H1N1

[ValkyrieNS]

Nov 4, 2009 10:19:45 GMT -5 habernac said:

They did nothing wrong. The clinics were all open to everyone... [snip]

Since you're in Calgary, you would know better than me, but can you answer the following question:

Are your clinics not restricted to
1) pregnant women
2) children under 5
3) aboriginal/native people
4) front-line health-care workers?

That's how things stand in Nova Scotia. If you don't fall into one of the 4 categories above, you don't get the vaccine, plain and simple. Personally, I don't care because I don't want it

[habernac]

Nov 4, 2009 10:32:56 GMT -5 ValkyrieNS said:

Nov 4, 2009 10:19:45 GMT -5 habernac said:

They did nothing wrong. The clinics were all open to everyone... [snip]

Since you're in Calgary, you would know better than me, but can you answer the following question:

Are your clinics not restricted to
1) pregnant women
2) children under 5
3) aboriginal/native people
4) front-line health-care workers?

That's how things stand in Nova Scotia. If you don't fall into one of the 4 categories above, you don't get the vaccine, plain and simple. Personally, I don't care because I don't want it

They weren't restricted at all last week, they were open to everyone. Alberta Health Services totally blew it on this whole deal. The lineups were brutal, we only had 4 clinics. The president of the team made a call a week ago and AHS agreed to get the team vaccinated privately. Alberta Health Services wears the horns on this deal.

They ended up closing the clinics this weekend and they've now opened them up to high risk people only.

[Disgruntled70sHab]

Nov 4, 2009 10:19:45 GMT -5 habernac said:

Nov 4, 2009 8:59:46 GMT -5 franko said:

bonehead move by the Flames, pure and simple.

speaks of privileged sports "heroes" . . . isn't going over well and it shouldn't.

And the excuse hockey players are at an elevated infection risk due to their physical contact is lame.

They did nothing wrong. The clinics were all open to everyone, the team president made a call asking to get his guys vaccinated. You want to blame someone, take aim at Alberta Health Services. All they had to do was say no. They didn't. This is political grandstanding by the Liberals, plain and simple.

Someone, somewhere in the Alberta Health Services gave the OK and I hope they track where and at what level that decision was made. I know the top dog didn't know anything about it and he can't defend the decision:

... Dr. Andre Corriveau, Alberta's chief medical officer, said he was unaware of the team receiving any vaccine, noting none has yet been delivered to doctors' offices.

"We learned about it in the newspaper," he said, adding he could say little else because the matter's being probed.

Said Dr. Gerry Predy, Alberta Health Services' chief medical officer: "It's unfortunate -- I can't defend it."

Franko, there was another case in Ottawa about a Senator hockey player going ahead of the line for treatment. By chance do you remember who that was?

Cheers.

[CrocRob]

I think it's the same as here in Ontario. The clinics aren't "open" to everyone, but they aren't turning anyone away. I know locally here they had to close the clinic yesterday because they ran out of vaccine, turning away a couple hundred people.

[CrocRob]

Nov 4, 2009 8:59:46 GMT -5 franko said:

bonehead move by the Flames, pure and simple.

speaks of privileged sports "heroes" . . . isn't going over well and it shouldn't.

And the excuse hockey players are at an elevated infection risk due to their physical contact is lame.

If it had just been the Flames, I don't think it's a big deal. The players are at a relatively high risk due to the amount of travel, physical exertion which can lower immune response, contact with other people, and close quarters with teammates.

The problem is that they vaccinated their families too.

I don't understand why the rollout of this vaccine was so horribly arranged. They should have rolled it out incrementally. Start with Hospitals and doctors, vaccinating the staff and patients in beds first, then roll it out in daycares, then schools to vaccinate children and teachers. Provide it to GPs to vaccinate ONLY children under 5, and pregnant mothers.

Instead the decision to cattle-cart everyone was made. I don't need the vaccine, but if I did I wouldn't get it because standing in that specific line of people -- some of whom are probably sick and hope the vaccine will help cure them -- is the perfect way to GET sick.

They made a smart decision to include parents of children under 6 months this week. Those kids aren't eligible to get the vaccine so it makes sense to protect them. It also serves my purposes, since I have a 6 week old nephew.

