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Post by NWTHabsFan on Oct 25, 2004 16:46:58 GMT -5
Here is a nice profile and article on Bulldogs' rookie, Corey Locke. Corey Locke’s ego does not match that of a pure sniper who piled up 114 goals over the final two seasons of his Ontario Hockey League junior career.
“You’re looking for me?” the 20-year-old forward asked as he stepped out of the Hamilton Bulldogs’ dressing room at the Wachovia Center in Philadelphia on Oct. 22. A genuine look of surprise crossed his face.
But win the OHL’s Red Tilson Award two years in a row as that circuit’s most valuable player, win back-to-back scoring titles and dominate the Canadian Hockey League, and observers take notice.
Full read at below link. www.theahl.com/AHL/News/2004/10/25/684887.html |
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Oct 25, 2004 17:02:42 GMT -5
Some players come to the AHL and receive a rude awakening about the commitment level and hard work needed just to remain in the AHL, let alone landing a spot in the NHL.
Not so for Locke, who is plenty familiar with demands after three seasons with Kilrea.
“[Kilrea] treats you like pros. If you bend the rules, he will come on you, just like this level.”
*
I gotta pull for this kid.
Whether they make it to the NHL or not, the New Régime's draft choices by and large seem have equal parts character and talent.
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Post by blaise on Oct 25, 2004 17:25:28 GMT -5
Another potential competitor for Ribeiro, but Plekanec will get there first.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Oct 26, 2004 1:22:13 GMT -5
Another potential competitor for Ribeiro, but Plekanec will get there first. It doesn't have to be either/or. They can both make it. Koivu 5'10, Ribeiro 6'0 and Locke 5'9 are three small centers, but if they all produce we don't need big guys. For years Montreal iced smaller teams than the Leafs and Bruins did, but Montreal has it's name on the cup not because Cournoyer, Pocket, Flower, Lemaire, Shutt and Rousseau were big, but because they were good! The Rocket and Ferguson weren't big guys either, but they played big! |
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Post by Doc Holliday on Oct 26, 2004 12:21:26 GMT -5
It doesn't have to be either/or. They can both make it. HFLA, Blaise has been campaining against Ribeiro for ages... Everything and anything that happens in hockey and every prospects in the game eventually end up being favorably compared to Ribeiro by Blaise. Funny thing is how Blaise complains that Ribs fans tend to promote Ribs too much... But I have yet to seen anyone even half as obnoxious to promote Ribs as Blaise is to continually bring him down. |
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Post by blaise on Oct 26, 2004 15:41:32 GMT -5
Despite his talent I really dislike Ribeiro's antics, Doc. As for relentless tiresome diatribes that far exceed mine in frequency and word count, I refer you to the gazillion anti-Théodore threads and posts by M. Beaux-Eaux (in case you didn't notice or have chosen to overlook them). He didn't match them with his anti-Kovalev numbers, but only because he had a shorter time span in which to wage his jeremiad. Why didn't you respond to the Demitra this, Demitra that, Demitra blah blah blah?
I have liked Plekanec better than Ribeiro since I first saw him in 2002, when I gave little thought to Ribeiro. He fits my image of what an NHL player should be like. I must admit I was being mischievous about Locke. I'm not sure Locke will become an NHL player but I alrerady prefer his attitude and comportment to Ribeiro's.
