|
|
Post by Tankdriver on Aug 6, 2014 22:48:38 GMT -5
This after getting a 4.5% increase 5 months ago. Can someone explain the argument why having wind electricity competition causes rates to increase? Shouldn't it be less based on supply and demand?
|
|
|
|
Post by Cranky on Aug 7, 2014 0:56:10 GMT -5
This after getting a 4.5% increase 5 months ago. Can someone explain the argument why having wind electricity competition causes rates to increase? Shouldn't it be less based on supply and demand? Wind energy? It's far more expensive then the current price they are paying from Churchill Falls. Don't complain, in Ontario with all the charges it's close to 23 cents a kilowatt now (all in) and going to about 36 cents within a year or so. Why you ask? Greenwa$hing. Liberal$ will $tack our money to keep the $ky from falling....and all their buddie$ and cronies are collecting it. |
|
|
|
Post by franko on Aug 7, 2014 5:58:16 GMT -5
are you now a buddy and a crony?
4 more years of them . . . unless the opposition finds yet another inept "leader", wherein it becomes 8 years.
|
|
|
|
Post by Tankdriver on Aug 7, 2014 8:05:23 GMT -5
I know wind energy will cost more due to the building and development of the mills at first but how or why does it affect hydro? All the damms and contracts are already in place. So if hydro had a bigger surplus because of others sources of energy available, why couldn't they sell the surplus to the US at a higger price to recoup the loss which they do already?
|
|
|
|
Post by franko on Aug 7, 2014 8:27:29 GMT -5
I know wind energy will cost more due to the building and development of the mills at first but how or why does it affect hydro? All the damms and contracts are already in place. So if hydro had a bigger surplus because of others sources of energy available, why couldn't they sell the surplus to the US at a higger price to recoup the loss which they do already? wind/solar affects the total energy cost. here in Ontario [as one HabsRuser will attest] we are "encouraging" these farms by paying a premium -- 60-80¢ per KWH, far more than the cost of hydro [in fact, if there is a choice between hydro and wind, the hydro dams are shut down to [again] "encourage" "alternative energy use" [boy that's a lot of quotes]. as to surplus sales . . . haven't had such a good laugh in a while. Ontario sells surplus hydro to the States at 3¢ per KWH (a loss) just to dump it -- but charges Ontario residents full price and tells us to conserve. |
|
|
|
Post by blny on Aug 7, 2014 10:00:17 GMT -5
That pales in comparison to the some of the rate increases that NS Power has sought from the Utility Board here. Meanwhile, executives at the private parent company Emera are raking it in. Let it be a lesson that public utilities should NEVER be sold off.
|
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Aug 7, 2014 10:02:38 GMT -5
are you now a buddy and a crony? 4 more years of them . . . unless the opposition finds yet another inept "leader", wherein it becomes 8 years. Toronto ... home to a Liberal government and a hockey team, both of who suck dirty bath water ... how much do they have in common ... thanks for asking ... they're both poorly-run businesses and they both excel at sucking the life finances out of people ... yet the people don't seem to care* ... * paid for by The Friends of Dis70Hab for Toronto-is-not-the-centre-of-the-Canadian-Universe-Campaign |
|
|
|
Post by Cranky on Aug 7, 2014 13:05:24 GMT -5
are you now a buddy and a crony? 4 more years of them . . . unless the opposition finds yet another inept "leader", wherein it becomes 8 years. No. More like if you hand me onions, I'm making onion soup...... As for another opposition leader, good luck. The unions have unfettered power to spend as much as they want to demonize even Mother Teresa and support their Liberal benefactors. |
|
|
|
Post by Cranky on Aug 7, 2014 13:12:03 GMT -5
are you now a buddy and a crony? 4 more years of them . . . unless the opposition finds yet another inept "leader", wherein it becomes 8 years. Toronto ... home to a Liberal government and a hockey team, both of who suck dirty bath water ... how much do they have in common ... thanks for asking ... they're both poorly-run businesses and they both excel at sucking the life finances out of people ... yet the people don't seem to care* ... * paid for by The Friends of Dis70Hab for Toronto-is-not-the-centre-of-the-Canadian-Universe-CampaignWhatever the concrete cave dwellers of Toronto want then it's what they get. Activist democracy in action....and who cares about anyone else. There was some howling of giving Toronto "provincial taxing powers". I would very much welcome that idea....as long as it actually become a province and I could move out of it a few blocks away. They should have a right to tax themselves to oblivion for all I care. |
|
|
|
Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Aug 7, 2014 14:39:54 GMT -5
Toronto ... home to a Liberal government and a hockey team, both of who suck dirty bath water ... how much do they have in common ... thanks for asking ... they're both poorly-run businesses and they both excel at sucking the life finances out of people ... yet the people don't seem to care* ... * paid for by The Friends of Dis70Hab for Toronto-is-not-the-centre-of-the-Canadian-Universe-CampaignWhatever the concrete cave dwellers of Toronto want then it's what they get. Activist democracy in action....and who cares about anyone else. There was some howling of giving Toronto "provincial taxing powers". I would very much welcome that idea....as long as it actually become a province and I could move out of it a few blocks away. They should have a right to tax themselves to oblivion for all I care. \The worlds largest propeller will be attached to the CN Tower or whatever the windmill will be called. It will potentially speed up the rotation of the Earth (around Toronto) and blow the moon into a further orbit. Hopefully it will blow away Rob Fords hot air. Obama will complain that cold fronts will get blown from the Canadian polar vortex stranding polar bears in Manitoba and reducing ice in the arctic ocean. Surprise, taxes going up? There has to be a way to tax rain and Hydro is the way. Windmill Quebec needs a bilingual name. |
