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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 23, 2012 14:44:54 GMT -5
... for his anti-Albertan comments ... He's young and inexperienced and his political career just got off on the wrong foot.
Cheers.
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Post by franko on Nov 23, 2012 15:14:47 GMT -5
great timing for the Conservatives who seem to be in a dog-fight for the Calgary Centre seat.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 24, 2012 11:54:35 GMT -5
The comment was made two years ago, Franko, but young Trudeau is learning a valuable lesson, though. It doesn't matter what you say or when you say it, if it's juicy it will be brought up again. I can see this haunting him if he wins the Grit leadership bid. The Tories will be all over that in the next election and I have little doubt this comment will kick off the next Tory smear campaign.
I see Marc Garneau is throwing his hat into the ring now. Don't know what he'd have to offer the party, though.
Still no leaders in the Liberal ranks. Harper must feel pretty secure right now.
Cheers.
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Post by franko on Nov 24, 2012 14:05:00 GMT -5
yup, realize that, what I meant was great timing to dig it out.
I think the Conservatives want young Mr. T to win the leadership -- he has the star power to garner votes away from the NDP -- the others don't. the next federal election will see a split left-centre vote which means the Conservatives will hold power one more time [even though polls suggest that everyone in Canada abhors Harper] . . . Harper will go out with a year and a half left in the mandate handing over the reins to a party without leadership and riding out into a golden retirement
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 24, 2012 20:46:40 GMT -5
yup, realize that, what I meant was great timing to dig it out. I think the Conservatives want young Mr. T to win the leadership -- he has the star power to garner votes away from the NDP -- the others don't. the next federal election will see a split left-centre vote which means the Conservatives will hold power one more time [even though polls suggest that everyone in Canada abhors Harper] . . . Harper will go out with a year and a half left in the mandate handing over the reins to a party without leadership and riding out into a golden retirement Right on. The Liberals simply aren't helping themselves at all. The party leadership has been weak for years now and it remains weak today. There isn't one single person in that party that I can point to as a future PM. I honestly believe young Trudeau feels he's on a crusade. The one to save the party and restore it (and his family name) to its former glory. However, he's still learning and those comments suggested to me that he is a crusader. And you're right. I think Harper would love to take on young Trudeau, the sooner the better. But, Trudeau has made it easy for him. Cheers. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2012 11:20:47 GMT -5
I'm very interested in this Calgary Center byelection. It's been a Conservative stronghold for decades, and yet there's a big chance of Canada's second Green MOP to be elected.
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Post by franko on Nov 25, 2012 13:18:02 GMT -5
Matt, a "big chance" is a bit of a stretch, no? it would be something if it happened -- especially in Alberta and would propel the party from "no ways" to "maybes" . . . but the Green is 20 points behind the Conservatives [then again, who believes polls any more anyway?].
I think it's nail-biting time for Harper though -- and if they "merely win" [say by less than a 10% margin] the angst will grow.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2012 15:34:03 GMT -5
I'm crossing my fingers, though it is likely that the Conservatives will barely get re-election, as you are hinting at, Franko. It's not going to be the 57.68% majority like it was before. Likely the vote will be split amongst Liberals and Greens. The concern for Conservatives is voter turnout. The more people vote, the worse it is for Conservatives.
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Post by franko on Nov 25, 2012 16:33:05 GMT -5
the more JT speaks the worse fore the Liberals. the more any Conservative speaks the worse it is for them.
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Post by Cranky on Nov 27, 2012 2:51:20 GMT -5
[even though polls suggest that everyone in Canada abhors Harper] Really? Which poll is that? OTTAWA, ON (NEWS1130) - There is good news for Prime Minister Stephen Harper as he heads back to the House of Commons.
A new Nanos poll for The Globe and Mail shows most Canadians polled think Harper's doing a good job.
He received a combined mark of 93 per cent when it comes to trustworthiness, competence and vision for Canada. That's up from the 73 per cent mark he got in July.
NDP leader Thomas Mulcair scored 48 per cent, while interim Liberal leader Bob Rae got 83 per cent.
