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Post by blny on Feb 14, 2009 15:17:04 GMT -5
I'm sure I'm not the only one to have heard rumours of Montreal and Phoenix talking. I'm watching TSN's broadcast from last night on the NHL network today. It was a big part of talk in the 1st intermission. It was also part of Hockey Central on Sportsnet last night.
HC was talking strictly Derek Morris for the most part. Slagged Morris saying that if Montreal is looking for serious help on the back end, he isn't it. They threw Jovo's name out there.
TSN last night mentioned that Olli Jokinen is apparently available. That seems odd to me seeing as they spent a lot to get him from Florida last Summer.
My take? The Morris name makes sense when strictly thinking of the cap. His contract ($3.95m and UFA after this year) pretty much matches Lang's. I don't see how Montreal makes a deal for Morris/Jovo and Jokinen. Jovo makes $6m this year and next. Yikes. Jokinen has another year at $5.50m. It's a lot of money to take on.
I don't see how we can take two players without moving salary out, and who are the Coyotes going to want? TSN claims 'yotes management wants to do a real hockey deal, not a dump. That tells me they're willing to take money back. That said, WHO are they gonna take from us? Tanguay, who isn't healthy? Higgins?
With Lang out we can take on about $4m in annual salary right? IF the deal were Morris alone we could do that and it wouldn't cost more than a draft pick(s). If it's Morris and Jokinen, that's $9.2m in salary to make room for. So, we have to find $5.2m to go to Phoenix to make it work. Higgins is $1.9m. He's an RFA. Tanguay is a UFA. We send them one UFA for another (if it's Morris) that's a wash. We send an RFA for Jokinen and we're obviously going to have to sweeten the pot.
Then it's "do you want Olli?"
Someone can likely analyze the cap implications better than I, but it's a lot to digest. If it is in the works, I don't think it happens over night. Might have to work at it up to the deadline.
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Post by Skilly on Feb 14, 2009 16:11:21 GMT -5
The Habs have $550,000 in cap space available right now. At the deadline that will be about 2.6 million in annual cap space.
We do not have Lang on LTI yet do we? Do we have to wait the 10 days or some amount of time? I am not sure about when LTI kicks in, but using the deadline again as a benchmark, there would be $840,000 left on Lang's contract this year. That would be equivalent to 4 million in annual salary.
So that's 6.6 million available in annual cap space right now.
Higgins cap hit is 1.7 million
Jokinen+Morris' cap hit = 9.167
Subtract the contract leaves us short by 7.467 .... so we'd have to move 0.867 in annual cap space with Higgins to make it work. (Plekanec = 1.566 is the likely candidate along with picks and prospects if the rumour is true)
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Post by blny on Feb 14, 2009 16:52:56 GMT -5
Pleks going the other way makes sense to us, but would they take him?
What's their cap situation? Do they need enough money back for the deal to make sense on their end?
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Post by CrocRob on Feb 14, 2009 17:36:10 GMT -5
I kind of agree with Guy that if this team goes anywhere, this guy will be leading them.. but think Phoenix would take Kovalev back along with a few other things? Expiring contracts might be useful to Phoenix, but no doubt there are plenty of those available.
Not that Jokinen has proven to be much of a leader anywhere in his career (thus far), but he's a quality center in much the same mold as Koivu (though has the size to compete the way Koivu does).
Morris.. well I'm not his biggest fan. He's kind of good, I guess. In the way that Brisebois is good. Formerly a PP goal king. Now more of a jester.
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Post by blny on Feb 14, 2009 22:10:41 GMT -5
Jovo would give us more mean and nasty, but 6 mill is wayyy to much to take on for another season. If the deal were expiring, perhaps.
I think Jokinen did a pretty good job leading a piss pour Florida team. He's struggled this year, but perhaps playing with Koivu rejuvenates him. As a bonus, he always seems to play well in Montreal.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Feb 16, 2009 12:07:50 GMT -5
On Jokkinen is it a coincidence that the Panthers are much more driven this year without him... Are the Coyotes better since his arrival? Early in his career that player was tagged as lazy and moody and only took the next step because Keennan beat him up into the player he is now. How much of that disinterested player is still left in him? How much of a high maintenance player is he? Do we want a guy that drives the team or yet another player that needs to be driven... Sure he's big, talented and physical but he doesn't strike me as guy who'd fit well being given a huge role in hockey crazed Montreal.
