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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on May 23, 2008 22:15:29 GMT -5
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Post by jkr on May 25, 2008 5:10:39 GMT -5
I just can't watch this stuff. I don't understand it but I also don't understand boxing.
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Post by cigarviper on May 25, 2008 15:10:33 GMT -5
Not my cup of tea, but, you have to admire the sheer brutality of it, if that makes any sense.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on May 26, 2008 8:27:31 GMT -5
UFC and Texas Hold 'em Poker ... possibly the two most popular things on the planet right now.
Professional boxing pretty much killed itself but the emergence of Ultimate Fighting didn't help its cause either.
Texas Hold 'em is being played to death on TV now. I can only watch so much of it.
Too bad about the thread. I also posted this on a private board elsewhere. It turned out to be a pretty good discussion. There were people who thought it to be brutal and others who followed UFC religiously. A few in between as well.
But, I also got the impression that there are others on that board who didn't mind it so much, but didn't want to be known as someone who endorsed it.
Pretty much the same everywhere nowadays I reckon.
Cheers.
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Post by Polarice on May 26, 2008 8:55:59 GMT -5
I've been fighting MMA for the last little while, no professional fights...yet, maybe this winter.
MMA gets a bad rap, its not as bad as boxing, (which it did for over 5 years) I've yet to be hurt doing MMA. They call boxing the sweet science, but it has nothing on MMA. The amount of strategy in MMA involved is very underrated.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on May 26, 2008 9:42:55 GMT -5
I've been fighting MMA for the last little while, no professional fights...yet, maybe this winter. MMA gets a bad rap, its not as bad as boxing, (which it did for over 5 years) I've yet to be hurt doing MMA. They call boxing the sweet science, but it has nothing on MMA. The amount of strategy in MMA involved is very underrated. I was in judo for the two years I lived in Charlottetown. I only made it to the orange belt level. The standards were pretty high and I remember heading home twice a week feeling pretty banged up. I thought I deserved more of an opportunity in achieving more belts, but as my sensei told me, it wasn't about the belts. Well, at 26/27 years of age I begged to differ. I didn't know what he was talking about until I went up against a younger guy who had just returned to the club after a year's absence. He was a green belt and much younger than me. He looked pretty confident taking on a yellow belt and it wasn't until this point that I knew what my sensei was talking about. I knew if stayed up long enough I'd probably be tossed around like a rag doll, or so I thought. It was hard getting this guy on the mat but once he was I had the advantage and managed to pin him for 30 seconds. He learned from that but I got a lot of benefit from that because it showed me where our club's standards were set. Conversely, there are clubs out there that either invent new levels of belts or give belts out like candy. This guy had only been out of judo for a year and I was able to pin him. I came close to doing it afterwards but I never beat him again. I gave up judo when I moved overseas though I could have pursued it more if I wanted to. The problem for me was I had better things to do than go home and heal twice a week. Good luck in your training PI. And take even more luck if you decide to take it to the next level. It's not for everyone mate. Cheers. |
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Post by Polarice on May 26, 2008 10:41:54 GMT -5
I was in judo for the two years I lived in Charlottetown. I only made it to the orange belt level. The standards were pretty high and I remember heading home twice a week feeling pretty banged up. I thought I deserved more of an opportunity in achieving more belts, but as my sensei told me, it wasn't about the belts. Well, at 26/27 years of age I begged to differ. I didn't know what he was talking about until I went up against a younger guy who had just returned to the club after a year's absence. He was a green belt and much younger than me. He looked pretty confident taking on a yellow belt and it wasn't until this point that I knew what my sensei was talking about. I knew if stayed up long enough I'd probably be tossed around like a rag doll, or so I thought. It was hard getting this guy on the mat but once he was I had the advantage and managed to pin him for 30 seconds. He learned from that but I got a lot of benefit from that because it showed me where our club's standards were set. Conversely, there are clubs out there that either invent new levels of belts or give belts out like candy. This guy had only been out of judo for a year and I was able to pin him. I came close to doing it afterwards but I never beat him again. I gave up judo when I moved overseas though I could have pursued it more if I wanted to. The problem for me was I had better things to do than go home and heal twice a week. Good luck in your training PI. And take even more luck if you decide to take it to the next level. It's not for everyone mate. Cheers. LOL, I know exactly what your talking about, I was in Judo as well and my sensei was exactly the same as yours, it took me over a year to go from white to yello.  I was beating green belts in tourneys as a white belt, I even upset a black belt when I was an orange belt in an open tourney!! I learned the same thing, if you're in a Martial art just to get belts then you're in it for the wrong reason. Belts are nice and it gives you a sense of accomplishment, but its not the reason. Right now I'm taking BBJ as part of my MMA training, our club is a Gracie club and in order to get a belt you have to fly to NY for a week to get tested. Guess what, I have no belt, lol. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on May 26, 2008 11:20:52 GMT -5
