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Post by CentreHice on Feb 22, 2010 8:19:58 GMT -5
How elite athletes perform at an Olympic Games should not be a measuring stick of a country. Other variables (health care/education/human rights/social justice/poverty/homelessness, etc.) should far outweigh a competition held every four years. I'm happy for my fellow Canadians when they win...and I'm upset for them when their goal falls short. But the "pride" part (i.e. bragging rights) is waning for me as I get older. I'm happy to be Canadian and I'm proud of what we strive to do for our citizens. Much work to do for sure....but it's a pretty darn nice place to spend your life. To put so much of one's Canadian identity at stake in terms of how our "horses" run in a race is misguided, IMO. Now, the Habs...that's another issue....but even that is waning.  |
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Post by Skilly on Feb 22, 2010 8:38:49 GMT -5
How elite athletes perform at an Olympic Games should not be a measuring stick of a country. Other variables (health care/education/human rights/social justice/poverty/homelessness, etc.) should far outweigh a competition held every four years. I'm happy for my fellow Canadians when they win...and I'm upset for them when their goal falls short. But the "pride" part (i.e. bragging rights) is waning for me as I get older. I'm happy to be Canadian and I'm proud of what we strive to do for our citizens. Much work to do for sure....but it's a pretty darn nice place to spend your life. To put so much of one's Canadian identity at stake in terms of how our "horses" run in a race is misguided, IMO. Now, the Habs...that's another issue....but even that is waning. This isn't about measuring pride or patriotism .... Its about investing millions of taxpayer's money in our athletes and the value of that money. If their placement in the Olympics means little to you, and you are content with them doing their best, then it shouldn't bother you if there is no financial support from the government for them. Canadian athletes complained for years that they would compete better internationally if government financial support was behind them. And the grand daddy of all international competitions is held at home and they prove (just like the NY Rangers) that throwing money at them is not the solution. |
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Post by Skilly on Feb 22, 2010 8:41:39 GMT -5
Question: Men's hockey, qualification playoffs -- I get that the first place team in each group gets a bye (USA, Russia, Sweden) and that everyone else is supposed to play for a spot in the next round. What happened to Finland? Is there an extra bye handed out and they got it? The group leaders (USA, Russia, and Sweden) get a bye , and the best second place team (Finland) gets a bye too ... teams ranked 5th through 12th play off for a quarter finals birth. Canada was ranked 6th and will play the 11th ranked Germans. The winner of that game will play in the 6 vs 3 game against the Russians. |
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Post by CentreHice on Feb 22, 2010 9:18:10 GMT -5
How elite athletes perform at an Olympic Games should not be a measuring stick of a country. Other variables (health care/education/human rights/social justice/poverty/homelessness, etc.) should far outweigh a competition held every four years. I'm happy for my fellow Canadians when they win...and I'm upset for them when their goal falls short. But the "pride" part (i.e. bragging rights) is waning for me as I get older. I'm happy to be Canadian and I'm proud of what we strive to do for our citizens. Much work to do for sure....but it's a pretty darn nice place to spend your life. To put so much of one's Canadian identity at stake in terms of how our "horses" run in a race is misguided, IMO. Now, the Habs...that's another issue....but even that is waning. This isn't about measuring pride or patriotism .... Its about investing millions of taxpayer's money in our athletes and the value of that money. If their placement in the Olympics means little to you, and you are content with them doing their best, then it shouldn't bother you if there is no financial support from the government for them. Canadian athletes complained for years that they would compete better internationally if government financial support was behind them. And the grand daddy of all international competitions is held at home and they prove (just like the NY Rangers) that throwing money at them is not the solution. Yep...I tie little of how I feel about myself as a Canadian to how our athletes do at the Olympics. So, it wouldn't bother me if the government cut back on funding. It's still money spent, win or lose. And even if they win, what's the payoff to Canadians....nothing, same as if they lose. Unless bragging rights is a valuable commodity. I still hope our athletes do well, for their sake, not mine.....they're the ones who've done all the work....and they're the ones who'll benefit most from a medal. They haven't "let me down" if they fail. |
