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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jan 24, 2011 23:18:55 GMT -5
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Post by GNick99 on Mar 18, 2011 10:29:31 GMT -5
Recently, I am starting to zone in on Mark McNeill. It is dangerous to get over zealous aboutr any draftee, but no way I could pass him up for Musil. McNeill is good size, good hockey sense, decent hands. The thing that separates him from most prospects his size and age are his hockey sense and wheels, McNeill has good wheels. I see a future 50-55 point, two-way center with size and hockey smarts. Could eventually pop 30 goals a season.
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Post by BadCompany on Apr 7, 2011 13:31:28 GMT -5
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Post by Doc Holliday on Apr 7, 2011 13:53:31 GMT -5
Seriously! You'd pick a dmen with our first... You!   Wow, a Chara clone... I'd love him too. 6'6'' Tinordi and 6'8'' Oleksiak...  Talk about gaining size in your lineup! Plus he's got that unspellable last name that we seem to love here  Seriously though, if he's still around when we pick he'd be a steal. I've heard the HABS are really hot for one of the Q kids: Couturier/Huberdeau and will definitely try to trade up. |
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Apr 7, 2011 13:59:22 GMT -5
I've heard the HABS are really hot for one of the Q kids: Couturier/Huberdeau and will definitely try to trade up. Ooooooh, Huberdeau. He would cost a pretty penny though to move up. A lot better than what we will likely find available at 15-18th though. |
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Post by GNick99 on Apr 7, 2011 19:28:32 GMT -5
I'd take Couturier over Huberdeau. Not sure I would give up what it will take to move up thou. On the draft floor top picks are generally high priced. Maybe give up Eller at the most. Couturier probably not that much better career than a McNeil or Jenson. So, would offer no more
I would also consider trading down to pick up an extra second round pick. Habs do pretty good in later rounds. Halak, Grabovski, Streit a few examples. Take Catenacci 25th or so overall. He should be as good as Gionta.
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Post by BadCompany on Apr 8, 2011 13:53:15 GMT -5
Seriously! You'd pick a dmen with our first... You! Wow, a Chara clone... I'd love him too. 6'6'' Tinordi and 6'8'' Oleksiak... Talk about gaining size in your lineup! Plus he's got that unspellable last name that we seem to love here Seriously though, if he's still around when we pick he'd be a steal. I've heard the HABS are really hot for one of the Q kids: Couturier/Huberdeau and will definitely try to trade up. I know, I know... but somebody has to stick up for us poor defenseman! Nobody wants to draft us! (I'm still waiting for the call myself) ( Read with the usual caveat that I haven't seen most of these guys, and the ones I have seen I did not see often, drafting is an inexact science, blah, blah, blah) I realize that we need an elite scoring forward, believe me I do. And if we can snare one with the 15th-25th pick, then great. But snaring an elite guy like that in a weak draft such as this one is more luck than skill, really. So the odds of us getting one are, well... weak shall we say. Getting a Couturier or Huberdeau would be nice (and a great marketing coup!) but you're talking about moving into the top 10, possibly even top 5-7 at the very least. That's a tough trade to make, and I don't know if we have the horses to do it. Plus, to be honest with you, I wasn't overly impressed with Couturier (who seems to be falling) and Huberdeau reminds me of Benoit Pouliot. Lot of skill, good size, not very physical. I just think that we need to have a cultural mind shift in the organization, that recognizes that you can be good AND big. Of course I don't want to return to the Boeuf de l'Ouest days of Andre Savard, but on the other hand I don't want us to pass on the next Chara (or heck, Myers), simply because there was a safer second line winger available. Is Oleksiak going to be the next Chara? Well, I don't know, but I wouldn't be opposed to finding out. Like you said, a Tinordi-Oleksiak duo would be impressive, even if it only happens 5-7 years from now. Which is what I mean by a cultural mind-shift; we can't be looking at the current team and say "we need size next year" - we need to start thinking "we need size - always." Of course that doesn't mean we should be drafting the biggest guy available all the time, but if he's still around when we pick (which I don't think he will be), then why not? I'd rather take my chances on a bigger Ryan McDonagh (ouch!) then add another Leblanc/Kristo/Higgins/Chipchura/Kostitsyin/Perezhoghin to the system. Of course if we can add another Pacioretty to the system, then great, but I like the freak nature of adding a Redwood to the lineup. (For the record, I like Leblanc - I'm just saying I don't think he's going to be a game-breaker, more like a good second line winger) |
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Post by GNick99 on Apr 8, 2011 17:57:38 GMT -5
Many teams are rumoured to be avoiding defenseman in first round, if this causes defenseman rated 7-8th to slide could be an opportunity for us.
