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Post by jkr on Nov 12, 2012 10:38:42 GMT -5
Dude ... Harper has the stones to make this happen. ...well, given how the Gomery commission was quite a joke, lemme doubt the corruption cleansing efficiency of the Feds... If Harper gets involved here things will get very complicated, very fast... As BC said what's coming out of the Charbonneau Commission is quite unprecedented. You probably have to go back to the 70s and the CECO commission to find an as vast workshop on corruption and organized crime, and even then, major political heads weren't rolling like they are now... Still it's a huuuuuuge undertaking... ...I am wondering what's the reaction in other provinces... Is it, "...pffft only in Quebec...they're soooo corrupted over there ..." or is it "...gee if it's happening over there just friggin' maybe it's happening here too ..."I stopped reading comments on internet stories about Quebec because of the obvious bigotry. The usual stuff: only in Quebec, let them separate, bla bla bla. However lately the tone has changed a little. People realize this can happen anywhere but the underlying anti french tone is still there. This is what the anonymity of the internet gives readers.  |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 12, 2012 11:42:47 GMT -5
...well, given how the Gomery commission was quite a joke, lemme doubt the corruption cleansing efficiency of the Feds... If Harper gets involved here things will get very complicated, very fast... As BC said what's coming out of the Charbonneau Commission is quite unprecedented. You probably have to go back to the 70s and the CECO commission to find an as vast workshop on corruption and organized crime, and even then, major political heads weren't rolling like they are now... Still it's a huuuuuuge undertaking... ...I am wondering what's the reaction in other provinces... Is it, "...pffft only in Quebec...they're soooo corrupted over there ..." or is it "...gee if it's happening over there just friggin' maybe it's happening here too ..."I stopped reading comments on internet stories about Quebec because of the obvious bigotry. The usual stuff: only in Quebec, let them separate, bla bla bla. However lately the tone has changed a little. People realize this can happen anywhere but the underlying anti french tone is still there. This is what the anonymity of the internet gives readers. I had a response all pounded out but it would change the direction of the thread and I don't want to do that. All I can say right now is, I don't see the underlying bigotry you're referring to, at least here where I live. If I were to dig for it on the internet I'm sure I'll find it (on both sides), though. I just won't be looking for anything like that anytime soon. I find people who participate on those kinds of sites often find what they're looking for whether it's there or not. BUT, those infrastructure problems in Montreal are still there and when I travel to Quebec I will go around the city. It's just not safe to drive on that friggin' freeway. Cheers. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 12, 2012 13:02:28 GMT -5
Dude ... Harper has the stones to make this happen. ...well, given how the Gomery commission was quite a joke, lemme doubt the corruption cleansing efficiency of the Feds... If Harper gets involved here things will get very complicated, very fast... I can't say whether Harper will get involved during the commission or not. While he does have the stones to do it, it wouldn't seem like the best political move on his part. I hope he sticks to his commitment that he'll help the provincial government in getting the Quebec economy turned around. But, I can't see this being a productive initiative until corruption is removed. Anything less than that and I see more misrouted monies, and more fatalities due to poor infrastructure. What is the worst-case/best-case scenario in your opinion? I can't say for sure, but maybe we're talking about demographics. As I was saying to JKR, I haven't experienced any anti-Quebec bigotry in quite some time. Having been across Canada I can tell you that this sentiment changes from place to place. And it's not just anti-Quebec rhetoric either. I never knew what kind of reputation Ontario had outside of it's own borders until I traveled outside of Ontario. Some people in the Praries have loathed Ontario for decades now ... I can attest to that first-hand. I've even had high school friends move from Ontario to find work out west in the 70's and some of them haven't been back. Taking it a step further, even people who live in Ontario, but who live outside of Toronto, tend to blame that city for every one of their province's woes. Many people outside of TO simply detest the city but if you talk with some Torontonians they'll tell you how long the city of TO has been keeping the province financially afloat. There are even others who will tell you how the province of Ontario has kept the country financially together for years too. I'd have to do my research to validate this, but at the same time it's time-consuming and, honestly, I could care less. It's just too 'upity-up' for my liking and regardless whether what they say is true or not, I can see where some of that anti-Ontario/TO rhetoric is coming from. And as far as Quebec demographics go, I've been the object of bigotry in that province several times over the years. But, that was many years ago and every time my wife and I visit Quebec now we're treated with respect. I've only been north of Quebec City on my way to the eastern provinces, but people have been polite and respectful to us. It's why we have no problems going back. Folks in Montreal and Quebec know how to treat their guests. Back to infrastructure. I think I mentioned it earlier in the thread, but here in Kingston infrastructure upkeep seems to be a non-stop project. As a home owner I've experienced increases in my property taxes every year and that's to pay for that upkeep. But, I have friends who have left Kingston for that very thing; taxes and more taxes. At least I'm seeing where some of those taxes are going I guess. Does the city of Montreal know where their tax dollars are going? Cheers. |
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Post by Doc Holliday on Nov 12, 2012 13:23:49 GMT -5
What is the worst-case/best-case scenario in your opinion? Worst case, the whole thing turns into a political show, a few scapegoats get sacrificed, then pressure diminish, the whole thing become "yesterday's news" and it's back to business as usual after a couple of months. Best case, they keep on digging, find the roots, remove it, and come up with clear cut anti-corruption laws and permanent independant monitoring squad. My question at how this was perceived outside of Quebec was not meant as an another kick at the old Quebec/ROC rivalry, but I was really wondering if other provinces looking in from the outside had the sentiment that if it's in Quebec it can be anywhere... I'm asking because I know someone who worked on a major public infrastructure project in the West and he had quite many hair rising stories... |
