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Post by Doc Holliday on Aug 4, 2011 11:27:44 GMT -5
In Greece, they got an airport built with private money. Perhaps not the best example to go by in terms of a well run country...  The problem here IS the "private" industry. |
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Post by BadCompany on Aug 4, 2011 11:32:17 GMT -5
I understand the logic of "pay per use" and in theory I have nothing against it. But at what point do you draw the line?? I hate to sound like one of those Tea Party wingnuts, but Quebecers are the highest taxed people in all of North America (as we know) and yet we seem to have the lowest level of service. The corruption within the construction industry is well known, and it extends to the highest levels of ALL governments. We're not talking about one bridge that went over budget through extenuating circumstances. We're talking about every single construction project within the province. Hyperbole? Perhaps, but I dare you to find a single major construction job, publicly funded, that came in on time and on budget. I cannot think of a single one. And they usually miss BIG. Like the aforementioned Dorval Circle. Double the time, double the cost, and counting. The super-hospital, the Laval metro extension, the 30, every bridge... check out the cost-overruns on these projects. Each one of them cost hundreds of millions more than predicted, and were/are years behind schedule. Do you keep funding incompetence with MORE money?? The change your restrictive labour laws and let it be a PRIVATE venture. In private ventures, there is no corruption because it's THEIR money. We got a highway built (403) with private money. In Greece, they got an airport built with private money. In Ontario, we got billions in greenwash money. What not Quebec? Or is Quebec special? Life can be simple. And how do you go about doing that? See above... You can't change the labor laws because...well who is going to change them? The politicians that get the kickbacks? Not likely, it's free money for them. The private construction companies? Not likely either. They simply throw a few bucks at whatever government is in charge, and then reap the rewards when their "estimates" are short by a few hundred million dollars. The construction unions? See above, with how closely they are tied to the government and the private construction companies. I am a card-carrying member of a Quebec construction union (well, not carrying, I have no idea where it is now) and I can tell you that I saw no difference between the CCQ (Commission de la Construction du Quebec) and my union. They both screwed me, with equal measure. Often on the same issue. They collude, scheme and steal with equal aplomb. See the comments from the HEAD of one of these unions, regarding how closely his union is tied to the government and private construction companies, and how rife with crime everything is. And that's from the head of a union (who for his troubles had his truck set on fire). The whole industry is corrupt. Which is why I don't like the idea of tolls. It's just more money for a corrupt machine. I have serious doubts that any money that comes from a toll would be kicked backed into the actual road the toll sits on. Why should it? There is no accountability, there is no record keeping, there is no policing. Why would you repair the road, when you can repair your boat instead? One of two things need to happen before the industry gets cleaned up: 1) Somebody of immense personal integrity runs for office with the express purpose of cleaning up the industry. Somebody who is so far beyond reproach that there is no way they could be tied to any sort of corruption, and there is no way people wouldn't listen to them. The only person I can think of who could pull that off would be Jean Beliveau, but of course he is way too classy to even consider wallowing in the mud with politicians. 2) A massive disaster has to happen. Five people dying in Laval wasn't enough. It has to be big. Like, Champlain Bridge collapsing and 800 people plummeting to their screaming deaths big. Bodies have to be washing up on the shore for hundreds of miles, perhaps even as far as Quebec City. It has to be so devastating that there will be no choice but to throw a whack of people in jail and clean up the industry to the point where people have faith in it. Until then I just can't stomach the idea of giving money to a toll booth. That money will go to a private construction company with no incentive to actually do what they promise (or punishment should they not do what they promise, right now they can miss their estimates by years and hundreds of millions of dollars), which in turn throws money at a politician and/or union leader to look the other way, and quietly goes about it's business of not repairing/building/maintaining the infrastructure. Its throwing good money after bad, if you ask me. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Aug 4, 2011 11:36:42 GMT -5
Where is that money going to go......G-strings in high end gentleman's clubs? (Spiro??) Problem? Not if spent wisely good sir. ;D |
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Post by jkr on Aug 4, 2011 11:56:17 GMT -5
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Post by Roggy on Aug 4, 2011 12:30:56 GMT -5
Wow, I guess I just can't imagine the feeling of helplessness of the ordinary Quebec citizen. That all sounds just brutal.