Leblanc could be first line material...but not in next 2-3 years. He is behind in development curve and #1 center in NHL is tall order
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Post by Skilly on Apr 18, 2011 9:47:07 GMT -5
Seriously! You'd pick a dmen with our first... You! Wow, a Chara clone... I'd love him too. 6'6'' Tinordi and 6'8'' Oleksiak... Talk about gaining size in your lineup! Plus he's got that unspellable last name that we seem to love here Seriously though, if he's still around when we pick he'd be a steal. I've heard the HABS are really hot for one of the Q kids: Couturier/Huberdeau and will definitely try to trade up. I know, I know... but somebody has to stick up for us poor defenseman! Nobody wants to draft us! (I'm still waiting for the call myself) ( Read with the usual caveat that I haven't seen most of these guys, and the ones I have seen I did not see often, drafting is an inexact science, blah, blah, blah) I realize that we need an elite scoring forward, believe me I do. And if we can snare one with the 15th-25th pick, then great. But snaring an elite guy like that in a weak draft such as this one is more luck than skill, really. So the odds of us getting one are, well... weak shall we say. Getting a Couturier or Huberdeau would be nice (and a great marketing coup!) but you're talking about moving into the top 10, possibly even top 5-7 at the very least. That's a tough trade to make, and I don't know if we have the horses to do it. Plus, to be honest with you, I wasn't overly impressed with Couturier (who seems to be falling) and Huberdeau reminds me of Benoit Pouliot. Lot of skill, good size, not very physical. I just think that we need to have a cultural mind shift in the organization, that recognizes that you can be good AND big. Of course I don't want to return to the Boeuf de l'Ouest days of Andre Savard, but on the other hand I don't want us to pass on the next Chara (or heck, Myers), simply because there was a safer second line winger available. Is Oleksiak going to be the next Chara? Well, I don't know, but I wouldn't be opposed to finding out. Like you said, a Tinordi-Oleksiak duo would be impressive, even if it only happens 5-7 years from now. Which is what I mean by a cultural mind-shift; we can't be looking at the current team and say "we need size next year" - we need to start thinking "we need size - always." Of course that doesn't mean we should be drafting the biggest guy available all the time, but if he's still around when we pick (which I don't think he will be), then why not? I'd rather take my chances on a bigger Ryan McDonagh (ouch!) then add another Leblanc/Kristo/Higgins/Chipchura/Kostitsyin/Perezhoghin to the system. Of course if we can add another Pacioretty to the system, then great, but I like the freak nature of adding a Redwood to the lineup. (For the record, I like Leblanc - I'm just saying I don't think he's going to be a game-breaker, more like a good second line winger) Nobody wants us? The Habs certainly do .... Tinordi, McDonnagh, Fischer, Komisarek, Hainsey ... all drafted in the first round (in the last decade), and took the NCAA/USHL route. Not one worked out (too early to tell for Tinordi, I hope he is a gamer) for the Habs, not one lived up to the hype. We actually do better drafting d-men in the second round (Subban, Emelin, Carle, Linhart). The notion that the Habs don't draft "big d-men" is totally false ... we do. I agree there has to be a cultural shift. The scouts got to start doing their homework better and actually select players in the first round that pan out. Now I realize drafting forwards hasn't been a strong point over the last decade either .... Leblanc, Pacioretty, Chipchura, Kostitsyn, Higgins, Perezhogin, and Hossa. But the report card appears to be way better than the forwards. Three top 6 forwards (two mind you still at the potential stage I know), one strong third liner, and 3 busts. I don't mind the Habs picking d-men, heck even pick NCAA d-men ... but just once, have one pan out. Our record at drafting that route is WEAK to say the least. |
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Post by seventeen on Apr 18, 2011 11:06:11 GMT -5
McDonagh might end up being an exception (to my surprise).