The survey also found the Conservatives have 32 per cent support among decided voters, with the NDP at 30 per cent and the Liberals well back at 24 per cent.Although I hear that Harper is not popular with the CBC, Toronto Pravda Star and North Koreans. |
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Post by Cranky on Nov 27, 2012 2:58:14 GMT -5
I'm crossing my fingers, though it is likely that the Conservatives will barely get re-election...... Keep crossing them. Conservatives won Durham and Calgary Center. |
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Post by Cranky on Nov 27, 2012 3:15:40 GMT -5
As for my favorite Liberal....with the giant intellect of a squirrel....or is that the intellect of a giant squirrel? Harper and Mulcaire are having nightmares over debating Trudeau and his vast, deep, well developed intellect. Obviously Trudeau developed his remarkable mind from the years of debating high schoolers and fawning media. Yup......  |
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Post by franko on Nov 27, 2012 6:54:35 GMT -5
[even though polls suggest that everyone in Canada abhors Harper] Really? Which poll is that? He received a combined mark of 93 per cent when it comes to trustworthiness, competence and vision for Canada. That's up from the 73 per cent mark he got in July. The survey also found the Conservatives have 32 per cent support among decided voters, [/i][/color] [/quote] OK, "everyone" may have been hyperbolic. And I live in Ottawa, where things may be a bit skewed. vision for Canada? no doubt. trustworthiness? surprised that is high. support? I thought it a bit higher. but just because people think he is the best of a bad lot doesn't man they like him! |
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Post by franko on Nov 27, 2012 6:58:03 GMT -5
Harper and Mulcaire are having nightmares over debating Trudeau and his vast, deep, well developed intellect. Obviously Trudeau developed his remarkable mind from the years of debating high schoolers and fawning media. The Liberals have officially [f they hadn't before] entered into post-Mulroney political hinterland. It will be interesting after the next election to see if the Conservatives re-enter it, as they aren't really grooming anyone to take Harper's place -- those who we think might be ready now will have moved along by then. By then young Mr. T may have matured enough to win votes somewhere. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 27, 2012 10:03:43 GMT -5
Harper and Mulcaire are having nightmares over debating Trudeau and his vast, deep, well developed intellect. Obviously Trudeau developed his remarkable mind from the years of debating high schoolers and fawning media. The Liberals have officially [f they hadn't before] entered into post-Mulroney political hinterland. It will be interesting after the next election to see if the Conservatives re-enter it, as they aren't really grooming anyone to take Harper's place -- those who we think might be ready now will have moved along by then. By then young Mr. T may have matured enough to win votes somewhere. I think Peter MacKay might have earned consideration as the top contender to Mr Harper, Franko. He's held both the foreign affairs and national defence (current) portfolios. What concerns me is how short of memory many voters are; especially in Ontario. I suspect Trudeau will garner a good number votes just on his family name. But, it will take time to rebuild the party. His predecessors, Chretien and Martin, were successful in destroying any leadership the Liberals had in the party, itself. Heck, I think we're still seeing the residuals of that internal feud today; a leaderless party and a Tory majority (that doesn't look like it's going to change anytime soon). Cheers. |
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Post by franko on Nov 27, 2012 10:28:16 GMT -5
The Liberals have officially [f they hadn't before] entered into post-Mulroney political hinterland. It will be interesting after the next election to see if the Conservatives re-enter it, as they aren't really grooming anyone to take Harper's place -- those who we think might be ready now will have moved along by then. By then young Mr. T may have matured enough to win votes somewhere. I think Peter MacKay might have earned consideration as the top contender to Mr Harper, Franko. He's held both the foreign affairs and national defence (current) portfolios. What concerns me is how short of memory many voters are; especially in Ontario. I suspect Trudeau will garner a good number votes just on his family name. But, it will take time to rebuild the party. His predecessors, Chretien and Martin, were successful in destroying any leadership the Liberals had in the party, itself. Heck, I think we're still seeing the residuals of that internal feud today; a leaderless party and a Tory majority (that doesn't look like it's going to change anytime soon). Cheers. Dis, I think that MacKay is "yesterday's man". I think he is hanging in there hoping that Harper will retire soon so that he can step in . . . I just don't know that it will happen soon enough. Clement, Baird . . . they'll all be too old and too connected to the party four or five years from now. on the positive side for MacKay, he seems just as teflon as Harper! not that Harper is doing anything wrong holding on to power [isn't that what politics is all about?] but it appears he is following the model of his predecessors in the Liberal party . . . not allowing leadership to come to the fore. of course, that too is the way of politics -- if some cream is allowed to rise to the top then the knives start to come out. I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment of the Liberal situation [you must be right ;D ] . . . we'll see what happens. as to the future leadership of the Conservative Party . . . from left right field I suggest . . . Brian Pallister making a return to federal politics when the time comes. |
