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Post by habmeister on Apr 22, 2008 21:13:32 GMT -5
The tipping point is coming, i'm not looking forward to the next few decades on this planet. can i move somewhere else where the inhabitants take care of where they live rather than Saperlipopetteting in their own bed?
i'd rather keep this thread for posters that aren't going to argue that what is happening to our planet is just natural, i'm wondering if there are any scientists on here that are studying any of the destruction that we're causing to our home, planet earth.
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Post by habmeister on Apr 22, 2008 21:15:29 GMT -5
1. Leave your car at home for a day (or a week or a month) and try walking or biking. If work is too far away to walk, take public transit or carpool. One city bus eliminates the emissions of 40 cars.
2. Turn off the lights, the computer and the television when they are not in use. Using only highly efficient and money-saving appliances can reduce the electricity consumption of an average household to one-10th of the national average.
3. Try eating meat-free at least one day a week. A meat-based diet requires seven times more land than a plant-based diet. Livestock production is responsible for more climate change gasses than all the motor vehicles in the world.
4. Choose foods produced organically, locally and in season. Support your regional farmers and farming industry: buying locally and in season is better for the environment than buying foods that have been shipped hundreds of kilometres to your local market.
5. Put a composter in your backyard or use your green bin to reduce household waste. Composting organics has two key benefits: it reduces the amount of waste going to landfills and when added to your garden, helps nourish soil and plants.
6. Turn off your car's engine if stopped for more than 10 seconds. If every driver of a light-duty vehicle avoided idling by five minutes a day, collectively, we would save 1.8 million litres of fuel per day, almost 4500 tonnes of GHG emissions.
7. Set your thermostat above room temperature in the summer and below room temperature in the winter. For each degree you adjust, you can save 5% on your utility bill and 1% on your energy use.
8. Replace incandescent light bulbs with compact fluorescent bulbs (CFLs). A CFL uses only 25% as much energy as an incandescent bulb and lasts 10 times longer.
9. The simple act of recycling has more impact on the environment than the average Canadian thinks. The amount of wood and paper North Americans throw away each year is enough to heat five million homes for 200 years.
10. This is a great opportunity to brag. Tell someone what you're doing to make the world a better place. Support the cause. Encourage them to get involved too.
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Post by franko on Apr 22, 2008 21:31:37 GMT -5
The tipping point is coming, i'm not looking forward to the next few decades on this planet. can i move somewhere else where the inhabitants take care of where they live rather than Saperlipopetteting in their own bed? Interesting comment, H&C . . . and interesting that BC wants to parade itself as leaders in the fight for a clean earth yet Victoria continues to pump raw sewage into the Strait of Juan de Fuca. Mr. Floatie indeedNot sure that many could deny that we are at the very least somewhat responsible for the mess. As long as we can avoid the terms global warming and man made climate change we should be OK ;D From a Christian perpective, it irks me to no end that "the church" is not leading -- or has not led -- the fight for taking care of our world. After all, we claim that there is a Creator . . . we should be keeping care of His Creation (and I do not mean to turn this into a theological/religious argument, though it is a moral one). Good suggestions. We can always find excuses . . . will we find the will? |
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Post by habmeister on Apr 22, 2008 21:45:35 GMT -5
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Post by habmeister on Apr 22, 2008 22:38:28 GMT -5
i don't think BC parades itself as the leaders of the fight for a clean earth, maybe from the ontario perspective it looks like it i guess. i think australia and many european countries are much ahead of us. we're ok as far as north america is concerned i guess.
question for you since you're from ontario. i was in toronto 3 summers ago or was it 4? for world cup of hockey and i was told that lake ontario is dead, is that true? not sure if those were the exact choice of words, but it was hot and i wanted to go for a swim and someone told me you can't even put your toe in it.
i'm not trying to be doom and gloom, it just seems like with population growth and china becoming wealthy and putting another billion cars on the road, can we really keep the earth from heating up and melting those ice caps?
another thing i worry about is this shark fin soup that they like to eat, if they fish all of the sharks from the ocean what will be the ripple down effect?
its almost like we're living like we're the last generation to live on this rock.
you have a very good point about your religious leaders, i'm not sure, do they believe that everything is already planned out and there is nothing they can do to change it?
interesting times we're living in, very interesting, i hope it all turns out for the best.
i have a new goal of doing enough in my lifetime to wipe my footprint and my entire families footprints from the planet by the time i check out.
off topic, just got a book called "america alone", you might want to check it out. scary read.