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Oct 26, 2004 15:56:27 GMT -5
As for relentless tiresome diatribes that far exceed mine in frequency and word count, I refer you to the gazillion anti-Théodore threads and posts by M. Beaux-Eaux (in case you didn't notice or have chosen to overlook them). Hard to have missed them. A gazillion, eh? That's a mighty big number! You've just increased the number of your diatribes against me by one. My research assistant was on vacation. We'll aim to be more thorough when presenting the case pro or con for my next favourite subject. It's a promise, and I'm a man of my word(s) You forgot Garon, Quintal, Chipchura, Julien, Hainsey, Gainey and Glen Murray. What do I have to do with your dislike of Ribeiro? Shouldn't you be addressing Doc directly, man-to-man? Bringing me into the dialogue is like seeing a kid point his finger at his brother and crying "He did it! He did it!" Doc took umbrage with your dislike of Ribeiro. Address it! I have plenty of umbrages of my own to deal with. Anyway., Locke is definitely displaying the the same unconscious hockey sense that Ribeiro possesses. He and Plekanec might bring back a nice return down the road. |
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Post by blaise on Oct 26, 2004 16:49:43 GMT -5
I did address Doc directly but invoked your name only to show that he was being partial and not to say that he should have censored you (which he couldn't have done anyway). Unless I am mistaken both of us are permitted to voice our opinions of players on HabsRus. We disagree on Théodore (not that I am a particular fan of his), Kovalev, and Ribeiro but not on too many others. I concurred with your views on Julien, Plekanec, Sundstrom, and Quintal, for example. I didn't think badly of Garon, only that IMO he wasn't on a par with Théodore. I'm glad the Habs have Chipchura, who has a bright future ahead of him. I admire Locke's determination and talent and wish he were a little bigger and faster. I'm sure there are other points of agreement. The only other Hab who makes me uncomfortable is Dagenais (and not because he's a copain of Ribeiro).
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Oct 26, 2004 19:14:36 GMT -5
I did address Doc directly but invoked your name only to show that he was being partial and not to say that he should have censored you (which he couldn't have done anyway). Unless I am mistaken both of us are permitted to voice our opinions of players on HabsRus. We disagree on Théodore (not that I am a particular fan of his), Kovalev, and Ribeiro but not on too many others. I concurred with your views on Julien, Plekanec, Sundstrom, and Quintal, for example. I didn't think badly of Garon, only that IMO he wasn't on a par with Théodore. I'm glad the Habs have Chipchura, who has a bright future ahead of him. I admire Locke's determination and talent and wish he were a little bigger and faster. I'm sure there are other points of agreement. The only other Hab who makes me uncomfortable is Dagenais (and not because he's a copain of Ribeiro). If there wasn't disagreement among us, this forum would be boring. I like Rocket Richard! I like the Rocket too! I like the Rocket too! I like the Rocket too! I like the Rocket too!  |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2004 20:05:20 GMT -5
We have so many good players in the minors.
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Post by seventeen on Oct 26, 2004 20:22:14 GMT -5
My pet doghouse character for a long time was Marty Rucinsky. Mr. "arrive at the puck in good humour" man. I recall many posts where BC thought he was ok, and he was much of the time, especially in a Czech National Jersey, where he grew cojones. I just got really ticked with his habit of arriving a split second too late.
I'm also not a fan of Mikey R. I quite enjoy his trickiness, but that next gear just isn't there and I can't help thinking that at some point the piper has to be paid for being that split second too slow. Yes, I know he got more than his share of points last year...but am still not sure just how he got them. Oooops, this prospect thread is turning into bash your favourite Hab. At least Rucinsky's not with us anymore. The Blues can have him.
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Post by blaise on Oct 26, 2004 22:23:04 GMT -5
A gazillion, eh? That's a mighty big number! Well, useful and nonquantifiable. Saves me the trouble of spending hours poring over the archives and actually counting them, since you've made well over 8,000 posts and started perhaps 1,000-2,000 threads.  |
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Post by oldhabsfan on Oct 27, 2004 4:57:08 GMT -5
The Rocket and Ferguson weren't big guys either, but they played big! I remember reading in the early 60's (1961?) that the average NHL player weight at that time was 174 pounds. I surmise that over Maurice Richard's career the average weight might have been a little less The Rocket was not a small player for his time. I'm not sure of his playing weight, but the figure 185 pounds sticks in my mind. Does anyone recall? |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Oct 27, 2004 4:58:40 GMT -5
We all have our favorites and we all have our whipping boys. Sometimes we agree and sometimes we don't.