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Post by Cranky on Nov 27, 2012 13:32:51 GMT -5
OK, "everyone" may have been hyperbolic. And I live in Ottawa, where things may be a bit skewed. vision for Canada? no doubt. trustworthiness? surprised that is high. support? I thought it a bit higher. but just because people think he is the best of a bad lot doesn't man they like him! Maybe Harper should create and play the victim card. After all, that's what the goes over well with the reality show and Kardashian foaming masses. Or try the "cool" card by snowboarding down a cliff. Me, I'll settle for the guy who runs the country boringly and responsibly. |
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Post by Cranky on Nov 27, 2012 13:41:10 GMT -5
Harper and Mulcaire are having nightmares over debating Trudeau and his vast, deep, well developed intellect. Obviously Trudeau developed his remarkable mind from the years of debating high schoolers and fawning media. The Liberals have officially [f they hadn't before] entered into post-Mulroney political hinterland. It will be interesting after the next election to see if the Conservatives re-enter it, as they aren't really grooming anyone to take Harper's place -- those who we think might be ready now will have moved along by then. By then young Mr. T may have matured enough to win votes somewhere. The Liberals entered it with Chretien and went downhill from there. Chretien was an old school, political power and entitled weasel. There is no hiding Trudeau reveling in and taking that contemptuous path, although he doesn't have Chretiens savvy. Nobody but Quebec prime ministers are any good and most certainly, Liberals are the natural governing party of Canada. 11% of Canadians agree........ |
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Post by Cranky on Nov 27, 2012 13:45:42 GMT -5
I think Peter MacKay might have earned consideration as the top contender to Mr Harper, Franko. He's held both the foreign affairs and national defence (current) portfolios. What concerns me is how short of memory many voters are; especially in Ontario. I suspect Trudeau will garner a good number votes just on his family name. But, it will take time to rebuild the party. His predecessors, Chretien and Martin, were successful in destroying any leadership the Liberals had in the party, itself. Heck, I think we're still seeing the residuals of that internal feud today; a leaderless party and a Tory majority (that doesn't look like it's going to change anytime soon). Cheers. Dis, I think that MacKay is "yesterday's man". I think he is hanging in there hoping that Harper will retire soon so that he can step in . . . I just don't know that it will happen soon enough. Clement, Baird . . . they'll all be too old and too connected to the party four or five years from now. on the positive side for MacKay, he seems just as teflon as Harper! not that Harper is doing anything wrong holding on to power [isn't that what politics is all about?] but it appears he is following the model of his predecessors in the Liberal party . . . not allowing leadership to come to the fore. of course, that too is the way of politics -- if some cream is allowed to rise to the top then the knives start to come out. I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment of the Liberal situation [you must be right ;D ] . . . we'll see what happens. as to the future leadership of the Conservative Party . . . from left right field I suggest . . . Brian Pallister making a return to federal politics when the time comes. I preffer Brad Wall. But then again, he's just another boring, unsexy, responsible Conservative. |
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Post by franko on Nov 27, 2012 13:58:39 GMT -5
Wall would be good too. it all depends if the Conservatives have run themselves out of office yet. by the time Harper retires people may just be glad to see him go and be willing to accept someone with good policy [if there is someone with some] rather than a pretty face.
Trudeau's gaffes may be all out by then and he may be able to blame youthful folly and say "I'm all grown up", just like Harper did. I think the Liberals are going to go "all in" on Justin and give him the opportunity to win after he loses the next election.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Nov 27, 2012 15:42:18 GMT -5
Is he that inexperienced?
Quite simply, IMO, the Liberals won't ever touch the power again without a somewhat strong vote support from Quebec and they won't get that with the kind of politicians that Dion, Ignatieff or Rae are...
Trudeau definitely banks on his "Eastern look and feel". More open minded, more progressive, freely and openly talks about Sovereignty and how Harper's vision of Canada isn't necessarily "coast-to-coast"... to say the least.
Trudeau saying "Albertans control our community and socio-democratic agenda" isn't any worse than Dion and Rae saying "...we expect Harper to give the hard line to Quebec.."....
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Post by franko on Nov 27, 2012 15:47:47 GMT -5
I keep hearing that Trudeau is inexperienced . . . same knock against Harper to begin with . . . he managed to make it through.
the only way the Liberals will make it back to power is to have a leader stay around for a while. the party needs to realize that it will not win in 2015 but to build support for the election following with whoever the next leader is.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Nov 27, 2012 16:38:24 GMT -5
2015 should be interesting...
Liberals, with Trudeau, easily take the Quebec votes, so that's potentially about 60 seats going to them. Harper just easily keeps AB, SK, MN, that's roughly 50 seats...
Maritimes probably split the vote among them or so...
So we're down to the battle of BC and Ontario...
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Post by CentreHice on Nov 27, 2012 17:02:05 GMT -5
To those who argue that Trudeau is too young.....
