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Post by Cranky on Apr 25, 2008 10:06:31 GMT -5
world governments are pretty much unanimously agreeing it is a problem, well the ones that don't put economy before health anyway. No, you're right . . . world governments are pretty much in agreement that there is a problem. World peoples are not in agreement as to how the problem should be resolved. Wait -- actually they are -- they all say someone else should do it. forgive my cynicism: political expediency, Political expediencey AND most countires will PROFIT from this. If only the gullible sheep from the West just buy into the malarkey and bend over!  |
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Post by Cranky on Apr 25, 2008 10:11:21 GMT -5
While it is true I could have as much caribou, moose, or fish (cod, mackarel, herring, salmon, trout, etc) that I want (good ol mom!!), I hate that diet. When I calculate my grocery bill franko, I am not including all the little trips my wife makes every two or three days to pick up "extras" ... if I did, I'd be bald and grey (which is right around the corner and I want to hang on to the little hair I have a while longer). My bill is probably more likely around $200 a week .... Pretty much the same here, Skilly. It's the staples that nickel-and-dime us to oblivion. And my teenager eats a mountain every day. However, I'm glad he likes his fish. Trout, cod and pickerel filets are probably the family faves. And, of course, anything battered. Cheers. We are two people and I was stunned me to find out how much it costs to eat. Sure, we tend to buy some luxury items but strip those away and it still kind of a shock. I'm expecting rampant stagflation to be hitting us very soon. (Stagflation: persistent inflation combined with stagnant consumer demand and relatively high unemployment ) |
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Post by The New Guy on Apr 25, 2008 21:48:27 GMT -5
in the past week i've read stories on: food shortages worldwide droughts in many places worldwide rice increasing in price massively haitians fleeing their country because of lack of food overfishing salmon lice coral reefs in australia being eaten because of warmer waters (really hope this isn't a natural cycle, i love snorkeling and want to be able to do it with my grandchildren) oil prices all time high which will contribute to inflation greenland really is green now and not an ice sheet if it's us or natural, either way it's going to cost us a lot over the next few decades. save your pennies. Did it ever occur to you that some (if not all) of these might be caused by other factors? Your food shortages, food riots in Haiti, and rising price of rice have manifold causes, only one of which can be even remotely linked to 'global warming' (that's drought - some of these droughts, which I mention in just a minute, are aggravating the situation). In fact, the fight against 'global warming' is more at fault for these than anything else. More and more farmers are turning away from growing food crops because - with the growing price for oil and environmentalists everywhere preaching about the how we must find alternative, clean fuel sources - they are realizing that they can make a hell of a lot more money making biofuel than food. Worldwide droughts are nothing new - I'd be happy to look at specific data you might be able to find about an uptick in the number of droughts. But we've been facing droughts as long as we've been making farms. Overfishing is also nothing new. Nothing to do with global warming. Absolutely nothing. Salmon Lice (actually, Sea Lice) are common in salmon farms in B.C.. Again, completely and totally unrelated to global warming. The coral reef die-off is concerning. But again, there's not a whole lot of evidence linking the die off to 'global warming'. It's mostly just a generalized thing - it's global warming, or El Nino, or the destruction of mangrove reefs, or the fishing industry or... well, the list goes on. And finally Greenland. Well, you might worry about Greenland being green. But some time ago (let's say 800-1300 AD - that's before people invented the word 'global warming' to scare the hell out of people) trees and plants were prolific in Greenland, and the Norse people happily settled on the island and survived - until the climate plunged again into the little ice age. And no one complained about Kyoto. So it's not unheard of for Greenland to be green. It's just our own, egotistical way of assuming that what everything should be exists only as far as what our experiences tell us they should be. |
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Post by Skilly on Apr 26, 2008 0:00:46 GMT -5
I don't think H&C was saying global warming was the cause of all the things he lists ... I took it more to be a list of what some people consider problems with our food supply/environment/world.
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Post by The New Guy on Apr 26, 2008 0:19:45 GMT -5
I don't think H&C was saying global warming was the cause of all the things he lists ... I took it more to be a list of what some people consider problems with our food supply/environment/world. I disagree with your interpretation of what H&C meant (putting in the same article where he talks about the tipping point and Kyoto and what have you) but I've been known to be a bit overzealous before, so lets say your right. Then lets group his problems into some quick and easy groups: Caused by Environmentalists/ConservationalistsFood shortages and the associated consequences Sea lice in B.C. salmon Caused by Mother NatureDroughts Greenland being 'green' Causes unknownCoral reefs Caused by human interventionOverfishing Oil Prices So we've got two - two - things that any action, other than divine intervention/the environmentalists trying to make sense again, that a person can have an effect on. Overfishing, and oil prices. Well, oil prices are easy. Do you want to know why Oil is so expensive right now? Here's a hint - it's not because we're all of a sudden using more and more oil. It's not because we've run out all of a sudden. It's not even because of some Iranian War. It's because the bottom has fallen out of the U.S. Economy, and the people who have money to invest are investing it in oil and other commodities (which are significantly more insulated against an economic downturn). It's killing us, but the fact is that the price of oil is so high because investors want to own it. Not because of any of the other factors. And not much you can do - except save the U.S. Economy. And then there's overfishing. Well maybe - maybe - a boycott of fish based products would work. Maybe there's validity in doing something like that. But I doubt it will have much effect. Because ultimately, people will want the fish elsewhere, and it will be sold. It's always sold. |
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Post by franko on Apr 26, 2008 3:55:55 GMT -5
Well, TNG . . .
Food shortages and the associated consequences and Sea lice in B.C. salmon aren't caused by Environmentalists/Conservationalists; greed is the cause (a buck extra for biofuel, and the whole salmon/trout farm leads to problems.
Droughts are caused by; also due to man's intervention in the world: overfarming and stripping the land, for two; sometimes a natural occurance.
Overfishing and Oil Prices definitely Caused by human intervention
I give you "
Causes unknown" for Coral reefs Greenland being 'green'.
We cause a lot of the prolems (though I'm not going to go so far as us being a "blight".
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Post by ropoflu on Apr 26, 2008 12:57:58 GMT -5
I'm with you H&C.
And I'm with you HA.
That's the thing IMHO. We all live together. Together in a world with physical limits, limited resources.
The economic theories upon which our developed societies have evolved, barely recognized those limits and almost never accounted for them, mostly because we couldn't/wouldn't see them. That is starting to change.
In some cases (agriculture, forestry, mining, fisheries, etc.), technonolgy, science and the powerful financial instruments we developed has allowed us to post-pone the payment our "ecolonomical" debt. But I'm not sure how long its going to last. We seem to be winning one battle but then losing two. Feels like we're down 3-1 in a best of seven serie.
That being said, I'm optimistic that humanity will eventually see the wall and will turn just in time. Somewhere down the line, I think our lifestyles are going to evolve into something more inline with the carrying capacity of this little planet. I just hope not too many suffer in the process.
Cheers.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Apr 26, 2008 13:50:00 GMT -5
There is a solution to the high price of gasoline.
Step 1. Buy shares of Suncor, Petrocan and Syncrude.
Step 2. Watch the price of gasoline go up at the gas station.
Step 3. Try to supress your smile.
If you think the price of gas will go down follow the reverse of the above and be prepared to mortgage your house.
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