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Post by franko on Jun 16, 2008 14:36:10 GMT -5
So . . . in order to curb global warming/climate change/what ever it is called today, we need to change what we do in order to be nicer to the world we live in . . . like buying more energy-efficient vehicles (OK, I get that) and driving (if we are going to drive) vehicles that are not petroleum based . . . using, for example, biodiesel. However . . . Ethiopians use teff to make their staple food, injera (a kind of large, sour, pancake). Fueled mainly by demand for ethanol and biodiesel, global grain prices have risen dramatically in the past several years. In the past two years, the price of teff has tripled. This is bad news for the millions of Ethiopians who live in fragile economic situations. Why? Because while food prices have increased, wages have stayed the same. I guess if we are sending money to them through carbon taxes it'll all be OK, right? Except they still won't have food to buy!Most of us in Canada have absorbed the increase in grain and grain-fed products without much notice. But, for my students, who all live on less than $3 per day, many were being forced to choose between paying for teff, rent, or school fees. While we North Americans may think that producing fuel from grain is a good thing because it helps our environment, we also need to count the cost that this strategy has on the poor. The media has become saturated with stories about the need to reduce our carbon emissions. We don’t hear much about how our strategies may force some people deeper into poverty and hunger. moreAnd yes, it is a religious/church-based article . . . and yes, the church does bear some of the blame for what happens/ed . . . but it is no less true that a lot of the problems in the world stem from our materialistic way of living. |
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Post by CrocRob on Jun 16, 2008 15:46:58 GMT -5
Just to be clear, is this intended to be (another.. sigh) global warming thread, or an ethanol thread?
Ethanol is a stupid solution, and makes no sense. Even if we converted our entire grain production to ethanol production, we wouldn't be able to satisfy our own demand. And yes, it increases the price of grain.
I think it's interesting that they threw biodiesel in there though, when biodiesel conventionally doesn't use unprocessed grains.
However, frankly that Ethiopians find it more difficult to purchase grain isn't a reason not to use it if it were a sensible solution for Canada.
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Post by HABsurd on Jun 16, 2008 16:30:17 GMT -5
Just to be clear, is this intended to be (another.. sigh) global warming thread, or an ethanol thread? Ethanol is a stupid solution, and makes no sense. Even if we converted our entire grain production to ethanol production, we wouldn't be able to satisfy our own demand. And yes, it increases the price of grain. I think it's interesting that they threw biodiesel in there though, when biodiesel conventionally doesn't use unprocessed grains. However, frankly that Ethiopians find it more difficult to purchase grain isn't a reason not to use it if it were a sensible solution for Canada. I think here is something we can all agree on. Making ethanol from sugar cane doesn't make sense and even less so to make it from corn. What started as a pandering brain dead farm subsidy has morphed into a pandering brain dead climate change solution. Politicians are so imaginative. |
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Post by cigarviper on Jun 16, 2008 16:35:26 GMT -5
A guy at work today told me of a friend of his that was backpacking through Pakistan years ago who awoke with a terrible tooth ache one day. The ony medical treatment facility around was a dumpy little shack in the sticks with no dental equipment. They proceeded to give him a quasi root canal using battery acid to kill the root. Pain gone.
This has nothing to do with this thread, I just thought I'd share this general interest story.