I'd take either Morris or Jovo in a heartbeat.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Feb 16, 2009 12:37:39 GMT -5
On Jokkinen is it a coincidence that the Panthers are much more driven this year without him... Are the Coyotes better since his arrival? Early in his career that player was tagged as lazy and moody and only took the next step because Keennan beat him up into the player he is now. How much of that disinterested player is still left in him? How much of a high maintenance player is he? Do we want a guy that drives the team or yet another player that needs to be driven... Sure he's big, talented and physical but he doesn't strike me as guy who'd fit well being given a huge role in hockey crazed Montreal. I'd take either Morris or Jovo in a heartbeat. Thought the same thing not too long ago, Doc. Could be addition by subtraction. Would be interesting to see a one-two Finnish punch, no? The only thing for me is, what is he like when things go wrong? Does he pack up and hibernate, or does he take the bull by the horns? Cheers. |
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Post by blny on Feb 16, 2009 15:17:29 GMT -5
Doc, I've wondered the same thing about him. It's why I mentioned it in my original post. I think Koivu around provides inspiration and motivation, if he's lacking it. He's had a tough year this year. Not fit in well at all in Phoenix. Calgary was mentioned as a possible suitor, likely because of the Keenan connection.
If he can fit in I think it's a good pick up, but you have to be sure. Working out the money implications is something else.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Feb 16, 2009 19:53:46 GMT -5
Doc, I've wondered the same thing about him. It's why I mentioned it in my original post. I think Koivu around provides inspiration and motivation, if he's lacking it. He's had a tough year this year. Not fit in well at all in Phoenix. Calgary was mentioned as a possible suitor, likely because of the Keenan connection. If he can fit in I think it's a good pick up, but you have to be sure. Working out the money implications is something else. ...and no matter how you spin it, he's a huge upgrade over Plekaneks. |
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Post by blny on Feb 16, 2009 21:39:14 GMT -5
Doc, I've wondered the same thing about him. It's why I mentioned it in my original post. I think Koivu around provides inspiration and motivation, if he's lacking it. He's had a tough year this year. Not fit in well at all in Phoenix. Calgary was mentioned as a possible suitor, likely because of the Keenan connection. If he can fit in I think it's a good pick up, but you have to be sure. Working out the money implications is something else. ...and no matter how you spin it, he's a huge upgrade over Plekaneks. For sure. |
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Post by Marvin on Feb 16, 2009 22:04:19 GMT -5
Morris would be a monumental mistake. I saw him for three years in Calgary, and he is extremely error-prone. Whatever offensive potential he once possessed has disappeared.
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Post by blny on Feb 16, 2009 22:18:46 GMT -5
Morris would be a monumental mistake. I saw him for three years in Calgary, and he is extremely error-prone. Whatever offensive potential he once possessed has disappeared. That's all I'm hearing. I don't know how he's been in Phoenix, but I've heard panels say he's not the cure for Montreal's back end. |
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Post by Marvin on Feb 16, 2009 22:26:09 GMT -5
He's a -10 in Phoenix. Mind you that entire team is in a free-fall.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Feb 17, 2009 0:39:48 GMT -5
He's a -10 in Phoenix. Mind you that entire team is in a free-fall. I don't think Morris is the cure for the back end. Not sure if Jokinen is the cure for the size up the middle, but I sure wanted him when the rumours first came out this summer that Florida was shopping him. He does not seem to have fit into that leader/mentor role with all those young up-an-coming forwards though, so maybe Phoenix is looking for a change of scenery kind of deal and could ask for a change of scenery player(s) back in return. We have a few who qualify. |
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Post by CrocRob on Feb 23, 2009 15:43:05 GMT -5
Courtesy of TSN (link in deadline thread):
- The Ottawa Sun reports that the Coyotes have shopped Olli Jokinen, Derek Morris and Ed Jovanovski. The New York Post reports that the Devils may have interest in Morris or Jovanovski.