[franko]

Nov 4, 2009 10:51:35 GMT -5 Disgruntled70sHab said:

Franko, there was another case in Ottawa about a Senator hockey player going ahead of the line for treatment. By chance do you remember who that was?

Danny Heatley?

No, I don't remember who but I do remember the incident . . . not just here, but in Montreal and Toronto in the past too.

Then again, even Smilin' Jack has jumped the queue and gone to a private clinic for immediate treatment.

Then, of course, there is Heddy Frye, who thinks that our MPs should have been first in line.

My biggest problem with the Flames jumping the queue is that they didn't jump the queue -- they simply made their own. It comes across as elitism and self-importance.

[habernac]

How is it elitism and self importance to look after your organization? It's just good business. If Alberta Health Services had done this correctly from the get go, there would be no problem. But they didn't. the Flames made a call, AHS said "sure, no problem!" Alberta Health Services blew it here. If they say no, there's no issue. They didn't.

[Skilly]

Nov 4, 2009 9:59:41 GMT -5 ValkyrieNS said:

Both my nephews, who are younger than 5, are now immunized, so that's all I really care about. Even if I catch it now, they won't and that's what's important to me [and I get to avoid a needle, so I'm even happier ]

This is something I am struggling with in my decision. Getting this vaccine does not immunize you to H1N1. It is there best guess as to the "second wave strain" of the virus. Viruses are always mutating.

When you get a flu shot it is a flu shot based on the previous year's flu strain. So a person getting a flu shot in 2009, is getting a vaccine based on the 2008 flu. H1N1 was developed very quickly and there was no H1N1 in last's year's flu season (not like now anyway). The only data they have is April's first wave, and the flu season in Austrailia/New Zealand (which was actually mild, and the Aussie government did not offer insurance to doctors administering the H1N1 vaccine, because it was so experimental). I've read somewhere, and I'd like to know if this is true, but I've read that this vaccine designed for protection against H1N1 is based on the bird flu , which is H5N1. So Canada's H1N1 vaccine is water, Vitamin E, Squaline oil, and dead H5N1 cells? The squaline is used in the adjuvant, which promotes the immune system to respond quicker ... why is this important? Because that means the vaccine is now cheaper for the company making this vaccine. Adjuvants have never been FDA approved in the USA, or approved by Health Canada, for use in flu shots until H1N1 .... that alone has me a little leery.

I've also read, on Dr. Mercato's website, that squaline oil has been linked to Gulf War Syndrome. The soldiers over there received shots which contain squaline, and this H1N1 shot has 1 million times more squaline than the shot those soldiers received. Squaline is presumably also being linked to deformed births ...

Most of the stuff you read is borderline fear mongering, but it is hard to know what to do ... both my kids are in the high risk groups. A child under 5, and a 6yr that has had pneumonia 8 times in the past 2 years because of asthma complications. My wife, used the logic, "better safe than sorry, and if anything happened I'd never forgive myself" .... Well that logic works both ways ...what if you give it to them and this experimental vaccine (because thats exactly what it is ... experimental) has complications (it has happened in the past with many drugs that were rushed to market too quickly). Anyway, the long and short of it is, that both my kids at my wife's insistence were vaccinated on Monday , and Tuesday my 3 yr old had a fever of 40.4C, which she is still out of daycare because of ... a few people here in Newfoundland have had their kids show real adverse side effects to this shot.

Also, you are not "immune" until 10 days after the shot ... and children were first thought that they may need a booster since they are only receiving half a dose, but they have since said children will not require a booster.

[ValkyrieNS]

Nov 4, 2009 13:39:08 GMT -5 Skilly said:

Viruses are always mutating.

Another reason why I don't believe in flu shots, of any kind.

Nov 4, 2009 13:39:08 GMT -5 Skilly said:

I've also read, on Dr. Mercato's website, that squaline oil has been linked to Gulf War Syndrome. The soldiers over there received shots which contain squaline, and this H1N1 shot has 1 million times more squaline than the shot those soldiers received. Squaline is presumably also being linked to deformed births ...

Lovely... just lovely

Nov 4, 2009 13:39:08 GMT -5 Skilly said:

my 3 yr old had a fever of 40.4C, which she is still out of daycare because of ...