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Post by MC Habber on Apr 23, 2008 2:13:29 GMT -5
For several years ocean researcher Charles Moore has been investigating a concentration of floating plastic debris in the North Pacific Gyre. He has reported concentrations of plastics on the order of 3,340,000 pieces/km² with a mean mass of 5.1kg/km² collected using a manta trawl with a rectangular opening of 0.9m x 0.15m at the surface. Trawls at depths of 10m found less than half, consisting primarily of monofilament line fouled with diatoms and other plankton.[3]
Estimates of the size of the patch varies from the size of Texas[4] to twice as large as the continental United States.[5] Researcher Dr Marcus Eriksen believes the Great Pacific Garbage Patch is two areas of rubbish that are linked. Eriksen says the gyre stretches from about 500 nautical miles off the coast of California, across the Northern Pacific to near the coast of Japan[6].
The Independent newspaper stated that Moore estimates there are 100 million tons of flotsam in the North Pacific Gyre.
Much of the plastic is in very small pieces floating under the surface of the water, meaning capturing a photograph of the patch is not possible. Because the garbage is so small and scattered, clean-up is also incredibly difficult, without endangering sea life.[7]en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pacific_Garbage_Patch
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Apr 23, 2008 7:30:30 GMT -5
i'd rather keep this thread for posters that aren't going to argue that what is happening to our planet is just natural, This will be hard to do. Once a thread is started "ownership" of it becomes the community's. If there are those who feel that this is a natural process, then they should be encouraged to promote their beliefs, so as to have all of the cards can come out on the table. So long a healthy debate and/or mature discussion ensues there shouldn't be any problems. It would be excellent to have just one check into the board. Cheers. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Apr 23, 2008 7:50:09 GMT -5
question for you since you're from ontario. i was in toronto 3 summers ago or was it 4? for world cup of hockey and i was told that lake ontario is dead, is that true? not sure if those were the exact choice of words, but it was hot and i wanted to go for a swim and someone told me you can't even put your toe in it. Kingston is right on Lake Ontario and we have people swimming in it all of the time. However, we do get the odd advisory where it is recommended we not swim. Once it was for a seagull problem. We also get a frequent smog advisory as well. However, the problem doesn't eminate from Toronto, as many believe. The majority of our bad air comes from coal power plants in Ohio. That's the skinny. Cheers. |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Apr 23, 2008 9:04:03 GMT -5
1. Leave your car at home for a day (or a week or a month) and try walking or biking. If work is too far away to walk, take public transit or carpool. One city bus eliminates the emissions of 40 cars. 2. Turn off the lights, the computer and the television when they are not in use. Using only highly efficient and money-saving appliances can reduce the electricity consumption of an average household to one-10th of the national average. 3. Try eating meat-free at least one day a week. A meat-based diet requires seven times more land than a plant-based diet. Livestock production is responsible for more climate change gasses than all the motor vehicles in the world. 4. Choose foods produced organically, locally and in season. Support your regional farmers and farming industry: buying locally and in season is better for the environment than buying foods that have been shipped hundreds of kilometres to your local market. 5. Put a composter in your backyard or use your green bin to reduce household waste. Composting organics has two key benefits: it reduces the amount of waste going to landfills and when added to your garden, helps nourish soil and plants. 6. Turn off your car's engine if stopped for more than 10 seconds. If every driver of a light-duty vehicle avoided idling by five minutes a day, collectively, we would save 1.8 million litres of fuel per day, almost 4500 tonnes of GHG emissions. 7. Set your thermostat above room temperature in the summer and below room temperature in the winter. For each degree you adjust, you can save 5% on your utility bill and 1% on your energy use. 8. Replace incandescent light bulbs with compact fluorescent bulbs (CFLs). A CFL uses only 25% as much energy as an incandescent bulb and lasts 10 times longer. 9. The simple act of recycling has more impact on the environment than the average Canadian thinks. The amount of wood and paper North Americans throw away each year is enough to heat five million homes for 200 years. 10. This is a great opportunity to brag. Tell someone what you're doing to make the world a better place. Support the cause. Encourage them to get involved too. 1. Pump carbon dioxide back into the ground. This can be accomplished at oil wells to reduce CO2 in the atmosphere and increase the flow of oil to the surface. 2. Reduce the total world population. This fragile blue planet can sustain a limited population. The population it can sustain with a high quality of life is much lower than current levels. 3. Reduce methane released into the atmosphere. Plow under all the ground within 100 miles of the Don Valley Parkway to a) beautify the world, b) eliminate garbage and c) reduce the total number of leafs fans to an acceptable level. This has the added benefit of making the CBC more representative of the interests of the people of Canada. |
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Post by Skilly on Apr 23, 2008 9:06:17 GMT -5
i have a new goal of doing enough in my lifetime to wipe my footprint and my entire families footprints from the planet by the time i check out. I'm glad you didn't use the kosher term "carbon footprint". I know you want to keep this a postive let's save the earth thread, so I wont comment on the 10 steps to saving the planet. But one thing I'd like to comment on is that I have a hard time believing that carbon dioxide (or carbon in any form) is the problem. There are what, 6 billion (?) humans on earth ... and you know what? .... each and every one of them exhales carbon dioxide about once every 2 seconds. We emit about 1 kg per person per day into the atmopshere. So that is 6 billion kilograms which is 6 million t a day. The argument by scientists is that human exhaling is a closed loop, whereby ALL of it is taken up and used in the carbon cycle (photosynthesis) .... yet exhaling contributes more carbon to the atmopshere (remember, I only counted humans. All the other lifeforms also exhale) than anything else.... but it is carbon emissions that is causing this phenonmenon? I have my doubts. |
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Post by CrocRob on Apr 23, 2008 9:12:29 GMT -5
There's some irony that we're talking about energy usage, yet we're all fans of a sport that requires the refrigeration of a giant arena.
