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Post by franko on Sept 9, 2008 13:17:15 GMT -5
Let's move it over here and out of the general election discussion . . . it might easily take over.
Doc, gotta tell you . . . I have no problems at all with government involvement and intervention in day care. Not that there is anything wrong with a neighbour/grandparent looking after a child, but with government involvement there are checks and balances.
In Ontario, in non-daycare centres . . .
Maximum of five children allowed, with specific age limits. No problem with that -- how can someone look after five or more babies properly?
House must be kept in good shape, equipment must be in good shape. No problem with that either.
Checks and balances are necessary.
Subsidies for families, if necessary (though as I said I have problems with the qualifications for receiving them).
Centres have their place as well.
But you nailed it with the subsidies for everyone, and unionized workers. I don't begrudge the workers a good wage (gotta tell you, I wouldn't want to do it!!!) . . . and wish my wife had paid holidays . . . but the system in Quebec sounds a mess -- your baby is born it goes on a waiting list . . . the system has failed . . . and people expect more and more handouts.
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Post by CrocRob on Sept 9, 2008 18:39:34 GMT -5
I'm definitely not in favour of universal daycare. In a country where more and more people aren't having kids (or not as many) those people are already footing the bill for other peoples' children's medical costs via universal healthcare. I think daycare is something that parents can (largely) pay for. Subsidies based on household gross income are fine with me, though. And preferably I'd only want subsidies on pre-school aged children.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Sept 10, 2008 1:03:34 GMT -5
Misleading title.
I thought this would be about coaching Kovalev and Higgins.
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Post by Skilly on Sept 10, 2008 7:52:00 GMT -5
And preferably I'd only want subsidies on pre-school aged children. My day-care woes would be obsolete if Newfoundland had full-day kindegarten... once kids enter school they don't need day-care. Some require after-school care yes, but it is far easier to juggle your work times to meet you children at 3:00, then it is to juggle the middle of your day ... |
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Post by CrocRob on Sept 10, 2008 8:45:55 GMT -5
And preferably I'd only want subsidies on pre-school aged children. My day-care woes would be obsolete if Newfoundland had full-day kindegarten... once kids enter school they don't need day-care. Some require after-school care yes, but it is far easier to juggle your work times to meet you children at 3:00, then it is to juggle the middle of your day ... They just moved to that here for a bunch of schools as a trial (though they'll probably implement it province-wide regardless of how it goes). Currently the only complaint is keeping track of the weeks, as it's every other Friday that your kid is at school. |
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Post by franko on Sept 10, 2008 8:57:32 GMT -5
And preferably I'd only want subsidies on pre-school aged children. My day-care woes would be obsolete if Newfoundland had full-day kindegarten... once kids enter school they don't need day-care. Some require after-school care yes, but it is far easier to juggle your work times to meet you children at 3:00, then it is to juggle the middle of your day ... a rose by any other name . . . JK [in Ontario] is really nothing more than half-day free day care. They talk about full day JK and SK here, but where do you put the kids? How is it paid for? But "kindergarten" sounds much better than "government day care". |
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Post by Skilly on Sept 10, 2008 9:35:58 GMT -5
My day-care woes would be obsolete if Newfoundland had full-day kindegarten... once kids enter school they don't need day-care. Some require after-school care yes, but it is far easier to juggle your work times to meet you children at 3:00, then it is to juggle the middle of your day ... a rose by any other name . . . JK [in Ontario] is really nothing more than half-day free day care. They talk about full day JK and SK here, but where do you put the kids? How is it paid for? But "kindergarten" sounds much better than "government day care". I have no idea what SK or JK are ... but I think we are talking apples and oranges. What do you mean "where to put the kids"? When I was in kindergarten, back in 1977, I went to school at 9:00 and I got out of school at 3:30. I was in school the entire day, so "where to put the kids"? ... in school. Now, Kindergarteners (the grade before Grade 1 here) go to school at 9:00 (or 12:30), and get off at 11:30 (or 3:00). They are in school for half the regular day. It isn't daycare, it is learning. A parent can easily (well most we know anyway) juggle their morning and afternoons to accommodate a 6hr school day. For us it is a matter of one starting an hour earlier and the other getting off an hour later. But half-day kindergarten screws up everything. I know this is the sticks/boonies but even in St. John's traffic at noon is a %$#@. So one of us has to take a hour and a half lunch (sometimes more) to either bring our kids to school or go home and wait for the bus to drop them off lunchtime..... the logistics is solved if Kindergarten was a full-day of learning at school like it used to be when I was a kid. |
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Post by franko on Sept 10, 2008 10:10:02 GMT -5
I have no idea what SK or JK are ... but I think we are talking apples and oranges. Junior Kindergarten (4 year olds) and Senior Kindergarten (5 year olds). Not enough classrooms as it is (in Ontario) -- we have schools built two years ago that are already over-crowded . . . kids in portables with no washrooms, poor heating and ventilation, mould . . . maybe it's different in N'land. Ouch do I feel old! Yup, me too. Here too . . . and I was being facetious [somewhat] about it being merely daycare. It messes up everything in the big city, too. When I was a kid? You are getting old! ;D |
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Post by CrocRob on Sept 10, 2008 10:35:16 GMT -5