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Post by Polarice on Feb 22, 2010 9:36:48 GMT -5
I would be happy with a top 3 in the medal standings. I think we could be much better, but we've missed out on some events that we should have won medals. ie Skiing, short track.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Feb 22, 2010 10:47:34 GMT -5
Lots of negativity surrounding Canada's performances and possible future performances. I'm disappointed in some of our performances, sure. But there's a lot to celebrate too. There's a few human interest and celebrating going on in the Olympics. Anyone see the way the curling crowd serenaded Paul Martin's rink against England last night? They sang "O Canada" loud and clear and it couldn't have come at a better time; in tight against England. How about Jon Montgomery walking through Whistler with a jug of beer and toasting the crowd? Cheryl Bernard's rink pulling out a couple of extra-end wins. How about Vancouver's Olympic fever? Don't get me wrong, folks, everyone is entitled to their opinions, but man, this is a tough thread to read sometimes. Cheers. Kevin Martin Dis ... not Paul. Thanks Skilly ... can't believe I did that ... it's not like I vote Grit every time around either ... I hear you man ... lots to be disappointed in for sure. I just find there's too much disappointment recently. Listening to that young lady who finished 5th in the skeleton was kind of hard to listen to. She tried her best and she really felt she had let the whole country down. I never got to that level of sport as an athlete in my life. My only claim to fame is that I umpired a women's volleyball game between Canada and China at Carleton U back in the late-70's. I couldn't make it as a player, so I became a referee and that's how I did it. But, there's one thing I know I can take solace in as an amateur athlete; I never lost because I didn't try hard enough. This young lady said she gave it her best and if she did then she has nothing to be ashamed about. The same can be said of one of our skiers who finished out of the medals by 3/100 of a second. Now, I'm opening up a can of worms here, but did Brodeur give his best last night? He made some key saves, yes, but can he honestly say, beyond a shadow of a doubt that he honestly give it his all last night? Only he can answer that. Hopefully he doesn't keep answering that for the rest of his playing career. Cheers. |
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Post by Cranky on Feb 22, 2010 14:06:01 GMT -5
I'm simply a dinosaur when it comes to winning, if you are second, you are the first loser.
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Post by Skilly on Feb 22, 2010 15:08:49 GMT -5
I'm simply a dinosaur when it comes to winning, if you are second, you are the first loser. It was a discussion I was having last night with a few friends... we came up with 15 names of Canadians that finished top 5 in this Olympics, but did not medal. Seven finished 4th, and 8 finished 5th .... and I am sure we may have missed 1 or 2 ... the should have changed the campaign to "Own a Top 5" |
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Post by CentreHice on Feb 23, 2010 0:22:44 GMT -5
Virtue-Moir win Ice Dance gold. US wins silver.
Watched the medal presentations on NBC. Bob Costas signs off with a bit of smarmy broadcasting:
"And so on the night after huge disappointment from their hockey team, Canada has reason to celebrate, albeit in another event."
The main NBC network didn't even show last night's hockey game.
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Post by seventeen on Feb 23, 2010 1:50:11 GMT -5
We're just setting up the pins CH. When it's all over we want to be able to say we beat all the best teams. Line up the Russians, Swedes and Yanks, here we come.