|
|
|
Post by franko on Aug 7, 2014 17:25:43 GMT -5
as to surplus sales . . . haven't had such a good laugh in a while. Ontario sells surplus hydro to the States at 3¢ per KWH (a loss) just to dump it -- but charges Ontario residents full price and tells us to conserve. : Using the IESO monthly reports, we find that the all-in cost – as reported in the IESO’s “Summary of Wholesale Market Electricity Charges in Ontario’s Competitive Marketplace”– for the 10 months worth of exports is $1.6-billion, or 10.5 cents a kWh. From the two above dollar figures any literate person can quickly determine that we lose just over $1.2-billion on our exports. That’s a loss of eight cents per kWh and a cost $250 for every average ratepayer in the province over 10 months. The last two months of the year will likely push that to $300. |
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Aug 7, 2014 19:21:29 GMT -5
Thanks Franko ... these are very useful links ...
Cheers.
|
|
|
|
Post by Cranky on Aug 7, 2014 22:01:38 GMT -5
as to surplus sales . . . haven't had such a good laugh in a while. Ontario sells surplus hydro to the States at 3¢ per KWH (a loss) just to dump it -- but charges Ontario residents full price and tells us to conserve. : Using the IESO monthly reports, we find that the all-in cost – as reported in the IESO’s “Summary of Wholesale Market Electricity Charges in Ontario’s Competitive Marketplace”– for the 10 months worth of exports is $1.6-billion, or 10.5 cents a kWh. From the two above dollar figures any literate person can quickly determine that we lose just over $1.2-billion on our exports. That’s a loss of eight cents per kWh and a cost $250 for every average ratepayer in the province over 10 months. The last two months of the year will likely push that to $300.I worked it out to about 120 billion EXTRA from the last 5 years and next 20 years into the future. That was the spread between going gas/nuclear at 6 cents a kw. Add tens of billions more for selling greenwashing overproduction it at a loss. Plus you have to back up every single lousy greenwashing kw with gas/hydro/nuclear. Now you have to have and carry and pay for both greenwashing and regular energy production. So let's say it's 140 billion over 25 years. That's 5 billion a year that could of been spent on schools, hospitals, pensions, things we NEED. But hey, as long as some people feel good about it and as long as the Liberals remain in power it's all good. "look up and shakes head" story.... A month or so ago I was washing my car and as usual, two of my neighbors came over to see the amazing sight of.....someone washing a car. It started about Greece and it's debt, eventually the conversation came around to Ontario politics. To make a long story short, they were bitching and whining about debt/taxes/electricity/inflation and that their pensions was evaporating faster then ever. One had a Liberal sign on his lawn and BOTH voted for the Liberals. As my usual less then gentle self, I commented bluntly that you can't complain about what a government does when you VOTED for the damn government. Both of their excuses was that it was the Conservatives fault because they had no choice. They where going to cut jobs and spending and "we would have a recession". And where did that information come from? The Liberals told them so. And while we are trolloping in the fantasy zone, according to them, the Liberals are going to spend until we have a great economy! But nobody pays for it....... Ask any Greek and he/she will get angry if you point out to them that THEY voted for the politicians with the most goodies and promises. Maybe it's genetic, maybe it's the lack of substance abuse, but I simply don't get the utter disconnect. |
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Aug 10, 2014 15:11:18 GMT -5
This after getting a 4.5% increase 5 months ago. Can someone explain the argument why having wind electricity competition causes rates to increase? Shouldn't it be less based on supply and demand? Wind energy? It's far more expensive then the current price they are paying from Churchill Falls. Don't complain, in Ontario with all the charges it's close to 23 cents a kilowatt now (all in) and going to about 36 cents within a year or so. Why you ask? Greenwa$hing. Liberal$ will $tack our money to keep the $ky from falling....and all their buddie$ and cronies are collecting it. Whew, makes my bitc, I mean complaining about my second tier 11 cents a kilowatt seem petty. I say dam a few more rivers! |
|
|
|
Post by Cranky on Aug 11, 2014 12:25:08 GMT -5
Whew, makes my bitc, I mean complaining about my second tier 11 cents a kilowatt seem petty. I say dam a few more rivers! It's about 10 cents a kw here but they split all the other services and they charge them separately. Overall, including HST, it's closer to 23 too 24 cents a kw. Delivery charge, retirement charge, administration charge, bathroom, hookers, booze......everything is piled on separately so they can claim it's "only" 10 cents. Funny how my electricity bill is half of what it used to be when I was running full production 24/7....and 1/10 the amount of business. |
|
|
|
Post by franko on Aug 12, 2014 10:25:43 GMT -5
this will be in tomorrow's on-line edition of the National (Financial) Post (for all those "righties" out there). it's in the print edition today.
