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Post by franko on Sept 7, 2008 13:40:37 GMT -5
So . . . for the next month and a bit we'll be inundated with political rhetoric, and by the end of it probably be sick of it all Discussions and debates will hit the air [and web] waves.
I'm wondering not who HabsRusers will vote for as much as if you've changed your mind and will vote differently this election than last. If you want, give reasons why the change [and from which party to which].
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Post by PTH on Sept 7, 2008 14:45:39 GMT -5
Last time, I voted for who I thought was the best party, or at least the one that best represented my values.
This time, I'll vote according to who has the best chance to beat the Conservatives in my riding. Their hypocrisy in launching an unneeded election after making such a point about the fixed-date election bill really got to me, and that copyright bill that was proposed was god-awful - worse than the awful DMCA down south....
I've seen the Conservatives do too many things badly to want them back, or, more to the point, to want to see them form a majority government...
The CAW are basically going the same way I am.... they're even backing the Bloc in places....
I wonder if minor parties, like the Greens, will get fewer votes this time around, since no one will want to "waste" their vote on someone they know won't be elected, especially in an election where there will be a lot of tight, 3-way races where every vote counts...
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Post by CrocRob on Sept 7, 2008 15:19:13 GMT -5
I have to admit. I'm voting for anybody but the Conservatives. If they're not willing to do the job in the situation to which we elected them, then as far as I'm concerned they don't want the job.
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Post by MC Habber on Sept 7, 2008 15:25:36 GMT -5
Much as it churns my stomach to vote Liberal, I may also be voting for whoever has the best chance to beat the Conservatives.
Harper says he expects the result of the election will be another minority government. This really makes me wonder what the point of it is.
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Post by Skilly on Sept 7, 2008 15:30:23 GMT -5
ABC all the way ..... 10 billions reasons why
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Post by roke on Sept 7, 2008 16:18:15 GMT -5
ABC all the way ..... 10 billions reasons why Took me half an hour to figure that out, finally got it though. I'm looking forward to seeing who the NDP and Liberal candidates will be in my riding. Last election the Conservative nominee was the only one to run a visible, decent campaign, and surprisingly got elected as a result. The incumbent Liberal ran a very arrogant campaign, spending most of his time in other ridings and, while at the University for a question/answer session said that "Conservative policy is bad policy". I didn't necessarily disagree with him, but to make that remark was ridiculous. I did not see the NDP candidate, either door-to-door or at the University. Instead, the NDP candidate taking part in the debate , stupidly playing to the "crowd" of morons, pledged to bring the Jets back to Winnipeg. Needless to say I don't see myself ever voting for the NDP in any Federal election because of that preposterous statement. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Sept 7, 2008 16:18:26 GMT -5
The local Tory in my riding just pulled up, dropped off some literature and plunked a sign down on my property (the city side of the sidewalk I think) without my permission.
If it was right on my property I'd remove it and toss it away. I'm not sure what I can do about this because I don't think it's on my property. But I left a voice mail at his campaign office asking him to remove the sign.
That's on this election. When we were living in PEI I remember the local candidate knocking on my front door and walking in as soon as I opened it. That's actually pretty common with folks you know; sometimes friends just walk in. However, I asked him to leave but he insisted on giving me his résumé. Needless to say he didn't get my vote either.
Last election Mrs Dis and I submitted protest votes. Nothing has really changed this time around. Each of the three major parties are still leaderless.
Cheers.
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Post by franko on Sept 7, 2008 17:02:30 GMT -5
Should be interesting as days go by. Harper will focus on Quebec and a bit on Toronto, but his best bet is to see the Quebec vote swing his way, accept that NFLD is going ABC, hold on to what he has in the Maritimes and the Praries, and hope that BC doesn't totally turn its back on him; then hope that the Green, the NDP, and the Liberals split the vote. As for me . . . I'm not voting same as last time. Last election the four people living here voted for differnt parties [4 parties, one vote each]. Mine was a protest/switch vote, but I just can't vote for Elizabeth May. She has been antagonisitc from day one, and when I contacted her and her office received a "deal with it" type of reply. Uh-uh [too bad Cherechenko isn't the leader -- he is a leader! Honestly, McGuinty will win in a landslide. I might just protest by spoiling my ballot -- am ready and willing at any time to discuss policies with the candidates, but just expect "rah-rah my party is better" answers. RS: would you not say the same thing to the Liberals, who continually said that the Conservatives had terrible policy and didn't deserve to be in power, but never showed up to vote them out? Roke: that was a promise from lack of hope of winning . . . definitely not NDP policy. Interestingly, the NDP is slagging the Conservatives for not giving the big 3 automakers incentives, yet feels that manufacturers should be taxed at a higher rate than they are and should not receive government handouts! I think the hypocrisy is well spread out. Remember Brewster's Millions?  Vote "none of the above" |
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Post by cigarviper on Sept 7, 2008 19:44:32 GMT -5
The only good tory is a suppository.