I suspect we're a little spoiled in Alberta, we grow political parties on a whim and they seem to keep the provincial Conservatives in check. The latest is the Wild Rose, who gained a lot of support (though not seats) when Ralph Klein left office and Ed Stelmach suddenly turned part socialist and started meddling with energy revenues.
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Post by Cranky on Aug 4, 2011 12:52:15 GMT -5
In Greece, they got an airport built with private money. Perhaps not the best example to go by in terms of a well run country... The problem here IS the "private" industry. There is no link to politicians with endless buckets of free ice cream and private funds constructing a major project. As for the private companies.....it stems from the restricted labour laws. That is something Quebecers need to deal with.....or die with. |
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Post by Cranky on Aug 4, 2011 12:59:54 GMT -5
And how do you go about doing that? See above... You can't change the labor laws because...well who is going to change them? The politicians that get the kickbacks? Not likely, it's free money for them. The private construction companies? Not likely either. They simply throw a few bucks at whatever government is in charge, and then reap the rewards when their "estimates" are short by a few hundred million dollars. The construction unions? See above, with how closely they are tied to the government and the private construction companies. I am a card-carrying member of a Quebec construction union (well, not carrying, I have no idea where it is now) and I can tell you that I saw no difference between the CCQ (Commission de la Construction du Quebec) and my union. They both screwed me, with equal measure. Often on the same issue. They collude, scheme and steal with equal aplomb. See the comments from the HEAD of one of these unions, regarding how closely his union is tied to the government and private construction companies, and how rife with crime everything is. And that's from the head of a union (who for his troubles had his truck set on fire). The whole industry is corrupt. Which is why I don't like the idea of tolls. It's just more money for a corrupt machine. I have serious doubts that any money that comes from a toll would be kicked backed into the actual road the toll sits on. Why should it? There is no accountability, there is no record keeping, there is no policing. Why would you repair the road, when you can repair your boat instead? One of two things need to happen before the industry gets cleaned up: 1) Somebody of immense personal integrity runs for office with the express purpose of cleaning up the industry. Somebody who is so far beyond reproach that there is no way they could be tied to any sort of corruption, and there is no way people wouldn't listen to them. The only person I can think of who could pull that off would be Jean Beliveau, but of course he is way too classy to even consider wallowing in the mud with politicians. 2) A massive disaster has to happen. Five people dying in Laval wasn't enough. It has to be big. Like, Champlain Bridge collapsing and 800 people plummeting to their screaming deaths big. Bodies have to be washing up on the shore for hundreds of miles, perhaps even as far as Quebec City. It has to be so devastating that there will be no choice but to throw a whack of people in jail and clean up the industry to the point where people have faith in it. Until then I just can't stomach the idea of giving money to a toll booth. That money will go to a private construction company with no incentive to actually do what they promise (or punishment should they not do what they promise, right now they can miss their estimates by years and hundreds of millions of dollars), which in turn throws money at a politician and/or union leader to look the other way, and quietly goes about it's business of not repairing/building/maintaining the infrastructure. Its throwing good money after bad, if you ask me. Would you like to hear my anti union rant? Do you have month or so? See my above answer to Doc. If there is no will by the Quebec people to deal with corruption in a nasty, terminal way, then they will live and die by that. What I don't want to see is more demands for hand outs because it simply feeds the problem. Have you ever seen anything get better or attitudes changing if the other guy pays for the problem? The ONLY way it changes is if it hurts. Perhaps your example of bodies flowing down the river is pretty dark but maybe the only way.....but it doesn't have to be that way. BTW, Canada is choking with investment money looking for a home. I kid you not. |
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Post by franko on Aug 4, 2011 13:36:51 GMT -5
The population is torn on everything and anything... see the kind of political hanky panky that goes on by tring to actually build an hockey arena in our Capital... Every projects, every decisions end up being an ordeal... So political parties tune into this and simply do...well...nothing. perfect description of life in Ottawa. no train/metro no Landsdown refit no will in leadership . . . and when there is, one faction takes another faction to court and it is delay delay delay . . . and more nothing. |
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Post by franko on Aug 4, 2011 13:38:30 GMT -5