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Post by jkr on Jun 16, 2008 16:56:38 GMT -5
A guy at work today told me of a friend of his that was backpacking through Pakistan years ago who awoke with a terrible tooth ache one day. The ony medical treatment facility around was a dumpy little shack in the sticks with no dental equipment. They proceeded to give him a quasi root canal using battery acid to kill the root. Pain gone. This has nothing to do with this thread, I just thought I'd share this general interest story. Reminds me of a story I read on CNN last year. People in Britain that had no dental insurance had resorted to pulling their own teeth. Boy have we rerouted this thread big time. Sorry guys.  |
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Post by franko on Jun 16, 2008 19:11:51 GMT -5
Boy have we rerouted this thread big time. Sorry guys. Back on task, gentlemen, back on task. And be honest – you weren’t in the least bit sorry! Just to be clear, is this intended to be (another.. sigh) global warming thread, or an ethanol thread? I think a thread on the human condition . . . which will morph into either a global warming thread or a Ryder thread. Which speaks to human condition: I’ll do something as long as it doesn’t affect me; if it does, too bad for them. Maybe I’m taking what you are saying to an extreme . . . and here’s the bleeding heart part of me pushing through . . . but we are indeed part of a collective on this place called earth, and we are somewhat (I said somewhat, HA responsible for each other’s well-fare. |
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Post by CrocRob on Jun 16, 2008 19:54:24 GMT -5
Boy have we rerouted this thread big time. Sorry guys. Back on task, gentlemen, back on task. And be honest – you weren’t in the least bit sorry! I think a thread on the human condition . . . which will morph into either a global warming thread or a Ryder thread. Which speaks to human condition: I’ll do something as long as it doesn’t affect me; if it does, too bad for them. Maybe I’m taking what you are saying to an extreme . . . and here’s the bleeding heart part of me pushing through . . . but we are indeed part of a collective on this place called earth, and we are somewhat (I said somewhat, HA responsible for each other’s well-fare. So if you're for redistributing wealth to poorer nations, why are you continually against any tax that might be passed onto the Canadian consumer? Specifically relating to carbon taxes on businesses that might (probably will) end up out of our pockets, the money that's supposed to be used to redistribute wealth to poorer nations. Against redistribution under a guise, but for it under no pretense? I'm not attacking you here, just trying to understand your position. In another thread you stated (in reference to Dion and Layton, but I'm taking the general thought here) do they think we are stupid? [yes they do and yes we are]." I agree. They think we're dumb, and as a collective, human beings are fantastically stupid. I'm all for plans that get the job done under whatever pretense is needed for it to pass through our collective (Canadian) stomachs, so long as the end result suits some actual need. Telling people the truth just isn't how you get them to act (if I ever run for political office, don't vote for me.. haha). Otherwise all those Sunday afternoon infomercials showing starving bloated kids would have emptied our wallets. As much as we are part of a collective, until the day when there's a global governing body that feels like doing some governing (which the UN doesn't do), the price of grain in Ethiopia doesn't get my consideration because whatever money goes there should be spent in a manner to suit economic development, which it often isn't in Africa. Send my money to poor nations, I don't care, but at least make sure it will be spent appropriately. Hmm.. I didn't mean to ramble. Not sure how to clean it up. Oh, and Higgins is a way better Ethanol producer than Ryder, especially when it comes to liters produced per minute of icetime. ;D |
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Post by franko on Jun 16, 2008 21:27:04 GMT -5
So if you're for redistributing wealth to poorer nations, why are you continually against any tax that might be passed onto the Canadian consumer? Actually, I’m not in favour of redistributing wealth – something either got lost in the translation or the transcription. I am, however, aware that everything that I may affect someone else, and must therefore be careful how much of a negative affect I make on others. So I must look at the situation and find some sort of balance; if there is no balance, then decide whether or not I can in good conscience act in a way that drastically affects them (“affect” three times in two sentences? Where’s my thesaurus?). In this situation: my using an ethanol blend takes food from the table of someone else, so I will continue to use a petroleum based product to power my vehicle . . . and hope that someone will come up with better technology. I have a philosophical difficulty with the whole carbon tax thing. First, the tax does nothing to help cure the problem of global whatever. Second, the redistribution excludes some of the worst problem-causers. Third, I doubt very much whether the money will make it very far down the chain and make a difference for the ones in need. Money will be redistributed from government agency to government agency . . . and we all know how well governments are with money that isn’t theirs. I’m mulling over this. I want there to be actual results. Not sure how far I’d take the pretense. Truth. Something defined by each person with an agenda. But really . . . who wants to hear the truth? and the global governing body will have an agenda that not everyone will agree with; then comes the revolution; then comes . . . Exactly. Wot? Accountability? I think we ar not far from one another on this issue. But if Ryder was offered a better corn mix then he would produce a better product. |
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Post by Cranky on Jun 17, 2008 0:05:33 GMT -5
. . . but we are indeed part of a collective on this place called earth, and we are somewhat (I said somewhat, HA responsible for each other’s well-fare. First, it was this "global warming agnostic" thingy, now you are turning into a tree humper hugger. Clearly, I have failed you. |
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Post by franko on Jun 17, 2008 5:53:47 GMT -5
No, no, HA -- remember that I took your political test and wound up with Gandhi as my best friend?