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Post by CrocRob on Sept 7, 2008 21:17:28 GMT -5
RS: would you not say the same thing to the Liberals, who continually said that the Conservatives had terrible policy and didn't deserve to be in power, but never showed up to vote them out? The bottom line is that the minority Conservative government is the one we elected ourselves into. I believe Canadians as a whole don't want elections. Especially any more than necessary. If the Liberals vote the Conservatives out, it blows up in their face. Then Harper gets his nagging line to nag about, and the Tories steal a bunch more votes from the Liberals and possibly get a majority. It made sense not to vote them out. And as the opposition party it isn't (well, it shouldn't be) their role to decide when the government operates and when it falls. It's too easy to call elections at convenient times when other parties aren't (as) prepared. We've all seen the Conservative party ads running for about a month now. This was planned weeks (months?) in advance and in a devious nature to the citizens which they're supposed to represent. Somehow we've managed to elect a bunch of idiots to office. All of the parties suck. I have to vote in the U.S. election too, where it's a choice between two guys who are totally unprepared for the magnitude of the job and office for which they're running. Maybe I'll just vote for Nader. |
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Post by BadCompany on Sept 8, 2008 7:29:19 GMT -5
I have never been so unispired by any election in my entire life. I am a political junkie, and yet I feel like not voting in this one. Yeah, forfeit my right to complain and all that, but I dislike them all. Do I show up just to spoil my ballot? Register a protest vote? With who?? I wouldn't know who to protest against.
Both Harper and Dion embarrass me as "leaders" and while both the Liberals and Conservatives have aspects to their platforms that I both like and dislike, neither one of them is distinguished enough from the other to really make a difference.
The NDP will never form a government and wouldn't know what to do if they did.
And the Bloc MP in my riding has made a concerted effort to ignore the English in my riding, or even worse, play the language card in an effort to drum up votes, knowing full well that the only reason she keeps getting elected is because the so-called "Federal" vote is split between the other three parties.
Maybe I'm too young to remember others, but this has got to be the worst bunch of so-called "leaders" that I have ever seen. I can honestly say that I will feel disappointed in whoever wins...
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Post by roke on Sept 8, 2008 7:32:32 GMT -5
Roke: that was a promise from lack of hope of winning . . . definitely not NDP policy. Interestingly, the NDP is slagging the Conservatives for not giving the big 3 automakers incentives, yet feels that manufacturers should be taxed at a higher rate than they are and should not receive government handouts! It was clear the guy had no chance, but for the candidate to come out and say that was appalling. The NDP need to do a better job of selecting their candidates so they don't end up with bozos like him running. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Sept 8, 2008 8:31:47 GMT -5
I have never been so unispired by any election in my entire life. I am a political junkie, and yet I feel like not voting in this one. Yeah, forfeit my right to complain and all that, but I dislike them all. Do I show up just to spoil my ballot? Register a protest vote? With who?? I wouldn't know who to protest against. Both Harper and Dion embarrass me as "leaders" and while both the Liberals and Conservatives have aspects to their platforms that I both like and dislike, neither one of them is distinguished enough from the other to really make a difference. The NDP will never form a government and wouldn't know what to do if they did. And the Bloc MP in my riding has made a concerted effort to ignore the English in my riding, or even worse, play the language card in an effort to drum up votes, knowing full well that the only reason she keeps getting elected is because the so-called "Federal" vote is split between the other three parties. Maybe I'm too young to remember others, but this has got to be the worst bunch of so-called "leaders" that I have ever seen. I can honestly say that I will feel disappointed in whoever wins... Only a personal opinion, BC, but of all the major parties I find the Bloc to the most organized. They have a clear-cut vision and make no beefs about it. The NDP just simply waffle. There are too many Liberals still in the House that were there during ADSCAM and while the Tories have done a half-competant job, they're talking out of both sides of their mouths. Not looking forward to this vote. Cheers. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2008 8:51:29 GMT -5
Not interested in a strategic vote. I'd rather not vote for a party I hate just to see the other party I hate get beaten. Going to look in at NDP or Green Party to see what they're offering.