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Post by seventeen on Feb 23, 2010 1:53:20 GMT -5
Watched the medal presentations on NBC. Bob Costas signs off with a bit of smarmy broadcasting: "And so on the night after huge disappointment from their hockey team, Canada has reason to celebrate, albeit in another event." Kevin Martin beat the US 7-2 tonight and, horrors, knocked the US out of curling medals entirely. That's another one you ain't gonna get, Bob. Love beating the yanks at sports. |
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Post by MC Habber on Feb 23, 2010 3:59:09 GMT -5
Its about investing millions of taxpayer's money in our athletes and the value of that money. If their placement in the Olympics means little to you, and you are content with them doing their best, then it shouldn't bother you if there is no financial support from the government for them. I get what you're saying, but the money spent on the athletes is peanuts compared to what these Olympics are costing to host. If you want to complain about money misspent.... * Congratulations to Virtue and Moir. That was an amazing performance. I'm not sure I've ever seen two people look so happy. |
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Post by Polarice on Feb 23, 2010 6:28:33 GMT -5
Congratulations to Virtue and Moir. That was an amazing performance. I'm not sure I've ever seen two people look so happy. My girl cried for like 10 minutes....too funny!!!  |
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Post by ValkyrieNS on Feb 23, 2010 6:56:42 GMT -5
Congratulations to Virtue and Moir. That was an amazing performance. I'm not sure I've ever seen two people look so happy. I *knew* I wasn't going to be the only one to watch it, lol! Absolutely fantastic performance, very thrilled they won, they definitely deserved it after turning in a pretty-near flawless skate  The Russians did end up shooting themselves in the foot with their original dance... supposedly their costumes did not go over well, at all, at all. IMHO, they were a little much. I know you're supposed to "push the envelope" a bit in ice dance, but they went a little too far... *** I'm going to try and catch most of the 4 hockey games tonight. Periods 2 & 3 of the Swiss/Belarus game, all of the Canada/Germany game, all of the Czech/Latvia game, and I'll get Mr. Val to DVD Slovakia/Norway so I can watch it before tomorrow's quarter-finals. Because I am obsessed with my hockey [and I need to see how Halak does, not just read about it]. |
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Post by Skilly on Feb 23, 2010 8:27:08 GMT -5
Its about investing millions of taxpayer's money in our athletes and the value of that money. If their placement in the Olympics means little to you, and you are content with them doing their best, then it shouldn't bother you if there is no financial support from the government for them. I get what you're saying, but the money spent on the athletes is peanuts compared to what these Olympics are costing to host. If you want to complain about money misspent.... * Congratulations to Virtue and Moir. That was an amazing performance. I'm not sure I've ever seen two people look so happy. It's not so much money misspent.... everyone knows that is costs bundles to host a Games. Maybe I am not making myself clear, or I am not as eloquent as I'd like to be. What I mean is that for years, games after games, we'd watch our athletes fall short. Yes, some would do poorly (and its not so much them I am referring to, but watching Felice Perdian in the summer games miss the second hurdle and Jeremy Wotherspoon fall flat on his face in the winter games gets frustrating) but we always seem to have a plethora of 4th and 5th place finishes. Atletes that just couldn't give that extra bit to find themselves on the podium. Now, don't get me wrong, some of these athletes way over-exceeded their personal bests to get those 4th and 5ths ... but for the most part that isn't the case. It's top 5 athletes, that are expected to medla and just don't. For years the excuse that I have heard while watching world championships, and Olympic Games is that in Canada we don't pump money into amateur sports, if we did we'd see results. Its why we see so many Canadians representing other countries, why our summer athletes especially make their way to Austrailia to train .... yet for the past 4 years in particular, hundreds of millions of dollars has been dolled out to amateur sports and we see the same thing; Canadians on the outside looking in finishing 4th and 5th. I find it .... I don't know .... the words that comes to is "typically Canadian". We don't rise to the occasion in the Olympics. Yet again yesterday, our ski-sprint relay team finished 4th. They had the lead for a good bit. The commentator said "there is no one I'd rather have race the final leg than Alex(?)....." and then we see him tail off and finish 4th... So now we stand by my unofficial count at ... 5G - 4S - 1B - 8 fourths and 8 fifths. |
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Post by Skilly on Feb 23, 2010 8:28:29 GMT -5
I'm not a fan of figure skating..... or judged events period ... but I'd like to echo the board in congratulating Moir and Virtue. Job well done!!!
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Post by Skilly on Feb 23, 2010 8:34:33 GMT -5
Watched the medal presentations on NBC. Bob Costas signs off with a bit of smarmy broadcasting: "And so on the night after huge disappointment from their hockey team, Canada has reason to celebrate, albeit in another event." Kevin Martin beat the US 7-2 tonight and, horrors, knocked the US out of curling medals entirely. That's another one you ain't gonna get, Bob. Love beating the yanks at sports. I've lost all respect for USA curling .... they kick their skip of the team, in an unheard of act of mid-tourney mutiny. That's classless. I understand that the skip is called upon to bail the team out by making some key shots and even a fair share of difficult ones. And, yes, it was surprising to see the easy draws this guy missed. I know when I miss shots I beat myself up (and sometimes question why if I am good enough to be a third or a skip, those easy shots sure make you question yourself .... like the 3 foot putt in golf) ... I'm sure this guy did too The Olympic oath seems to mean nothing to this team ... |
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Post by franko on Feb 23, 2010 8:40:15 GMT -5
The Olympic oath seems to mean nothing to this team ... from what I understand, the Americans had a lot of oaths for their [previous] skip. |
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Post by franko on Feb 23, 2010 8:42:07 GMT -5
So now we stand by my unofficial count at ... 5G - 4S - 1B - 8 fourths and 8 fifths. thanks for doing the work for me, Skilly . . . after yesterdays "we may have tailed off but we were still fourth" I was going to look at how many "tin medals" we would have won. I'm still trying to find that 22 minutes skit to post -- its old but still relevant. |
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Post by Skilly on Feb 23, 2010 8:50:55 GMT -5
No first-place finish, COC admits
VANCOUVER - The head of the Canadian Olympic Committee says Canada will have a tough time finishing third at the Vancouver Olympics and the organization should consider changing the name of its vaunted Own the Podium program.
