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Post by Cranky on Jun 27, 2010 11:18:04 GMT -5
Can someone explain to me why we have all these cops from every corner of Otnario and we can't deal with a couple of dozen hooligans? All these "special forces" and we can't force teen and 20 something pizza sticks off the streets? Are we going to wait until they fire bomb a store and kil a few people before they are dealt with?
Next time the G8 or the G20 or the GSpot want to kiss and meet, can they please do it on a ship! At least, if we get lucky, a rogue wave...
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Post by roke on Jun 27, 2010 11:24:18 GMT -5
Security for the event was apparently $1 billion, correct? Damage has to be in the millions of dollars by now.
How much would it cost to build luxury accommodations (because that's what the leaders would need for some reason...)in Resolute?
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Post by Skilly on Jun 27, 2010 11:25:25 GMT -5
Every corner of Ontario? How about every corner of the country .. I know NL sent 100 RCMP/Police to Toronto.
It's a sticky situation. They do have the right to protest peacefully, and you know, I am still unsure of what the hell they are all protesting. I saw anti-sealing signs, anti-abortion signs, pro abortion signs, anti-poverty signs ... its like it is a smorgasbord of protesting. All these antics though cheapens their messages ...
I heard an account that there are about 200-400 "black block" protesters trying to incite violence ... well if that is the case, rangle up ever person wearing a face covering and "detain" them until the summit is over ... don't have to arrest or imprison. Just bring them in for questioning and make it a lengthy questioning. "Do you know this person .. what was your purpose .." Go through the hours of on hours of footage with them ...
It's crazy ..I'm just glad I am going to be in Toronto (Tuesday) when it is all over ....
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Post by Skilly on Jun 27, 2010 11:26:43 GMT -5
Security for the event was apparently $1 billion, correct? Damage has to be in the millions of dollars by now. How much would it cost to build luxury accommodations (because that's what the leaders would need for some reason...)in Resolute? They should have held it in some resort ... shut the resort down and have the road to it barricaded. How much to rent a swank resort for the weekend? Not 1 Billion thats for sure. |
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Post by Cranky on Jun 27, 2010 11:35:55 GMT -5
Security for the event was apparently $1 billion, correct? Damage has to be in the millions of dollars by now. How much would it cost to build luxury accommodations (because that's what the leaders would need for some reason...)in Resolute? Or PEI? How many anarchist can swim while wearing a balaclava? |
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Post by Cranky on Jun 27, 2010 11:38:40 GMT -5
Every corner of Ontario? How about every corner of the country .. I know NL sent 100 RCMP/Police to Toronto. It's a sticky situation. They do have the right to protest peacefully, and you know, I am still unsure of what the hell they are all protesting. I saw anti-sealing signs, anti-abortion signs, pro abortion signs, anti-poverty signs ... its like it is a smorgasbord of protesting. All these antics though cheapens their messages ... I heard an account that there are about 200-400 "black block" protesters trying to incite violence ... well if that is the case, rangle up ever person wearing a face covering and "detain" them until the summit is over ... don't have to arrest or imprison. Just bring them in for questioning and make it a lengthy questioning. "Do you know this person .. what was your purpose .." Go through the hours of on hours of footage with them ... It's crazy ..I'm just glad I am going to be in Toronto (Tuesday) when it is all over .... My wife HAD to go downtown on Friday and she told me that her IQ was in peril after reading some of the placards. |
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Post by franko on Jun 27, 2010 20:08:22 GMT -5
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 27, 2010 21:18:36 GMT -5
You have to wonder whether the majority of those protesting are actually there to make a difference or whether they're there just to participate in stirring the pot.
True story
Back in the late 80's I was working in the National Defence Headquarters (NDHQ) in Ottawa. We were told that protesters were going to show up to protest some visiting military big-wig from another country.
I was appointed to an "Auxiliary Security Force" and given a section and several areas of responsibility; a number of entrances in addition to the underground loading bays. We had our briefing the day before. We had to be at work for 0530 hrs to draw anything we might need and also to receive final orders.
We were also told that we wouldn't be missing supper. The protesters were being bused in from Montreal. We knew when they were leaving, when they'd arrive and what time they'd be departing for home. More importantly, THEY, the protesters, wouldn't be missing their supper either. "They," were comprised of paid-protesters who were routinely bused around the geographical area, to participate in whatever cause needed attention. Of course, they were to be joined by those paid-protesters who already lived in Ottawa. Go figure.
Example of a full-time protester: Remember the guy Chretien manhandled on camera when he tried to get in the Prime Minister's way? He was known later as, "The Mad Hatter" because of the hat he wore that day. This guy was a paid-protester (he, himself was actually part of our briefing).