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Post by franko on Apr 23, 2008 10:04:39 GMT -5
. . . plus travel to and from said arena, plus electricity usage to light, broadcast, and watch said game, plus energy expended to brew libations and mash and form potatoes (and ship to local areas) for consumption, plus . . .
(my head is going to explode!!!)
We can go back to the dark ages, but I think we are beyond that. So . . . let's take some responsibility for our little part of the world (and Skilly: I am not going to stop breathing!).
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Post by Cranky on Apr 23, 2008 10:20:38 GMT -5
. . . plus travel to and from said arena, plus electricity usage to light, broadcast, and watch said game, plus energy expended to brew libations and mash and form potatoes (and ship to local areas) for consumption, plus . . . ( my head is going to explode!!!) We can go back to the dark ages, but I think we are beyond that. So . . . let's take some responsibility for our little part of the world (and Skilly: I am not going to stop breathing!). "Cutting back" only applies to what the OTHER guy does. Let's not do ANYTHING that affects the earth dayers. What about shutting down all cell phone use? There is a theory that cell phone use can cause brain cancer and it's a a LOT more plausable theory then "carbon footprint". Or how about stopping all those cafes? Who needs all that pollution generated flying all those sexy coffees half way around the world? Or how about shutting down the internet? How much energy goes into computers? Environmentalism has become the new communism. Dictate to other how to live......and demand conformity by decree. Prosperity and a better life must be subjugated to the one page environmental "expertise" of the few. |
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Post by Cranky on Apr 23, 2008 10:28:30 GMT -5
i have a new goal of doing enough in my lifetime to wipe my footprint and my entire families footprints from the planet by the time i check out. I'm glad you didn't use the kosher term "carbon footprint". I know you want to keep this a postive let's save the earth thread, so I wont comment on the 10 steps to saving the planet. But one thing I'd like to comment on is that I have a hard time believing that carbon dioxide (or carbon in any form) is the problem. There are what, 6 billion (?) humans on earth ... and you know what? .... each and every one of them exhales carbon dioxide about once every 2 seconds. We emit about 1 kg per person per day into the atmopshere. So that is 6 billion kilograms which is 6 million t a day. The argument by scientists is that human exhaling is a closed loop, whereby ALL of it is taken up and used in the carbon cycle (photosynthesis) .... yet exhaling contributes more carbon to the atmopshere (remember, I only counted humans. All the other lifeforms also exhale) than anything else.... but it is carbon emissions that is causing this phenonmenon? I have my doubts. Oh please, stop coming in with facts. Don't you know that humans are causing everything and that only the elimination of humans will "heal" the planet? *sigh* I can't even find words to describe the "logic" defining what all animal life (including humans) exhale as "pollution". |
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Post by The New Guy on Apr 23, 2008 11:53:38 GMT -5
2. Reduce the total world population. This fragile blue planet can sustain a limited population. The population it can sustain with a high quality of life is much lower than current levels. Can we start with Leafs fans? |
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Post by CrocRob on Apr 23, 2008 12:36:38 GMT -5
What about shutting down all cell phone use? There is a theory that cell phone use can cause brain cancer and it's a a LOT more plausable theory then "carbon footprint". Well according to the research I read a year or so ago when I wrote a report on it, not really. It's speculative at best and is correlated with brain cancer about as well as artificial sweeteners. Not to mention that to even get the results (on mice) they had to increase the cell phone signal strength to unseen-in-the-real-world levels. I understand your point has nothing to do with it, I just wanted to clarify so these theories don't get many legs behind them. |
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Post by habmeister on Apr 23, 2008 13:05:52 GMT -5
if cleaning up the earth meant more prosperity and more money for everyone there would be NO ARGUMENT, the only people who argue against it are ones that fear they may not be able to continue to live the same lifestyle. their children and grand-children will clean up their mess, hopefully we won't have passed the point of no return.
