The Taliban wants to control what television, movies and entertainment is permissable and how and when it can be viewed. The Taliban wants ethnic cleansing. The Taliban plants bombs and supports kidnapping. Quebec believes they can tell people what language they can speak and where. Quebec believes the end of preserving the french language justfies unjust restrictive laws. Quebec wants to preserve their culture. Quebec wants to separate. Quebec controls communication and the release of movies. Quebec supports pure laine ethnic citizenship. The FLQ plants bombs and supports kidnapping. The Taliban is more radical and bathes less frequently. Not an exact comparison in degree, but they can be compared. I'm speechless .... shakes head .... I'm not sure I can say anything without violating the COC. |
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Post by jkr on Mar 6, 2008 17:38:58 GMT -5
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Post by jkr on Mar 6, 2008 17:42:18 GMT -5
The Taliban tells people what they may and may not say. The Taliban believes that the end justifies the means. The Taliban wants to proctct their culture and forcefully integrate non-believers into their culture. The Taliban wants to separate from the country of Afganistan and start their own country with whatever restrictive laws they want to impose. The Taliban wants to control what television, movies and entertainment is permissable and how and when it can be viewed. The Taliban wants ethnic cleansing. The Taliban plants bombs and supports kidnapping. Quebec believes they can tell people what language they can speak and where. Quebec believes the end of preserving the french language justfies unjust restrictive laws. Quebec wants to preserve their culture. Quebec wants to separate. Quebec controls communication and the release of movies. Quebec supports pure laine ethnic citizenship. The FLQ plants bombs and supports kidnapping. The Taliban is more radical and bathes less frequently. Not an exact comparison in degree, but they can be compared. I'm speechless .... shakes head .... I'm not sure I can say anything without violating the COC. I just saw this today & I'm with you. Did he even bother to check his facts before he posted that? I don't want to revisit this if it's been dropped but c'mon. Even some of those things about the Taliban are incorrect. Comparing an extremist religious group that tramples on the freedoms of it's citizens (especially women), and terrorizes is citizens to a democratic government that imposes some language protection is ludicrous to the extreme. |
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