I hope your little one is feeling better now, poor thing!

Nov 4, 2009 13:39:08 GMT -5 Skilly said:

Also, you are not "immune" until 10 days after the shot ... and children were first thought that they may need a booster since they are only receiving half a dose, but they have since said children will not require a booster.

And this has me leery as well... make up your minds, people! Kids were supposed to get a half dose then another half dose 21 days later, but now, nope. Pregnant women were supposed to wait for the non-adjuvanted version (geez, is that even a word?) and now, not quite so much, depending on who you talk to.

Like you said, this vaccine is experimental, there are no clinical trials on which to base long-term problems/issues/whatever... I truly don't think anyone really knows what they're doing. And if I was pregnant, I don't know if I would even get the shot. I think just the fact that we know next to nothing about this vaccine's long-term effects would make me not want to get it. But I'm not pregnant, so the point is moot.

[cigarviper]

Oct 30, 2009 9:12:34 GMT -5 Disgruntled70sHab said:

Major pushes on now here at work. We have PATs (persons awaiting training) are going around disinfecting door knobs and handles daily. The cleaners dropped off some disinfectant for our office here for wiping down the desks, keyboards and phones.

We've had one fatality due to H1N1 here in Kingston already. Don't know any of the particulars; where she first contracted it, etc.

Having said that, I went out for breakfast with some of the lads from work; Friday routine. There was plenty of bacon, ham and sausage at our table. There might be a real risk out there, but we could only take the paranoia so far. Unless there's a real proven threat in the Kingston area, it's not stopping us from eating what we want.

Cheers.

Edit: the lady was from Newboro Ontario. It's not too far from Kingston. Sadly, she was only 52.

Dis, CFLRS in St Jean is immunizing everyone that wants it. They've had an outbreak and quarantined some affected soldiers.

[CrocRob]

A senior staff member for Alberta Health Services was fired for giving the Calgary Flames swine flu shots while thousands of people waited in line for the vaccine last week.

Read more: sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/hockey/nhl/11/04/flames.swine.flu.ap/index.html#ixzz0VzuCJHQg

[Cranky]

I just got an e-mail about H1N1. Apparently, if you take one Viagra pill every 12 hours, you're too busy to worry about swines or flus.

I'm gonna try it......

[duster]

I read this morning that the virus can be caught by household cats. Not sure what to think of that.

Overall, I think BC is doing a fair job distributing the vaccine. At least , they seem to be in my area ( Lower Mainland). Most of us who meet the criteria received the shot through our GP. In my small community, there are several clinics open for those who don't have a GP. It doesn't seem to be as chaotic here as in other provinces.

That said, I had some serious reservations before getting the shot. As Skilly points out, the virus mutates and the adjuvant itself is enough to make one hesitant. We have a five week old at home and both my wife and I have compromised immune systems, so we felt that we had no choice. Since getting the shot, my wife has been ill but not seriously. Others such as myself have had no side effects. I'm curious why that is?

Norway has allowed antivirals such as Tamiflu to be made available over the counter. Now that seems quite sensible to me. Perhaps our government should follow suit.

[BadCompany]

I think this is a bad case of politicians acting outraged and demanding public inquiries and the media fear-mongering without any facts. It’s easy to say “those spoiled, rich athletes, using their money and clout to jump the line” when it’s possible that there are good reasons why they jumped the line, few of which have to do with them being spoiled and rich. Or the fear that they are going to keel over in the middle of a hockey game, possibly right before Coach’s Corner.

In my opinion there is some confusion over the difference between high RISK and high PRIORITY. There is a subtle but important distinction. One of the first groups to be vaccinated are people with young children under the age of 6 months. The parent’s aren’t necessarily themselves high RISK – heck, they may even be professional athletes – but the baby that lives with them is, and therefore the parents become high PRIORTIY.

