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Post by jkr on Mar 27, 2012 10:59:35 GMT -5
This team has been in need of a bona fide #1 center for years but refuses to draft them. In 2003 they could have chosen Getzlaf or Richards but took Kostitsyn. A few years later they could have chosen Giroux but opted for Fischer. (I hope the guy that overruled Timmins on that one was fired). They have had their opportunities but chosen to pass. I don't understand it & wouldn't be surprised if they do it again.
Heck - the Bruins won a Cup with great golatending & a stud on D. If they think Grigorenko is the next Viktor Kozlov they will pass & take the defenseman.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Mar 27, 2012 11:07:08 GMT -5
Depends on who you're listening to, I guess. From what one of the TSN panel was saying a few weeks back, Roy has been working very closely with Grigorenko and apparently he's turning into quite the two-way player. Could be true. Could also be Roy blowing sunshine up the skirt of a player he’s really counting on to take his Remparts far in the playoffs. And to shine his own reputation. I don't know if he'd have to try very hard to shine his reputation in Quebec, let alone Montreal. Focusing solely on Montreal, Patrick has done a lot of good for the city, itself. IIRC, he donated quite a chunk of change to a (children's) hospital a few years back (while he was a Habs Jersey). I'm only assuming at this point, but I'm fairly sure he did other charitable events for the city as well. But, when we're talking egos, yes, Patrick might be the Poster Boy. ... but we're talking Roy  I'm hoping there's a player with that kind of impact that will be available when it's our turn to select. Or the next Lafontaine? I'd really have a hard time accepting it if they traded Eller. Oh man ... the return would have to make an immediate impact, but it would be secondary if Eller were to develop into a 70/75-point guy. And Bournival looks as if he might get lost in the shuffle. I understand he has an outstanding work ethic and he supposedly knows the game well too. But, ... Give Tomas some decent linemates and I think, yes, we can win a Cup with him as number-2 fiddle. I sometimes wonder where the club would be had Brian Gionta been able to stay healthy. Hard to say how effective he would have been with Tomas. I definitely see your point. Well, he'd contribute more than Gomez I reckon. Another Temmu Rutuu? Hard to say, but if he keeps developing I think he'll be a bonafide number-2 centre. I'd hate to lose Plekanec, though. He's all hustle, all the time ... even in practice. He's also been with just the one club for his entire career. This accounts for something with me. As far as a checking centre goes, yeah, I agree with you in that Eller could be an elite checking centre. Like Carbonneau, he would also have an excellent transition game as well. Cheers. |
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Post by jkr on Mar 27, 2012 11:12:20 GMT -5
I wouldn't touch Semin with a ten foot pole. Way too streaky. Way too soft. Way to enigmatic. Agreed. He's two seasons removed from his last 40 goal year. He's better in the playoffs than he gets credit for ( 30 points in 37 games) but I've had enough of in and out players. Kostitsyn is gone & Bourque has taken his place in that regard( for now anyway). Let's not add Semin to the mix. |
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Post by franko on Mar 27, 2012 22:08:35 GMT -5
Button suggests the Habs take Forsberg and that he might be the centre we need?