Germany — the country on which Ontario modelled its approach to renewable energy development — has a $412-billion lesson for Ontario. That’s the amount the country has spent on subsidies in support of solar and wind energy, among other renewables, over the past 20 years, all in the push to wean the country off fossil fuel and nuclear generation.
On the surface — and according to many news sites — the program has been a success, and not just because of the 378,000 people renewables now employ.
By the end of 2012 (the most recent year for data), wind and solar provided about 13% of all German electricity consumption. Adding in hydro and biomass, renewables provided more than 23%. And in May, headline writers around the world proudly trumpeted that renewable energy provided 75% of the country’s total electricity consumption.
But scratch a bit below the surface and an entirely different picture emerges — one with households being pushed into “energy poverty” as renewable subsidies lead to soaring power bills, handouts to the country’s big businesses and exporters so they can avoid paying for those subsidies and a systematic bankrupting of traditional utilities. As for that one day in May when headlines celebrated that 75% of power generation came from renewables, well, it was a Sunday when demand for power is at its lowest level.
Germany’s decision to support renewable energy at all costs has, ultimately, cost the country’s ratepayers billions of dollars and led to a doubling of monthly electricity bills over the past decade. Households now pay the second highest rates for electricity in the EU — second only to Denmark, the world leader in wind turbines. The country’s feed-in tariff program — which offers renewable energy producers a guaranteed rate for their power — has already cost $412-billion, but could, according to one estimate from a former Minister of the Environment, produce an $884-billion price tag by 2022. Germany will hand out $31.1-billion of renewable energy subsidies in this year alone.
The price of electricity paid by German households has increased from 14 cents (euro) per kilowatt hour in 2000 to 29 cents per kilowatt hour last year — marking a 107% increase, while inflation over that time period was about 22%. The biggest reason for that increase is the renewable energy subsidy, which amounted to 1.4% of the total bill when it was first introduced in 2000, but now accounts for 18%. That renewable levy now costs the average household in Germany more than $320 a year.
Rising electricity prices for households led Der Spiegel, one of the country’s most respected magazines, to warn that electricity was becoming a “luxury good.” More than 300,000 households each year are being left in the dark because they can’t afford electricity.
German households are being hit particularly hard by the cost of renewable subsidies because the country’s largest businesses — many of them exporters and in energy-intensive sectors — have been exempt from paying for them. Regulators and politicians — fearing that high electricity prices would hurt the economy and result in job losses or plant closures — gave big business a free pass and instead shifted the costs to households.
The renewable subsidies have distorted Germany’s power market to such an extent that traditional utilities are being pushed to the brink of collapse. Electricity generated from solar and wind has no relationship with the market. Because the price the producers receive is guaranteed and is not based on demand, they dump their output whenever it is produced. This glut of power has, at times, pushed the price of wholesale power below zero — meaning the utilities need to pay someone to use it. This has skewed the price to such an extent that traditional generators can’t economically produce power — they simply stop producing when the price goes too low.
While the answer would seem to be to close those uneconomic generators, that’s not possible since renewable energy is intermittent — at times it will produce no power, while at others it will produce too much — and traditional generators are needed to provide a secure, reliable source of power. Utilities are being asked to keep producing power even though the economics of it don’t make sense anymore. To prevent utilities in Germany from pulling out of the business of generation, the government now offers more than billion dollars in “balancing payments” — sometimes 400 times the price of power — to stabilize the grid.
The rise of renewable power has also led to coal making a comeback. The amount of generation from coal actually increased from 43% of all output in 2011 to nearly 45% in 2012. Electricity generation from lignite, a cheaper and dirtier form of coal, has also been on the rise because, according to one Germany utility, it’s the only thing that can compete with subsidized renewable energy.
The energy situation in Germany has become so disruptive and politically untenable that the government has recently done everything it can to pull back on subsidies and other support for renewable energy, much to the dismay of renewable producers that still can’t survive on their own.
Far from being a success, Germany’s rush into renewable energy has crushed households, taxpayers and utilities. Ontario needs a better model.
|
|