As for the G8, G20 ... I read there were over 500 arrests so far. Sounds like there were more than just a few paid-protesters. I'm fairly sure there were other protesters there to try and simply make a difference. However, how many are there just to participate in stirring the pot and, of that 500, how many of them have actually been arrested? These are the fire-starters that defeat the purpose of so many trying to make a difference.
Cheers.
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Post by CentreHice on Jun 27, 2010 21:37:33 GMT -5
Yeah, there are idiotic protesters....the Black Bloc....give me a break....they're not even protesters. They're criminals, vandals....plain and simple.
But, let's focus on broken windows while over a billion dollars was spent on this summit...and how other businesses in the downtown core were disrupted.
Let's focus on clip after clip of police firing small tear gas canisters at protesters, while unjust wars continue to kill misused military and innocent civilians.
Let's focus on a police car being set on fire while millions are, and will remain, mired in poverty.
===================================
Believe me guys, I'm not a left-wing nut job....but sometimes I'd love it if the mainstream media cameras would swing around to rail at who's in (the abuse of) power. But why would they? Those people own the cameras. The Black Bloc unwittingly pulled all the focus.
Too bad the police and military have to be put in this buffer zone position....and it's been that way throughout history. I really feel for them....because the violence is just as much a result of those in power, as it is of the powerless.
In terms of the peaceful protesters....well, Toronto is a multi-cultural city and there were leaders in town from all over the world, so they had to expect that.
Those protests are over for now...what they were protesting goes on.
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Post by Cranky on Jun 27, 2010 22:20:15 GMT -5
You have to wonder whether the majority of those protesting are actually there to make a difference or whether they're there just to participate in stirring the pot. True story Back in the late 80's I was working in the National Defence Headquarters (NDHQ) in Ottawa. We were told that protesters were going to show up to protest some visiting military big-wig from another country. I was appointed to an "Auxiliary Security Force" and given a section and several areas of responsibility; a number of entrances in addition to the underground loading bays. We had our briefing the day before. We had to be at work for 0530 hrs to draw anything we might need and also to receive final orders. We were also told that we wouldn't be missing supper. The protesters were being bused in from Montreal. We knew when they were leaving, when they'd arrive and what time they'd be departing for home. More importantly, THEY, the protesters, wouldn't be missing their supper either. "They," were comprised of paid-protesters who were routinely bused around the geographical area, to participate in whatever cause needed attention. Of course, they were to be joined by those paid-protesters who already lived in Ottawa. Go figure. Example of a full-time protester: Remember the guy Chretien manhandled on camera when he tried to get in the Prime Minister's way? He was known later as, "The Mad Hatter" because of the hat he wore that day. This guy was a paid-protester (he, himself was actually part of our briefing). I have the greatest respect for those who take to the street to change malicious govenments like in Iran. Putting ones own well beign on the line is the least one can do to fight oppression. On the other end of the spectrum, I consider paid "protesters" and anarchist as nothing more then garbage. There is no moral compass, no great cause other then some self delusional "I scream therefore I am". Only to be surpassed by the "I break windows and I look kool". The sad part is that the garbage drowned out everybody else's voice. |
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Post by CentreHice on Jun 27, 2010 23:02:42 GMT -5
I have the greatest respect for those who take to the street to change malicious govenments like in Iran. Putting ones own well beign on the line is the least one can do to fight oppression. On the other end of the spectrum, I consider paid "protesters" and anarchist as nothing more then garbage. There is no moral compass, no great cause other then some self delusional "I scream therefore I am". Only to be surpassed by the "I break windows and I look kool". The sad part is that the garbage drowned out everybody else's voice. Well said. But the sadder part to me is that the mainstream media will dwell on that garbage....and the real reasons for the legitimate protests won't be examined. |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jun 27, 2010 23:41:40 GMT -5
Every corner of Ontario? How about every corner of the country .. I know NL sent 100 RCMP/Police to Toronto. It's a sticky situation. They do have the right to protest peacefully, and you know, I am still unsure of what the hell they are all protesting. I saw anti-sealing signs, anti-abortion signs, pro abortion signs, anti-poverty signs ... its like it is a smorgasbord of protesting. All these antics though cheapens their messages ... I heard an account that there are about 200-400 "black block" protesters trying to incite violence ... well if that is the case, rangle up ever person wearing a face covering and "detain" them until the summit is over ... don't have to arrest or imprison. Just bring them in for questioning and make it a lengthy questioning. "Do you know this person .. what was your purpose .." Go through the hours of on hours of footage with them ... It's crazy ..I'm just glad I am going to be in Toronto (Tuesday) when it is all over .... Rangle up every person with a face covering starting with burkas. Now that would really start a protest from the radical left, gay, indiginous, linguistic invisable minorities. There are craze people that think murder is appropriate for whalers, loggers, seal killers, _______ fill in the blank. |
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Post by franko on Jun 28, 2010 6:07:27 GMT -5
The interesting is that [as Skilly pointed out] there wasn't a protest . . . there were hundreds of protests . . . all the people just joined together.