yup, that sounds about right -- take a LW, play him out of position, then 4 years in trade him because he isn't living up to expectations.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Mar 28, 2012 5:41:00 GMT -5
Button suggests the Habs take Forsberg and that he might be the centre we need? yup, that sounds about right -- take a LW, play him out of position, then 4 years in trade him because he isn't living up to expectations. I found it odd that Button was talking like Forsberg was a centre. Like you point out, he's a LW. He really liked this kid, though; all hustle, physically tough and committed. Cheers. |
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Post by BadCompany on Mar 28, 2012 7:02:57 GMT -5
I wouldn't touch Semin with a ten foot pole. Way too streaky. Way too soft. Way to enigmatic. I agree, but then that's why I would only offer him a one, or max two year deal. And I only offer him huge money because of course he ain't coming here on a one year deal for $4 million bucks. My big concern is that right now we have no 2nd line. There is Tomas Plekanec, and that's it. If we want to be top 4 in the conference, if we want to hit Boston_Habs 230-250 goals, we need a second line. But how to build it? The options are: * Free agency: Aside from Parise and Semin there are no real good options out there. And Parise isn't coming here. So that leaves Semin as our "best" option. Unless we want to bring back AK that is. * Internally: Perhaps, but I'm skeptical. I would want a 30 goal scorer for the second line, or at the very least two 25 goal scorers. Otherwise you're just mediocre. So what are the options? Gionta? Maybe, but he's already 33, coming off a major injury, is small and has a lot of miles on his body and was only on pace for 20 goals last year anyways. Can he bounce back? Perhaps, but production tends to go down the older you get, and bounce back years harder to obtain. Bourque? I think he'll chip in 20-25 goals, but in the "mostly unsatisfying" way. I like him better as a 3rd liner (ditto for Gionta - Bourque, Eller and Gionta would be a great 3rd line, in my opinion). Leblanc? Maybe, but that would be quite the leap, no? Gallagher and/or whoever we draft? See Leblanc. It could happen, but every team in the league is looking at their prospects and saying "it could happen." I'd rather take my chance on a guy like Semin and give Leblanc and company a more gradual progression in their expectation level. Leblanc has 5 NHL goals this year. If he were to score 15 next year that would be great, and two years from now 25 could be within his reach. Semin would buy him time to reach that. * Trade: Always exists, but you gotta give to get. We're the 3rd worst team in the NHL right now. Do we really want to be giving up the few assets that we have? Without a second line more pressure is put on the first line, and your 3rd line becomes a waste land as you bounce guys up and down, trying to find some combination that works. Throw in a couple of injuries (which will happen) and we're looking at Nathan Mackinnon next year, in my opinion. |
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Post by Boston_Habs on Mar 28, 2012 8:56:07 GMT -5
My big concern is that right now we have no 2nd line. There is Tomas Plekanec, and that's it. I would agree. I see secondary scoring as the major issue going into next year. We're seeing it right now. We have only one line that can score with any consistency. In terms of NHL talent, we lost Cammalleri and Kostitsyn and got back Rene Bourque. So that's about 20 goals that you need to make up just to get even. As frustrating as Cammy and AKost were, both guys were good scorers and capable of getting on the kinds of hot streaks that can carry a team. Bourque has pretty much been a disaster so far, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Plekanec/Gionta/Bourque. Is that a 2nd line that can produce? I'm not sure. I agree with you about Gionta - lots of miles on that little body. If we actually win the lottery, we would take Yakupov and he would probably be playing in MTL next year as a scoring winger. But failing that, I don't see the internal answers unless everyone hits their ceilings (i.e. 25 goals each from Gionta and Bourque, 20 from Plekanec and Eller) and that's assuming the DD/Cole/Max line produces as expected. A surprise would be nice. Eller has now moved into the expectations camp (minimum 20 goals, IMO), but we need to find offense from an unexpected source - Leblanc, Gallagher, Kristo, or a trade or UFA signing. Otherwise, we will be offensively challenged again next year and as a result we won't be in the hunt. |
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Post by clear observer on Mar 28, 2012 10:25:38 GMT -5
When do they actually execute the lottery?
edit: The 2012 NHL Draft Lottery Drawing will be held Tuesday April 10th at 8:00 EST. It will be aired on TV on TSN in Canada.
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Post by Boston_Habs on Mar 28, 2012 15:02:35 GMT -5
This was posted last week on the draft page at TSN..... take it FWIW.
Mikhail Grigorenko: There had been whispers over the past month that all may not be wonderful when it comes to the scouting world's perception of Grigorenko's competitiveness, but the whispers have grown into full-blown skepticism in some circles. "He could fall right off the map," said one scout who asserted that his club won't be considering him in the first round. "He doesn't want to compete. If he's there at 25 and we are picking, we go by him."
His concerns were echoed by another eastern conference scout who insisted his team will not select the talented Russian no matter where they end up in the standings. "He's a dog. Take a look at what games Grigorenko gets his points. He gets a handful the other night against PEI. none at Moncton, and one assist (in the nationally televised game) in Saint John. A couple of weeks ago in Rimouski he's minus 6. He scares the (crap) out of me." While there's no denying his skill level, and his 73 points in 39 games as a QMJHL rookie are a testament to his offensive abilities, there will be a lot of teams watching him closely in the playoffs to see whether he has the competitive streak scouts like to see in their top five prospects. As of right now a number of teams have several players ranked ahead of him, and that trend will continue if he does not learn to compete at a higher level.