LOL, I know exactly what your talking about, I was in Judo as well and my sensei was exactly the same as yours, it took me over a year to go from white to yello. Yeah, that's about right ... learning how to fall takes a while and I remember my sensei adding in the odd throw just to keep us interested. I Googled his name and see that he's now the PEI Grading Board Chairperson. I'll never forget him as he's the only person I've met with a movable clavical. During the Canadian Championships in Edmonton (don't know what year) he said he got caught "coming in." When he woke up later, he was in the hospital, sitting upright and staring at at his clavical that had broken through his skin. He said he was fortunate to have had the surgeon of the Edmonton Eskimos looking after him, because he probably wouldn't have been operated on properly had the tournament been held on PEI (his own words. I guess PEI didn't have the experience in severe sports injuries). Gosh, I never got to that level of competition. We simply didn't have the participation in Charlottetown back then. However, they used to pair me up with the club's sole brown belt named, get this ... Rocky C ... he was 19 at the time and was heading to Laval for a degree in Art (or whatever the degree is called, he was an excellent artist), but it also happened that our National Team trained at Laval back then also. This was his primary motivation for going to Laval. He was going for his black belt test soon and they needed someone who knew how to fall properly ... que c'était moi je suppose ... for the next 40 minutes I demonstrated to my sensei how to land regardless of the throw. Still didn't earn me a chance at my next belt, which at that point would have been yellow. Being a Gracie club I guess there's a fair amount of training dedicated to grappling, no? I remember watching Ultimate Fighting a few years back and this is what Gracie was noted for. If he got you on the mat it might have taken a while, but ultimately you were finished. At the same time I knew I had chance at winning a practice tussle if I was able to bring my opponent down to the mat. I won a few, lost a few but at least I had a better chance. And grappling takes a lot out of you man. Zonked at the end of the night. Cheers. |
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Post by Polarice on May 26, 2008 12:31:53 GMT -5
Being a Gracie club I guess there's a fair amount of training dedicated to grappling, no? I remember watching Ultimate Fighting a few years back and this is what Gracie was noted for. If he got you on the mat it might have taken a while, but ultimately you were finished. At the same time I knew I had chance at winning a practice tussle if I was able to bring my opponent down to the mat. I won a few, lost a few but at least I had a better chance. And grappling takes a lot out of you man. Zonked at the end of the night. Cheers. A lot of ground work, and yes its takes a lot out of you, probably one of the hardest workouts I've had. We do kick boxing for the first hour, then we do BBJ for the second hour, by the time we're done I'm wasted!!!  |
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Post by habmeister on May 26, 2008 13:24:13 GMT -5
i've always wanted to learn a martial art, was planning on finding a place this year to start but right now got some back problems that need to be fixed first. i did box for 2 years, only sparred once and that was enough to tell me that getting hit in the head for a workout wasn't worth it. so just did the skipping, speed bag, heavy bags, etc...
i like to watch both UFC and boxing, but i have to admit for me UFC reminds me a lot of the WWF, it's entertaining and of course there is tremendous skill, but i'd have to say that the science of boxing is superior to it. i do think that boxing is more dangerous in that you can get a concussion during a match, get a standing 8 count and while your brain is jello continue to get hit over and over again.
but give me a de la hoya vs mayweather over a st.pierre vs ___ anytime. i'm sure MMA will always be around and get good ratings because it fits in with the culture today of brutal knockouts, blood and quick matches. but i'm an old timer and have loved the sweet science as long as i can remember, at least 25 years.
having said all that, i've only been to a live MMA, that was about 6 or 7 years ago, and boy oh boy was there a lot of blood. i'm not squeamish but seeing a guy get open hand slapped hard over and over again and having little cuts open up on his face until he was a mask of blood was difficult to watch.
