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Post by BadCompany on Feb 6, 2004 12:04:50 GMT -5
;D www.hockeysfuture.com/article.php?sid=6662&mode=threaded&order=01. Montreal Canadiens (4)[/b] Strengths: Montreal has an abundance of prospects who can put the puck in the opposition’s net, and plenty who can keep the puck out of their own, making them extremely formidable at both ends. Leading the well-rounded crop of forwards are steady two-way Chris Higgins, offensive dynamo Andrei Kastsitsyn, and the recently recalled Jozef Balej, a speedy winger and leading scorer in Hamilton. Alex Perezhogin, Tomas Plekanec, the raw but talented Cory Urquhart and the enigma that is Marcel Hossa complete an extremely talented group of forwards. On the blueline Montreal has the offensive minded Ron Hainsey, as well as the often over-looked Konstantin Korneev to create a potentially solid bottom pair. Andrew Archer, a big stay at home defenseman could also be a NHL regular. Weaknesses: The Canadiens, with this season’s promotion of Mathieu Garon, are now missing a blue chip goalie prospect in the system. Jaroslav Halak, Oliver Michaud and Joni Puurula all seem to have the ceiling of NHL backup at best. Montreal’s forward prospects aren’t very big by NHL standards, and that could be a concern in the future. Top Prospects: (C) Chris Higgins, (F) Andrei Kastsitsyn, (D) Ron Hainsey, (F) Jozef Balej, (C) Tomas Plekanec, (F) Andrei Perezhogin, (F) Marcel Hossa, (D) Konstantin Korneev, (C) Cory Urquhart. |
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Post by AH on Feb 6, 2004 12:49:16 GMT -5
WOO HOO !!!
Other notables in the division ...
Ottawa - 10
Buffalo - 7
Boston - 12
Toronto - 26 <-- ;D
LOL .. Leaf fans don't believe anyone who says Toronto's system is below average in terms of high end talent and depth.
The amazing thing about the Habs ranking is that teams ahead of them last year (Chicago, Pittsburgh, and Washington) have all fallen because they promoted a whole bunch of their prospects to the NHL level. Meanwhile, the Habs have promoted Garon, Ribeiro, Ward, Ryder, Komisarek, Chouinard to the NHL level since the start of last year and they keep going higher.
That says a lot about the work Andre Savard has done on the drafting and development front since 2000.
When Gainey says he is impressed by the talent in Hamilton, he isn't kidding.
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Post by AH on Feb 6, 2004 13:09:20 GMT -5
Something just occurred to me ...
Forget tanking the season to get Ovechkin, we now have the depth to trade for him.
IMO, everyone of those "prospects" not named Higgins is available to the team with the pick to get Ovechkin. The only reason I want to keep Higgins is because he's the type of guy you go to war with.
If you are Columbus, Pittsburgh, Chicago, Washington, or Carolina, do you take any four guys and give up Ovechkin ?
Katsy, Zhogin, Hainsey, Hossa/Balej/Plekanec for Ovechkin ?
I was against the Kovalchuk deal because the franchise did not have the depth it currently has. But now, its a completely different story.
It's worth discussing.
