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Post by Cranky on Aug 7, 2008 23:03:49 GMT -5
Since I play a lawyer on tv, I'll answer that....and you will not like it. [/i] I saw your show ... IRON BUTT ... DA [/quote] Hmm...Iron Butt....the cheeky lawyer who gets to the bottom of things.... |
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Post by cigarviper on Aug 7, 2008 23:13:21 GMT -5
As if losing a loved one to a senseless act of random violence isn't bad enough. Now the family is subjected to this crap? This just seems surreal.
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Post by CentreHice on Aug 8, 2008 1:04:00 GMT -5
I called them up and told them to shove their toilet paper up their......but do you think it stopped them? I still get it even though I am not paying for it! Free toilet paper.  |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Aug 8, 2008 5:30:41 GMT -5
Well, this is good anyway. Hadn't realized how small the denomination was. Beheading victim protesters stopped
Winnipeggers urge action against U.S. sect planning McLean funeral picket
By SIMON FULLER, SUN MEDIA
The Winnipeg Sun
Members of a controversial U.S.-based church hoping to picket the funeral of beheading victim Tim McLean Jr. were turned away at the Canadian border by officials yesterday.
The Westboro Baptist Church, based in Topeka, Kan., announced Wednesday it planned to protest the funeral, to be held tomorrow afternoon at Westwood Community Church. But church spokeswoman Shirley Phelps-Roper, daughter of church pastor Fred Phelps, confirmed last night one "team" of pickets were turned away at the Canadian border yesterday.
However, she said a second team was "on course" to arrive in Winnipeg in time for tomorrow's funeral.
"The only way they won't get through is if they are strip-searched and they find Westboro Baptist Church tattoos on their butts," said Phelps-Roper, who previously told the Winnipeg Sun McLean's "filthy ways" brought wrath upon his head.
If they do make it across the border, angry Winnipeggers are ready to confront them. Several Winnipeggers outraged by news the funeral for McLean, who was beheaded and partially eaten on a Greyhound bus west of Portage la Prairie last week, are planning to block the group from getting anywhere close to funeral-goers.
By early last night, a Facebook group devoted to the idea had swelled to almost 200 people.
"Everything they say is bizarre and off the wall and it's totally disrespectful to invade a funeral," said Winnipeg student Amalia Slobogian, 26, who joined the group after reading about the church's plans.
"When I first heard this, I was very angry. Freedom of speech is one thing, but imposing this at a funeral is totally inappropriate."
Pat Martin, the NDP MP for Winnipeg Centre, agreed.
"These guys are lunatics," said Martin.
"They're not baptists -- Tommy Douglas was a baptist."
Martin said there could be an "absolute melee at the church" if the picket goes ahead. If so, the folks from Kansas should be prepared for some "northern hospitality," he said.
Speaking from Ottawa, Martin said yesterday afternoon he had urged Public Safety Minister Stockwell Day and Immigration Minister Diane Finley to block the church's passage into Canada.
"They treated my concerns with absolute decency and respect," he said. "This is not a partisan issue and it goes beyond political stripes -- it's about common decency."
Slobogian said the controversial church -- whose members believe God is punishing people and nations who accept homosexuality -- is just trying to get publicity.
"They're just a tiny sect looking for attention and notoriety. It would torture them if people didn't hit their website," she said.
Slobogian said the anticipated protesters will not be met with violence or placards, just a human barricade to separate them from funeral guests.
A Winnipeg police spokeswoman said the protest would not violate any hate laws, but officers have the ability to lay charges depending on what happens tomorrow.
She said charges can be laid under the provincial Cemeteries Act if anyone wilfully and unlawfully disturbs people assembled "for the purpose of burying a body."
Vince Weiguang Li has been charged with second-degree murder in McLean's death. He is currently undergoing a psychiatric assessment to determine if he is fit to stand trial and is scheduled to appear in court again on Sept. 8.
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WHAT IS WESTBORO BAPTIST CHURCH?