"There are many people who would say that there was a little bit too much braggadocio in that [name]," Chris Rudge, chief executive of the COC, told reporters Monday. "Should we change the name now? Maybe that's one of the things we should consider."
The $110-million program was launched five years ago by the COC and the federal government to help Canada win the medal count at the 2010 Games. Ottawa provides about half of the funding, and the remainder comes from provincial agencies and corporations.
Canada started Monday's competition tied in fifth place with nine medals, far behind the United States with 24. "We are going to be short of our goal," Mr. Rudge said. "I readily admit that ...Where are we going to finish at this time? Probably we'll be in a tough fight with the Germans for second or third."
The Own the Podium program has been criticized for being overly aggressive and generating unrealistic expectations for athletes.
The program has also led some countries to complain that Canada limited access to facilities before the Games to give Canadian athletes more training time (Olympic organizers insist they met international standards for training access).
Mr. Rudge said the program has been a great success and provided badly needed funding to develop elite athletes. But he acknowledged the name has become something of a target. Referring to jokes that Canadians can't "find the podium" and that Americans are "renting it," Mr. Rudge said: "There's a lighter side to this. This is sport. This is not the sacrifices that our soldiers are making in Afghanistan."
He added that the COC will conduct a thorough review of all its programs after the Games. And, while he is not recommending a change to the Own the Podium name, he said that should be part of the review.
"I think you have to look at everything," he said. "Did it serve its purpose? Is there another name that might be more apropos since we don't have a home games [next time]? That's possible."
Claire Buffone-Blair, a spokeswoman for Own the Podium, said the organization believes the name is inspirational and that "we plan to keep it as we move forward." However, she said the future of the name will be decided by the COC, which owns the trademark.
Mr. Rudge pointed to strong performances by other countries, including South Korea and China, for Canada's lower-than-expected showing. Nathalie Lambert, the chef de mission for the Canadian team, also said the large pro-Canadian crowds at venues have made some Canadian athletes nervous, prompting them to push too hard and fall short. However, she pointed out that Canada has 42 top eight finishes in Vancouver so far, compared to 27 at the Turin Winter Games in 2006.
Own the Podium has spent $83-million over the past five years developing Olympic medal contenders. Alpine skiing received the largest share of that money, $10.5-million, and so far the team has won no medals.
By contrast, the United States Olympic Committee spent $55.2-million (U.S.) over the last four years on its winter sports program. The Americans are on track not only to finish first at the Vancouver Games but possibly to top the all-time winter medal count of 36 set by the Germans in 2002.
Mike English, director of sport performance at the USOC, said the Americans don't focus on medal counts.
"We did not talk openly about medals [before the Games]," he said. "Like any other country, we will take a look and see where we think we have potential, but we did not communicate that and we did not communicate that among staff. We focus more on the performance of the day."
He added that the USOC also did not set a goal of finishing first at the Olympics. "We didn't want that pressure on our athletes," he said. "When you focus on [performance] the outcome of a medal is more likely to happen. If you focus on the medal, then you have other distractions."
Mr. English praised the objectives of the Own the Podium program, saying they reflect what the USOC has been doing for 10 years. He added that Canadians need to be patient.
"I think the Own the Podium phrase may have been taken a little bit out of context in the sense that this is going to be a spectacular payoff for your athletes long term," he said. "I would just encourage the continuation of [patience]. When you are investing in your athletes and you are investing in performance, you get a multitude of benefits."
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Post by Skilly on Feb 23, 2010 8:55:15 GMT -5
Patience ....