Like:
Begin, Ribeiro, Ryder, Koivu, Locke, Ward, Bernier, Hudler, Alexeev, Chipchura, Komisarek, Cherry
Dislike:
Rucinsky, Brisebois, Traverse, Czerkawski, Hossa, Kovalev, Petrov, Serge Savard
Feel sorry for:
Houle, Hossa, Audette
Since Gainey arrived there are a lot fewer Hab's that I dislike and more that I like. The team is doing better and if the strike is settled there is more fan interest.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Oct 27, 2004 5:08:46 GMT -5
I remember reading in the early 60's (1961?) that the average NHL player weight at that time was 174 pounds. I surmise that over Maurice Richard's career the average weight might have been a little less The Rocket was not a small player for his time. I'm not sure of his playing weight, but the figure 185 pounds sticks in my mind. Does anyone recall? I remember the beloved Rocket was 5'10 and the hated Gordie Howe was 6'. Jean Beliveau was an absolute giant at 6'3. Ferguson was 5'11 and 185 lbs, but I don't think he's back away from Probert. Tie Domi plays much bigger than he is and holds his own. |
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Oct 27, 2004 8:56:02 GMT -5
I remember reading in the early 60's (1961?) that the average NHL player weight at that time was 174 pounds. I surmise that over Maurice Richard's career the average weight might have been a little less The Rocket was not a small player for his time. I'm not sure of his playing weight, but the figure 185 pounds sticks in my mind. Does anyone recall? 5'10, 180lbs according to www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php3?pid%5B%5D=4550Career production pro-rated over an 82 game season: 46-35-81. Not tea-bags at all. |
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Post by Doc Holliday on Oct 27, 2004 12:07:54 GMT -5
I did address Doc directly but invoked your name only to show that he was being partial and not to say that he should have censored you For the record, I did not censor you, ask you to stop or even address you as a moderator. As a poster of this site and a fan of Ribeiro, I find it annoying to continually see these Ribeiro attacks that tend to take away threads from their core idea. I see this as constant baiting and it eventually gets on my nerve (which is obviously the main idea of your campain). I could either get into never ending pueril debates centered on Ribeiro everytime you bring up his name but that would get on the nerve of everyone, so I rather chose to expose your tactics every now and again to remind posters to avoid your traps as I did with HFLA. The fact that you feel others may have done the same doesn't make it right for you to do so. That's how I see it anyway. As for Corey Locke (or Plekanec), you can never have enough talent in your farm (size or not). They can be used as trade asset in key situation (the Kovalev deal) or replace injured player or represent interesting options if a the temptation to trade a core player becomes to big. Koivu turns 31 next season and depending on how the new CBA take shape, could elect to test out the free agent water (as a great majority of player do) and once there be picked up by any team. If such scenario comes true, Pleks could indeed become our #2 center. |
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Post by blaise on Oct 27, 2004 18:40:34 GMT -5
Relax, Doc, you're not in my gunsight, and I'm not going out of my way to get on your nerves. If my criticisms of Ribeiro bother you, that's what they call collateral damage. And I'm not the only HabsRus poster who isn't thrilled by Ribeiro's antics. There are still others who see Ribeiro as a transitional figure who is keeping the seat lukewarm until someone better comes along. Did you see Gainey signing him to a long-term contract? Finally, if you're so sure I'm wrong, how about telling us why Plekanec (or Locke) can't be as good as or better than Ribeiro? Ribeiro has had only one successful season, and it's taken him until the age of 24 to do it. Is that as impressive as what an 18-year-old Patrice Bergeron achieved in his first crack at the big time? IMO if the Habs had had Bergeron and the Bruins Ribeiro, it wouldn't have taken the Habs as many as 7 games to win the playoff round.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Oct 27, 2004 19:47:41 GMT -5