I'm tired of all the complexity in these issues. Take for example yesterday. We went to five stores to find shorts to beat the heat. Can't find any. So go naked. Cooler and doesn't cost a penny. so you're the guy who keeps driving through Tim Horton's . . . c'mon, at least put on one of BC's g-strings. |
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Post by seventeen on Aug 4, 2011 18:44:28 GMT -5
BTW, Canada is choking with investment money looking for a home. I kid you not. I'll look after it.  |
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Post by Doc Holliday on Aug 5, 2011 10:18:17 GMT -5
Perhaps not the best example to go by in terms of a well run country... The problem here IS the "private" industry. There is no link to politicians with endless buckets of free ice cream and private funds constructing a major project. As for the private companies.....it stems from the restricted labour laws. That is something Quebecers need to deal with.....or die with. I don't have recent numbers but a few years ago it was reported that Quebec was the most Unionized nation with close to 50% of its working population under Union. It IS a problem and a huge one indeed. But as I said, every political parties a so much Center-Left here that there is a big room for a true and true Right Wing party. You need a strong pig headed Leader though. |
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Post by Cranky on Aug 5, 2011 11:16:59 GMT -5
There is no link to politicians with endless buckets of free ice cream and private funds constructing a major project. As for the private companies.....it stems from the restricted labour laws. That is something Quebecers need to deal with.....or die with. I don't have recent numbers but a few years ago it was reported that Quebec was the most Unionized nation with close to 50% of its working population under Union. It IS a problem and a huge one indeed. But as I said, every political parties a so much Center-Left here that there is a big room for a true and true Right Wing party. You need a strong pig headed Leader though. When I was a student in Montreal, I worked for a trucking company and my union comrades didn't want me to work on weekends even though the company had to deliver the product over the weekend. As a student, the weekend work was perfect for me. Nobody wanted to work on the "Lords day of rest" and they didn't want anyone else to do it either. So the company closed. Then there was one of Quebec customers which was a branch plant. The company made it very clear that if they unionize, it will close (but never officially). The place had rules that pretty much ran with any union contract. Well paid jobs, protected seniority, etc. They went union. Company shut down. Years earlier, the same thing happened to my first real job. Do you have a month or so to read my anti-union rant? As for a right wing party in Quebec. How? If 50% are union, there is no chance in hell that the rest will be as motivated to vote as that 50%. Second thing is that strong unions can paralyze a government and most governments will give in long before that. I like to see the provinces pay their own way with no transfers from the federal government of any type. Not only for Quebec but for the rest of Canada. Then lets see how all those leftist tax and spend programs work out. Hello Greece. |
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Post by Doc Holliday on Aug 5, 2011 13:03:50 GMT -5
I'm not anti-union per say. They are a necessary counterweight and a good way to standardize employment conditions in a large company. As well, you don't have to go too far back in Quebec's history to find out how badly exploited the population once was.
Personnal story: a few years back the company I worked for was in trouble, they asked their unionnized workers to take a momentary pay cut in order to give the company some breathing room. Union didn't back down one tiny bit, the plant closed and the company went under. About 200 jobs lost. I was appalled at how the Union stance forced the closure and put so many people out of a job. A little later I found out that the owners did the same thing a few years before, they cried poor to the Union, who signed on a large pay cut to save jobs. It was a ploy. Owners turned around with that freed money and opened a new Plant in Ontario where they eventually transferred a huge chunk of the production... So in retrospect I understood better how the Union didn't want to back down the second time around. Broken trust.
As with everything you need to find a balance and right now Union have too much political power.
As I said, about 6-7 years ago the ADQ, a right wing party, came within a few seats to take on the government. The ended up being the official opposition. In a perfect position to gain more momentum and get ready for the next election. But instead of continuing with their plan, they completely collapse and started backing down on every idea they had, moving back towards Center, probably even more to the Left than the Liberals are. The following election they got wiped out of the map.
I think the population here is really fed up with the same old and their vote can wildly swing towards what is percevied as "different", a "change". See the NDP wave we sent to Ottawa... Quebec ended up voting for anybody (literally) BUT the traditional parties. It's a dangerous state of mind for a population to be in...