what's that you say MC habber millions of pounds of garbage in the ocean? don't worry about it, it'll sort itself out, eventually those polar bears will learn to recycle properly up there, has nothing to do with us humans.
it's only nature to pull fossil fuels out of the ground and burn it into the atmosphere, if we weren't here the monkeys would be doing it, we just beat them to it with our opposable thumbs.
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Post by Skilly on Apr 23, 2008 13:38:12 GMT -5
if cleaning up the earth meant more prosperity and more money for everyone there would be NO ARGUMENT, the only people who argue against it are ones that fear they may not be able to continue to live the same lifestyle. their children and grand-children will clean up their mess, hopefully we won't have passed the point of no return. what's that you say MC habber millions of pounds of garbage in the ocean? don't worry about it, it'll sort itself out, eventually those polar bears will learn to recycle properly up there, has nothing to do with us humans. it's only nature to pull fossil fuels out of the ground and burn it into the atmosphere, if we weren't here the monkeys would be doing it, we just beat them to it with our opposable thumbs. This is the attitude that irks me .... This isn't about prosperity, money, or lifestyle. It is about doing what will work. Yes, recycle ... yes , compost ..... but don't come up with some theory, and thats all global warming/climate change is, and then brush aside debate on that subject. The theory has too many holes in it. And then there is the whole self study aspect to it ... Al Gore won a Nobel Prize for his doggy-poop analysis. Yet, he contributes more pollution to the earth than any average joe ... he gets away with it by buying carbon credits from a company he owns!! So he is making money, by polluting, and then being all sanctimonious about it. Now I'll use an example. Are you willing to give up your 50" plasma TV you recently bought? Why did you buy plasma? They use the MOST energy. If you had any consideration for the enviornment then you'd buy an LCD or a tube tv. You speak about "not being able to live the same lifestyle" ..... will you now give up your TV? Of course not ... oh and for the record I have a 36" Sony Wega Trinitron HD-compatible tube TV.  You might do all those 10 things you listed ... others might do other things .... everyone doing a little is the key, and not crapping on someone for questioning and/or not doing the same as you..... We all want to watch the Habs in HD ... every think about how much energy it takes to watch HD. Should we all give up our HD TVs now? ..... |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Apr 23, 2008 13:41:58 GMT -5
It's a good discussion but to me, I just don't think we're smart enough as a species to really, honestly give a hoot.
A lot of the initiatives we're talking about are pretty much for countries who understand the results of not taking measures now. And that doesn't mean everyone will adhere to the initiatives. Many people I've talked to about Earth Day simply say, "... oh yeah ... that's right ..." and then go about their day.
However, what about countries where this information is not so readily available? It's the same thing we were talking about in the global warming thread. We can do all we want in trying to save the world's environments, but what about those countries who either don't care, or simply don't understand the thread? How do we push these initiatives on countries like India and China?
Cheers.
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Post by franko on Apr 23, 2008 14:42:01 GMT -5
We don't Dis, because they aren't interested . . . they [the people, that is] are interested in catching up with us/our affluent lifestyles.
And all well and good for us to say "we need to end fossil fuel usage" (and we are indeed overdependent on it) . . . but here in Northern North America we need to come up with an alternative.
Got into an argument a discussion last year with a government worker (how's that for an oxymoron -- except he is indeed a worker!) about "user pay" for things like . . . oh . . . electricity (we pay below cost here in Ontario -- when the PCs raised rates a few years ago to market value [or talked of it -- I can't remember which] they were quickly tossed out) he said "it can't be done -- what about the seniors who need their air conditioning -- they won't be able to afford it". So it's the same old we need to do something . . . I'm in favour of doing something . . . as long as it doesn't affect me.
Example: WalMart. Came into Ottawa and there was a hue and cry about it -- an invasion, a US based company wanting to put Canadian companies out of business. BOYCOTT! Well, people did . . . for about a week and a half. Then when they realized prices were low and they'd save money . . . bu-bye principles! Same with Chapters-Indigo (at least it's Canadian).
I have no problem with H&C's list . . . and in fact no problem with going further. But I hate to say, it's as with most people: I'm only going to do so much. I'll fly to BC to visit my family and probably not even think about contrails and greenhouse gases and who knows what all else.