My day-care woes would be obsolete if Newfoundland had full-day kindegarten... once kids enter school they don't need day-care. Some require after-school care yes, but it is far easier to juggle your work times to meet you children at 3:00, then it is to juggle the middle of your day ... a rose by any other name . . . JK [in Ontario] is really nothing more than half-day free day care. They talk about full day JK and SK here, but where do you put the kids? How is it paid for? But "kindergarten" sounds much better than "government day care". The implementation of full-day SK and JK is being approached as full day every-other day [for now]. So you send your kid to kindergarten on Monday, Wednesday (or Tuesday, Thursday) and every second Friday. The classes aren't a huge problem, because it's still "half-time." You're just shuffling the kids around less. I think this would aid one of Skilly's issues, so there would be no noon pickup anymore. At least, that's how it's being implemented here in Waterloo Region. |
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Post by clear observer on Sept 10, 2008 11:06:43 GMT -5
a rose by any other name . . . JK [in Ontario] is really nothing more than half-day free day care. They talk about full day JK and SK here, but where do you put the kids? How is it paid for? But "kindergarten" sounds much better than "government day care". The implementation of full-day SK and JK is being approached as full day every-other day [for now]. So you send your kid to kindergarten on Monday, Wednesday (or Tuesday, Thursday) and every second Friday. The classes aren't a huge problem, because it's still "half-time." You're just shuffling the kids around less. I think this would aid one of Skilly's issues, so there would be no noon pickup anymore. At least, that's how it's being implemented here in Waterloo Region. Precisely the system in Belleville Ontario, as well. |
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Post by Doc Holliday on Sept 10, 2008 11:35:46 GMT -5
Doc, gotta tell you . . . I have no problems at all with government involvement That's my pet peeve I guess I live in a province that rules: * the color of margarine. * how to handle your cell in your car. * which kind of tires to put on your car and at which time to put them on. * which daycare my kids should go to and how much I'll pay for it. * where I can turn right on a red light and where I can't. * how much milk can be produce and how much I'll pay for it. * how much maple syrup can be produce and how much I'll pay for it. * if the company I work for offers group insurance I HAVE TO adhere my whole familly to it no matter how bad or insanely pricey it could be. * we have a floor (not a ceiling!) on gas price. * and education system where kids are no longer graded to avoid elitism... and so on... Get the picture:  Government interventions in every tiny aspects leads to lost of freedom and despotism... |
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Post by jkr on Sept 12, 2008 14:48:46 GMT -5
Doc, gotta tell you . . . I have no problems at all with government involvement That's my pet peeve I guess I live in a province that rules: * the color of margarine. * how to handle your cell in your car. * which kind of tires to put on your car and at which time to put them on. * which daycare my kids should go to and how much I'll pay for it. * where I can turn right on a red light and where I can't. * how much milk can be produce and how much I'll pay for it. * how much maple syrup can be produce and how much I'll pay for it. * if the company I work for offers group insurance I HAVE TO adhere my whole familly to it no matter how bad or insanely pricey it could be. * we have a floor (not a ceiling!) on gas price. * and education system where kids are no longer graded to avoid elitism... and so on... Government interventions in every tiny aspects leads to lost of freedom and despotism... Doc, On the margaraine thing - I thought I saw something on the news recently that indicated that restriction was no longer in effect. And a couple of those other points ( cell phone use & school system shortcomings) exist in other provinces too. Anyway wasn't that restriction placed on margarine producers to "protect" butter producers. I believe the thinking was that people would not buy white maragrine as a butter substitute because it looked too much like lard. |
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Post by MC Habber on Sept 12, 2008 15:17:54 GMT -5
That's my pet peeve I guess I live in a province that rules: * the color of margarine. * how to handle your cell in your car. * which kind of tires to put on your car and at which time to put them on. * which daycare my kids should go to and how much I'll pay for it. * where I can turn right on a red light and where I can't. * how much milk can be produce and how much I'll pay for it. * how much maple syrup can be produce and how much I'll pay for it. * if the company I work for offers group insurance I HAVE TO adhere my whole familly to it no matter how bad or insanely pricey it could be. * we have a floor (not a ceiling!) on gas price. * and education system where kids are no longer graded to avoid elitism... and so on... Government interventions in every tiny aspects leads to lost of freedom and despotism... Doc, On the margaraine thing - I thought I saw something on the news recently that indicated that restriction was no longer in effect. Anyway wasn't that restriction placed on margarine producers to "protect" butter producers. I believe the thinking was that people would not buy white maragrine as a butter substitute because it looked too much like lard. Yes and yes. But it is debateable whether the government should protect established industries against new competitors. The margarine thing is not unique to Quebec though: The key to slowing margarine sales (and protecting the established dairy industries), however, emerged as restricting its color. Margarine naturally appears white or almost white: by forbidding the addition of artificial coloring agents, legislators found that they could keep margarine off kitchen tables. Bans on coloration became commonplace around the world and endured for almost 100 years. It did not become legal to sell colored margarine in Australia, for example, until the 1960s.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margarine#HistoryQuebec just took longer than most to allow coloured margarine. |
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