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Post by jkr on Nov 12, 2012 13:30:07 GMT -5
I stopped reading comments on internet stories about Quebec because of the obvious bigotry. The usual stuff: only in Quebec, let them separate, bla bla bla. However lately the tone has changed a little. People realize this can happen anywhere but the underlying anti french tone is still there. This is what the anonymity of the internet gives readers. I had a response all pounded out but it would change the direction of the thread and I don't want to do that. All I can say right now is, I don't see the underlying bigotry you're referring to, at least here where I live. If I were to dig for it on the internet I'm sure I'll find it (on both sides), though. I just won't be looking for anything like that anytime soon. I find people who participate on those kinds of sites often find what they're looking for whether it's there or not. BUT, those infrastructure problems in Montreal are still there and when I travel to Quebec I will go around the city. It's just not safe to drive on that friggin' freeway. Cheers. I've never been the object of bigotry in Quebec & we go quite often - still have friends & relatives there. I haven't had any problems really. Dis, the bigotry I was referring to was the anonymous anti - French crap I see posted on the internet whenever a news site publises a story. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 12, 2012 13:46:15 GMT -5
I've never been the object of bigotry in Quebec & we go quite often - still have friends & relatives there. I haven't had any problems really. Right on. Every province has their fair share of bigots. We've got them here in Ontario too. Doc knows this already, but the bigotry I experienced was in the 70's. I was exposed to it in the mid-90's as well but the attitude with everyone seems different nowadays. There's a lot more tolerance (in most places) nowadays that there was in yesteryear. Have a good one, man. Cheers. |
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Post by Skilly on Nov 12, 2012 17:27:07 GMT -5
What is the worst-case/best-case scenario in your opinion? Worst case, the whole thing turns into a political show, a few scapegoats get sacrificed, then pressure diminish, the whole thing become "yesterday's news" and it's back to business as usual after a couple of months. Best case, they keep on digging, find the roots, remove it, and come up with clear cut anti-corruption laws and permanent independant monitoring squad. My question at how this was perceived outside of Quebec was not meant as an another kick at the old Quebec/ROC rivalry, but I was really wondering if other provinces looking in from the outside had the sentiment that if it's in Quebec it can be anywhere... I'm asking because I know someone who worked on a major public infrastructure project in the West and he had quite many hair rising stories... Oh it's pretty much everywhere Doc We have politicians here in the past with reputations of shady dealings. And we have contractors here, who seem to be able to get permission to do anything, no matter what our skilled staff recommend. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 15, 2012 20:10:41 GMT -5
Worst case, the whole thing turns into a political show, a few scapegoats get sacrificed, then pressure diminish, the whole thing become "yesterday's news" and it's back to business as usual after a couple of months. Best case, they keep on digging, find the roots, remove it, and come up with clear cut anti-corruption laws and permanent independant monitoring squad. My question at how this was perceived outside of Quebec was not meant as an another kick at the old Quebec/ROC rivalry, but I was really wondering if other provinces looking in from the outside had the sentiment that if it's in Quebec it can be anywhere... I'm asking because I know someone who worked on a major public infrastructure project in the West and he had quite many hair rising stories... Oh it's pretty much everywhere Doc We have politicians here in the past with reputations of shady dealings. And we have contractors here, who seem to be able to get permission to do anything, no matter what our skilled staff recommend. Are we talking about money and who gets it, Skilly? Cheers. |
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Post by Skilly on Nov 16, 2012 10:08:34 GMT -5
Oh it's pretty much everywhere Doc We have politicians here in the past with reputations of shady dealings. And we have contractors here, who seem to be able to get permission to do anything, no matter what our skilled staff recommend. Are we talking about money and who gets it, Skilly? Cheers. I'm not sure what you mean Dis. One example would be Joey Smallwood. He made the Churchill deal all the while having interests in companies that were given the work. Money? Im not sure if that happens nowadays, but I've first hand knowledge of contractors allowed to do whatever they want, dispite our specifications ...while others are forced to follow the spec to the letter. Sometimes, it makes you think. In government though, you always wonder about political contributions, and how they affect decisions. Right now, there is a prominent business man in some hot water over sending a politician money for his campaign. The problem? He sent out numerous cheques with some of his employees names so he could send more than allowed under Elections Act. Now I ask, what's the difference in that and paying for a table of 10, at a $500 a plate fundraising meal? No one seems to complain about that. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 16, 2012 17:32:58 GMT -5
Are we talking about money and who gets it, Skilly? Cheers. I'm not sure what you mean Dis. Right on, Skilly. I understand from what you referred to below. I was posing a question towards your "shady dealings" reference. I remember this becoming an issue for Paul Martin when he became PM. Martin owned a shipping company. Harder to enforce a standard when the Old Boys Club is involved. I'm not saying this is the case here, but people tend to look after their own. More often than not, it's definitely "who you know." Yeah, for sure. I see your point. The fundraising meal is very clean on the surface in comparison to using people as vehicles for cash flow below the surface, so to speak. Mind you we could say that about the fundraiser too. But it looks cleaner. Cheers. |
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