And the fact is, until it costs -- and I mean rally costs -- people will still drive SUVs and buy plasma TVs (filling landfills with their old sets) and eat pork and beef . . .
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Post by franko on Apr 23, 2008 14:43:15 GMT -5
The tipping point is coming And that's when something will be done. Nope. |
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Post by The New Guy on Apr 23, 2008 15:17:17 GMT -5
if cleaning up the earth meant more prosperity and more money for everyone there would be NO ARGUMENT, the only people who argue against it are ones that fear they may not be able to continue to live the same lifestyle. their children and grand-children will clean up their mess, hopefully we won't have passed the point of no return. what's that you say MC habber millions of pounds of garbage in the ocean? don't worry about it, it'll sort itself out, eventually those polar bears will learn to recycle properly up there, has nothing to do with us humans. it's only nature to pull fossil fuels out of the ground and burn it into the atmosphere, if we weren't here the monkeys would be doing it, we just beat them to it with our opposable thumbs. I wonder if you see what you're problem is H&C. You're paint us all with the same brush. Your automatically assuming that, since we don't necessarily believe in the myth/fact of global warming that we simply don't care about the environment. Untrue. I don't think even the most polemic of us in this space would say it's a terribly wise idea to continue to dump tonnes of garbage into the sea. Nor would any say "hm... let's go contaminate our lakes and streams with mercury". What I'm against, personally, is the endless crusade of tree-huggers who use your mentality. You're either extremist, or your against us. Well you know what? I drive an SUV (a light SUV mind you, but an SUV none-the-less) to work every day. In the mornings it's empty. Why do I drive an SUV? Because my wife feels safer in one (4-wheel drive in the snow and ice, dont'cha know) and I can't afford to own two cars. Does that make me horrible? Guilty of some crime against the earth? I don't think so. For my wife it's piece of mind. For me it's economics. For the record, my first three years in T.O. I was a user of the TTC (or a slave to - I'm not sure which). But, quite frankly, aside from the fact I get an extra half-hour's sleep in the morning, and an extra hour with my wife in the evenings (the difference has to do with bus schedules) - well, let me tell you. It may be one thing waiting for the bus in Vancouver in the winter, it's a whole 'nother story waiting for it in Toronto. And summer's not much better - for someone who finds 15 degrees balmy, Toronto summers are a killer. By the way, now that you've already judged - does it matter that on the way home I carpool with someone (when I can)? Yup, that's me - the SUV driving maniac who carpools with other people (and not just because I pity people waiting for the bus). Most of us don't want the extremist lifestyle that some choose to lead - and I've yet to see any evidence which suggests that I need to change my ways. I turn out the lights behind me (except for the bathroom light at night - darkness and no glasses is a recipe for destruction). I keep my computer on, run the AC in the summer (you'll be happy to know that my thermostat does not go below 22 however - and in the winter I advocate turning down the heat), but I recycle. I don't leave my car idling. I even rented a Prius when I was in Florida for my wedding (they'd be a kick ass car with a little more trunk space - though it took me ten minutes to figure out how to start the bloody thing). But I see no need to go extreme-environmentalist. I like meat. I like Strawberries, even in winter. And as preachy as Al Gore is, I'm not easily swayed by random facts and figures. I'm not swayed by blanket statements like "the world is getting warmer" (it's been steady and/or cooling since 2003). There are questions I want answered (for example most weather stations are located in urban areas, where as 50 years ago they were more balanced between urban and rural and urban areas are heat-sinks that could be skewing results heavily) and outright lies I dislike being told (like the one that says the 90's were the hottest decade of the 20th century - it was actually the 30's). Don't get me wrong. I don't advocate wanton recklessness with resources. I'm not suggesting the city of Toronto should build ten more coal powered plants to boost its electrical capacity so I can try and chill my deck in the summer. I just don't advocate wanton paranoia and ignorance of facts either. |
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Post by franko on Apr 23, 2008 15:46:44 GMT -5
Hey, TNG . . . I don't think that H&C is an enviro-nut (here I am, name-calling) . . . just a concerned citizen of the earth asking "can we do anything". We can. A better question is "will we?".
And I'm the anti-SUV guy . . .