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Aug 5, 2011 17:20:29 GMT -5
I'm not anti-union per say. They are a necessary counterweight and a good way to standardize employment conditions in a large company. The unions do have their positive sides. A close family member of mine just recently beat Corporate Loblaws in a wrongful dismissal suit. The moment the union learned of the dismissal it was all positive. If you're right they'll back you all the way and Loblaws lost huge. However, when you're talking the power of a union, we're talking about shutting down an education system, auto production, postal systems and transit systems just to name a few. They can shut down an entire country in some cases. The message was loud and clear; give us some responsible government. Remember; we're capable of anything. Dangerous, yes, absolutely. Willing to prove a point, yes, absolutely! Cheers. |
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Post by Cranky on Aug 6, 2011 1:03:01 GMT -5
Quebec ended up voting for anybody (literally) BUT the traditional parties. It's a dangerous state of mind for a population to be in... Oh boy.....I think I might hate the answer but I'll ask the question. What do you mean? |
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Post by Doc Holliday on Aug 6, 2011 8:45:54 GMT -5
Quebec ended up voting for anybody (literally) BUT the traditional parties. It's a dangerous state of mind for a population to be in... Oh boy.....I think I might hate the answer but I'll ask the question. What do you mean? I mean the population is so fed up with the traditional parties that a somewhat charismatic leader can rise and massively wow the votes, almost regardless of his team and program, mostly because he represents change. |
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Post by BadCompany on Sept 15, 2011 11:40:08 GMT -5
The more things change... wait? Change?? All articles were posted today (Sept. 15th). Quebec anti-corruption squad sounds alarmQuebec's transport minister has dismissed calls for a full-scale enquiry into the construction industry, despite a damning anti-corruption squad report that details a deeply rooted clandestine public tender system marked by cost overruns and bid-rigging.www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2011/09/15/quebec-construction-sector-collusion-squad.htmlAnd... 12 Montreal bridges and overpasses deemed 'critical'A dozen bridges in the City of Montreal have been deemed to be in 'critical' condition.
The city released detailed reports on the state of its road structures Wednesday and announced plans to spend $157 million over the next three years to repair bridges and overpasses deemed to be in the worst condition.
Inspection reports for 35 key structures were also released showing 24 have been deemed "problematic" and 12 in a "critical" state.www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2011/09/14/montreal-roads-critical.htmlAND... Whither Big Owe? Public to ponder stadium's futureQuebecers are being invited to come up with ideas for the future of the billion-dollar Olympic Stadium — the seldom-used building with the unstable roof.
Everything's on the table for Montreal's "Big O" except the frequently touted one: blowing it up.
For the first time, the provincial agency in charge of the aging stadium – also known as the "Big Owe" – will accept suggestions from the public beginning next week.www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2011/09/15/montreal-olympic-stadium-future-cp.html |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Sept 15, 2011 12:34:23 GMT -5
On a much lower scale, I'm in the process now of taking on the city of Kingston. The city sewer outside of my house backs up during torrential downpours. It turns my section of the street into a lake and that lake ends up in my basement, through my driveway.
I've had city representatives come out only to suggest what I can do to my property, at my cost, to help prevent the water from going onto my property. This is unacceptable and I've since requested from my councilor the procedure for getting time to address the City Council.
I'm looking forward to seeing how this process unfolds.
Cheers.
PS. No questions on this please. There's only so much I can divulge publicly. Thanks.