WHO: Westboro Baptist Church
WHAT: Headed by disbarred lawyer Fred Phelps, the church has 71 members, 60 of whom are reportedly related to Phelps through blood, marriage or both. It is not associated with any known Baptist conventions or associations.
WHERE: Based in Topeka, Kan.
WHEN: First public service was held on Nov. 27, 1955.
WHY: Followers believe God views homosexuality as the ultimate sin. As a result, any community or nation accepting of the "homosexual agenda" is hated by God, and bad things that happen to its citizens are signs of His work.
LOWLIGHTS: Members have picketed funerals of U.S. soldiers killed in Iraq and the memorial for victims of the Sago Mine disaster in West Virginia ... Members have praised such things as AIDS and the 9/11 terror attacks ... Made several racial and anti-Semitic statements. cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2008/08/08/6384506-sun.html |
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Post by Cranky on Aug 8, 2008 8:30:40 GMT -5
If they do make it across the border, angry Winnipeggers are ready to confront them. Several Winnipeggers outraged by news the funeral for McLean, who was beheaded and partially eaten on a Greyhound bus west of Portage la Prairie last week, are planning to block the group from getting anywhere close to funeral-goers. By early last night, a Facebook group devoted to the idea had swelled to almost 200 people. If this was anywhere near Toronto, you could count me in. Wife would have bail money ready to go..... |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Aug 8, 2008 8:44:48 GMT -5
If they do make it across the border, angry Winnipeggers are ready to confront them. Several Winnipeggers outraged by news the funeral for McLean, who was beheaded and partially eaten on a Greyhound bus west of Portage la Prairie last week, are planning to block the group from getting anywhere close to funeral-goers. By early last night, a Facebook group devoted to the idea had swelled to almost 200 people. If this was anywhere near Toronto, you could count me in. Wife would have bail money ready to go..... [thumbs up smiley]here[/thumbs up smiley] |
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Post by clear observer on Aug 8, 2008 11:14:52 GMT -5
If they do make it across the border, angry Winnipeggers are ready to confront them. Several Winnipeggers outraged by news the funeral for McLean, who was beheaded and partially eaten on a Greyhound bus west of Portage la Prairie last week, are planning to block the group from getting anywhere close to funeral-goers. By early last night, a Facebook group devoted to the idea had swelled to almost 200 people. If this was anywhere near Toronto, you could count me in. Wife would have bail money ready to go..... As a "welcoming party" we could perhaps offer these as a token gift of appreciation for doing an "about-face" back to "Bucksnort U.S.A." .  I'd gladly make the first "gesture". |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Aug 8, 2008 11:42:58 GMT -5
If this was anywhere near Toronto, you could count me in. Wife would have bail money ready to go..... As a "welcoming party" we could perhaps offer these as a token gift of appreciation for doing an "about-face" back to "Bucksnort U.S.A." . I'd gladly make the first "gesture". Someone would probably complain about too much pine tar  |
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Post by The New Guy on Aug 8, 2008 15:31:10 GMT -5
Right on, TNG, but I never referred to the suicide bombers mate. There are extremist, fundamental Mullahs just as there are extremist, fundamental pastors, minister and rabbis. Then you and I have a different definition of extremist. To me an extremist is someone who takes extreme (and often illegal/immoral) acts to further their cause. Protesting - even in such a tasteless, degrading manner - is not extreme. It's a bunch of other things, but not extreme. Anyways - enough with the sophistry. I certainly agree with that; always did. However, some of what they find wrong with us, they, themselves, actually practice. Here's a cut and past from Wikipeida: He is known for preaching with slogans and banners denoting phrases such as "Thank God for 9/11", "America is doomed", "God hates fags," "AIDS cures fags," and "Fags die, God laughs (or mocks)," and claims that God will punish homosexuals as well as people such as Bill O'Reilly, Coretta Scott King, Ronald Reagan, and Howard Dean, whom his church considers "fag-enablers". He has also thanked God for the 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake and the 2005 flooding of James Bay in central Canada.Well, they and the fundamental Mullahs we've been talking about might agree on this. Yet, I don't know of any church denomination that uses this kind of tactic in promoting Christianity and the love of God. There are other ways that don't endorse belittling people, IMO. True. But