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Post by habmeister on Apr 23, 2008 17:05:09 GMT -5
Hey, TNG . . . I don't think that H&C is an enviro-nut (here I am, name-calling) . . . just a concerned citizen of the earth asking "can we do anything". We can. A better question is "will we?". And I'm the anti-SUV guy . . . me and enviro nut? that's hilarious!! i hate enviro nuts, i live across from one, i almost punched her out when she said because i have a car i basically am an ass. what have i done recently? i bought a bike, i use that in the neighbourhood, yesterday i got a basket for the front of it. you know what the best part of riding this bike is? i get exercise!! i'm also seriously thinking of getting a scooter as i don't use my car that much. i've been all over europe and thailand and never saw these SUV's that we have here. i dont' get how these europeans can get around in their cars, but we need these big ass trucks. oh well, the oil prices hopefully will continue to rise, i'd like to see them hit $200/barrel, that will be interesting to watch. my best friend owns an SUV. i've never once seen him show any concern for the environment at all, he just wants to be a billionairre, i don't judge him, he can do what he wants. what i don't like is when people will argue about "facts" in which none of us have any idea as we're not scientists. the only things i can say is what i read and what i see, there are 1000x more articles and stories about bad things we're doing than good. i never really cared about or thought about the environment until the last couple of years. what i do on a daily basis, that is all i can control. whether we like it or not this isn't going to go away, it's only going to get worse, a whole heckuva a lot worse, and the environuts will eventually outnumber the rest. that is going to be a scary world to live in, hmmm maybe we'll go back to one parent working, growing a lot of our own food, and spending more time with our families walking and enjoying nature and getting some exercise. just think of the energy saved by all those tv's being switched off alone!! |
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Post by habmeister on Apr 23, 2008 17:13:31 GMT -5
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Apr 23, 2008 19:03:08 GMT -5
Hey, TNG . . . I don't think that H&C is an enviro-nut (here I am, name-calling) . . . just a concerned citizen of the earth asking "can we do anything". We can. A better question is "will we?". And I'm the anti-SUV guy . . . When I served in German with the forces, I found there was a huge difference between how we went about selecting our sites for deployment. In Germany, we were financially responsible for any and all maneuver damage we caused. This included taking strips of bark off of trees, knocking over bushes and shrubs, and even for running over a chicken. The Germans were paid very handsomely for any maneuver damage sustained; upwards of DM1500 per tree in some cases (Heaven help us if we set up in a tree nursery). And as far as the chicken is concerned, we were responsible not only for the chicken but how many eggs that hen might laid during its lifetime. Go figure the cost of that! However, when I returned home and went on maneuvers in Canada, no one really gave a rats butt about how you got into location or, more specifically, how much damage you caused, while getting in there. There were snapped bows, huge strips of bark and deep tire tracks running through the property. When we left, we left things hanging, so to speak. In Germany, the engineers were always there to fill in the ruts completely after we had left before any livestock broke legs trying to walk through it. Yes, we'd be responsible for them as well. When I got back home, we, ourselves, filled in the ruts the best we could with our shovels before leaving. If it wasn't done to the owner's satisfaction the reconnaissance crew would be back with dirt and shovels. Many countries in Europe really take their environmental protection seriously. More so when they can soak foreigners for it (and rightly so). Here in Canada I think there's a consciousness towards it, but not to the degree as in Europe. We've put sweaters on the odd time here in the house during the winter; even on some of those dank, rainy days. Our thermostat is programmable, so it's down to about 18 at night. Our temperature rarely goes above 22/23. In the summer, the furnace is turned off. However, overseas I find that houses are built a lot better. Granted, the part of Germany we lived in wasn't all that cold, or not as cold as in Canada at least. But, the Germans are very conscious about the measures they take to save electricity, heat and water. And another area they blow us away is recycling. They recycle everything. When we first came home from overseas, we'd put everything recyclable into the blue bins only to find a nasty note from the city saying they didn't recycle some of the items we left in there. And it wasn't just a nice friendly reminder, it was a snotty note. It's a bit better nowadays in that we recycle much more. However, we've got a long way to go to match the Europeans. Cheers. |
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Post by Cranky on Apr 23, 2008 20:01:10 GMT -5