And I'm not the only HabsRus poster who isn't thrilled by Ribeiro's antics. Ribeiro's antics is the flavor of the day for you to pick on Ribs. Before that it was his size, his skating, his shot, his +/-, whatever... But again my problem is not with Ribeiro's critics, it's with drawing any subject into an occasion to take a shot at Ribeiro. True enough you're not alone not to like him, but your the only one that so actively campains against him. IMO if the Habs had had Bergeron and the Bruins Ribeiro, it wouldn't have taken the Habs as many as 7 games to win the playoff round. IMO if the HABS would have had Bergeron instead of Ribeiro, they wouldn't even had made it to the playoffs last year. Did you see Gainey signing him to a long-term contract? Ribeiro had a break through season last year, but it's just one year, he's still not proven. Gainey is smart enough not to sell the house over one good season (unlike Savard). But why would anyone consider that a knock against Ribeiro? I think this is good management by Gainey that decides to reward a good season with a hefty raise but waits before going long term. Finally, if you're so sure I'm wrong, how about telling us why Plekanec (or Locke) can't be as good as or better than Ribeiro? Ribeiro has had only one successful season Ribeiro showed last year that he can produce in the NHL. But that doesn't tell the whole story nor was it an unseen precedent in Ribeiro's carreer. Ribeiro also has had incredible seasons as a junior. In the AHL, not including this year's number, he maintained a better point per game average as well as a better goal per game average then Pleks and he's usually been one of the best player in training camps. In essence, Ribeiro has been able to become a great contributor at every level he's played. Why don't I buy the Plekanec will replace Ribs theory ? Because nothing, aside from your personnal dislike of Ribeiro sustains it. ...and it's taken him until the age of 24 to do it. ...Heck, some players will never reach 65pts, never mind reaching it at 24. Richard Zednick broke the 20 goals mark for the first time after 6 seasons at the age of 25. Lucky for us, someone had dimissed him at the age of 24 and so now we have a first line, 30 goal scorer, that's only 28. |
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Oct 27, 2004 20:40:58 GMT -5
...Heck, some players will never reach 65pts, never mind reaching it at 24. Richard Zednick broke the 20 goals mark for the first time after 6 seasons at the age of 25. Lucky for us, someone had dimissed him at the age of 24 and so now we have a first line, 30 goal scorer, that's only 28. Current Habs forwards and their highest single season points totals and their current ages: *Koivu 71, 29. *Bonk 70, 28. Bulis 40, 26. Bégin 15, 26. Dagenais 27, 26. Ryder 63, 24. Ribeiro 65, 24. *Sundstrom 52, 29. Zednik 50, 28. *Ward 12, 25. *Hossa 13, 23. *1st round picks. |
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Post by blaise on Oct 27, 2004 20:44:17 GMT -5
Thank you for taking the time, Doc. I appreciate it. Time will tell whether Ribeiro is a better NHL player than Bergeron, although I prefer Bergeron's grit. He would have come in higher in the Calder trophy balloting had he not been a teammate of Andrew Raycroft. As for Plekanec, I believe he will be a better NHL goal scorer than Ribeiro even if he doesn't get as many assists. He wasn't heralded by the fans because he wasn't a local favorite but he's showing why he was an underrated draft pick. Locke's CHL stats are also highly promising, and he has much in common with Ribeiro's at a comparable age. Give him a couple of years and you may see his career track proceed at pace that compares well with Ribeiro's.