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Post by Skilly on Apr 18, 2011 12:30:01 GMT -5
McDonagh might end up being an exception (to my surprise). I would argue that McDonnagh and Hainsey ... and to some degree Komisarek have worked out. But NOT for Montreal. It gets old drafting for other teams and getting nothing in return ... |
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Post by GNick99 on May 2, 2011 10:39:04 GMT -5
I'd like to see us make some noise at this draft. Tired of the same ole mundane draft scenario. Let's create some excitement around the team and draft. It has been a generation since we did something major at the draft. Trading Rick Wamsley for pick to get Shayne Corson last time we traded up if I am not mistaken.
How about trading our #1 pick with Gorges and Kostitsyn to move up and draft Ryan Nugent-Hopkins or Sean Couturier or Huberdeau? Take the 6 million we save in salary on above 2 and venture big in the free agent market? Or keep the extra cap room until trade deadline and can add a star for playoff/Cup run?
We are giving up 3 good assets but getting back 2 very good or great assets.
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Post by GNick99 on May 6, 2011 5:49:28 GMT -5
Nobody else agree disagree with this? Draft a Huderdeau or Couturier, player who has a chance to be something major. Sign a Laich with extra cash, some size down middle, 20-25 goalish, around 3 million. Have enough cash to keep defensemen we want
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Post by BadCompany on May 6, 2011 6:17:37 GMT -5
I think everybody would love to get either Huberdeau or Couturier, but I think it's pretty unrealistic. We're talking about two top 10, possibly top 5 picks in a draft that has a mark-able drop in talent after the top-end guys. You'd have to offer up quite the package to get those guys I think, and I'm not sure I would want to do that.
I use the RFA scale for comparison; if you want to sign a star RFA it costs you draft picks in compensation, right? So if it's a really good player, it's going to cost you four first round picks. If Huberdeau or Couturier are projected to be really good players, then if I am a team in a position to draft them I would want the equivalent of four first round picks coming back. Slide the scale backwards to whatever level you think Couturier or Huberdeau will reach, be it three first rounders, two first rounders, or one first rounder (which would beg the question, "why make the deal?").
It's hard to move into the top 5 or of a draft, which is probably why it doesn't happen often. When was the last time it did? Aside from Boston accidentally falling into the top 3 I can't remember the last time a team moved that far up. Philadelphia to get Joni Pitkanen maybe? Vancouver to get both Sedins? It doesn't happen often at any rate.
Personally, I would seriously explore trading away the pick all-together (gasp!). I'm a draft junkie for sure, but this is supposed to be a weak draft, and we have a mediocre pick. So I would offer it up to Columbus for RJ Umberger. Not the sexiest of names out there, but a solid 25 goal scorer with not insignificant size, playing for a team that would probably love to have more picks for their never-ending rebuild. Umberger is going into his UFA season ("you're my soul, and my highest inspiration") and in a twist is actually going to get paid MORE than what his cap hit is. Which is to the benefit of a big market team like us trying to get a player off a cheap, small market team like Columbus.
Granted, it would mean that we don't have a pick until the 3rd round but oh well.
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Post by Boston_Habs on May 6, 2011 8:08:52 GMT -5
Personally, I would seriously explore trading away the pick all-together (gasp!). Smart move if we can pull it off, BC. If we can unload the pick for a real player I'd do it in a heartbeat. Like you said, it's a weak draft and if we could pry an asset like Umberger away from Columbus then that would be great. It might cost more than just a 1st, but still worth it, even if Umberger is a UFA after next season. Depends if the Jackets plan on trying to keep him long-term. We did that a while back when we traded our 1st round pick in 1999 to the Islanders for Trevor Linden. I was shocked at the time, since we were a lousy team and we needed to rebuild. But it was a weak draft where we were picking, which was 10th overall. The pick ended up being Branislav Mezei (forgettable player) and nobody else of any real significance was picked after that. Linden wasn't around very long, but he filled a need and ended up being used in the Richard Zednik deal. Next season is a HUGE year for the Habs, IMO. We made real strides this year in terms of wins and points, but it's time to take it up a notch and see if this group can REALLY contend. It will be the 3rd year of the rebuild that Gainey started with the big UFA haul of 2009, Martin's 3rd year, the return (hopefully) of Markov.....I am expecting a 100-point season, top 4/5 team next year. I'd rather add some beef to that lineup rather than take a low-level pick in a weak draft. |
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Post by GNick99 on May 8, 2011 4:03:21 GMT -5
I wouldn't trade our first pick for immediate help. Did that in '08, look what we got? We past up a lot of good talent, John Carlson, Tyler Ennis, etc... Those kinds of trades don't really pan out, the most we would get in return is a secondary scorer and Timmins has decent history at draft table. Solid chance another Subban or Pacioretty you are tradeing. I would be willing to move the pick up or down but not trade pick altogether.