I believe that professional athletes are at a greater risk of catching the virus than your stereotypical office drone, who spends his day in the car, then in a Purell-scented cubicle, and then in his car again. Professional athletes share buses, dressing rooms, water bottles and soapy showers (in a non-gay way, of course). We’ve seen it happen; when one of them gets sick they all get sick. Cost us the playoffs one year, they say. But moving beyond that, professional athletes, especially hockey players in hockey-mad Canadian cities, also have a greater exposure to the great unwashed masses. They get off the bus, and people want autographs, they are approached when they are out eating dinner, they walk off the ice in between periods and hordes of kids lean over the railing trying to get a sweaty high-five. If you are Chris Higgins, raving, foaming-at-the-mouth lunatics scream spittle-and-flu-laden obscenities at you at gas stations. A professional athlete may have a greater chance of coming into contact with somebody with the virus than the typical Regular Joe the politicians are currently so aggrieved for.

“So what?” you say. Aren’t they in excellent shape, better able to withstand the virus and all that? Yes, they are. They may be high RISK when it comes to contracting the virus, but they are not high RISK when it comes to actually dying from it. But that doesn’t necessarily mean that they are not high PRIORITY for the three month old baby reasons explained above. How many times, I wonder, has a professional athlete had somebody come up to them and say “my son is a huge fan of yours, he’s really sick, would you mind signing this for him?” Alex Kovalev famously fills a luxury box full of sick kids before every home game, kids he meets, hugs, poses for pictures with. Be rather tragic if Kovalev wiped out a box full of sick kids because he didn’t get the flu vaccine, wouldn’t it? Brian Gionta and Scott Gomez have since taken over the suite in Montreal, and hey, didn’t Gomez miss practice because of flu-like symptoms not too long ago?

But what about that whole bit about being vaccinated in, for lack of a better word, a “private” clinic before the vaccine was available to the general public? I admit, the optics are bad, but they are not the only group that was vaccinated in a “private” clinic like that. Health care workers, for example, were all vaccinated in “private” before the general public. With good reason, of course. Because of the nature of their jobs they are much more likely to not only come in contact with somebody who has the virus, but to then transmit the virus to somebody else who is perhaps not able to deal with it. Health care workers are not high RISK, but they are high PRIORITY. Because of the very nature of their jobs.

And that is my long winded way of getting to the actual question; it’s not “did professional athletes use their power, influence and money to jump to the front of the line?” The real question is “Are professional athletes, because of the very nature of their jobs, a high PRIORITY to be vaccinated because of the danger they pose to high RISK individuals?”

[franko]

its all about optics and pampered rich athletes [Leafs getting the shot not going over well in Toronto].

handled poorly

[CentreHice]

The wealthy, rich, powerful, and privileged (what have you) have always been/will always be first in line (actually, there is no line for them) for anything deemed necessary.

I'm still skeptical of this whole frenzy.

Don't more people die of the regular flu every year?

And it raises a red flag that the U.S. government gave legal immunity to Baxter, Novartis in advance for any injury and death caused by the H1N1 vaccine.

Article

Not a bad deal, if you can get it.

[MC Habber]

Nov 5, 2009 10:59:56 GMT -5 duster said:

I read this morning that the virus can be caught by household cats. Not sure what to think of that.

Apparently cats are unlikely to get it, and if they do get it, are very unlikely to pass it to humans. Ferrets are another story....

blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/11/06/can-your-pet-catch-spread-swine-flu-if-your-pets-a-ferret/

[cigarviper]

I was told of a private clinic in the U.S. offering a new "health evaluation" service which includes the H1N1 shot for a mere $2300.

[Disgruntled70sHab]

Nov 6, 2009 10:08:56 GMT -5 BadCompany said:

I think this is a bad case of politicians acting outraged and demanding public inquiries and the media fear-mongering without any facts.

Well, there are some who are making a fortune off this hype. Who knows; maybe they're the ones feeding the media. It's certainly out there, but the abundance of fear you're talking about could mask just how widespread this really is.

Fear = control = consuming.

Other side of the coin; I have a niece (the basketballer turned teacher) in Ottawa and a cousin in Whitby who are both recovering from H1N1. Mrs Dis also works in a pharmacy that can't keep their shelves stocked of certain items; thermometers, etc. All three of them are pretty much convinced it's a reality.

Cheers.