Invest in elite athletes for 5 years, and we have to wait until 2014 for results? Not many of these athletes will be in 2 Olympics. Some, sure ...
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Post by habernac on Feb 23, 2010 9:35:48 GMT -5
I hope a bunch of our athletes were watching the ice dancers last night. 20 and 22 years old, they skated brilliantly, no choke job to be seen here.
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Post by CentreHice on Feb 23, 2010 11:13:08 GMT -5
Kevin Martin beat the US 7-2 tonight and, horrors, knocked the US out of curling medals entirely. That's another one you ain't gonna get, Bob. Love beating the yanks at sports. I've lost all respect for USA curling .... they kick their skip of the team, in an unheard of act of mid-tourney mutiny. That's classless. I understand that the skip is called upon to bail the team out by making some key shots and even a fair share of difficult ones. And, yes, it was surprising to see the easy draws this guy missed. I know when I miss shots I beat myself up (and sometimes question why if I am good enough to be a third or a skip, those easy shots sure make you question yourself .... like the 3 foot putt in golf) ... I'm sure this guy did too The Olympic oath seems to mean nothing to this team ... How is this scenario any different from replacing a goalie who is allowing softies, or scratching a hockey player who keeps making costly giveaways? ============================================= From an article in The Chronicle Herald Sat., Feb. 20. The decision was made after the U.S. fell to 0-4.
"We’re not out of it mathematically," said Rick Patzke, chief operating officer for USA Curling. "I’m not a math major by any means but we have five games left and our goal is to put the best team on the ice for each game and get a win."
Shuster, a 2006 Olympic bronze medallist while playing lead, will sit on the sidelines while Plys calls the game and third Jason Smith throws last rocks.
"The team had a meeting with the coaches and the ultimate decision came from head coach Phil Drobnick. I don’t know whether each individual is okay with it or not but the word I got was okay - the decision has been made. Let’s go forward. Let’s go out there and play."============================================----- I don't see how this breaks the Olympic oath. In the name of all the competitors I promise that we shall take part in these Olympic Games, respecting and abiding by the rules which govern them, committing ourselves to a sport without doping and without drugs, in the true spirit of sportsmanship, for the glory of sport and the honour of our teams.================================================= Here's Shuster on The Jay Leno Show. Start watching around 1:35, Leno really puts his foot in his mouth. He has no clue on what it takes to be a world-class curler. "But I do love the fact that you're just a regular guy who does something and then gets to represent America....that's basically what I think the Olympics kinda should be. I mean, I love seeing the professional athletes, too...but....and not that you're not a professional athlete...but you don't make your living as a professional athlete. No...you understand what I'm saying....I like the fact that you have a job you have to go to....and you take time off to...your boss says, "Okay, go do the Olympics...then come back." |
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Post by Skilly on Feb 23, 2010 19:07:49 GMT -5
I've lost all respect for USA curling .... they kick their skip of the team, in an unheard of act of mid-tourney mutiny. That's classless. I understand that the skip is called upon to bail the team out by making some key shots and even a fair share of difficult ones. And, yes, it was surprising to see the easy draws this guy missed. I know when I miss shots I beat myself up (and sometimes question why if I am good enough to be a third or a skip, those easy shots sure make you question yourself .... like the 3 foot putt in golf) ... I'm sure this guy did too The Olympic oath seems to mean nothing to this team ... How is this scenario any different from replacing a goalie who is allowing softies, or scratching a hockey player who keeps making costly giveaways? ============================================= From an article in The Chronicle Herald Sat., Feb. 20. The decision was made after the U.S. fell to 0-4.
"We’re not out of it mathematically," said Rick Patzke, chief operating officer for USA Curling. "I’m not a math major by any means but we have five games left and our goal is to put the best team on the ice for each game and get a win."
Shuster, a 2006 Olympic bronze medallist while playing lead, will sit on the sidelines while Plys calls the game and third Jason Smith throws last rocks.