Trade to draft higher frees up a lot of cap room and player like Laich adds 22-23 gaols and toughness, can play him center or wing. Also, good chance team hit a homerun with Huberdeau or Couturier. Last time Timmins drafted this high we got Carey Price. Addresses many of our needs. Puts blue chip prospect in system, frees up caproom allows us to keep everybody else. That we want to keep. Increases size and toughness on top 2 lines. I'm willing to include the players and picks to move up, our top pick plus a Kostitsyn and Gorges something of that level.
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Post by Patty Roy on May 8, 2011 12:50:26 GMT -5
A couple of years ago i felt like we were in a position to move our 1st for immediate help. At this point the cupboard is looking kind of bare so i definitely think we should be keeping the pick.
Don't really have a preference on a D or F with this draft...we need prospect depth at both positions. I'm just starting to familiarize myself with this years crop, and guys like Mark McNeill and Tyler Biggs both seem to have that size/power game that we are looking for in a young forward..and both project to be around when he pick at 17.
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Post by seventeen on May 8, 2011 13:11:36 GMT -5
I wouldn't trade our first pick for immediate help. Did that in '08, look what we got? We past up a lot of good talent, John Carlson, Tyler Ennis, etc... It all depends on the draft year gnick. The example provided by BostonHabs is much closer to today's reality than the example you gave, because of the quality of the draft. I hate trading picks, absolutely hate it. Except in this type of case. You may get someone like Umberger, or another player entirely- hopefully with more than 1 yr left on the contract, and give up basically nothing. The stats for that 1999 draft were awful. The players of note in the first round (and 'of note' means would you recognize the name) were the Patrick Stefan (who amounted to nothing) the Sedins.Tim Connolly, Taylor Pyatt, Barrett Jackman, Nick Boynton and Martin Havlat. Outside of the Sedins no impact players and that's out of 28 guys picked! See anyone there you'd rather have than say, Umberger? Jackman probably and maybe Havlat. What are the odds we'd pick one of those guys? Now 2011 may not be as bad as 1999, but I don't get such a warm and fuzzy feeling about it. We saw Coutourier at the WJC. Does he look anything like Taylor Hall from 2 years earlier? Not nearly the impact guy, though I think he'll turn into a good NHL'r. Hall, though, is a grade above. I think that's what BC is suggesting. There's not a lot of downside to the strategy, providing you find a GM who's much more optimistic about the draft. |
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Post by Anardil1 on May 8, 2011 16:40:19 GMT -5
A couple of years ago i felt like we were in a position to move our 1st for immediate help. At this point the cupboard is looking kind of bare so i definitely think we should be keeping the pick. Don't really have a preference on a D or F with this draft...we need prospect depth at both positions. I'm just starting to familiarize myself with this years crop, and guys like Mark McNeill and Tyler Biggs both seem to have that size/power game that we are looking for in a young forward..and both project to be around when he pick at 17. I agree on McNeil, however, Biggs is a no go for me. Kids that have the upside to be the next Turner Stevenson, should never be selected in the 1st round. |
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Post by Patty Roy on May 8, 2011 19:34:25 GMT -5
I agree on McNeil, however, Biggs is a no go for me. Kids that have the upside to be the next Turner Stevenson, should never be selected in the 1st round. I've never seen him play, certainly there are some real legit concerns about his lack of hockey sense and his poor offensive numbers. Then again Milan Lucic scored 9 goals in the WHL in his draft year. |
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Post by BadCompany on May 9, 2011 6:37:35 GMT -5