--When Harper won his first federal seat for the Reform Party back in 1993, he was 34 years old.
--When Trudeau won his first federal seat for the Liberals in 2007, he was 35.
--When Harper became leader of the Canadian Alliance in 2002, he was still 42.
--If Trudeau becomes leader of the Liberals, he will be 41.
Harper got to cut his teeth and develop in the relative national obscurity of third and fourth party membership.
Trudeau is thrust into the national spotlight right off the bat, and has his father's legacy to deal with. And that pedigree will no doubt be capitalized on by the Liberals, as it would've been by ANY party to which he claimed allegiance. The parties know the value of marketing. Look no further than the Alliance assuming the Conservative brand in 2003...and Harper becoming leader in 2004.
We have no idea what kind of a leader Trudeau will make. I think it's very shallow thinking to presume he'll be terrible OR great just because he's a Liberal and/or PET's son.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 27, 2012 17:15:34 GMT -5
2015 should be interesting... Liberals, with Trudeau, easily take the Quebec votes, so that's potentially about 60 seats going to them. Harper just easily keeps AB, SK, MN, that's roughly 50 seats... Maritimes probably split the vote among them or so... So we're down to the battle of BC and Ontario... Doc, I think this image might be from 2003 so I'm thinking it's changed a tad since.  I think you're right about the approximation of vote distribution. The only thing I might be able to add is that the voters of Ontario have very short memories. Trudeau could very well be PM one day. Cheers. |
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Post by Cranky on Nov 27, 2012 17:59:36 GMT -5
Wall would be good too. it all depends if the Conservatives have run themselves out of office yet. by the time Harper retires people may just be glad to see him go and be willing to accept someone with good policy [if there is someone with some] rather than a pretty face. Trudeau's gaffes may be all out by then and he may be able to blame youthful folly and say "I'm all grown up", just like Harper did. I think the Liberals are going to go "all in" on Justin and give him the opportunity to win after he loses the next election. When was Harper not "all grown up"? He was born with a frown......and a ledger in his hand. |
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Post by Cranky on Nov 27, 2012 18:10:31 GMT -5
We have no idea what kind of a leader Trudeau will make. I think it's very shallow thinking to presume he'll be crap just because he's a Liberal. Nobody presumed he was shallow because he is a Liberal. He's accomplishing that all by himself. Igniatiff, Rae, etc, were very serious man that even though I disliked their political stands, I would have no problem with representing Canada. Trudeau has shown nothing of substance other then comic book politics....and rockstar appeal. As for his age. Are we kidding here? The man is 40 years old. His balls dropped a long time ago..... |
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Post by franko on Nov 27, 2012 18:53:49 GMT -5
Trudeau's gaffes may be all out by then and he may be able to blame youthful folly and say "I'm all grown up", just like Harper did. I think the Liberals are going to go "all in" on Justin and give him the opportunity to win after he loses the next election. When was Harper not "all grown up"? He was born with a frown......and a ledger in his hand. can you say "Alberta firewall" |
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Post by franko on Nov 27, 2012 18:54:42 GMT -5
We have no idea what kind of a leader Trudeau will make. I think it's very shallow thinking to presume he'll be crap just because he's a Liberal. Nobody presumed he was shallow because he is a Liberal. He's accomplishing that all by himself. Igniatiff, Rae, etc, were very serious man that even though I disliked their political stands, I would have no problem with representing Canada. Trudeau has shown nothing of substance other then comic book politics....and rockstar appeal. As for his age. Are we kidding here? The man is 40 years old. His balls dropped a long time ago..... he's got 6 more years to learn the ropes . . . and if he doesn't the Liberals will use it on him. |
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Post by Cranky on Nov 27, 2012 19:03:20 GMT -5
2015 should be interesting... Liberals, with Trudeau, easily take the Quebec votes, so that's potentially about 60 seats going to them. Harper just easily keeps AB, SK, MN, that's roughly 50 seats... Maritimes probably split the vote among them or so... So we're down to the battle of BC and Ontario... Quebec 60 seats at best....that's assuming NDP has dropped dead and PQ still gazing at their toes. More like 40 seats. Prairies have 58 of 62 seats locked up and at worst, will split BC and Maritimes. All they need is an Ontario split and they have a majority. Those extra seats are going to make the difference. Quebec still has influence but is no longer the power broker. IF Quebec goes Liberal, IF the Conservatives lose their 73 to 33 seat majority in Ontario, IF they lose their 21 to 14 seat majority in BC, IF they lose the majority of those extra seats.....if.....if....if....if...... |
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