"The team had a meeting with the coaches and the ultimate decision came from head coach Phil Drobnick. I don’t know whether each individual is okay with it or not but the word I got was okay - the decision has been made. Let’s go forward. Let’s go out there and play."============================================----- I don't see how this breaks the Olympic oath. In the name of all the competitors I promise that we shall take part in these Olympic Games, respecting and abiding by the rules which govern them, committing ourselves to a sport without doping and without drugs, in the true spirit of sportsmanship, for the glory of sport and the honour of our teams.================================================= Here's Shuster on The Jay Leno Show. Start watching around 1:35, Leno really puts his foot in his mouth. He has no clue on what it takes to be a world-class curler. "But I do love the fact that you're just a regular guy who does something and then gets to represent America....that's basically what I think the Olympics kinda should be. I mean, I love seeing the professional athletes, too...but....and not that you're not a professional athlete...but you don't make your living as a professional athlete. No...you understand what I'm saying....I like the fact that you have a job you have to go to....and you take time off to...your boss says, "Okay, go do the Olympics...then come back." How is it different? ... Well I was under the impression they kicked him off the team and told him to go home. It was reported as such on TSN with the lead in of "Mutiny on Team USA". If that is incorrect and it was a coach's decision - then yes, you are right. If they did in fact kick him of the team, then IMO, that is directly opposing the values of sportsmanship. I can't recall of another time where the skip was replaced by the fifth .... I know the Olympics has a rule that the fifth must play in order to qualify for a medal (that's how Mike Adam got his gold in Turin, he substituted for Korab in the second last game of the round robin). But typically the skip would move down to third or second and the lead would end up sitting .... and to be replace by a junior curler? (I believe he was a junior curler last year, could be wrong there) |
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Post by Skilly on Feb 23, 2010 19:13:18 GMT -5
Another GOLD for Canada!! McIvor wins the women's ski-cross ... man I love watching that sport!! Alas, another 5th for Canada in the same event too ....
GOLD - 6
Silver - 4
Bronze - 1
Fourth - 8
Fifth - 9
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Post by ValkyrieNS on Feb 24, 2010 6:32:36 GMT -5
Another GOLD for Canada!! McIvor wins the women's ski-cross ... man I love watching that sport!! She won it handily as well, quite a ways ahead of the silver and bronze medalists *** Men's HockeySweden/Belarus: Now where is that Sergei when we need him? 2 G, 3 A... please bring that back to Montreal with you Czech/Latvia: What an action-packed game! Jagr left at the beginning of the 2nd period with an upper-body injury. Hopefully he'll be back tonight, because the boys seemed to lose all confidence after he left... even though they managed to win it in OT. Go Czechs! Slovakia/Norway: I know the Slovaks won it 4-3, but since it was 2-0 when it first flashed up on the screen after the OT Czech/Latvia game, I need to watch it tonight to see where they fell apart. *** Saw parts of Joannie Rochette's short program and she was spectacular. I have no idea how she's staying together during all this... she's in 3rd at the moment, with her final skate on Thursday. |
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Post by Skilly on Feb 24, 2010 19:31:52 GMT -5
Clara Hughes becomes one of Canada's all time most decorated Olympic athletes with a bronze in the 5000m long track speed skating. Kristina Groves finishes 6th. I was surprised to see only 16 skaters in this event (3 of them Canadians).
GOLD - 6
Silver - 4
Bronze - 2
Fourth - 8
Fifth - 9
This could be a good night for Canada women's bobsleigh, aerials and short track medals to be awarded.
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Post by franko on Feb 24, 2010 22:20:04 GMT -5
indeed it was -- love the bobsled
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Post by ValkyrieNS on Feb 25, 2010 6:54:19 GMT -5
Clara Hughes becomes one of Canada's all time most decorated Olympic athletes with a bronze in the 5000m long track speed skating. That was Clara's last race too, she has now retired. Did you also know that she is the only person to have won multiple medals in both the Summer Olympics and the Winter Olympics? Nice to retire on such a high note! *** Bobsleigh:Did you guys see that horrific accident the German girls had? Germany 2 started off Heat 4 in 4th place, were ahead and then they lost control of the sled. Glad to see neither was hurt too badly although the girl who stayed with the sled bumped her head so I hope they had her checked out. We *almost* owned the podium in this event |
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Post by habernac on Feb 25, 2010 11:09:45 GMT -5
Clara is 37 years old. Awesome to perform at such a high level. And she ALWAYS looks like she's having the time of her life. Excellent choice for flag bearer. When Kristina Groves got her Bronze in the 3000m on Valentines Day Hughes looked even more excited than she was.
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