again, I think you're doing both the Westboro nutters, and in this case the fundie Mullahs a disservice. They are not the only ones who preach intolerance and hate. It's practiced and preached the whole world over, and has been since the beginning of time. Hate because you are different! Not a novel concept at all. And not isolated in today's society. What about the right of the family to have a quiet burial service? Forgive me, but what if it were my family or your family? It comes down to which right is more 'important'. And while the family may disagree (I know I would if I were in that situation), the freedom of speech is so fundamental to everything I have come to believe in. It is one which we so frequently violate, which we frequently trample on because it's not easy to hear someone say those things. How does one feel when they hear "dumb frog" or "stupid newfie". I've threatened to beat someone senseless over that last one (I was younger then, but I probably still would be inclined to do so today). What about the harsher epithets? The ones which I won't post here because - well, there isn't a need to post them here. We all know what they are. How does it feel to be insulted? It sucks. Now imagine it's your dead son. Imagine, in all your grief, someone comes up to you and calls your son a lamb slaughtered for the sins of a nation. That's like those unmentioned epithets to the power of a million. So we use the pain as an excuse to violate someone else's rights. But that's not fair. That's not right. It may not be what anyone wants in their hour of suffering, but the right to speak your mind, even if you are filled with bitterness and hatred, it critical. Only the right to preserve yourself from physical harm trumps it. And that's why, so long as they do not call upon their followers to kill or hurt others, so long as their actions are nothing more than simple goading, I will support their right to speak their mind. |
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Post by The New Guy on Aug 8, 2008 15:41:04 GMT -5
If they do make it across the border, angry Winnipeggers are ready to confront them. Several Winnipeggers outraged by news the funeral for McLean, who was beheaded and partially eaten on a Greyhound bus west of Portage la Prairie last week, are planning to block the group from getting anywhere close to funeral-goers. By early last night, a Facebook group devoted to the idea had swelled to almost 200 people. If this was anywhere near Toronto, you could count me in. Wife would have bail money ready to go..... Wrong way to go about it, my friend. Wrong way to go about it. They want you to attack them. They want to engender your hatred. It gives them what they want. Media attention for themselves. What do you get? A stay in one of Her Majesties finest inns for assault. Not worth it. If I were in Winnipeg, or if I were advising them on what to do, I would look at the model of the Patriot Guard Riders. They're a group of (mostly) motorcycle riding veterans who attend funerals (at the request of the family) that are scheduled to be attended by the Westboro nutters. Their solution is non-violent. They just stand between the Westboro crowd and the family waving the American flag and singing patriotic songs. Nothing says I can't exercise my right to free speech in their presence. As long as I don't threaten them, and they don't threaten me, everything is jolly. Just MHO - but this is just the way I'd handle this... |
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Post by Cranky on Aug 9, 2008 9:01:03 GMT -5
Wrong way to go about it, my friend. Wrong way to go about it. They want you to attack them. They want to engender your hatred. It gives them what they want. Media attention for themselves. What do you get? A stay in one of Her Majesties finest inns for assault. Not worth it. If I were in Winnipeg, or if I were advising them on what to do, I would look at the model of the Patriot Guard Riders. They're a group of (mostly) motorcycle riding veterans who attend funerals (at the request of the family) that are scheduled to be attended by the Westboro nutters. Their solution is non-violent. They just stand between the Westboro crowd and the family waving the American flag and singing patriotic songs. Nothing says I can't exercise my right to free speech in their presence. As long as I don't threaten them, and they don't threaten me, everything is jolly. Just MHO - but this is just the way I'd handle this... Nothing different from the Patriot Gaurd. I envision being part of a human line forming between them and the funeral. Now, it they barged that line...... ;D |
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Post by clear observer on Aug 9, 2008 9:41:05 GMT -5
if they barged that line...... .......a "parting gift" it shall be. |
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Post by Cranky on Aug 9, 2008 9:56:54 GMT -5
