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Post by franko on Dec 15, 2009 14:14:59 GMT -5
I could preach say much about how crass and commercial Christmas has become, but I'll refrain [surprising, I know]. Instead I refer you to the advent conspiracy . . . or just watch this [and yes, there is a Christian bent to it . . . after all, that's what are Christmas celebrations were initially about] |
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Post by The New Guy on Dec 15, 2009 19:25:49 GMT -5
I could preach say much about how crass and commercial Christmas has become, but I'll refrain [surprising, I know]. Instead I refer you to the advent conspiracy . . . or just watch this [and yes, there is a Christian bent to it . . . after all, that's what are Christmas celebrations were initially about] Err... Christmas celebrations are actually a mishmash of pagan festivals (Mithras, Juno, some Germanic tree god come to mind) that got absorbed into the early Christian church. Now the secular set have done the same to Christians. Ironic, if nothing else. |
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Post by franko on Dec 15, 2009 21:29:19 GMT -5
No doubt -- ironic is a good word -- though I wouldn't say the secular set but the consumerist set. Read [what I thought was a great article today: to a growing group of Christians, the focus on the commercial aspect of Christmas is the greatest threat to one of Christianity's holiest days. "It's the shopping, the going into debt, the worrying that 'If I don't spend enough money, someone will think I don't love them,' " says Portland, Ore., pastor Rick McKinley. "Christians get all bent out of shape over the fact that someone didn't say 'Merry Christmas' when I walked into the store. But why are we expecting the store to tell our story? That's just ridiculous."You may not care about the religious aspect of Chrsitmas -- that's OK. And you may go up to your eye-balls in debt for Christmas -- that's OK, too -- that's your decision. But when those in the Christian church bemoan the fact that Christimas isn't what they think Christmas should be -- and then jump into it with both feet -- well, that's not OK -- it's inconsisten at best [and boy does the church do inconsistent well!]. And you forgot Saturnalia, the primo celebration [no Festivus then]. |
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Post by Skilly on Dec 15, 2009 22:06:29 GMT -5
I still say we should celebrate Christmas in May - when Jesus was really born .... but that's just me
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Post by franko on Dec 15, 2009 22:57:08 GMT -5
March, Skilly. Or maybe September/ October. Or . . .
Actually, I like December: it distracts from the impeding cold, at least for a while.
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Post by Cranky on Dec 16, 2009 1:14:37 GMT -5
As an atheist, I say we convert some of this holidays into naked pagan rituals. How about we start by eating some babies? bwahahahahahaha  |
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Post by franko on Dec 16, 2009 8:33:24 GMT -5
It was not my intent for this to become [deteriorate into?] a religious discussion [though heaven knows I'm always game for that] . . . just wanted to suggest an alternative to the crass commercialism that Christmas has become. gy, you are most definitely right: many of the Christmas traditions that are celebrated are things that have been assimilated from other cultures/religions [pagans want to keep their traditional activities too, doncha know . . . let's let them and just rename them]. Haven't gone as far as eating babies yet, though early Christians were condemned for cannibalism [eating the body, drinking the blood]. I'm sure I've mentioned the book Son of God to Superstar: Twentieth Century Interpretations of Jesus by John Haralson Hayes [the title says it all] It's out of print, I think -- you can borrow my copy  My favourite chapter: John Allegro's The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross. People believe some weird things, but . . . wow! |
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Post by The New Guy on Dec 16, 2009 9:01:54 GMT -5
You may not care about the religious aspect of Chrsitmas -- that's OK. And you may go up to your eye-balls in debt for Christmas -- that's OK, too -- that's your decision. But when those in the Christian church bemoan the fact that Christimas isn't what they think Christmas should be -- and then jump into it with both feet -- well, that's not OK -- it's inconsisten at best [and boy does the church do inconsistent well!]. Why? I mean honestly I am not a terribly faithful Christian, so maybe I'm not the best commentator. But years of Catholic upbringing/schooling has taught me that, at the very least, Christmas is about sharing a bond with your fellow man. We give gifts, as Melchoir and the other two kings did to show our love for one another (as they showed their love for the Christ child). There's nothing wrong with that. Do some people go overboard? Just as some parents spoil their children, and some people drink too much, some people will spend too much at Christmas. But if done properly, the act still has meaning, still has value. Like I said, maybe I'm not the best person to be commenting on this. Do I spend more money than I should on Christmas? Of course. But in years past my major expense was not Christmas gifts, but on travel (this year, for the first time in six years, I will not be in an airport at Christmas time - huzzah). The AC people say buy one less gift, and while I