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Post by BadCompany on Feb 27, 2009 9:38:33 GMT -5
Bob Mackenzie was on the Team 990 this morning and did not have a lot of positive things to say about Jokinen. Paraphrasing, but he said that pro scouts were very disappointed in how Jokinen played down the stretch last year, when Florida was trying to make the playoffs, and again pointed out how he has no playoff experience. Said he has been a huge disappointment in Phoenix, that he always disappoints when placed in a #1 or #2 role and is better suited as a #3 center (I thought THAT was pretty harsh, given Jokinen's numbers) and that his contract and numbers don't really justify the cost it would take to get him. Mackenzie basically said that if he was a GM he would not be looking at Jokinen as a solution.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Feb 27, 2009 10:21:49 GMT -5
Courtesy of TSN (link in deadline thread): - The Ottawa Sun reports that the Coyotes have shopped Olli Jokinen, Derek Morris and Ed Jovanovski. The New York Post reports that the Devils may have interest in Morris or Jovanovski.Either one of those two defencemen would have helped us out, Red. Odd about Jokinen though. BC mentioned what Bob MacKenzie said about him, but I also remember a few posters here on the board mentioning the same thing about him a while back; you know, disappearing when things get close to the playoffs. Cheers. |
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Post by CrocRob on Feb 27, 2009 10:28:17 GMT -5
Courtesy of TSN (link in deadline thread): - The Ottawa Sun reports that the Coyotes have shopped Olli Jokinen, Derek Morris and Ed Jovanovski. The New York Post reports that the Devils may have interest in Morris or Jovanovski.Either one of those two defencemen would have helped us out, Red. Odd about Jokinen though. BC mentioned what Bob MacKenzie said about him, but I also remember a few posters here on the board mentioning the same thing about him a while back; you know, disappearing when things get close to the playoffs. Cheers. Jokinen's never been in the playoffs, so it's difficult to say how he'd react once he actually got there. |
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Post by Boston_Habs on Feb 27, 2009 11:19:54 GMT -5
We can aruge on the merits of Jokinen the player... I think he can probably be had for a decent price so we would shore up a position of need and not have a ton of downside, other than the $5.2 million we would be on the hook for the next 2 seasons. But then I look at that and the pending UFA exodus and having a guy like Jokinen locked up at that price makes some sense. It's relatively short money (Gainey seems to like short term deals) and I do think the effect of having Koivu on the roster could help both players.
I don't know, maybe it pays to be a bit contrarian here. It seems everyone, McKenzie, etc., is slagging Jokinen in the media which only brings his value down and reduces, maybe, the number of suitors. Phoenix is a total mess right now, I think they are very motivated to shed big ticket players and Jokinen has underperformed anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2009 11:48:11 GMT -5
Odd about Jokinen though. BC mentioned what Bob MacKenzie said about him, but I also remember a few posters here on the board mentioning the same thing about him a while back; you know, disappearing when things get close to the playoffs. Cheers. When all you play for are non-playoff teams, it has to affect your psyche some way or another. |
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Post by jkr on Feb 27, 2009 16:39:22 GMT -5
We can aruge on the merits of Jokinen the player... I think he can probably be had for a decent price so we would shore up a position of need and not have a ton of downside, other than the $5.2 million we would be on the hook for the next 2 seasons. But then I look at that and the pending UFA exodus and having a guy like Jokinen locked up at that price makes some sense. It's relatively short money (Gainey seems to like short term deals) and I do think the effect of having Koivu on the roster could help both players. I don't know, maybe it pays to be a bit contrarian here. It seems everyone, McKenzie, etc., is slagging Jokinen in the media which only brings his value down and reduces, maybe, the number of suitors. Phoenix is a total mess right now, I think they are very motivated to shed big ticket players and Jokinen has underperformed anyway. I'm surprised too, McKenzie doesn't usually slag guys like that. Didn't people say the same thing about Luongo when he was in Florida, no playoff experience? Montreal badly needs a transition plan at centre. Jokinen is only 30, has always put up nice numbers & is signed for the next 2 years. If he's available at the rigth price, he's very much worth a shot. |
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Post by CrocRob on Feb 27, 2009 22:08:34 GMT -5
More Jokinen to Montreal talk from TSN tonight during the 2nd intermission. Apparently Minnesota, Calgary and Columbus also pursuing Jokinen.