Some legitimate concerns, some not.
Definitely overshadowed by the few of the Black Bloc, who merely want attention ["hey, look at me!"]. If it weren't for them the security wouldn't be near as tight [nor expensive].
We;ll see what happens next year in France, wehre Sarkosi has promised to do the security at a tenth of the cost [though why they bother is beyond me, as nothing gets done anyway].
As to the cost of security being higher here than anywhere else, I read [was it here somewhere? shoulda paid attention] that Canada included all costs; the summit in the US only included police OT costs.
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Post by Skilly on Jun 28, 2010 6:41:04 GMT -5
I heard on the TV last night that Canada paid for the accomodations of ALL 10,000 delegates!!! Is that true?
20 GD countries do not need that many people coming over with them.
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Post by franko on Jun 28, 2010 7:57:47 GMT -5
I don't believe so, Skilly . . . just the leaders and a smaller entourage.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 28, 2010 10:07:26 GMT -5
You have to wonder whether the majority of those protesting are actually there to make a difference or whether they're there just to participate in stirring the pot. True story Back in the late 80's I was working in the National Defence Headquarters (NDHQ) in Ottawa. We were told that protesters were going to show up to protest some visiting military big-wig from another country. I was appointed to an "Auxiliary Security Force" and given a section and several areas of responsibility; a number of entrances in addition to the underground loading bays. We had our briefing the day before. We had to be at work for 0530 hrs to draw anything we might need and also to receive final orders. We were also told that we wouldn't be missing supper. The protesters were being bused in from Montreal. We knew when they were leaving, when they'd arrive and what time they'd be departing for home. More importantly, THEY, the protesters, wouldn't be missing their supper either. "They," were comprised of paid-protesters who were routinely bused around the geographical area, to participate in whatever cause needed attention. Of course, they were to be joined by those paid-protesters who already lived in Ottawa. Go figure. Example of a full-time protester: Remember the guy Chretien manhandled on camera when he tried to get in the Prime Minister's way? He was known later as, "The Mad Hatter" because of the hat he wore that day. This guy was a paid-protester (he, himself was actually part of our briefing). I have the greatest respect for those who take to the street to change malicious govenments like in Iran. Putting ones own well beign on the line is the least one can do to fight oppression. On the other end of the spectrum, I consider paid "protesters" and anarchist as nothing more then garbage. There is no moral compass, no great cause other then some self delusional "I scream therefore I am". Only to be surpassed by the "I break windows and I look kool". The sad part is that the garbage drowned out everybody else's voice. You're right, HA. Now we're getting into one's right to protest. However, where they lose credibility is when they feel the need to hire "professional protesters." Bill Clennett, AKA the "Mad Hatter," (see The Shawinigan Handshake) is only one of many who are paid to be where they are. They get their briefings for whatever cause they're "supporting" and away they go. They don't have to necessarily believe in their cause, just show up and perform: "I scream, therefore I am ..." is very aptly put; however, imagine if you're a law officer, secret service or even undercover RCMP at these demonstrations. There's a better-than-good chance that these paid protesters are well known to officials. Indeed, I'd go out on a limb to say more than a few have dossiers (that's just me talking out of my ear though). And, of course, there are those opportunists who sieze the moment to hide whatever agendas they may wish to flog as well; looting, hooliganism and outright rioting just to name a few. You're right, though. It's the few who take away from those who want to actually make a difference. And it's those who want to make a difference that see their efforts squandered by those few. Cheers. |
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Post by duster on Jun 28, 2010 11:21:32 GMT -5
We;ll see what happens next year in France, wehre Sarkosi has promised to do the security at a tenth of the cost [though why they bother is beyond me, as nothing gets done anyway]. I believe Sarkozy when he says that. They wouldn't need to pay for any added security. Very few police forces are as experienced as the French when it comes to demonstrations and how to handle rioters. This is the country that brought you the Commune of 1870 and the 1968 riots. It's practically a specialty in places like Paris and Marseilles. When you see French police setup every night fully armed and in riot gear at strategic places like Place de la Republique even when things are quiet, you get the idea that it's not the RCMP or Toronto police you're dealing with and they've been conditioned to expect trouble at any time - some would say for good reason. Consider that France uses its army to routinely patrol train stations and gendarmes are issued sub-machine guns. Also consider there is no habeas corpus in France as we have in Canada. They can arrest you on a whim for no particular reason and the police/gendarmerie has a reputation for brutality. |
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Post by BadCompany on Jun 28, 2010 14:32:38 GMT -5
Security for the event was apparently $1 billion, correct? Damage has to be in the millions of dollars by now. How much would it cost to build luxury accommodations (because that's what the leaders would need for some reason...)in Resolute? They should have held it in some resort ... shut the resort down and have the road to it barricaded. How much to rent a swank resort for the weekend? Not 1 Billion thats for sure. The problem with holding it in a remote area, or in a resort location is that you then open yourself up to the “what are they hiding?” and the “subverting our democratic right to protest” criticism. Isn’t that what happened when they held this thing in Montebello, Quebec (which isn’t even all that hard to get to) ? Damned if you, damned if you don’t… |
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Post by The New Guy on Jun 29, 2010 17:03:24 GMT -5
As an ex-resident of Toronto I can not express, once again, how happy I am to be out of there.