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Post by GNick99 on Mar 29, 2012 16:40:44 GMT -5
This team has been in need of a bona fide #1 center for years but refuses to draft them. In 2003 they could have chosen Getzlaf or Richards but took Kostitsyn. A few years later they could have chosen Giroux but opted for Fischer. (I hope the guy that overruled Timmins on that one was fired). They have had their opportunities but chosen to pass. I don't understand it & wouldn't be surprised if they do it again. Heck - the Bruins won a Cup with great golatending & a stud on D. If they think Grigorenko is the next Viktor Kozlov they will pass & take the defenseman. If #1 center is available I hope we select him. We haven't had #1 center in 15 years and big hole in team without one. Habs have tried very hard over years to sign top center or trade for in likes of Sundin, Lecavalier or Briere to name a few. But these caliber of player very difficult to acquire, teams seldom move them. I like Galenychuk as scouts say he would challenge Yakupov if not hurt this season. They compare him to Chicago's Hossa but center instead of winger. This is very hard qualities to acquire I would take him if available. However, I admit never seeing him play myself. |
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Post by seventeen on Mar 29, 2012 20:37:42 GMT -5
Without a second line more pressure is put on the first line, and your 3rd line becomes a waste land as you bounce guys up and down, trying to find some combination that works. Throw in a couple of injuries (which will happen) and we're looking at Nathan Mackinnon next year, in my opinion. Hmmmm.. not a bad idea. I'd do it. Only one more bad year to set us up for a string of Stanley Cups. Pick me. |
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Post by seventeen on Mar 29, 2012 20:47:57 GMT -5
If #1 center is available I hope we select him. We haven't had #1 center in 15 years and big hole in team without one. Habs have tried very hard over years to sign top center or trade for in likes of Sundin, Lecavalier or Briere to name a few. But these caliber of player very difficult to acquire, teams seldom move them. I like Galenychuk as scouts say he would challenge Yakupov if not hurt this season. They compare him to Chicago's Hossa but center instead of winger. This is very hard qualities to acquire I would take him if available. However, I admit never seeing him play myself. He's back for the playoffs. Sarnia and Saginaw are tied 2 games each. Galchenyuk has 2 goals, 2 assists, but is -6. Again, you'd have to see him to see if those minuses are his doing or other teammates. Ilike the idea, though. A guy who's fallen out of the top 3 because of an injury, but seems to have recovered from it. (Has he?). Question marks galore. |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Apr 3, 2012 8:33:34 GMT -5
Without a second line more pressure is put on the first line, and your 3rd line becomes a waste land as you bounce guys up and down, trying to find some combination that works. Throw in a couple of injuries (which will happen) and we're looking at Nathan Mackinnon next year, in my opinion. Hmmmm.. not a bad idea. I'd do it. Only one more bad year to set us up for a string of Stanley Cups. Pick me. It's our turn at the trough. Nathan Mackinnon would be/will be great. He would look good in the bleu blanc rouge. I still have a problem with rewarding incompetance. Too much like a Bettman/Obama policy to bring down the good and reward the failures. We can't expect to suddenly have our team climb from last to first. Didn't happen for the islanders, Oilers or Capitals. They spent a few years collecting top picks. Encouraging teams to fail badly to get handouts is wrong. Hope the habs lose more than the Oilers. |
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Post by The Habitual Fan on Apr 3, 2012 11:10:58 GMT -5
It looks like the habs will be probably picking no worse than 4th so should land a pretty good player but I would caution all those that think that wouldbe the saviour for next year. Sure it might be possible to stick with the team next year, especially at forward but I doubt very much you would see an 80 point player coming out of the draft. Guys like Stamkos and Tavares are great skilled players but still took a year or two before starting to be a team leader. I think you will likely see a player that gets 2nd-3rd line minutes for most of next season and will need to be protected from having too much pressre put on him, especially in Montreal.
The team can be a playoff team next year but the key will be adding quality depth and secondary scoring but not from an 18 year old.