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Post by CrocRob on Mar 2, 2009 10:22:19 GMT -5
Derek Morris has seemingly played his last game as a Yote. They're going to sit him until he's traded so he doesn't get injured. (Heard it on the radio, so take a grain of salt).
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Post by CrocRob on Mar 3, 2009 22:50:56 GMT -5
Pierre Lebrun reporting on ESPN.com Cap knocks Habs out of Jokinen sweepstakes
Tuesday, March 3, 2009 | Feedback | Print Entry
A quick update from the restaurant here in Bristol, puck heads. We were told Tuesday night that the Montreal Canadiens were no longer in the bidding for Olli Jokinen.
A source told ESPN.com that the Habs felt they couldn't pull it off for cap reasons. Jokinen earns $5.25 million this season and $5.5 million next season.
The Habs do have a bit of cap room left but would have to move a player or two to accommodate Jokinen.
There remains strong interest for Jokinen elsewhere, however, and he may still move Wednesday.sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?name=lebrun_pierre |
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Post by blny on Mar 4, 2009 7:16:03 GMT -5
So, Bob doesn't want to make a hockey trade then.
The cap isn't the issue. There will be plenty of room next year. Lots of players unsigned.
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Post by Douper on Mar 4, 2009 7:27:33 GMT -5
So, Bob doesn't want to make a hockey trade then. The cap isn't the issue. There will be plenty of room next year. Lots of players unsigned. I doubt Gainey leaked any of this. But I also doubt Bob makes any move except moving Dandenault. Too bad really cause with the locker room cleansing that will be done this summer it's the best time to add the big Super Star Centre. |
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Post by Skilly on Mar 4, 2009 8:04:21 GMT -5
Pierre Lebrun reporting on ESPN.com Cap knocks Habs out of Jokinen sweepstakes
Tuesday, March 3, 2009 | Feedback | Print Entry
A quick update from the restaurant here in Bristol, puck heads. We were told Tuesday night that the Montreal Canadiens were no longer in the bidding for Olli Jokinen.
A source told ESPN.com that the Habs felt they couldn't pull it off for cap reasons. Jokinen earns $5.25 million this season and $5.5 million next season.
The Habs do have a bit of cap room left but would have to move a player or two to accommodate Jokinen.
There remains strong interest for Jokinen elsewhere, however, and he may still move Wednesday.sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?name=lebrun_pierreWell if this is true, then I don't understand the cap. We are trying to trade Dandy .... if no takers, then waive him. Getting Jokinen is gonna cost us a player on the roster. If we waive Dandy we'd have $869,000. Jokinen is only owed about $1.1 million. So Bob doesn't want to trade someone to take $231,000 off our current books?? Sure that's almost every player on the roster .... |
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Post by CrocRob on Mar 4, 2009 8:07:11 GMT -5
I'm not so convinced we have that much cap room.
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Post by CentreHice on Mar 4, 2009 9:12:56 GMT -5
Maguire says Gainey HAS to make the Jokinen deal happen. If there's any question that he's a locker room problem...Koivu is so well-respected as a Finnish star, that he'll keep him in line.
Maguire's words...not mine.
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Post by Douper on Mar 4, 2009 9:29:26 GMT -5
Maguire says Gainey HAS to make the Jokinen deal happen. If there's any question that he's a locker room problem...Koivu is so well-respected as a Finnish star, that he'll keep him in line. Maguire's words...not mine. It would be a risky move. Not sold on Jokinen as a good fit in any locker room. I thought he and Doan would be lights out this year, but now they want to get rid of him already?  |
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