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Post by CentreHice on Sept 8, 2008 8:57:02 GMT -5
Like it or not, we live in an "image first" society...and Dion comes across as bland, bland, bland. It's sizzle over steak in this one. And that's what Harper is counting on. The Conservatives have been running anti-Dion ads (carbon tax) for months in Toronto. And are they ever hokey.
I think enough Canadians will be ticked at another election call to prevent Harper from forming a majority....making the exercise a complete waste of money, effort, and time.
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Post by halihab on Sept 8, 2008 10:26:30 GMT -5
Don't really give a damn. 3 elections in the last 4 years is ridiculous.
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Post by CrocRob on Sept 8, 2008 11:04:26 GMT -5
I think enough Canadians will be ticked at another election call to prevent Harper from forming a majority....making the exercise a complete waste of money, effort, and time. This brings up a good point. Anybody know how much it costs to run an election? I was involved in the provincial one last year, and it seemed like it cost an absurd amount. I alone was paid several thousand dollars to do menial work like data entry. It must cost millions. If Harper gets re-elected to a minority, can we ask he (or his party) pay for it out of their pockets? |
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Post by The New Guy on Sept 8, 2008 13:02:10 GMT -5
An election runs on the order of $50 million dollars in cost to the government I believe (I have no sources on that, but that's the number that comes to mind).
And, having been a life long Conservative I am sad to say I will not be voting Conservative in the coming election. Too many broken promises, which is something I absolutely detested about the Liberals. If I lived in a riding where there was a snowball's chance in hell of a Conservative getting in I would vote against them with the strongest party, but since my riding (in the heart of the 416) has been Liberal since 1988 so I'll probably give my vote to some poor sap who wasted the $200 nomination fee representing one of the fringe parties in hopes that they make the percentage of the vote required to get their money back (I've always had a soft spot for people ho run in the Marxist-Lenninst Party. That requires a special kind of dedication to your cause).
Frankly, none of the major candidates appeal to me. The Conservatives have managed to drive me away from their ranks, despite the fact I come from a family who has voted Conservative since Joey Smallwood first joined the Liberals. The Liberal are no better than the Conservatives - worse perhaps because of their years of institutionalized criminal behavior. The NDP are pie-in-the-sky idealists who would bankrupt the country within six months. The Greens care only about the environment to the exclusion of all else. The Bloc are... the Bloc (and don't run in Ontario anyways). Who is there really to vote for?
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Sept 8, 2008 13:05:41 GMT -5
How can a country possibly plan and complete an election in under three years and eleven months?
How can a country possibly count the votes in less than two months?
How can the election cost less than a billion dollars?
Can a duh can!
Hockey moms unite!
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Post by Doc Holliday on Sept 8, 2008 13:50:02 GMT -5
Liberals had the opportunity to deeply clean their party but chose to put Mini-Chretien at the helm instead. No way do I want their greedy crooked fingers near my tax dollar again so they can, extort gazillions in fuzzy, hazy projects that will have, this time, the Enviro stamp on it as the justifier...
I'm not a sold Conservatives and I sure don,t like the fact that he'll calling an early election but they lowered the tax burden, officially recognized Quebec as a unique nation and don't blindly subscribe to the Green Hysteria.