if cleaning up the earth meant more prosperity and more money for everyone there would be NO ARGUMENT, the only people who argue against it are ones that fear they may not be able to continue to live the same lifestyle. their children and grand-children will clean up their mess, hopefully we won't have passed the point of no return. what's that you say MC habber millions of pounds of garbage in the ocean? don't worry about it, it'll sort itself out, eventually those polar bears will learn to recycle properly up there, has nothing to do with us humans. it's only nature to pull fossil fuels out of the ground and burn it into the atmosphere, if we weren't here the monkeys would be doing it, we just beat them to it with our opposable thumbs. I wonder if you see what you're problem is H&C. You're paint us all with the same brush. Your automatically assuming that, since we don't necessarily believe in the myth/fact of global warming that we simply don't care about the environment. Untrue. I don't think even the most polemic of us in this space would say it's a terribly wise idea to continue to dump tonnes of garbage into the sea. Nor would any say "hm... let's go contaminate our lakes and streams with mercury". What I'm against, personally, is the endless crusade of tree-huggers who use your mentality. You're either extremist, or your against us. Well you know what? I drive an SUV (a light SUV mind you, but an SUV none-the-less) to work every day. In the mornings it's empty. Why do I drive an SUV? Because my wife feels safer in one (4-wheel drive in the snow and ice, dont'cha know) and I can't afford to own two cars. Does that make me horrible? Guilty of some crime against the earth? I don't think so. For my wife it's piece of mind. For me it's economics. For the record, my first three years in T.O. I was a user of the TTC (or a slave to - I'm not sure which). But, quite frankly, aside from the fact I get an extra half-hour's sleep in the morning, and an extra hour with my wife in the evenings (the difference has to do with bus schedules) - well, let me tell you. It may be one thing waiting for the bus in Vancouver in the winter, it's a whole 'nother story waiting for it in Toronto. And summer's not much better - for someone who finds 15 degrees balmy, Toronto summers are a killer. By the way, now that you've already judged - does it matter that on the way home I carpool with someone (when I can)? Yup, that's me - the SUV driving maniac who carpools with other people (and not just because I pity people waiting for the bus). Most of us don't want the extremist lifestyle that some choose to lead - and I've yet to see any evidence which suggests that I need to change my ways. I turn out the lights behind me (except for the bathroom light at night - darkness and no glasses is a recipe for destruction). I keep my computer on, run the AC in the summer (you'll be happy to know that my thermostat does not go below 22 however - and in the winter I advocate turning down the heat), but I recycle. I don't leave my car idling. I even rented a Prius when I was in Florida for my wedding (they'd be a kick ass car with a little more trunk space - though it took me ten minutes to figure out how to start the bloody thing). But I see no need to go extreme-environmentalist. I like meat. I like Strawberries, even in winter. And as preachy as Al Gore is, I'm not easily swayed by random facts and figures. I'm not swayed by blanket statements like "the world is getting warmer" (it's been steady and/or cooling since 2003). There are questions I want answered (for example most weather stations are located in urban areas, where as 50 years ago they were more balanced between urban and rural and urban areas are heat-sinks that could be skewing results heavily) and outright lies I dislike being told (like the one that says the 90's were the hottest decade of the 20th century - it was actually the 30's). Don't get me wrong. I don't advocate wanton recklessness with resources. I'm not suggesting the city of Toronto should build ten more coal powered plants to boost its electrical capacity so I can try and chill my deck in the summer. I just don't advocate wanton paranoia and ignorance of facts either. BINGO! It seems that if one does not conform to the extrimist view then one is a eco-criminal. The example I gave previously is of my two nieces. They have four cars in their family and yet they yelp about how "humans are destroying the planet". They will take their cars to drive five blocks to Starbucks and think nothing off it, yet they can't wait to join the next protest. These are not teens we are talking about, these are mid twenties woman who are "finding themselves" and "deciding on a career". In the meantime they are professional students. Further.... Not a single person in here has EVER argued FOR pollution. I am as hard line as it comes against this "human caused climate changes" malarkey and yet absolutely support pollution controls on cars and businesses. What I can not support and will NEVER support is self serving and righteous agendas masquerading as real issues. BTW, since you brought up Al Gore. He pisses on oil companies and call them dinosaurs while pimping "enviro mentally responsible" companies...but fails to mention that he has financial interest in them. One has to admire him as the best snake oil salesman that ever lived. He is the biggest fraud on the planet and yet people pay him $200,000 a night to hear him. |
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Post by Skilly on Apr 23, 2008 20:30:27 GMT -5