[Skilly]

Mrs. Skilly went to a flu assessment clinic on Thursday and was told "You have influenza, most probably H1N1" She hasnt eaten since Thursday and it takes all the energy she has to just walk the 15-20 feet to our master bathroom ... I've never seen her this sick.

The two kids got sick the next day after getting the vaccine, and I am a little under the weather, but nothing like her ....

[ValkyrieNS]

Nov 7, 2009 14:46:23 GMT -5 Skilly said:

Mrs. Skilly went to a flu assessment clinic on Thursday and was told "You have influenza, most probably H1N1" She hasnt eaten since Thursday and it takes all the energy she has to just walk the 15-20 feet to our master bathroom ... I've never seen her this sick.

The two kids got sick the next day after getting the vaccine, and I am a little under the weather, but nothing like her ....

I hope Mrs Skilly is feeling better soon... she's got it worse than your kids, poor woman!

[Disgruntled70sHab]

Nov 7, 2009 14:46:23 GMT -5 Skilly said:

Mrs. Skilly went to a flu assessment clinic on Thursday and was told "You have influenza, most probably H1N1" She hasnt eaten since Thursday and it takes all the energy she has to just walk the 15-20 feet to our master bathroom ... I've never seen her this sick.

The two kids got sick the next day after getting the vaccine, and I am a little under the weather, but nothing like her ....

Best to the Mrs, Skilly. Here's for a speedy recovery.

Dis

[franko]

Best wishes and here's to fast recovery [ies] . . . take care of that lady!

[CentreHice]

All the best to your household, Skilly.

[seventeen]

My neighbour is an ER doc, and he was telling me that one thing that's noticeable about swine flu (I can't spell H1N1), is the high fever that goes with it and the fact people can tell exactly when it started, cause it seems to come on very quickly.

I'm still confused as to when it's a 'every day' flu or something else.

[seventeen]

Nov 4, 2009 12:41:56 GMT -5 franko said:

Then, of course, there is Heddy Frye, who thinks that our MPs should have been first in line.

I would think politicians are the 'occupation' least missed by society should they become extinct. Well, on second thought, there would be a few others in heavy contention, but I won't go into that.

[goingfornumber25]

On average 120 people die everyday in the US from traffic accidents. Since april approx 1,000 americans have died from swine flu, and approx 21,600 from traffic accidents. Buckle up while you go and get your shot! The virus would have a long way to go to match the roughly 36,000 deaths that seasonal influenza causes in the United States each year.

[Skilly]

Nov 9, 2009 18:52:21 GMT -5 goingfornumber25 said:

On average 120 people die everyday in the US from traffic accidents. Since april approx 1,000 americans have died from swine flu, and approx 21,600 from traffic accidents. Buckle up while you go and get your shot! The virus would have a long way to go to match the roughly 36,000 deaths that seasonal influenza causes in the United States each year.

I agree that the swine flu, or H1N1, has a long way to go to match the 5,000 deaths that occur each year in Canada from seasonal influenza. I believe we are now a little over 100 deaths in Canada? The Public Health Agency of Canada currently lists Swine Flu deaths at 115, as of November 5th. And the Australian flu season, I believe wasn't as bad as they were expecting.

The thing that scares people about this flu ... is the percent of people dying with no underlying illnesses, the number of people dying who are under 65, and the number of children dying under the age of 17.

I couldn't find any Canadian age specific statistics. But the US ones are easy to find. I tracked how many kids (under 17) died of seasonal influenza over the past 5 years. About 70-80 children die of seasonal influenza in the US in any given flu season. In this year's flu season, over 75 (last time I checked) have died of H1N1 already in the US. That's what is scaring parents.

[MC Habber]

Nov 9, 2009 22:18:49 GMT -5 Skilly said:

The thing that scares people about this flu ... is the percent of people dying with no underlying illnesses, the number of people dying who are under 65, and the number of children dying under the age of 17.

(I don't have anything to say about that, I just wanted to reiterate it because it's a critical point that a lot of people seem to be missing.)

[franko]

now that there are few political points to be made about the vaccine [those "at risk" have for the most part had the shot, the lineups are shorter/the hysteria seems to be ended, the second wave seems to be passing without the dire consequenses of not having shots] we'll stop hearing so much about it . . . unless and until someone young dies . . .