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Post by franko on Sept 8, 2008 14:37:34 GMT -5
Liberals had the opportunity to deeply clean their party but chose to put Mini-Chretien at the helm instead. No way do I want their greedy crooked fingers near my tax dollar again so they can, extort gazillions in fuzzy, hazy projects that will have, this time, the Enviro stamp on it as the justifier... I'm not a sold Conservatives and I sure don,t like the fact that he'll calling an early election but they lowered the tax burden, officially recognized Quebec as a unique nation and don't blindly subscribe to the Green Hysteria. And here I thought HA was out of the country ;D |
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Post by CrocRob on Sept 8, 2008 15:28:31 GMT -5
Who is there really to vote for? It's an election like that that really makes me want to run. If I had the time to put together even a half-assed campaign I'd do it. It's one of my life goals to run for office. Even if the purpose is only to reveal to Joe Canada the ridiculous crap our major parties are trying to get away with. Or just to help show people that the vocal minority are the ones who truly run our country. |
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Post by MC Habber on Sept 8, 2008 15:57:03 GMT -5
An election runs on the order of $50 million dollars in cost to the government I believe (I have no sources on that, but that's the number that comes to mind). $290 million. That's the projected cost of this election. The last 2 cost $270 million each. This is according to CBC news yesterday. So we're each paying $10 for this excercise in futility. |
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Post by Skilly on Sept 8, 2008 17:50:48 GMT -5
An election runs on the order of $50 million dollars in cost to the government I believe (I have no sources on that, but that's the number that comes to mind). $290 million. That's the projected cost of this election. The last 2 cost $270 million each. This is according to CBC news yesterday. So we're each paying $10 for this excercise in futility. You might be paying $10 .... I'm paying $40. The kids aren't exactly doling out their own money.  |
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Post by franko on Sept 8, 2008 18:35:24 GMT -5
$290 million. That's the projected cost of this election. The last 2 cost $270 million each. This is according to CBC news yesterday. So we're each paying $10 for this excercise in futility. You might be paying $10 .... I'm paying $40. The kids aren't exactly doling out their own money. Come on, now, Skilly . . . you're still $60 ahead after Mr. Harper's $100/month gift, aren't you? [aside: either do a government-sponsored day care thing or do nothing -- that one was pathetic] |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Sept 8, 2008 22:30:14 GMT -5
Liberals had the opportunity to deeply clean their party but chose to put Mini-Chretien at the helm instead. No way do I want their greedy crooked fingers near my tax dollar again so they can, extort gazillions in fuzzy, hazy projects that will have, this time, the Enviro stamp on it as the justifier... I'm not a sold Conservatives and I sure don,t like the fact that he'll calling an early election but they lowered the tax burden, officially recognized Quebec as a unique nation and don't blindly subscribe to the Green Hysteria. Good run-down, Doc. That Tory sign that was plopped outside of my house has since been knocked over but I'm not sure by who(m). Honestly, I don't know. I've seen a difference in my tax return under the Tories though. I actually look forward to a return nowadays ever since they allowed pensions to be split. And they've done a good job of putting both Canada and her military back on the international map. Still, I can't trust Harper with a majority. He's simply not trustworthy (but what politician is nowadays). He's broken quite a few promises but made some gains elsewhere. Both he and Dion have already started the mud-slinging. Layton will probably concede his 3rd-place ranking and will sit on the fence once again. As I was saying each of the major parties is pretty much leaderless. Hard vote this time around. Cheers. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Sept 9, 2008 6:43:34 GMT -5
Interesting that the major networks won't be allowing the Greens to participate in nationally-televised debates. They don't give a reason why. Greens can't participate in leaders debates, networks rule
Defiant May won't rule out legal challenge
Last Updated: Monday, September 8, 2008 | 9:00 PM ET CBC News
Canada's broadcasters will not allow Green Leader Elizabeth May to participate in the leaders debates during the federal election campaign, the networks announced Monday afternoon.
'The consortium of networks, which includes the CBC, said three of Canada's parties were opposed to May's inclusion, but did not give more details.
In recent days, the Conservatives, Bloc Québécois and the NDP have all expressed their opposition to May joining the debates.
"It became clear that if the Green party were included, there would be no leaders' debate," the consortium said in a press release.
"In the interest of Canadians, the consortium has determined that it is better to broadcast the debates with the four major party leaders, rather than not at all."
May calls decision 'anti-democratic'
The Greens' leader immediately came out firing on the decision, saying her party "may have to take further steps" and will consult with legal advisers about a possible court challenge or injunction against the debate taking place without her.
"I think it really is appalling that the media consortium is willing at this point to rewrite the rules," May said to the CBC's Don Newman on Monday, just minutes after the decision was announced.
She said the Greens are fielding 306 candidates across the country to run "against all those parties that don’t want to see us in the debates."
May also dismissed the consortium's explanation that her presence would cause the other leaders not to show up.