1. Leave your car at home for a day (or a week or a month) and try walking or biking. If work is too far away to walk, take public transit or carpool. One city bus eliminates the emissions of 40 cars. Not possible for everyone. I live 10 kms from work, I'd have to walk 5 kms to get to the nearest bus stop. Every try walking and waiting for a bus in St. John's, in winter .... we aren't the snowiest city in Canada for nothing. Carpooling is fine, if someone you work with lives close by .... unfortunately they don't. So I am forced to use my mini-van. Lights get turned off .. the computer most times. Most of my appliances are either less than 5 years old, or in the process of being changed - wife has been on me about a new dishwasher for years now. Livestock production? If we eat less meat, doesn't that mean their will be more animals producing those gasses? Can't be done. Do you want to know why their is an obesity epidemic in this country? Because organic/healthy foods cost 5 times as much as crap food. People live on hot dogs and french fries because it is all they can afford, then send their children to school hungry. Thats the crime in this country. Maybe if healthy food was affordable. Maybe we should be petitioning the governments to subsidize/make foods more affordable. Oil prices affect everything, inclusing food costs. I know you are single, but I have to buy fruits and vegetables (and other healthy choices) for 4 people. My average grocery bill is about 250 dollars every two weeks. Almost half of that 80-100 dollars is spent on fruits, vegetables and milk. Now how do we expect a single mom to do that ..... Being done ... once I get off my arse and build it for the wife (the gardener of the family) Don't do it enough ... why? Because to turn the car on burns more of that expensive gas than to keep it idling. I really dont get this one ... set your thermostat above room temp in the summer? Well that would make my house unbearable to live in. In the summer, my thermostat gets set to practically zero. I have a sun roof and that heats the house. I have programmable thermostats and they get programmed in the winters to turn on 1 hour before waking up, to turn down to 18 after we leave ...and to turn back on (go up to 22) one hour before we come home. My heat bill in the winters is almost $400 ... in the summer is is under $100. Everyone will be forced to do this anyway ... incandescents will be banned. My house is about 80% switched now. Recycling is the easiest thing everyone can do ... but again our governments (all levels) could make this alot easier. First by making it mandatory to recycle to use the dumps (St. John's is leaning that way) and by providing bins. I recycling for the most part - not always. And it is usually for a charity (local firehall, schools) |
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Post by Skilly on Apr 23, 2008 20:38:05 GMT -5
what i don't like is when people will argue about "facts" in which none of us have any idea as we're not scientists. the only things i can say is what i read and what i see, there are 1000x more articles and stories about bad things we're doing than good. i never really cared about or thought about the environment until the last couple of years. And people on the other side of the coin do not like "facts" being spewed like 2002 was the hottest year ever. It wasn't. It was in the 1930's. In your 10 step post, you yourself used alot of "facts" .... so why can you quote facts, but rebutals can't? The problem with "scientists" is that they are paid and used to support an agenda. Al Gore is not going to quote a scientist that disagrees with him (such as the Russian scientist who recently stated the world is starting to cool) ..... no one knows who to trust. Why is one scientist more believable than another? Thousands of scientists thought the world was flat, thousands of scientists thought the sun revolved around the earth ... but it only took one to prove them wrong. |
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Post by habmeister on Apr 23, 2008 20:58:14 GMT -5
for Skilly thanks for trying and being conscious! 1. 10km bike ride takes about hmmm 30 minutes via bike. how long does it take you to drive? i actually starting riding my bike to work gm place, it takes 15 mins via car, 20-25 via bike, best part is no parking fees/stress/traffic/burns calories/gas and it's free! i also discovered when i meet a friend downtown for lunch last summer that if i ride my bike, especially to the yuppy yaletown i can get there in 10 mins, about 2 mins slower than driving (no lights to stop at) and i can get 2-3 glasses of wine and ride my bike home. i know technically it's not legal to ride my bike over .08, but i ain't never seen a road block for it, and if i run into a family of 4 it's only my own face that is going to get crunched. i highly recommend getting bikes for your whole family, amazing how much fun they are! 2. good for you 3. if we aren't eating as much meat then there won't be as many cows needed, supply and demand ya know. i'm not a vegetarian, at all, but i rarely eat red meat anymore, maybe 2 steaks/month, had nothing to do with enviro and everything to do with the fact that i like seafood and chicken better and they're healthier for me. it was an easy choice. when i eat a steak now it feels like a ball in my stomach. 4. don't know about where you live, but organic food here is maybe about 20% more, i have 3 within a 5 minute bike ride of my house, but then again i live in hippy central kitsilano. 5. good for you, i remember we had one when i was young, and i think a lot of people did, then my dad for some reason tore it down, don't know why. i haven't seen one since then, what happened to all of them? 6. i didn't make this list of 10 things to do, but you're saying it burns more to turn it on, but in the earth article it says over 10 seconds = less fuel being burned, so i'm assuming that's based on something hopefully correct. 7. i think they're assuming skilly that if you set it above 22 then your AC won't kick in until it reaches that point, in our case we have heat only so you're right just turn it off, i already have here in vancouver  8. i have too, what i find really funny is the earth lady across the way has an incandescent on her porch, i want to go over one night and put a dead one in and see what she replaces it with 9. i think i can recycle more too, us rich westerners have to do our part, because they sure as heck aren't doing it in thailand, they just burn it, all of it, including plastic and send it into the atmosphere |
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