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Post by CentreHice on May 26, 2008 13:58:03 GMT -5
I'm more than impressed with the degree of dedication it takes to become a master at any endeavour, be it the arts, sciences, sports. etc. Good luck to you, PI. The fringe benefit, of course, is that you've become your own security in many ways...not that you go looking for trouble (which would go against the MA philosophies)....but a sense of safety for you, your family, etc. has to be reassuring. I'm sure you've seen this clip....it's edited to be funny....but this is a guy I'd want on my side if things got ugly.  Bas Rutten MMA Street Defense |
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Post by Polarice on May 26, 2008 14:15:03 GMT -5
I'm more than impressed with the degree of dedication it takes to become a master at any endeavour, be it the arts, sciences, sports. etc. Good luck to you, PI. The fringe benefit, of course, is that you've become your own security in many ways...not that you go looking for trouble (which would go against the MA philosophies)....but a sense of safety for you, your family, etc. has to be reassuring. I'm sure you've seen this clip....it's edited to be funny....but this is a guy I'd want on my side if things got ugly. Bas Rutten MMA Street DefenseLOL, thats a great video!!! And yes, you do seem to gain a lot of confidence in yourself and your abilities. That's one of the reasons learning a martial art is great for children. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on May 26, 2008 14:19:28 GMT -5
i like to watch both UFC and boxing, but i have to admit for me UFC reminds me a lot of the WWF, it's entertaining and of course there is tremendous skill, I think the main differences between the two is that UFC results aren't predetermined (but who's to say) and the fighting is real. I remember going to Grand Prix Wrestling when I was younger. At one point it might have been the hottest ticket in Ottawa next to the 67's and Rough Riders. Sometimes something would go wrong in the match where one wrestler mistakenly landed a real punch to his opponent's head and then the donnybrook would ensue. The other wrestlers would dash out there because the fight had gotten real and the fight would end up in a double-disqualification. Not so in UFC. I also remember when boxing had all sorts of credibility as well. I remember in the 60's and 70's when the no one followed anything but the Heavyweight class; Ali, Frasier, Foreman, Norton only to name a few. And in the 80's we had Shawn O'Sullivan and Willie DeWitt. O'Sullivan eventually took Olympic Silver after losing to the USA's Frank Tate. But, O'Sullivan should never had got there in the first place. He was knocked around the ring by a Korean boxer in a previous fight. It was like he earned a pass. O'Sullivan's career as a pro wasn't as it was touted to be. DeWitt lost his gold medal fight to Henry Tillman; however, in contrast to O'Sullivan, it was a fight that he should have won. Even Howard Cosell commented that he had never seen a fighter carry a fight like that only to lose. As a professional, I feel DeWitt never had the right people backing him. He has a few lackluster fights against some no-name fighters. But, DeWitt never caught a break either. At the time it was supposedly well known that DeWitt could knock out anyone in the world, which might have been a reason he never got the chance that say, Leon Spinks, got later. I agree with you that there is an art to boxing, but IMO, guys like Mike Tyson and Don King simply ruined a once-proud sport. Nowadays, all the big fights are on pay per view or are shown a few days after on various sports channels. It's the same with UFC, don't get me wrong, but unlike pro boxing, the UFC has more credibility. One other thing that miffed me about Canadian boxing was losing Lennox Lewis to Great Britain. He moved there, got the funding, got much more support and obtained his British citizenship. I don't know if he took his cue from O'Sullivan and DeWitt, but he bolted from Canada perhaps realizing that the opportunties in Britain were far better for a professional career. I remember watching Lewis/Hollyfield 1 in a southside Ottawa pub. Lewis completely dominated the fight; destroyed Hollyfield, but it was declared a draw in the end. Lewis was visably distraught though I can't remember what Hollyfield looked like. I couldn't believe the decision. I have a biography of Muhammad Ali and in it there are quite a few photos of his fight with then-British heavyweight champion, Henry Cooper. Cooper's face was a mess and I don't know how he kept smiling. The thing is, we're going to see a lot of that in boxing, MMA or any violent sport. Even hockey I reckon. Cheers. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on May 26, 2008 14:24:25 GMT -5