"I don't think Canadians will accept this for a minute," May said. "It's the decision-making of a small group of TV network executives, and to do so without clear rules that are transparent and predictable and applied fairly really is anti-democratic."
The parties that will take part in the debates are the New Democrats, the Liberals, the Bloc Québécois and the Conservatives.
The debates will take place Oct. 1 and 2.
PM: Allowing May into debate 'unfair'
Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion said Monday that his party had supported May's participation, but that he himself would not participate if Conservative Leader Stephen Harper were to boycott the debates.
"I will say that I would like her to be there," Dion said.
Bloc Québécois Leader Gilles Duceppe said that while he never threatened to withdraw over the issue, his preference was to have just the leaders of the four major parties in Parliament, and that the Greens should not be included in the debate because they have not elected an MP to Parliament yet.
In their opposition, the Tories and NDP cited a deal struck by May and Dion, in which they agreed not to run candidates against each other in their respective Nova Scotia and Quebec ridings.
NDP campaign spokesman Brad Lavigne confirmed late Monday that party leader Jack Layton had said he wouldn't attend the debate if May were allowed to participate.
"We believe that as someone who's endorsed Stéphane Dion to be the prime minister of Canada, she has endorsed Liberal candidates throughout the country," Lavigne said.
"We said that if the Liberals were going to have two representatives, we would not accept the invitation."
Harper said letting May participate in the debates would be in essence allowing a "second Liberal candidate" to participate, which he called "fundamentally unfair."
"Elizabeth May is not an opponent of Stéphane Dion," the prime minister said. "She is his candidate in Central Nova, and I think it would be fundamentally unfair to have two candidates who are essentially running on the same platform in the debate," Harper said at a campaign event in Richmond, B.C.
He also said he expected May to endorse the Liberal party before the end of the campaign.
'We are cutting into his base': May
But May dismissed Harper's claims, saying the prime minister was "clearly the leader who has the most to lose here.
"We are cutting into his base," she said. "And frankly, the notion that I would go into debates as someone to cheer on one other party leader is absurd."
The Greens have previously indicated that if they were excluded, they would lodge a complaint with Canada's broadcasting regulator, the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission, and might launch a court challenge.
Traditionally, the consortium of Canada's largest English and French television networks — CBC/Radio-Canada, CTV, Global Television and TVA — has decided which party leaders would participate in the debates.
In the December 2005 debates that preceded the 2006 election, Jim Harris — then leader of the Green party — was excluded because his party had no seats in the House of Commons.
Representation in the House of Commons is an "indisputable" criterion for inclusion in the national debate, said the CBC ombudsman in a 2006 report responding to Green party complaints.
Former Independent MP Blair Wilson, who was elected as a Liberal, joined the Greens last month as the party's first member of Parliament.www.cbc.ca/news/canadavotes/story/2008/09/08/greens-debates.html |
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Post by franko on Sept 9, 2008 8:00:28 GMT -5
Interesting that the major networks won't be allowing the Greens to participate in nationally-televised debates. They don't give a reason why. Well, they implied a few reasons . . . including "but then every fringe party will want in". Unreasonable, yes, but when you are grasping . . . Actually, just anti-green. The consortium voted "no" -- that's how democracy works. Interesting . . . and probably a stretch . . . but that's politics. Only if she wants to quit being leader of the Greens and run for the Liberals in the next election! Actually, the most to win. She'll draw votes from the Liverals and NDP . . . maybe for some "soft-conservatives" but not many. Splitting the vote works in Harper's favour. |
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Post by Skilly on Sept 9, 2008 8:04:11 GMT -5
You might be paying $10 .... I'm paying $40. The kids aren't exactly doling out their own money. Come on, now, Skilly . . . you're still $60 ahead after Mr. Harper's $100/month gift, aren't you? [aside: either do a government-sponsored day care thing or do nothing -- that one was pathetic] Let's see ... I am paying $60 a day in daycare fees ... Harper gives me $200 a month. So he pays for 3 days a month. Gee thanks .... who is paying for the other 17 days I wonder? Increasing daycare spaces isnt going to lower the cost either.... with billions of surplus, (ok maybe not anymore with the way he is willy-nilly tossing cash around) we could have had the best daycare services on the planet. But ohhh nooooo!!!! |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2008 8:46:14 GMT -5
Who is there really to vote for? Marxist-Leninist Party of Canada.  |
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