I've always been in the middle of the road -- just hope I don't get run over!
And I'm no tree hugger -- just suggesting that we need to be careful how we use the tree -- I can build a house with it or I can burn it as firewood.
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Post by jkr on Jun 17, 2008 8:09:59 GMT -5
Boy have we rerouted this thread big time. Sorry guys. Back on task, gentlemen, back on task. And be honest – you weren’t in the least bit sorry! I think a thread on the human condition . . . which will morph into either a global warming thread or a Ryder thread. Or a home dentistry thread.  You're right - not really sorry. |
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Post by Skilly on Jun 17, 2008 11:43:58 GMT -5
I think a thread on the human condition . . . which will morph into either a global warming thread or a Ryder thread. I feel like I am perpetually stuck in an episode of South Park ..... when in doubt, Blame Canada Newfoundland.  |
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Post by The New Guy on Jun 17, 2008 14:38:37 GMT -5
I think a thread on the human condition . . . which will morph into either a global warming thread or a Ryder thread. I feel like I am perpetually stuck in an episode of South Park ..... when in doubt, Blame Canada Newfoundland. That movie was a major letdown for me. That song, however, when performed by Robin Williams at the Oscars, was hilarious. Oh, and to get things back on track... ...the current value of Oil and Oil-substitutes (including the much vaunted, really not that great Ethanol) is caused not by some ecological disaster, impending global warming or anything even remotely related to the environment. Tree-huggers and who-not like to get their jollies by seeing the folks who drive their gas-guzzlers pay through the nose to fill a tank, but the long and the short of it is that the current woe that is gas prices (and the reason why farmers are turning to ethanol and abandoning food crops) is the weakness in the American dollar. The Yankee greenback, which has been the engine of economic movement for the past three decades, is no longer the almighty dollar it once was. And everyone who once invested in the American dollar has suddenly gone 'hrm...' and decided to put their money in oil instead. Nothing to do with global warming. Nothing to do with rising demand for oil. Just our wacky economic system. And it'll fix itself not when we all go green (in fact, going green may make things worse - as you have to wonder where investors will go if demand for oil plunges) but when some stability is injected into the American economy, or some other word currency (I vote for the Canadian dollar, but more likely the Euro or the pound) establishes its dominance. |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jun 17, 2008 15:28:04 GMT -5
No, no, HA -- remember that I took your political test and wound up with Gandhi as my best friend? I've always been in the middle of the road -- just hope I don't get run over! And I'm no tree hugger -- just suggesting that we need to be careful how we use the tree -- I can build a house with it or I can burn it as firewood. One Giant Redwood tree can make 1,000 houses but 10,000 houses can not make a single tree. I don't hug trees. I hug my kids. I want them to inherit a wonderful world. I am more fearful of radical extremists that will strap nuclear weapons on their chests and set them off in NY, LA, Miami, and Chicago. There are enough trees, fish, and corn fields for Canada and the US. There are too many people in Darfur, India and Mexico and we don't need them settling in South Central LA and Missisaugua. Sending food and medicine to third world countries solves the problem for a day and makes it much worse the next month. It's a cure that is worse than the disease. |
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