probably could get away with buying my wife one less gift (I do love to spoil her though) or cutting out the ten dollars I spent on a nice bone for the dog, but other than that - who do I cut out? My parents? My brother and his girlfriend? My in-laws? I'm sorry, but I don't really see how I can not give a gift to any of these people. Not out of obligation, but out of love for them. Is that wrong? I don't think so. And you forgot Saturnalia, the primo celebration [no Festivus then]. And Sol Invictus and a whole host of other festivals. The Jews believed (perhaps still believe) the pagans celebrated festivals around the solstice because Adam, when he saw the days were getting shorter, feared that God in his wrath was unmaking creation. So he fasted leading up to the solstice, and once the days started getting longer, had a celebration. |
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Post by The New Guy on Dec 16, 2009 9:05:42 GMT -5
As an atheist, I say we convert some of this holidays into naked pagan rituals. How about we start by eating some babies? bwahahahahahaha I'm all for the naked pagan rituals (on the provisio that it involves less of you and me naked and more fine looking young ladies naked) but man - you realize that once you announce that pagans eat children all that is out the door. You'll have celebrities showing up on your doorsteps talking about how inhumane it is to eat babies, and they'll show up every year to protest the baby hunt - and in the end no one will want to get naked at all! |
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Post by franko on Dec 16, 2009 10:29:10 GMT -5
I mean honestly I am not a terribly faithful Christian join the rest of us . . . you want perfect don't look this direction! of course, when most people say "faithful Christian" they often mean "go to church every week" [OK, I pass that one ;D ] but when I talk about it I mean compassionate and consistent [and I said I wasn't perfect  !] second, I'd say, to remembering the birth . . . Absolutely nothing wrong with that! still looking for something to disagree with . . . nor do I. I'd say "save a whale" or "buy an acre of rain forest" in their name . . . but that ain't a gift to me. And I like gifts! AC is suggesting that most of us in North America go a little crazy at Christmas. OK, some go a lot crazy. And my wife is "Christmas Girl" -- absolutely loves the day, the festivities, the whole shebang. A couple of years ago she started paying attention to how much she was/we were spending on gifts and last year set a budget for gifts [and no, cutting out children and parents wasn't/isn't an option]. When the tally came she was amazed -- the budget flew out the window because it is just fun to give! I almost expect the same this year. We give -- out of love. In fact, even when there are agreements not to give to one another in the family there is almost always something small going out and invariably something small has come in. That isn't the issue. the issue is the crass commercialism where it is spend spend spend [not just at Christmas now, either]. So cut back a bit if you want. Remember others. Lots of good "causes" in Canada [Salvation Army, food banks, shelters, etc]. Give to them as well. It makes it an even better Christmas. [/diatribe] [oh, and way to go with the spoiling the wife. you know what they say . . . happy wife, happy life!] |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Dec 16, 2009 13:15:18 GMT -5
Where's Toronthab when you need him?
This would bait him into action.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Dec 16, 2009 17:47:22 GMT -5
My wife is very Catholic (whatever that means) and we have more lights than Las Vegas.
I added a modest nativity scene from the 99 cent store.
1. Tiger Woods bobblehead doll with black eve and stitches painted.
2. Multiple provocative barbie dolls.
3. Black Escalade with rear window broken.
4. Tree (branch from main tree) and model fire hydrant.
5. Toy golf clubs for women to stribe bobblehead.
non-commercial total cost around $6.00.
Laughter.....priceless.
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Post by Cranky on Dec 16, 2009 23:33:45 GMT -5
As an atheist, I say we convert some of this holidays into naked pagan rituals. How about we start by eating some babies? bwahahahahahaha I'm all for the naked pagan rituals (on the provisio that it involves less of you and me naked and more fine looking young ladies naked) but man - you realize that once you announce that pagans eat children all that is out the door. You'll have celebrities showing up on your doorsteps talking about how inhumane it is to eat babies, and they'll show up every year to protest the baby hunt - and in the end no one will want to get naked at all! Dammit, I need to figure out all the angles!  |
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Post by Cranky on Dec 16, 2009 23:55:53 GMT -5
It was not my intent for this to become [deteriorate into?] a religious discussion ..... Nahhh....although I'm willing to pay good money to anyone who gets rid of all the lame Christmas music.  About the only thing that is good about X-mas is that we land up getting together with relatives and friends. And the free food.....  Cousin calls..."you guys coming over for Christmas?" Cranky...."what are you serving?" Cousin..."food" Cranky...."is there any chance it will jump up and bite me?" Cousin...."only if your not nice to it" Cranky...."well, okay. I'll bring a club just in case." What? What? I'm a professional at what I do! |
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