Solid chance another Subban or Pacioretty you are tradeing. That's where you really have to have faith and trust in your scouting staff. If Timmins comes up to you and says Biggs and/or McNeil are the next Pacioretty/Lucic, then of course you keep the pick. But if he says "this is a weak draft, you're looking at the next Kyle Chipchura or Jason Ward" then moving the pick doesn't seem so bad. We're not the experts so it's impossible for us to really say, but if that's the message I'm getting from my scouting staff, then by all means I'm shopping it. I think you'd have to look beyond a scout's actual picks and see their "lists" to get a real good idea of how good a scout they are. Sure, nailing PK Subban in the second round makes Timmins look like a genius, but what if his second round list had TJ Brennan, Taylor Egglington and Tommy Cross ranked ahead of Subban, and he was disappointed to "have" to take Subban? I'm not saying this is the case, but it is food for thought I suppose. |
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Post by Skilly on May 9, 2011 8:58:24 GMT -5
I wouldn't trade our first pick for immediate help. Did that in '08, look what we got? We past up a lot of good talent, John Carlson, Tyler Ennis, etc... Those kinds of trades don't really pan out, the most we would get in return is a secondary scorer and Timmins has decent history at draft table. Solid chance another Subban or Pacioretty you are tradeing. I would be willing to move the pick up or down but not trade pick altogether. etc? Who are the others? The Flames that year actually selected the guy I had the Habs selecting - Greg Nemisz. After that selection the pickings were slim. Yes, Ennis was there ... but you think Montreal really wanted to draft a small player? You assume Montreal had Carlson high on their board too. Although he was a USHL product, so he probably was. IMO, there was nothing wrong with trading the #25 selection - the return is another matter (Tanguay) and not sure we needed to include the second rounder either. Ahhhhh but Carey Price was not #1 on the Habs board that year .... Timmins, Gainey et al were hoping Pouliot was going to slip past Minnesota. Give them kudos for having a plan B, no doubt, but it does go to illustrate BC's point about what a team's list looks like. If you looked down at the Habs list in 2005 and saw Crosby, Pouliot, Price, and Ryan as the top 4 .... makes you wonder, well it makes me wonder anyway |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on May 19, 2011 11:44:16 GMT -5
I've heard the HABS are really hot for one of the Q kids: Couturier/Huberdeau and will definitely try to trade up. Ooooooh, Huberdeau. He would cost a pretty penny though to move up. A lot better than what we will likely find available at 15-18th though. Been hearing some good things about Jonathan Huberdeau. His numbers are good and apparently he's faster than Courtourier. I'll have to take a look around when I have more time, but where is he rated? Cheers. Edit: He's rated number 3 if Wikipedia is on. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NHL_Central_Scouting_Bureau (link) |
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Post by Doc Holliday on May 19, 2011 12:33:02 GMT -5
Couturier seem to have this Jeff Carter/Ryan Getlaf tag right now. Big guys who, for some reason, get somewhat of a cold shoulder from scouts. I guess guys this big are naturally expected to completely dominate the league or else... Heck 96 points in 58 games is not chopped liver. He is a strong talented skater and he has the size and fill of a thoroughbred NHL center. Especially on a team so cruelly lacking size up front.
I like Huberdeau as well, but it's a completely different breed. More of a Ribeiro/Brassard kind of player in my opinion (and you know I like both!). He appears like a safer pick in terms of projected development but he'll never bring the kind of game Couturier can if Sean puts it together.
In any case, I'd be thrilled if we could get either and as I said, given how "poor" this draft is rumoured to be I'd jump on this occasion to move up to grab one and heck, why not both! That would be quite a coup wouldn't it!
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Post by BadCompany on May 26, 2011 9:21:45 GMT -5
I don't think we'll be able to move up to the 5th or 6th spot (or even higher) that it would take at this point to get either Couturier or Huberdeau. In a somewhat weak draft that seems to have a talent gap between the top eight or so and the rest of the field I don't see too many of those teams that are picking early willing to drop that far down.