I'm more than impressed with the degree of dedication it takes to become a master at any endeavour, be it the arts, sciences, sports. etc. Good luck to you, PI. The fringe benefit, of course, is that you've become your own security in many ways...not that you go looking for trouble (which would go against the MA philosophies)....but a sense of safety for you, your family, etc. has to be reassuring. I'm sure you've seen this clip....it's edited to be funny....but this is a guy I'd want on my side if things got ugly. Bas Rutten MMA Street DefenseLOL, thats a great video!!! And yes, you do seem to gain a lot of confidence in yourself and your abilities. That's one of the reasons learning a martial art is great for children. I wanted to get Dis Jr into judo or karate at a very early age. Kids are fearless in their younger years I find. But, I also find that martial arts teaches people much more than just self-defence. It gives young people increased self-esteem and respect for each other. There's always someone who knows more than you do. But, alas, Mrs Dis wouldn't buy into it. MA was for beating other kids up (further from the truth) and MA went by the wayside. One thing I found with MA ... running away is always the best defence, but with MA you learn to run with dignity. |
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Post by CrocRob on May 26, 2008 21:36:21 GMT -5
Insert "MMA is stupid" argument here.
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Post by Polarice on May 27, 2008 6:01:43 GMT -5
Insert "MMA is stupid" argument here. Why would you say that Red?.....have you ever tried to do anything physical? The Martial arts is one of the worlds most respectable activities a person can involve themselves in. |
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Post by CentreHice on May 27, 2008 7:13:27 GMT -5
The Martial Arts are rich in philosophy and discipline....hence my admiration for it.
But when MMA is put into the UFC context, doesn't it go against that philosophy? UFC's all about knocking the crap out of someone else for the bloodlu$t of the fans, isn't it? Boxing X 10.
The argument would be, once UFC isn't enough for the masses, is the next step to have the combatants use weapons?
Could we actually be moving back to when a large part of society accepted the gladiatorial arena? I certainly hope not.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on May 27, 2008 7:22:43 GMT -5
Insert "MMA is stupid" argument here. I don't follow the argument. Are you saying MMA in general is stupid, or the professional MMA circuit is stupid? Cheers. |
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Post by Polarice on May 27, 2008 7:26:07 GMT -5
The Martial Arts are rich in philosophy and discipline....hence my admiration for it. But when MMA is put into the UFC context, doesn't it go against that philosophy? UFC's all about knocking the crap out of someone else for the bloodlu$t of the fans, isn't it? Boxing X 10. The argument would be, once UFC isn't enough for the masses, is the next step to have the combatants use weapons? Could we actually be moving back to when a large part of society accepted the gladiatorial arena? I certainly hope not. Yes and No, they like the fact that it can be quite violent as the ratings go sky high, but boxing is the same. Some of the most memorable boxing matches, are also the most violent....Tyson, etc. The MMA fighters think differently than the average fan does, we're thinking strategy, what will he do, if i do this and vice versa. Its kinda like a chess match, especially after it goes to the ground. |
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Post by CentreHice on May 27, 2008 9:04:13 GMT -5
I hear you, PI.
And I really can't see weapons being used (unless illegally in the darkest corners of the world).
But I can see the day when some of these UFC fouls are removed. After all, if the demand is there, someone will $upply it.
(from Nevada State Athletic Commission, 2001)
Using the head to deliver a blow.
Using the elbow.
Attacking the opponent in the groin (attacks to the groin with knee kicks or hand techniques shall be considered as low-blows and will be ruled as fouls).