To be fair to the police, it is a difficult situation. If you go in the minute people start throwing things you get accused of being heavy handed. If you show restraint, as they seemed to do this weekend, you get accused of letting the hooligans run free (and of being heavy handed by those you arrested).
Personally I think they probably made the right choices in their actions this weekend. With 25,000 people crowding downtown is was a situation that could turn very ugly very quickly. So rather than confront the black bloc hooligans they let them do their thing, and then, as the violent element filtered out of the crowd, push back, round up everyone and toss them in a detention centre until the thing was over. It's a costly tactic (you have to let the hooligans damage private property) and it lets a majority of the element you want to catch get away (the violent crowd) but a riot would be worse.
My question is - why do the other interest groups (who have their voice stolen by these knuckle heads) not step up. I wonder how they'd react to a few citizen's arrests. Or even just a few heads in the crowd taking names and descriptions, or documenting activities with a hidden camera, and turning evidence over the police.
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Post by Skilly on Jul 2, 2010 19:08:59 GMT -5
They should have held it in some resort ... shut the resort down and have the road to it barricaded. How much to rent a swank resort for the weekend? Not 1 Billion thats for sure. The problem with holding it in a remote area, or in a resort location is that you then open yourself up to the “what are they hiding?” and the “subverting our democratic right to protest” criticism. Isn’t that what happened when they held this thing in Montebello, Quebec (which isn’t even all that hard to get to) ? Damned if you, damned if you don’t… I see the point .. but I disagree a little. The leaders didn't see any of these protests, they were sheltered even though it looked like a riot in the streets ..... So they can protest on Yonge, Queen or Spadina just as much and get their message across just as much whether the leaders are in Cottage Country or in the heart of downtown Toronto. The difference is that you do not need to spend millions and millions to secure a secluded location ... |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jul 16, 2010 14:02:14 GMT -5
First, I don't know what the events were leading up to these clips. I don't know what those officers were exposed to prior to this and I don't know about any of the protesters. Secondly, when I saw the banner at the beginning of the clip, "The Real News," it made me kind of leery about what was coming next. That aside, there's one story right now that's getting a lot of attention. Meet Officer Bubbles. I thought the guy was a bit of a bully, more so when I saw the reaction of the officer standing next to him. But, I also noticed that this clip was edited as such that all it showed was the demonstrator, the officer, the verbal exchange and the subsequent arrest. Again, I got kind of leery about what was in the missing footage, because it didn't show me what the young lady was arrested for. I found this link while I was looking for it (which was provided for on the first clip). This is a much longer version, but it still didn't give me what I was looking for, that was; the missing footage between the dialog and the arrest, but it did give me a good idea about the mood of the Parkdale neighbourhood. The first clip is about seven minutes but the second one is close to thirteen. Check them out when you have the time. Cheers. |
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Post by Cranky on Jul 17, 2010 2:59:29 GMT -5
"They" made fun of my nose.
"They" searched me in the open and liften my bra.
It goes wit the "I got raped" and the "I got molested" unadultered brown stuff.
Edited and spliced garbage to create the laughable drama. I don't believe 98.7%. of what these people say and the other 1.3%, I don't care. And I mean one of those I REALLY dont care kind of don't care.
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Post by seventeen on Jul 22, 2010 0:33:10 GMT -5
I heard on the TV last night that Canada paid for the accomodations of ALL 10,000 delegates!!! Is that true? 20 GD countries do not need that many people coming over with them. I believe most of those 10,000 were the protestors  . |
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Post by seventeen on Jul 22, 2010 0:36:22 GMT -5
They should have held it in some resort ... shut the resort down and have the road to it barricaded. How much to rent a swank resort for the weekend? Not 1 Billion thats for sure. The problem with holding it in a remote area, or in a resort location is that you then open yourself up to the “what are they hiding?” and the “subverting our democratic right to protest” criticism. Isn’t that what happened when they held this thing in Montebello, Quebec (which isn’t even all that hard to get to) ? Damned if you, damned if you don’t… Wouldn't bother me if they went to a remote location. Churchill MB for example Pros 1) No paid protestor would have any inclination to go to Churchill 2) Who would want to spend any time in Churchill? The summit would be short. 3) No need for security. The polar bears are already there. Cons None Simple, fast, easy. |
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