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Post by franko on Sept 15, 2011 13:36:05 GMT -5
go Dis go . . . we're pulling for you!  |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Sept 15, 2011 14:04:06 GMT -5
go Dis go . . . we're pulling for you! Thanks Franko. Interestingly enough, I see my tax dollars at work all over Kingston. I don't think there's a main vain in the city that isn't under some sort of restoration, and in some cases improvement. In this context I feel very grateful seeing my taxes being put to use. I need only look at Montreal to see the implications of letting things go on too long. Cheers. |
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Post by Cranky on Sept 16, 2011 0:10:01 GMT -5
Dis..... Do you need some muscle? I heard from a reputable source that I can't divulge (CO) because it's top secret (CO) , when people are in pain, they are more cooperative. *shrug* Behind my building there is a storm run-off ditch that the city let overgrow and backfill. When we had a sudden melt, I called the fire department to drain it. Then I called the city and wanted to speak to the roads department manager because my next course of action was a multi million dollar lawsuit for equipment damage and unknown tens of millions in lost business. Nine AM the next morning, a city back-hoe is opening the ditch....two inches wider then the Panama Canal. One word of advice, NEVER offer to do anything and keep EVERY record possible. Pictures, names, dates , etc. You will need every piece of it in court. Particularly important is to take a picture of the person who came out there to look at the problem with you. Both of you must be in the picture. It rattles the hell out of them when you do that. Also, get the name of their legal reps and CC a copy of whatever you send the city to them. They WILL contact the roads department as a normal course of legal business, senior city people. If they think that you can screw them over legally, they are a hundred times more likely to act fast. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Sept 16, 2011 6:43:23 GMT -5
Dis..... Do you need some muscle? I heard from a reputable source that I can't divulge (CO) because it's top secret (CO) , when people are in pain, they are more cooperative. *shrug* This guy has always been in my corner when need be. When you have time Google the "drainage act." You'll have to be a lawyer in order to decipher it. However, I'm going through it now. I have the dates, times, names right from day-one. Something I learned in the military. The process of filing a claim with the City Clerk is not difficult. Once my claim is filed the city passes it to an independent arbirtator for resolution. The problem I have is that, I believe it's the city who selects the arbitrator. To me, anyway, this is a conflict of interest and if this is so, I'll be addressing it. I have since heard back from my councillor and I have the procedure for requesting my time, all 5 minutes of it, with the Council. From what I've been told by others who have been in my position, I can expect unaccoutability and lip service. However, whenever I've heard explanations like this it only motivates me to the next level of escalation. And, if this is the case, then I have other directions I can move in. It won't be over by a longshot. Tell you what, though, I'll try to drop you a line over the weekend. I'd like to hear a bit more about the resolution of your situation. ZUJ. Dis |
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Post by Roggy on Oct 24, 2011 21:46:38 GMT -5
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Post by BadCompany on Oct 31, 2011 10:41:01 GMT -5
Quebec anti-collusion boss Jacques Duchesneau firedQUEBEC - Jacques Duchesneau, the former Montreal police chief whose investigations confirmed that corruption and collusion involving organized crime and attempts to pay off politicians were widespread in Quebec, was fired Friday. His offence was saying a judge – not a police officer – should head UPAC, Quebec’s permanent anti-corruption unit. Duchesneau was summoned in the morning to the Fullum St. headquarters of UPAC. UPAC commissioner Robert Lafrenière informed Duchesneau that his contract to continue probing attempts at collusion to rig bids on public-sector construction contracts was finished. “Mr. Duchesneau had created doubts about UPAC and its leader,” said UPAC spokesperson Anne-Frédérick Laurence, adding Lafrenière told Duchesneau it would be “impossible” for him to continue. Lafrenière first called in Duchesneau when La Presse reported his comments after Duchesneau testified Sept. 22 at a National Assembly committee, following the leak of his report to the media. That night, after his testimony, Duchesneau gave a lift back to Montreal to La Presse reporter Michèle Ouimet, who wrote of their wide-ranging discussions about the career of Duchesneau in law enforcement and as one-time candidate for mayor of Montreal. At the end of the La Presse story, Duchesneau is quoted saying: “UPAC isn’t strong. They think like the police.” Lafrenière, 58, was deputy minister of public security before he was named head of UPAC. He was a senior public security official for eight years, after a 31-year police career, climbing to senior positions in the Sûreté du Québec. “There should not be a police officer at the head of UPAC, rather a retired judge like John Gomery,” Duchesneau told La Presse, referring to the judge who headed the public inquiry into the federal sponsorship scandal. In yielding last week to sustained pressure from opposition parties, mayors, the police, prosecutors and the public for a public inquiry into Quebec’s construction industry, Premier Jean Charest said Duchesneau’s report convinced him an inquiry was needed. “We uncovered a universe