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Post by BadCompany on Feb 6, 2004 13:36:02 GMT -5
WOO HOO !!! Other notables in the division ... Ottawa - 10 Buffalo - 7 Boston - 12 Toronto - 26 <-- ;D LOL .. Leaf fans don't believe anyone who says Toronto's system is below average in terms of high end talent and depth. The amazing thing about the Habs ranking is that teams ahead of them last year (Chicago, Pittsburgh, and Washington) have all fallen because they promoted a whole bunch of their prospects to the NHL level. Meanwhile, the Habs have promoted Garon, Ribeiro, Ward, Ryder, Komisarek, Chouinard to the NHL level since the start of last year and they keep going higher. That says a lot about the work Andre Savard has done on the drafting and development front since 2000. When Gainey says he is impressed by the talent in Hamilton, he isn't kidding. Toronto is a team that is based heavily on free agents. Its worked well for them so far, but if any sort of economic parity is introduced into the league, like a salary cap, they will be in a world of hurt. Unfortunately, any sort of salary cap, if its even possible, would probably have to be grandfathered, giving the Leafs some room to breath. Buffalo has always had good prospects, but never able to break the “barrier.” They waffle along with their high-but-not-quite-high enough picks, and never seem to hit the real home run. Satan is the closest they have come to a real superstar. Not sure if they have enough high-end talent to break that rut. Boston is just so poorly run in every other aspect of the organization, that I don’t think they pose a threat in the short or long term, no matter how well they draft. Ottawa scares me. Their NHL team is ridiculously young to begin with, with Spezza, Hossa, Havlat, Chara, Redden, Phillips, Volchenkov, Rachunek, Fisher all under 27 to begin with, but they also have a good farm going as well. If Emery is as good as they are hoping he is, they could be a dynasty. That’s a big if, though. As for making the big Ovechkin pitch, I’m still pretty wary of doing it. Guess I’m just conservative that way. We do have a lot of prospects, but our NHL depth really isn’t all that great yet. If we ever hope to contend, we are going to have to replace a lot of players, in a relatively short period of time; Perreault, Juneau, Dackell, Kilger, Dagenais, Quintal, maybe Ryder, maybe Rivet, maybe one of Ribeiro or Koivu, maybe Sundstrom, maybe Ward. Of the 18 skaters we dress every night, a good 9-12 of them would be on a contending team. There is still a lot of work to be done. Ovechkin would replace Dagenais (and how!) but if we deplete the farm TOO much, there will be nobody to replace all those other guys. |
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Post by blaise on Feb 6, 2004 15:36:10 GMT -5
Did anyone notice that Higgins has missed the last few games as the result of a concussion?
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Feb 6, 2004 16:31:19 GMT -5
I did.
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Post by Bob on Feb 6, 2004 16:51:14 GMT -5
Did anyone notice that Higgins has missed the last few games as the result of a concussion? The game was on Sportsnet. He was clocked by a forearm/shoulder to the head. No penalty on the play. Maybe the NHL should consider the same rule as the NCAA where a shot to the head is a penalty, regardless of whether it is a shoulder or elbow. |
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Post by franko on Feb 6, 2004 19:51:54 GMT -5
Ottawa scares me. Their NHL team is ridiculously young to begin with, with Spezza, Hossa, Havlat, Chara, Redden, Phillips, Volchenkov, Rachunek, Fisher all under 27 to begin with, but they also have a good farm going as well. If Emery is as good as they are hoping he is, they could be a dynasty. That’s a big if, though. Commentators in Ottawa are of a different opinion: the feeling is that the farm has been pretty much raided and needs to be restocked. Emery had better be the real deal or the Sens will continue to go nowhere . . . they'll hang around but be let down every year. Maybe the NHL should consider the same rule as the NCAA where a shot to the head is a penalty, regardless of whether it is a shoulder or elbow. But what do you do about Lindros, who justs begs to be put down? I'm starting to think that a stick above the waist should be 2, and that a shot to the head (shoulder, elbow, or stick) is an automatic game (caveat: to be determined). |
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Post by seventeen on Feb 6, 2004 22:52:37 GMT -5