Having said that, Columbus (#8) is rumored to be actively shopping their pick for immediate help, as they are a franchise that is at the cross-roads and desperately needs a good, if not stellar season next year just to survive. So they could be a target. I also have a gut feeling that Colorado (#11) is willing to move. They have the #2 overall so they are "guaranteed" a blue-chip prospect, and if they can use the #11 to add depth, immediate help, or both, I see no reason why they wouldn't be willing to listen.
If Gauthier wants to move that high I would be willing to bet it's to get Ryan Strome. But that's just me.
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Post by Skilly on May 26, 2011 9:34:36 GMT -5
If Gauthier wants to move that high I would be willing to bet it's to get Ryan Strome. But that's just me. That would go against the whole Timmins drafting philosophy .... but it sure would delight me!! |
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Post by seventeen on May 29, 2011 19:10:40 GMT -5
If you're watching the Mem Cup right now, there's a centre/right winger for St. John, Zack Phillips, who is currently in our drafting range. Average size, at 6' 180 lbs and really nice hands. His skating looks ok, but not great. That might be his weak area. He just scored a goal on a pass from Huburdeau, one of those bang bang plays. First timed it right in front and squeaked it through the goalie's legs. He had 38 goals and 57 assists in 67 games. Only 16 PIM's, so he's not a tough guy, but I don't see him avoiding checks and he's very responsible defensively, which would thrill Martin. It doesn't look like he's playing with Huburdeau, but he's on the PP with him. He's an 18 year old, turning 19 in October, so more mature than many draftees. I won't hold that against him as two other guys with late birthdays who you might recognize are Mario Lemieux and Taylor Hall.
He's not the BIG centre everyone wants, but I'm not keen on big for big's sake. We can fix that with Eager or McIntyre.
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Post by Tankdriver on May 30, 2011 11:46:49 GMT -5
How about Tomas Jurco from the Sea Dogs? He is ranked number 20th in the TSN CS Final Rankings. My friend jut pointed this guy out to me today. This guy has got sick hands and has some talent. 20 JURCO, TOMAS QMJHL 12/28/92 6' 2" 187 RW 60 GP 31G 25A 56 Points 17PIM Here's a video on you tube: www.youtube.com/watch?v=32aEQd8DcKU&feature=shareIf this doesn't work it is called Tomas Jurco the Magician. |
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Post by NWTHabsFan on May 31, 2011 13:30:27 GMT -5
How about Tomas Jurco from the Sea Dogs? He is ranked number 20th in the TSN CS Final Rankings. My friend jut pointed this guy out to me today. This guy has got sick hands and has some talent. 20 JURCO, TOMAS QMJHL 12/28/92 6' 2" 187 RW 60 GP 31G 25A 56 Points 17PIM Here's a video on you tube: www.youtube.com/watch?v=32aEQd8DcKU&feature=shareIf this doesn't work it is called Tomas Jurco the Magician. He has some sick skill. The question mark seemed to be his compete level and consistency. I sure didn't see evidence of that too much in the Memorial Cup. He is back on my radar screen as I prepare my mock draft and list of whom I would like the Habs to consider with their various picks. This is another weird draft year. Picks #10-30 are likely a bit of a personal crap shoot. The individual teams will likely have a lot of different permutations and combinations at those spots. I really don't mind our spot at 17th, but I sure wish we had a second rounder. The Habs have the best historical track record of converting second round picks into NHLers. It is a shame that we give those picks away a lot recently. |
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Post by NWTHabsFan on May 31, 2011 13:34:33 GMT -5
Many teams are rumoured to be avoiding defenseman in first round, if this causes defenseman rated 7-8th to slide could be an opportunity for us. I am hoping for a skilled forward, but if enough teams pass up on a guy like Murphy, Hamilton or Siemens, it would be really hard to pass one of those guys up. It would take a lot of teams going with forwards though. As you say, it way well end up happening if that sentiment holds true right up until draft day. |
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Talk about gaining size in your lineup! Plus he's got that unspellable last name that we seem to love here 
Seriously though, if he's still around when we pick he'd be a steal.
