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Post by Skilly on Jan 15, 2009 10:28:13 GMT -5
I actually cried when I heard of this .... there are no words that come to mind to describe the anger, or the contempt, that I feel towards this man. Father who let daughter walk away in snow storm is charged with murderFrom Times Online December 31, 2008 The father of an 11-year-old girl who died after trying to walk 10 miles in knee-deep snow on Christmas Day to see their mother has been charged with murder.
FULL STORYI don't think the judge should sentence this man to life in jail. Let the punishment fit the crime. This guy should be told he is a free man, but has to live where the judge deems appropriate. Then the judge should tell him, they are going to drop him off with just the clothes he has on his back, in the middle of Antartica, and he has to make his way home..... |
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Post by franko on Jan 15, 2009 11:06:37 GMT -5
I don't think the judge should sentence this man to life in jail. Let the punishment fit the crime. This guy should be told he is a free man, but has to live where the judge deems appropriate. Then the judge should tell him, they are going to drop him off with just the clothes he has on his back, in the middle of Antartica, and he has to make his way home..... shades of Rainbow Six! btw, Skilly, I think that jail as retribution doesn't work [often doesn't work as rehabilitation either, but that's another story] . . . thought your particular suggestion is a little harsh, we'd do a lot better to come up with such a system. HOWEVER [you had to know that was coming] . . . it'll never happen. Too much money to be made in the penal system [in the US] and too many good-paying governmental jobs here in Canada. But think of the money that could be saved! [suggestions of "just shooting 'em all will save money too" will be ignored]. |
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Post by CrocRob on Jan 15, 2009 11:19:49 GMT -5
I'd be curious to know what their basis for a murder 2 charge is. It seems like manslaughter in it's purest definition. There was no intent here. There's no way he should be convicted of that.
Not to be insensitive, because the father should rightfully be charged, but it certainly sounds like a trumped up charge so they can make a deal for manslaughter.
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Post by Skilly on Jan 15, 2009 11:54:15 GMT -5
I'd be curious to know what their basis for a murder 2 charge is. It seems like manslaughter in it's purest definition. There was no intent here. There's no way he should be convicted of that. Not to be insensitive, because the father should rightfully be charged, but it certainly sounds like a trumped up charge so they can make a deal for manslaughter. I am no expert on the American Justice system but I think that charges of second-degree murder in the States can be laid if there is intent or proven gross negligence. I think in the states they have a "depraved-heart" statute where if it is proven that the murder resulted from extreme recklessness with no intent, then second degree murder can be charged. But you are right, this can, and probably will be downgraded to manslaughter. |
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Post by CrocRob on Jan 15, 2009 11:56:53 GMT -5
Also, every state's laws are different. So Idaho might have the statute you're talking about, or have something else to justify it.
The good thing is that even a moron (and this guy is without a doubt a moron) can feel the pain of losing a child. He'll have to live with that the rest of his life.
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Post by clear observer on Jan 15, 2009 13:03:16 GMT -5
Disgustingly tragic.
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Post by MC Habber on Jan 15, 2009 13:39:01 GMT -5
Totally beyond comprehension. I wouldn't let an adult walk 10 miles in those conditions, let alone a child. It's difficult to believe anyone could be that stupid.
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Post by clear observer on Jan 15, 2009 13:48:40 GMT -5
Totally beyond comprehension. I wouldn't let an adult walk 10 miles in those conditions, let alone a child. It's difficult to believe anyone could be that stupid. TWO children!! It's incomprehensible, truly. This man is doomed; wherever he's sent, it'll never equal the hell he will feel in his heart and mind for the rest of his days. |
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Post by CentreHice on Jan 15, 2009 19:08:45 GMT -5
And the buddy who was with him wasn't at the front of the line in the judgement department either.
Wouldn't you pipe up and say, "No...you're not sending the kids out in this weather dressed like that. We'll all wait here."
As an adult at the scene...he is negligent as well. But the father will be the one nailed for it.
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Post by MC Habber on Jan 15, 2009 22:13:53 GMT -5
Unless they were both drunk, on drugs, or severely mentally challenged, I really have a hard time believing their story. In other words, I wonder if there was intent.
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Post by Cranky on Jan 15, 2009 22:33:56 GMT -5
I'd be curious to know what their basis for a murder 2 charge is. It seems like manslaughter in it's purest definition. There was no intent here. There's no way he should be convicted of that. Not to be insensitive, because the father should rightfully be charged, but it certainly sounds like a trumped up charge so they can make a deal for manslaughter. I agree. This was pure stupidity, or the very least gross incompetence but certainly no premeditated intent. If they try to make a murder charge stick and the guy is remorseful on the stand, he can beat the charge and then people will cry that justice is not served. On top of that, he was stuck in snow and without a doubt his lawyer will plead that the situational stress level diminshed his capacity to understand the implications of his actions. |
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Post by CentreHice on Jan 16, 2009 2:58:42 GMT -5
Unless they were both drunk, on drugs, or severely mentally challenged, I really have a hard time believing their story. In other words, I wonder if there was intent. I'm leaning this way as well. |
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Post by Skilly on Jan 16, 2009 8:26:33 GMT -5
Totally beyond comprehension. I wouldn't let an adult walk 10 miles in those conditions, let alone a child. It's difficult to believe anyone could be that stupid.
Mr Quintana described how he and Mr Aragon stayed behind to free the vehicle and then searched for the children for at least four hours with towels wrapped around their heads. They stopped as hypothermia set in.
Let's see .... 10 miles = 16 kilometers. For starters I wouldn't let a child walk that far on a bright sunny day, let alone a snow storm, but let's follow this guy's logic. Knee deep snow. Snow drifts. It takes the average ADULT about 10 minutes to walk a kilometer in perfect conditions. So walking 16 kilometers in a snow storm, where the snow was knee deep, would probably take about 5 hours ... with PAJAMAS and TENNIS SHOES on!!! But there was no way of knowing that they could freeze to death? And this excuse about the mother was supossedly suppose to meet them in her imaginary vehicle... well, YOU got stuck, so logically a reasonable person would think that maybe SHE couldn't get through either .... and since you had no idea where this woman was, the humane thing to do, the thing a reasonable parent would do, was keep those kinds in the car where it is WARM!! Oh ... you poor man ... "your honour, we had to stop I tell you, we were getting hypothermia" ... did you give those children that option?? And you were smart enough to wrap towels around your own head, but lacked the mental capacity to understand that your children might freeze to death being under-dressed in a snowsotrm?? Give me a f*&^in break !!! I am not saying there was intent here but there was gross negligence. A few things I would like to know though would be 1) how long did it take them to free this vehicle and 2) when did they start feeling cold while trying to free the vehicle ...... I mean if they are cold, imagine how those poor youngstres felt? ********************************************************** A personal story from this morning .... It is bitter cold here today. No snowstrom mind you. But our cold in Newfoundland is different from the cold on the mainland. The ocean makes it a damp cold. You can't see the schoolbus from inside my house very good, so I have to trudge up my steps to the side of the road with my daughter. And we wait about 5 to 10 minutes for it every morning. And of course, I have to take my 2 yr old up with me, since I can't realistically leave her in the house by herself .... ... well this morning after about 1 minute, my 2 yr old started to complain (bundled up in a winter jacket, scarf, snow boots, mitts) that she was cold. And I could see she was shaking. Did I leave her out in the cold? No ... I got her inside as soon as I could ... it's what parents do, we protect our kids, we don't willingly put them in harm's way .... ... I am utterly disgusted at this man ... |
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