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Post by Lord Bebop on Apr 3, 2012 20:47:27 GMT -5
It looks like the habs will be probably picking no worse than 4th so should land a pretty good player but I would caution all those that think that wouldbe the saviour for next year. Sure it might be possible to stick with the team next year, especially at forward but I doubt very much you would see an 80 point player coming out of the draft. Guys like Stamkos and Tavares are great skilled players but still took a year or two before starting to be a team leader. I think you will likely see a player that gets 2nd-3rd line minutes for most of next season and will need to be protected from having too much pressre put on him, especially in Montreal. The team can be a playoff team next year but the key will be adding quality depth and secondary scoring but not from an 18 year old. Well said..... i wouldn't mind keeping this 18 year old in junior for another season, plus him getting a trip to WJHC. Finally we get that high pick. It's a painful season but if all goes well, we get that big time superstar we haven't had since Guy Lafleur. |
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Apr 6, 2012 10:05:19 GMT -5
With the third pick (fourth at worst), it will now likely be down to one of Grigorenko, Forsberg, Murray and Galchenyuk. That is the nicest list that Timmins and company have had to work with in ages. Best list in his term with us, anyway.
We will also be picking 33rd, around 55th (Nashville 2nd rounder) and again 63rd. When you also look at the first rounder and three seconds next year, these are two critical drafts from which to restock the farm. The new GM team will need to be more fluent with patient player development than the gang that Molson just ousted. Building a much stronger pipeline of prospects to help establish a good core for the next decade will take two huge steps forward this June and next.
Bring it on.
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Post by seventeen on Apr 6, 2012 10:58:13 GMT -5
More and more, as I consider this draft class and wonder if there's even a Jonathan Huburdeau in the bunch, I wonder if we shouldn't trade down. My main goal would be to get the top pick of a team that's going to choke next year. Toronto comes to mind, but it's not easy to guess at which team is going to be a bottom 5 feeder next year. Columbus probably, and maybe Calgary, but it's murky as so many bottom teams this year either had some injury problems or plain bad luck. Edmonton could have a young dman or two move up and Ryan Whitney for the full year. Goaltending is still a question mark for them. The Islanders are a team on the rise (again goaltending is the uncertainty). Will Anaheim have as bad a year again? Hiller is decent, but defense is questionable. Minny, Carolina and Tampa are the final three I'd consider. All have one very good or great forward, but lack a lot of depth. The great unknown is injuries. One key injury can take down most teams. Goaltending plays a huge role too.
My favourite choice is Toronto. Poor goaltending, weak defense, iffy management...and Burkie is desperate to improve the team quickly.
Columbus would be great, but they don't have a lower pick than ours to give up. I'd still like to draft around 10-16 this year and pick up Derek Pouliot.
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Post by Tankdriver on Apr 6, 2012 11:18:43 GMT -5
I am starting to lean more and more towards picking Galchenyuk but the problem is I think we can't take him with the 3rd pick. He is more likely a 5-7 pcik but if we trade down, we lose the risk of someone else going after him. I thik this is going to be a tricky draft since Edmonton can go either way right now.
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Post by BadCompany on Apr 6, 2012 12:08:07 GMT -5
We're winning the lottery and taking Yakupov.
Book it.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Apr 6, 2012 12:55:15 GMT -5
With the third pick (fourth at worst), it will now likely be down to one of Grigorenko, Forsberg, Murray and Galchenyuk. That is the nicest list that Timmins and company have had to work with in ages. Best list in his term with us, anyway. Bring it on. Timmins won't get to pick from that list. He will get the leftover after the GM's on worse teams pick. |
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Post by blny on Apr 6, 2012 16:30:23 GMT -5
We're winning the lottery and taking Yakupov. Book it. Hypothetical: We win the lottery. Then, we hire Roy as coach. Does he influence mgt toward Grigorenko? Would you trade down to #2, get extra assets and pick him? |
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Apr 6, 2012 19:00:35 GMT -5
We're winning the lottery and taking Yakupov. Book it. Hypothetical: We win the lottery. Then, we hire Roy as coach. Does he influence mgt toward Grigorenko? Would you trade down to #2, get extra assets and pick him? Yakupov. |
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Post by GNick99 on Apr 6, 2012 20:29:59 GMT -5
We're winning the lottery and taking Yakupov. Book it. Hypothetical: We win the lottery. Then, we hire Roy as coach. Does he influence mgt toward Grigorenko? Would you trade down to #2, get extra assets and pick him? Kind of really far fetched but possible. I know Timmins doesn't favour Grigorenko, he has concerns about parts of his game. But he also has been scouting him heavily since just before playoffs started if he had no interest he would not waste his time. So, he has to be considering hm. This series with the Mooseheads no doubt Timmins will be front and center. Grigorenko vs. Mackinnon. I strong playoff and Roy coming here will do wonders for Grigorenko in Montreal next year. |
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Post by blny on Apr 6, 2012 20:52:34 GMT -5
I'll be at the Moose game Tuesday night. While hoping for a Moose win, I'll be watching Grig.