As for making the big Ovechkin pitch, I’m still pretty wary of doing it. Guess I’m just conservative that way. We do have a lot of prospects, but our NHL depth really isn’t all that great yet. If we ever hope to contend, we are going to have to replace a lot of players, in a relatively short period of time; Perreault, Juneau, Dackell, Kilger, Dagenais, Quintal, maybe Ryder, maybe Rivet, maybe one of Ribeiro or Koivu, maybe Sundstrom, maybe Ward. Of the 18 skaters we dress every night, a good 9-12 of them would be on a contending team. There is still a lot of work to be done. Ovechkin would replace Dagenais (and how!) but if we deplete the farm TOO much, there will be nobody to replace all those other guys. Except.....Fringe, adequate players aren't too hard to come by and if the scouting staff can keep up their fine work, it's well worth throwing together some kind of package for Ovechkin. I doubt any team with the 1st pick will bite, however. Most GM's (with an occasional exception who won't be named to protect their innocence) are bright enough and know that you don't get franchise players very often. Ovechkin and Crosby are headed that way. Neither one is going to be given away. having said that, if you don't ask you don't get. I mean, would we really miss Perreault, Dackell or Kilger right now? Could they not be replaced with players X, Y and Z? Same thing with Dagenais. Not all our prospects are going to be traded for Ovechkin. And...BTW, I'd give up Higgins before Kastsitsyn. |
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Post by franko on Feb 7, 2004 12:02:33 GMT -5
Except.....Fringe, adequate players aren't too hard to come by and if the scouting staff can keep up their fine work, it's well worth throwing together some kind of package for Ovechkin. Not that it will happen . . . but we do indeed have Savard who can pick diamonds out of the rough when it comes to drafting, so I have no worries about restocking. |
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Post by blaise on Feb 7, 2004 12:12:25 GMT -5
The rights to Ovechkin will not be traded for any package of players unless the package is as absurdly onesided as the one Clarke offered for Eric Lindros. Forget it once and for all.
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Post by AH on Feb 7, 2004 12:28:09 GMT -5
The rights to Ovechkin will not be traded for any package of players unless the package is as absurdly onesided as the one Clarke offered for Eric Lindros. Forget it once and for all. Clarke was not teh GM of the flyers when that trade was made. It was Russ Farwell. Well, we can't just dismiss the acquisition of Ovechkin. If you wanna talk about the Lindros trade, lets break it down. Philadelphia Flyers traded Ron Hextall, Peter Forsberg, Steve Duchesne, Kerry Huffman, Mike Ricci, Chris Simon, 1st round selection (Jocelyn Thibault) in 1993, 1st round selection (later traded to the Toronto Maple Leafs, later traded to the Washington Capitals - Nolan Baumgartner) in 1994 and cash to the Quebec Nordiques for Eric Lindros. Hextall - Garon + ? Duschesne - Hainsey ? Huffman - 2nd round pick ? Forsberg - Katsy (remember Forsberg was still in Sweden at the time of the trade) Ricci - Zhogin Simon - Hossa 1st round pick Garon + Hainsey + Hossa + Katsy - Zhogin - 1st pick + 2nd pick (both picks in a weak draft year). Looks like a lot, especially considering Forsberg turned out to be better than Lindros. If Forsberg doesn't turn out as good and Lindros avoids those conscussions, the deal would look a lot better for the Flyers. |
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Post by roke on Feb 7, 2004 12:47:06 GMT -5
1st round pick Garon + Hainsey + Hossa + Katsy - Zhogin - 1st pick + 2nd pick (both picks in a weak draft year). If we made that deal for Ovechkin, and all players lived up to the potential we're hoping they are (or were hoping for some) the team would have a starting goalie, assuming Garon could start, a top 3 D-man, a forward line (move Hossa to centre) and a 2 picks to plug holes. It's a lot to give up for one player, even though Ovechkin is supposed to help turn a Franchise around. |
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Post by blaise on Feb 7, 2004 13:18:20 GMT -5
I can't agree with AH's assessment of the package the Nordique received for the rights to Lindros.
First, Mike Ricci and Steve Duchesne have had fine NHL careers.
Second, that first round draft choice was Jocelyn Thibault, a key part of the trade for Patrick Roy.