Using techniques from wrestling or judo such as throwing or submission techniques.
Thumbing, choking or biting on the opponent.
Attacking the opponent while he is down or in the process of getting up.
Attacking the opponent while the referee is intervening to separate the fighters.
Holding the ropes to attack the opponent, or to avoid the attack from the opponent.
However, this is not applicable in the situation in case the referee determines that it is inevitable to hold the ropes.
Using offensive or insulting language.
Attacking the back of the head with a punch (the side of the head and the area around the ears are not considered as the back of the head and are valid target areas).
Attempting to cause the opponent to fall out of the ring.
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Post by Polarice on May 27, 2008 9:46:25 GMT -5
I hear you, PI. And I really can't see weapons being used (unless illegally in the darkest corners of the world). But I can see the day when some of these UFC fouls are removed. After all, if the demand is there, someone will $upply it. (from Nevada State Athletic Commission, 2001) Using the head to deliver a blow. Using the elbow. Attacking the opponent in the groin (attacks to the groin with knee kicks or hand techniques shall be considered as low-blows and will be ruled as fouls). Using techniques from wrestling or judo such as throwing or submission techniques. Thumbing, choking or biting on the opponent. Attacking the opponent while he is down or in the process of getting up. Attacking the opponent while the referee is intervening to separate the fighters. Holding the ropes to attack the opponent, or to avoid the attack from the opponent. However, this is not applicable in the situation in case the referee determines that it is inevitable to hold the ropes. Using offensive or insulting language. Attacking the back of the head with a punch (the side of the head and the area around the ears are not considered as the back of the head and are valid target areas). Attempting to cause the opponent to fall out of the ring. Actually its the other way around, when the UFC started the only rule was not hitting the groin, everything else was good. But as time went on, and the need to commercialize the sport they had to start enforcing rules to protect the fighters. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on May 27, 2008 10:30:55 GMT -5
But as time went on, and the need to commercialize the sport they had to start enforcing rules to protect the fighters. Was it commercialization or just good sense I wonder? There have been fatalities in UFC on both sides of the ocean in fact. I think first time I heard of a UFC fighter killed in the ring was back in the mid-90's in a European match. I think the rules were put in place to, as you say, protect the fighters, but the unknown can happen at any time. It's hard to know what a hit to the head will do to another person. Some will drop to the canvass immediately, while others will stay on their feet and persevere (though we really don't know if they're hurt or not). But, it's not only in UFC where fatalities can happen. It happened in professional boxing a few years back. I'm going back to H&C's boxing post. I used to love professional boxing. When I was in public school and high school, boxing was extremely popular in our house. Gaétan Hart was a lightweight/welterweight boxer from Buckingham Quebec. Hart was a well-known local boxer who was doing our region proud back then. He went into the ring on 20 June 1980, where he took on Cleveland Denny for Canadian Welterweight Title. He TKO'd Denny to win the fight, but Denny eventually died 16 days later from the beating he took from Hart. Hart was never the same after that, though he did fight Aaron Pryor for the world championship in 1980. Hart was KO'd by Pryor who had an overall pro record of 39 wins (35 by KO) and 1 loss. I see now that Hart runs the Gatineau Boxing Club. It's good to see because he went into recluse for a while after killing Denny. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that so long as there's full contact sports out there we won't know if something serious happens until it's upon us. And I mean that sincerely. UFC and boxing take the brunt of the criticism (and I can see why actuall). However, what about the guys like Igor Ulanov or Scott Stevens who know how to deliberately hurt another player? What about the illegal tackling in professional rugby or Australian Rules Football? How about North American football that teaches our kids from an early age that it's a full-contact sport? I can still hear my high school football coach say, "... make sure he knows he's been hit." A lot of people love full-contact sports. It gets the juices flowing and brings out the emotions. But, there are rules to every contact sport. We simply can't predict what's going to happen. Have to run. Cheers. |
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Post by CrocRob on May 27, 2008 15:42:30 GMT -5