if they barged that line...... .......a "parting gift" it shall be. Your sooooo old fashion! Wood is "out", aluminum is "in"..... |
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Post by clear observer on Aug 9, 2008 10:49:22 GMT -5
.......a "parting gift" it shall be. Your sooooo old fashion! Wood is "out", aluminum is "in"..... I still use my Sherwood PMP 5030's too. Yep...no substitute for the "feel" of wood. |
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Post by Skilly on Aug 9, 2008 12:09:07 GMT -5
Your sooooo old fashion! Wood is "out", aluminum is "in"..... no substitute for the "feel" of wood. This is a family site ... ;D |
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Post by seventeen on Aug 9, 2008 12:46:55 GMT -5
What I always find scariest about people like these (and the killer, too), is that they have the same number of votes as you and I. Somehow, for the good of 'democratic' countries in the world, that seems to be a real handicap toward excellence. (Notice how I've broadened the discussion) |
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Post by cigarviper on Aug 9, 2008 13:16:47 GMT -5
What I always find scariest about people like these (and the killer, too), is that they have the same number of votes as you and I. Somehow, for the good of 'democratic' countries in the world, that seems to be a real handicap toward excellence. (Notice how I've broadened the discussion) As he ponders the future of his country, american John Doe thinks, "Could 100 million christian voters be wrong?" |
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Post by clear observer on Aug 9, 2008 14:15:37 GMT -5
(Notice how I've broadened the discussion) Broads? BROADS? Someone mention broads? OK.  |
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Post by franko on Aug 9, 2008 22:20:15 GMT -5
What I always find scariest about people like these (and the killer, too), is that they have the same number of votes as you and I. Somehow, for the good of 'democratic' countries in the world, that seems to be a real handicap toward excellence. (Notice how I've broadened the discussion) As he ponders the future of his country, american John Doe thinks, "Could 100 million christian voters be wrong?" Hopefully we [not you, CV, just generalizing] aren't back to the thought that Christian = redneck = Republican [or in Canada, Conservative]. Easy paintbrush to wave but very untrue. |
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Post by cigarviper on Aug 10, 2008 0:33:47 GMT -5
As he ponders the future of his country, american John Doe thinks, "Could 100 million christian voters be wrong?" Hopefully we [not you, CV, just generalizing] aren't back to the thought that Christian = redneck = Republican [or in Canada, Conservative]. Easy paintbrush to wave but very untrue. Just making reference to Bush pandering to the Christian voters got him elected for a second term. Sad but true. And we thought one term was enough. I wonder how the Westboro Baptists voted? Looks like the funeral took place without incident, thankfully. RIP Tim McLean. |
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Post by The New Guy on Aug 10, 2008 9:55:09 GMT -5
What I always find scariest about people like these (and the killer, too), is that they have the same number of votes as you and I. Somehow, for the good of 'democratic' countries in the world, that seems to be a real handicap toward excellence. (Notice how I've broadened the discussion) That's a dangerous road to go down 17. But here's a thought provoking question to push it in just that way. If I disagree with the majority - who I perceive to be wrong/insane/stupid - is it the majority that is truly all these things, or is it in fact myself? |
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Post by franko on Aug 10, 2008 10:44:05 GMT -5
Hopefully we [not you, CV, just generalizing] aren't back to the thought that Christian = redneck = Republican [or in Canada, Conservative]. Easy paintbrush to wave but very untrue. Just making reference to Bush pandering to the Christian voters got him elected for a second term. Sad but true. And we thought one term was enough. ot1h, it's good politicing -- to win you need enough votes; to get enough votes you chase them down. otoh, the thought seems to be that if you are Christian you would vote for Bush/the Republican party . . . or maybe if youare white and Christian you would. Is not necessarily so. I know white Christians that love Bush and white Christians that loathe him . . . and I know black Christians that love Bush and I know black Christians that loathe him. Christians in more "rightish" churches all! Obama is now pandering to Christian voters as well -- in fact, you have to if you want to be elected president! Funny thing . . . Jimmy Carter is loved and reviled . . . by Christians! |
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