Third, Peter Forsberg was #6 overall in 1991, a deep draft that yielded a number of still-active players in the first round (Lindros, Scott Niedermayer, Lachance, Aaron Ward, Forsberg, Matvichuk, Martin Lapointe, Rolston, Philippe Boucher, Kovalev, Markus Naslund, Glen Murray, Rucinsky, and McAmmond) and the second round (Whitney, Palffy, Staios, Cullimore, Ozolinsh?, Hamrlik, Pushor, and Stumpel). Forsberg was predicted to be a star, and the fact that he remained in Sweden for awhile seems immaterial. It was similar to Koivu's remaining in Finland (both Forsberg and Koivu were considered the best players outside the NHL while playing in Europe after their draft).
The Nordique later traded Hextall (was it to the Islanders?) and got still more value.
That trade made Colorado a powerhouse, whereas Philadelphia failed to win a cup with Lindros at his peak and playing on a line with Leclair and Renberg (at one time considered the top line in the NHL).
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Post by Montrealer on Feb 7, 2004 14:02:22 GMT -5
No team will trade Ovechkin unless they receive a sure-fire franchise player in return.
In other words, it would probably take Theodore to get him.
Sorry, no dice.
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Post by blaise on Feb 7, 2004 14:22:25 GMT -5
Another reason a trade for Ovechkin would be highly implausible is the nature of the team that drafts him--Pittsburgh or perhaps Chicago. The Penguins are so far away from being a contender that no package they received would tip the balance. Ovechkin would come in as a very young player, and then the Penguins would have years to assemble a playoff team, during which time they would accumulate other high drafts choices (perhaps including Sidney Crosby). Finally, if they received a package of NHL players, they would be responsible for paying them, and that would break the bank. Even if they received a bevy of the best players in Hamilton, these players are on two-way contracts and would balloon the Penguins' payroll.
Chicago would be a slightly different case, but they're also heading in the direction of assembling a young team, and Ovechkin would fit in nicely.
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Post by BCHab on Feb 7, 2004 14:24:18 GMT -5
I agree. I don't see anything we could offer except Theodore that could pry Ovechkin away. Who knows? Perhaps someone outside Montreal thinks that Ribeiro is a superstar in waiting. Naw, didn't think so...
Cheers,
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Post by blaise on Feb 7, 2004 14:46:03 GMT -5
Why would the Penguins want to take on Théodore when they already have the young and talented Fleury? They'd have to trade him immediately, and it would be easier to keep Ovechkin for years to come.
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Post by seventeen on Feb 7, 2004 15:11:56 GMT -5
Why would the Penguins want to take on Théodore when they already have the young and talented Fleury? They'd have to trade him immediately, and it would be easier to keep Ovechkin for years to come. The same Fleury who regressed in the WJC? The one who's GAA began ballooning later in his tenure with the Penguins? The one whose confidence appears at a low point? Just yanking. I'd give Fleury a lot more time. I just wish he hadn't chose Dec 03 and Jan 04 to play poorly. |
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Post by AH on Feb 7, 2004 18:28:34 GMT -5
Another reason a trade for Ovechkin would be highly implausible is the nature of the team that drafts him--Pittsburgh or perhaps Chicago. The Penguins are so far away from being a contender that no package they received would tip the balance. Ovechkin would come in as a very young player, and then the Penguins would have years to assemble a playoff team, during which time they would accumulate other high drafts choices (perhaps including Sidney Crosby). Finally, if they received a package of NHL players, they would be responsible for paying them, and that would break the bank. Even if they received a bevy of the best players in Hamilton, these players are on two-way contracts and would balloon the Penguins' payroll. Chicago would be a slightly different case, but they're also heading in the direction of assembling a young team, and Ovechkin would fit in nicely. Who says its gonna be Pittsburgh ? There is a lottery you know. If its Chicago, ownership is finally determined to invest $$$ into the team (according to Pedenault). If it's Columbus, they have not hesitated to spend money of free agents. I am sure they would be willing to pay a bunch of young players just entering the league. |
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