China/Canada - Free Trade?

[Disgruntled70sHab]

Really not sure of the implications on this one if it goes through. I read some of the comments below the story and there's a few who like this scenario and others who don't.

I see some of the problems with NAFTA and I'm not getting a warm-fuzzy about this. Comments?

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Canada and China set stage for free trade talks
Pandas return to Canada for conservation research
The Canadian Press Posted: Feb 9, 2012 4:56 AM ET Last Updated: Feb 9, 2012 6:26 AM ET

Canada and China appear to be setting the stage for free trade talks.

In a joint statement highlighting over 20 developments made over Prime Minister Stephen Harper's two days in Beijing, the two countries say they'll wrap up a joint economic study by May.

The statement says that once that's complete, the two countries will proceed to "exploratory discussions on deepening trade and economic relations."

The prime minister was expected to expand on those themes in a speech later on Thursday.

Harper will not only leave China with a slew of new and renewed deals for Canadian business and researchers — he's bringing back pandas.

The pair of pandas will be go to the Toronto and Calgary zoos for 10 years of collaborative research on conservation.

A formal announcement about the pandas is expected Saturday when Harper visits the city of Chongqing.

The joint statement released Thursday came after Harper met with Chinese President Hu Jintao and Vice Premier Li Keqiang.

The two countries also announced the end of negotiations on an export agreement for Canadian uranium.

And they agreed to increase their dialogue on human rights as well as elevate education to be a strategic priority for both sides.

"This is a tremendously exciting time in Canada-China relations," Harper told Wu Bangguo, chairman of the National People's Congress, during a bilateral meeting Thursday.

www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/02/09/china-canada-trade.html (link)

[Skilly]

This is a message that will be received loud and clear once the dust settles on November 6, 2012 ....

We've done our legwork, now give us our pipeline or the oil goes to China!!!!

[blny]

Feb 9, 2012 8:24:16 GMT -5 Skilly said:

This is a message that will be received loud and clear once the dust settles on November 6, 2012 ....

We've done our legwork, now give us our pipeline or the oil goes to China!!!!

This is definitely a driving factor.

However, with a market of 1 billion people, and years of container ships going back there completely empty, a deal needs to be made. It's one of the fastest growing economic markets in the world. We need to work with them in profitable ventures.

The need to work with them cannot be at the sacrifice of legislation that mandates China improve a myriad of standards though. These include working conditions, pay, blatant copyright infringement, and emissions standards. There's a small group of extremely wealthy people there that are exploiting the workforce and the environment. Serious inroads need to be made in these areas.

[franko]

Feb 9, 2012 9:11:37 GMT -5 blny said:

Feb 9, 2012 8:24:16 GMT -5 Skilly said:

This is a message that will be received loud and clear once the dust settles on November 6, 2012 ....

We've done our legwork, now give us our pipeline or the oil goes to China!!!!

with a market of 1 billion people, and years of container ships going back there completely empty, a deal needs to be made. It's one of the fastest growing economic markets in the world. We need to work with them in profitable ventures.

this.

the funny thing is that people will complain that we are shipping "good Canadian manufacturing jobs" to China [we've already done so-- HA?] while continuing to shop at WalMart -- who empties those containers on Canadian shores. they want $30. an hour jobs to produce goods that they can buy for next to nothing and great social benefits [health care, day care] with low-to-no taxes. can't have everything -- unfortunately.

The need to work with them cannot be at the sacrifice of legislation that mandates China improve a myriad of standards though. These include working conditions, pay, blatant copyright infringement, and emissions standards. There's a small group of extremely wealthy people there that are exploiting the workforce and the environment. Serious inroads need to be made in these areas.

this too.

"we'll buy your product -- you raise standards" is an acceptable trade-off. whether or not that comes to pass is another matter though, isn't it.

[blny]

Top Gear UK did a great piece on China in their 2nd episode of Series 18 (aired last weekend). It was focused primarily on the auto industry there, but it's a microcosm. 60 years ago, the only people to have cars were politicians - namely Mao. To everyone else, it wasn't even fathomable. There are small car companies everywhere in China now. Many produce knock-offs of cars made elsewhere. Some produce original product. Some produce product made under license from other makers (engines and chassis' rebodied etc). At present, a new car is sold every 2 seconds in China. TWO SECONDS!

GM recognized the potential 10 years ago. Chinese businessmen wanted big, soft, American cars. They liked Buicks. In order to meet the demand of the Chinese market, GM killed off Oldsmobile.

In the next twenty years, we're going to see Chinese made cars sold over seas. Just like Korea, they are making leaps and bounds. Right now, they're somewhat crude efforts by comparison, but 5 years ago they were making 3 wheel cars. To compete with the inevitable influx of Chinese autos at cheap prices, we're going to have to find things to send them.

One thing is oil. They're lusting after it. With so many cars being sold, they've got to have it. I don't know how much of a dent, if at all, the NA auto industry can make over there, but I think you have to explore it. When the time comes that China exports cars here, we have to be prepared to say 'you're taking cars made in NA back'.

Serious research, investigation, and investment needs to be made in determining what else we have that we can sell them.

[franko]

the problem: do we have anything that they need -- or want -- that they can't make cheaply for themselves? we have resources, that's it. anything that we "create" they will [within a nanosecond or two] replicate more cheaply.

sure we can insist that they take cars back, but will they sell? at what they will cost? not likely. and the cheap cars flooding the market [sold at WalMartAuto] will set the CAW on high alert demanding trade sanctions and/or tariffs, leading to a trade war and . . .

ah . . . pessimism and cynicism . . . ya made my day

[blny]

If legislation against knockoffs can be instituted, the chance for our goods to have a market over there increases.