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Post by seventeen on Apr 6, 2012 22:14:53 GMT -5
I'll be at the Moose game Tuesday night. While hoping for a Moose win, I'll be watching Grig. Looking forward to your report. As usual, it's just one game, but better one game than none at all. |
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Post by BadCompany on Apr 7, 2012 7:40:08 GMT -5
We're winning the lottery and taking Yakupov. Book it. Hypothetical: We win the lottery. Then, we hire Roy as coach. Does he influence mgt toward Grigorenko? Would you trade down to #2, get extra assets and pick him? Tough call. I wouldn't, but then that's just me. I guess it would all depend on how much you trust Timmins, and what he says about both Yakupov and Grigorenko. And what the offer to drop down is, of course. If you still want to stay in the Grigorenko sweepstakes then I don't think you can drop down more than 1-2 spots, and I don't see too many teams willing to give up all that much to move up 1-2 spots. Would Grigorenko + a 3rd round pick be worth losing Yakupov? Back to you, Trevor. If Timmins thinks it really is 1a and 1b, and that there isn't much to differentiate between the two, then sure, why not? But all indications are that most people, Timmins in particular, don't see it that way, and that Yakupov is the clear cut best player. Imagine trading away the chance to select Steven Stamkos to get Nikita Filatov or Colin Wilson, the next two forwards drafted in 2008? |
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Post by GNick99 on Apr 7, 2012 11:23:51 GMT -5
I'll be at the Moose game Tuesday night. While hoping for a Moose win, I'll be watching Grig. Timmins was at last night's game... The Remparts won, fans say Grigorenko is a notch if not two under MacKinnon. Considering MacKinnon is a year younger I get the impression Grigorenko not going to be elite #1 center. But I leave this pick up to Timmins, whomever he chooses is fine with me as he seen them play much more than me. |
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Post by Boston_Habs on Apr 9, 2012 12:36:37 GMT -5
I'll be at the Moose game Tuesday night. While hoping for a Moose win, I'll be watching Grig. Timmins was at last night's game... The Remparts won, fans say Grigorenko is a notch if not two under MacKinnon. Considering MacKinnon is a year younger I get the impression Grigorenko not going to be elite #1 center. But I leave this pick up to Timmins, whomever he chooses is fine with me as he seen them play much more than me. At some point you need to trust the hockey people, and Timmins has done an overall decent job as the head amateur scout. We have known for a while that the Habs will be in the top 5, so that's plenty of time to scout the heck out of the best players on the board. I have to believe that when our pick comes the organization will feel good about the selection and feel they are getting the best guy at that spot. I have no problems with them passing on Grigorenko if they really and truly believe he's a dog. |
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Post by jkr on Apr 9, 2012 13:30:23 GMT -5
Hypothetical: We win the lottery. Then, we hire Roy as coach. Does he influence mgt toward Grigorenko? Would you trade down to #2, get extra assets and pick him? Kind of really far fetched but possible. I know Timmins doesn't favour Grigorenko, he has concerns about parts of his game. But he also has been scouting him heavily since just before playoffs started if he had no interest he would not waste his time. So, he has to be considering hm. This series with the Mooseheads no doubt Timmins will be front and center. Grigorenko vs. Mackinnon. I strong playoff and Roy coming here will do wonders for Grigorenko in Montreal next year. How do you know this? |
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Post by jkr on Apr 9, 2012 13:34:53 GMT -5
The other thing the bothers me is that this team has been in need of a #1 centre for years. They have been there for the taking in the past (Getzlaf, Richards, Giroux) & they have opted to go elsewhere with their picks. If they pass on Grigorenko where is that #1 centre coming from?
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