that was clandestine and well-rooted, of a surprising scope, harmful to society in terms of security and the economy, as well as for justice and democracy,” Duchesneau wrote. After interviewing more than 500 people involved construction in Quebec, Duchesneau found “people who were exasperated, even desperate, who needed support.” UPAC was created last February by the Charest government, taking over and expanding a team designated Operation Hammer. It has a $30.5-million budget and an authorized staff of 200 people, including police officers from the provincial, federal and municipal levels, as well as investigators from Revenue Quebec, the Commission de la construction du Québec, the Régie du bâtiment du Québec, municipal affairs and federal agencies, such as the Competition Bureau. Duchesneau was originally named in February 2010 by then-transport minister Julie Boulet to head an anti-collusion unit in her department, but stepped down in November 2010 after allegations he breached Quebec’s party financing laws, when he was a candidate in 1998 for mayor of Montreal. After Elections Québec cleared his name, Duchesneau returned in February 2011 to his job heading the anti-collusion squad, now integrated into UPAC. On Friday, Quebec’s opposition parties blamed the Charest government for Duchesneau’s firing, although the government insisted it was Lafrenière’s call. Duchesneau was “efficient, honest, competent,” said Action démocratique du Québec’s Sylvie Roy. For Stéphane Bergeron of the Parti Québécois, Duchesneau was fired “for talking too much and irritating the Liberal government.” Amir Khadir of Québec solidaire deplored the firing, saying that while Lafrenière found his remarks “disloyal” to himself, as UPAC head, “Duchesneau proved his greater loyalty to Quebec.” Hugo d’Amours, Charest’s press secretary, recalled that the premier “said many times he hoped Duchesneau could continue his work,” adding: “The premier was sincere, but UPAC is a totally independent body.” Duchesneau has said he planned to step down next March, when his contract was to end, to finish his doctoral thesis on air terrorism. He could not be reached for comment Friday. Mathieu St-Pierre, press secretary to Robert Dutil, Quebec’s public security minister, said Friday that UPAC is “totally independent” and had not informed the minister that Duchesneau had been let go. St-Pierre said he learned of Duchesneau’s firing in the media. kdougherty@montrealgazette.com UPAC takes calls from people wishing to report criminal acts in the construction industry at: 1 888 444-1701 or by email, upac@upac.gouv.qc.ca © Copyright (c) The Montreal Gazette Read more: www.montrealgazette.com/news/Quebec+anti+collusion+boss+Jacques+Duchesneau+fired/5623109/story.html#ixzz1cNHAtNpO
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Post by Cranky on Oct 31, 2011 12:26:41 GMT -5
I dare say that it will take the FEDERAL government to break this up.
On the other hand, I doubt that Harper is going to lift a finger to solve Quebecs corruption. There is simply nothing for him to gain from diving into the deep end of a quagmire. Worse still, Quebecer will probably say FU and "you owe us" then dismiss Harper gets his hands bloodied.
Good luck to Quebecers in solving this.
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Post by Roggy on Oct 31, 2011 13:22:20 GMT -5
That whole situation is screwed, is anybody in any powerful position not a corrupt a**hole?
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Post by BadCompany on Nov 8, 2012 12:53:22 GMT -5
Been a while for this thread, but I am starting to get hopeful that things are finally changing. The Charbonneau Commission, while not revealing anything that wasn't already suspected if not widely known, has nonetheless thrown the whole thing into the open. This week Montreal's mayor resigned over allegations of corruption, and tomorrow the mayor of Laval is expected to do the same. Two of the three biggest cities in Quebec are now without mayor.
Unprecedented change is upon us, if you ask me. Hopefully for the better.
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Post by franko on Nov 8, 2012 16:06:08 GMT -5
this is nothing new, is it? long and on-going, no?
"gimme that old time corruption, it's good enough for me"
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 8, 2012 17:56:38 GMT -5
I dare say that it will take the FEDERAL government to break this up. Dude ... Harper has the stones to make this happen. It would be in his best interests to see it through if he does, in fact, get involved. He's already stated he'll be helping Ms Marois in getting the provincial economy back on track. I really never knew just how badly the Charest Liberals let the province go until I read some of these threads. Cheers. |
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Post by Doc Holliday on Nov 12, 2012 10:27:38 GMT -5
I dare say that it will take the FEDERAL government to break this up. Dude ... Harper has the stones to make this happen. ...well, given how the Gomery commission was quite a joke, lemme doubt the corruption cleansing efficiency of the Feds... If Harper gets involved here things will get very complicated, very fast... As BC said what's coming out of the Charbonneau Commission is quite unprecedented. You probably have to go back to the 70s and the CECO commission to find an as vast workshop on corruption and organized crime, and even then, major political heads weren't rolling like they are now... Still it's a huuuuuuge undertaking... ...I am wondering what's the reaction in other provinces... Is it, "...pffft only in Quebec...they're soooo corrupted over there ..." or is it "...gee if it's happening over there just friggin' maybe it's happening here too ..." |
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