Insert "MMA is stupid" argument here. Why would you say that Red?.....have you ever tried to do anything physical? The Martial arts is one of the worlds most respectable activities a person can involve themselves in. I think a "sport" where kneeing a guy in the head is fair game is at a level about the same as dog fighting. These guys are professional bar fighters, and the ability to master martial arts and using it to injure others are two different things. I've got nothing against people practicing taekwando, or judo, or karate. I myself practiced it for years. Beating the **** out of someone isn't worthy of my respect. Completely hypocritically I enjoy boxing matches (and also hate hockey fights). Obviously my mind isn't made up, but boxing doesn't make me cringe the way UFC and other MMA circuits do. I find it more gentlemanly, if that makes any sense. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on May 27, 2008 17:08:00 GMT -5
Why would you say that Red?.....have you ever tried to do anything physical? The Martial arts is one of the worlds most respectable activities a person can involve themselves in. I think a "sport" where kneeing a guy in the head is fair game is at a level about the same as dog fighting. These guys are professional bar fighters, and the ability to master martial arts and using it to injure others are two different things. I've got nothing against people practicing taekwando, or judo, or karate. I myself practiced it for years. Beating the **** out of someone isn't worthy of my respect. Completely hypocritically I enjoy boxing matches (and also hate hockey fights). Obviously my mind isn't made up, but boxing doesn't make me cringe the way UFC and other MMA circuits do. I find it more gentlemanly, if that makes any sense. I think a lot of us think the same way about boxing, Red. Believe it or not Muhammad Ali was the centre of many an argument between me and Dis the Elder. He absolutely loved Ali and what he brought to the sport, but he also knew I'd take anyone but Ali. Pretty soon my mom jumped into it. She couldn't stand Ali either. But, as time went on we realized what this guy did for the sport. I can still remember the family and a few of my friends getting together to watch Ali vs Joe Bugner ... Ali vs George Foreman ... Ali vs Joe Frazier, who BTW, really wasn't Ali's enemy as Ali would have us believe (he was simply selling the sport). Then came along one of Ali's old sparring partners, Kenny Norton. And it wasn't only the heavyweight ranks that impressed. Sugar Ray Leonard totally dismantled Donny Lalonde in a beating that still stays with me to this day. Leonard was a showboat but he, too, sold the sport very well. How about the feud between Thomas Hearns and Marvin Haggler? Awesome fights. It's too bad we don't have an Ali for boxing today. IMO, the sport has been ruined a lot by Don King, himself. I honestly believe that King was responsible for Mike Tyson's fall from the pro ranks. Tyson could have been the standard by which boxers would be measured, but after he made it known he wouldn't be re-signing with King, King ruined him. And with no mentor Tyson is still reeling from his fall. Again, only IMO, we're losing the boxers that kept the sport interesting. Pound for pound, Michael Moorer was probably the best boxer of his time. He's what now? 40 years old? And while I hate losing Lennox Lewis to Great Britain, he did win an Olympic gold medal for Canada. I used to watch him on "Sky Sports" in Germany when he was well on his way to being someone special. All that said, boxing sorely misses fighters like the one's we just talked about. Even Tyson was great in the beginning. He was humble in victory, praised his opponents for their efforts and was on his way to being the woild champeen.So now, a lot of younger people are idolizing a new generation of champions, though in the UFC circuit. A lot of them would rather watch Texas Hold 'em Poker than pay for the privilege of watching boxing. Cheers. |
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Post by Polarice on May 28, 2008 5:39:18 GMT -5
Why would you say that Red?.....have you ever tried to do anything physical? The Martial arts is one of the worlds most respectable activities a person can involve themselves in. I think a "sport" where kneeing a guy in the head is fair game is at a level about the same as dog fighting. These guys are professional bar fighters, and the ability to master martial arts and using it to injure others are two different things. I've got nothing against people practicing taekwando, or judo, or karate. I myself practiced it for years. Beating the **** out of someone isn't worthy of my respect. Completely hypocritically I enjoy boxing matches (and also hate hockey fights). Obviously my mind isn't made up, but boxing doesn't make me cringe the way UFC and other MMA circuits do. I find it more gentlemanly, if that makes any sense. Thats fair, but calling them professional bar fights is a bit off. Yes there are guys like Kimbo and Tank Abbott, but they are a rarity, and they don't fight any one who is trained in MA. But I see your point, although I don't agree with it.  |