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Post by Habit on Oct 27, 2004 21:14:07 GMT -5
Ribeiro has had only one successful season, and it's taken him until the age of 24 to do it. Ribs was rushed into the NHL, where as Pleck's and Locke are looking to be brought along slowly. How many times have we seen our draft picks not living up to their hype when rushed into the big leagues (as saviors), or have a good start and then vanish: 1. Kjell Dahlin 2. Gilbert Dionne 3. Brian Savage (could be debated) 4. Patrick Lebeau 5. Tom Chorske 6. Andre Racicot, ect Everytime Ribs meets or exceeds in an area the fans say he cannot reach (scoring 20 goals, leading the team in points, a leader in +/-, taking an active roll in leadership), the bar gets higher, and those fans still beat him down. The pressure of playing on the habs have crushed the above list of "potential" NHL stars. And would probably crush some current stars like Roenick, Thornton and Fedorov. Ribs seams immune to it. Be glad he likes to play in Montreal. It's OK to have the bar high, but when he meets your goals, praise him, don't hit him with it. If Locke or Plecks can replace Ribs, then I believe we will have a better team. But Locke and Plecks haven't played very much in the NHL yet, and Ribs' one good season is worth a thousand "Maybe's" and "What If's". Just my thoughts... now back to Locke.... |
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Post by blaise on Oct 27, 2004 23:22:16 GMT -5
Yes, Locke. To my delight he's gotten off to a fine start with Hamilton. Frankly, I didn't expect it. Give him credit. He's playing in a league that is stronger overall than it was at the same time last year.
Speaking of the AHL, I was curious to see how Jozef Balej was faring with Hartford. He's doing OK. In 4 games he's 1 3 4 +2.
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Post by blaise on Oct 27, 2004 23:41:49 GMT -5
He did get heavier than 180 and the 185 sticks with me too. Maurice the Rocket was the man who made me a Habs fan. That man shot with a flat-bladed wooden stick. Perhaps his greatest asset was his accuracy. I once saw him score 4 goals in a game against Gump Worsley, all on wrist shots. I don't think he resorted to the slap shot even after he saw what Bernie Geoffrion could do with it because many of Geoffrion's shots were wild misses that hit the end boards resoundingly (hence the Boom-Boom). |
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Post by Doc Holliday on Oct 28, 2004 7:39:11 GMT -5
If Locke or Plecks can replace Ribs, then I believe we will have a better team. But Locke and Plecks haven't played very much in the NHL yet, and Ribs' one good season is worth a thousand "Maybe's" and "What If's". Indeed. I am happy that Locke and Pleks are develloping well and if both can become NHLer than all the better. I haven't seen Locke play at all so I can't comment on his play. I have seen Pleks though and he's not the kind of player that gets me excited. He reminds me of a Sundstrom/Dackell kind of player. He's among the good players of the AHL but has yet to impress anyone at the NHL level. Be it in training camps or in tryouts. He's still young though and as we saw with Garon, Ward, Ribeiro and Ryder, players shouldn't be discarded because they're not NHL ready at 19. That being said I really wish that Ribeiro can build on the season he had last year and maybe become a perrenial 25g/75pts kinda player. |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Oct 28, 2004 12:32:40 GMT -5
Locke and Ribeiro have a lot in common.
Size, although Ribs is taller.
Jr. Scoring phenom. Locke led the OHL two years in a row.
Determination. Both were discounted because of their size and they produced to prove their detractors wrong.
Stickhandling. Both are wizards with the puck.
Vision. Both see the ice and make their linemates look good.
Speed. Although they both have quickness, neither has the blinding speed we like in small players.
Attitude. Both are 100% focused on the ice and dedicated to their craft. They would still play hockey if they were not paid to do so. Ribs has a chip on his shoulder that drives him to prove the coaches/writers/opposition wrong. Locke had the same drive to regain the scoring leadership from Corey Perry last year but works more closely with the coaches as opposed to being a loner.
I've long been an advocate for more size like Tampa Bay and I like some big guys like Bernier, Stewart, Alexeev and Chipchura; but when a Locke, Ribeiro or Hudler comes along I recognize something special that may enable them to overcome the still big size obstacle.
We've seen enough Mikita, Cournoyer, Keon, Koivu, Lindsay (Gretzky?) type players to know what they can contibute.
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