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Post by clear observer on May 28, 2008 11:48:09 GMT -5
...what about the guys like Igor Ulanov or Scott Stevens who know how to deliberately hurt another player? What about the illegal tackling in professional rugby or Australian Rules Football? How about North American football that teaches our kids from an early age that it's a full-contact sport? I can still hear my high school football coach say, "... make sure he knows he's been hit." A lot of people love full-contact sports. It gets the juices flowing and brings out the emotions. But, there are rules to every contact sport. We simply can't predict what's going to happen. Have to run. Cheers. Not sure those are good comparables, Dis. The SOLE method in a sport? such as boxing/UFC in capturing victory is to score by physically laying a beating to your opponent; intentionally and legally injuring them. Knocking an opponent out cold is rewarded with an automatic injury. Acts of this type of aggression are penalized in ARF/NAF as well as in most other professional sports. Regardless, UFC does cater to a human being's curiousity, in the barbaric sense. While I enjoy boxing very-much so, the same cannot be said of UFC/Pride fighting. p.s. UFC rules, as approved by the Nevada State Athletic Commission - July 23, 2001 Article 7 AUTHORIZED FIGHTING TECHNIQUES The following fighting techniques are authorized. Punches: Straight punches, hooks, uppers, and backspin blows. Kicks: Front kicks, low kicks, middle kicks, high kicks, side kicks, back kicks, inner thigh kicks, jumping kicks, and knee kicks. The following restrictions apply to the use of the backspin blow. (a) The authorized area of contact for the backspin blow shall be the area of the glove where it bends at the wrist and beyond to the tip of the glove. (b) If an area other than the authorized area of contact hits and injures the opponent by accident, Article 12, sub-article 3 shall apply. Article 8 FOUL TECHNIQUES A fighter who executes a foul technique shall be penalized with a caution, warning, or a point reduction. Two (2) cautions shall lead to one (1) warning for the first two (2) cautions; however, a warning shall be given for any cautions thereafter. Two (2) warnings shall lead to a point reduction, and three (3) point reductions in one (1) round shall be grounds for disqualification. This clause shall not apply in cases where the judges rule that the foul technique as unintentional. (a) The following are defined as fouls: Using the head to deliver a blow. Using the elbow. Attacking the opponent in the groin (attacks to the groin with knee kicks or hand techniques shall be considered as low-blows and will be ruled as fouls). Using techniques from wrestling or judo such as throwing or submission techniques. Thumbing, choking or biting on the opponent. Attacking the opponent while he is down or in the process of getting up. Attacking the opponent while the referee is intervening to separate the fighters. Holding the ropes to attack the opponent, or to avoid the attack from the opponent. However, this is not applicable in the situation in case the referee determines that it is inevitable to hold the ropes. Using offensive or insulting language. Attacking the back of the head with a punch (the side of the head and the area around the ears are not considered as the back of the head and are valid target areas). Attempting to cause the opponent to fall out of the ring. Voluntarily exiting the ring during the course of a match. (b) A point reduction may be given immediately to a fighter if the judges find that a foul technique was inflicted with malicious intent. (c) A caution shall be given to a fighter who repeatedly charges inside the opponent's arms, with his head held low (ie. to avoid attack). This shall be considered as inducing a head-butt. In case that either of the fighters gets cut from a head-butt and is bleeding, the fighter who has caused the other to get cut shall receive a one (1) point reduction, even if the head-butt was not intentional. However, if the referee finds the head-butt to have been intentional, a reduction of two (2) points shall be given. If both fighters get cut and are bleeding, a one (1) point reduction shall be given to each fighter. (d) A caution, warning, and a point reduction shall be given to a fighter who repeatedly uses holds and clinches that are not accompanied by attacks, and are judged as being defensive/passive in nature (ie. to avoid attack). The same applies to grasping and holding the opponent immediately after launching an attack (ie. to avoid a counter-attack) and may also result in a point reduction. Two (2) cautions will sum up to one (1) warning, and the next caution shall be a deduction of one (1) point. This particular caution shall be counted separately and not cumulative with other cautions. (f) Continuously holding the kicking leg of an opponent is judged as a foul. However, a single attack, while holding the leg is authorized. Continuous attack while holding a leg is a foul. If a fighter does not take any action while holding the kicking leg, the referee shall call a break. Holding the kicking leg and using a throwing technique is also a foul. Article 9 DISQUALIFICATION A fighter shall be disqualified when: A fighter intentionally uses a foul technique. A fighter fails to follow the referee's instructions during a match. A fighter is late for a match or does not show up at all. A fighter exhibits ill-mannered behavior or a malicious attitude during a match. The referee determines that a fighter does not have the will to fight. When a fighter receives three (3) point reductions within one (1) round, counting two (2) warnings as one (1) point reduction. The official physician deems a fighter unfit to fight as a result of a medical check. A corner man has entered in the ring or touched one of the fighters during the match. A fighter is found to have broken other rules. Article 10 In accordance with Article 5-4.(d), where a fighter is overwhelmingly superior to his opponent, the referee has the option to stop the fight and declare a victory for the superior fighter before the end of the match. Article 11 If a fighter is injured, the judges and the official physician shall confer to decide whether the fight shall continue or not. The official physician shall not give any treatment to the injured area during the course of the match. |
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Post by Doc Holliday on May 28, 2008 12:04:21 GMT -5
In many cases UFC have ventured away from the great values taught in martial arts. Beating a guy semi-unconscious to a pulp isn't what I personally consider a respectful and artful combat between worthy opponents. As well, many fighters simply look and act like total freaks on acid looking for blood.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on May 28, 2008 12:53:42 GMT -5
...what about the guys like Igor Ulanov or Scott Stevens who know how to deliberately hurt another player? What about the illegal tackling in professional rugby or Australian Rules Football? How about North American football that teaches our kids from an early age that it's a full-contact sport? I can still hear my high school football coach say, "... make sure he knows he's been hit." A lot of people love full-contact sports. It gets the juices flowing and brings out the emotions. But, there are rules to every contact sport. We simply can't predict what's going to happen. Have to run. Cheers. Not sure those are good comparables, Dis. The SOLE method in a sport? such as boxing/UFC in capturing victory is to score by physically laying a beating to your opponent; intentionally and legally injuring them. Knocking an opponent out cold is rewarded with an automatic injury. Acts of this type of aggression are penalized in ARF/NAF as well as in most other professional sports. True, but contact sports themselves can be construed as violent, no? And boxing doesn't? I can buy the pro sports/UFC comparision to a degree CO (in principle hitting is hitting is hitting), but boxing can be just as brutal as UFC, as you've alluded to. We can argue that one is a gentleman's sport and the other not so much, but the objective of both UFC and boxing is to overwhelm and devistate your opponent, IMO. Going into either without that attitude, IMO, is a recipe for suicide. Regardless of the rules to each, people have been killed in both sports and there will be more. When I was growing up we, as kids, knew all of the top boxers by name. It was the heavyweight division and nothing else. Roberto Duran was well known but he wasn't a heavyweight and we didn't any make time to watch his fights. Nowadays, I couldn't tell you who those boxers are. There's no humility left in boxing thanks largely to Don King and Mike Tyson. You know yourself, in the beginning Tyson was a top-drawing card because of his potential. At the end he was a draw because of the controversy surrounding him. I enjoyed watching him ascend to the top of the boxing world but later I couldn't wait to see him leave. As for UFC, I don't know any fighters other than Randy Couture and Georges St Pierre. They're the two names I've heard the most and that's about it. I don't buy pay-per-view and don't go to pubs to see UFC (or boxing anymore). If I happen to pass it while surfing I might tune in if there's nothing else on, and that could be anything from "Digging for the Truth" to a rerun of "All in the Family." It wasn't like that for boxing when I was growing up. If one of the big-name heavyweights was fighting, the whole block would tune in. Not like that for UFC ... at least not in our generation anyway. Cheers. |
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