|
Post by Polarice on Nov 11, 2014 14:59:46 GMT -5
Eller and Beaulieu for Yakupov. The talk is it's just Beaulieu for Yakupov now.
|
|
|
Post by UberCranky on Nov 11, 2014 15:00:13 GMT -5
Does she damage date old Hab fans?
|
|
|
Post by blny on Nov 11, 2014 15:04:11 GMT -5
Eller and Beaulieu for Yakupov. The talk is it's just Beaulieu for Yakupov now. If it's one for one, I do that deal.
|
|
|
Post by Willie Dog on Nov 11, 2014 15:10:50 GMT -5
Does she damage date old Hab fans? Probably and yes she would do some serious damage to you and others as well.
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 11, 2014 16:34:09 GMT -5
As for Moen....think DLR. Hope so ... Cheers.
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 11, 2014 16:46:25 GMT -5
Hearing that trade talked about earlier this week with Edmonton may be immanent. Moen gone and another trade possibly coming ... wonder if that might explain the ebb and flow to the Habs' game recently ... Cheers.
|
|
|
Post by habsorbed on Nov 11, 2014 17:00:05 GMT -5
I like the trade. We are no weaker a team than we were yesterday. And may be much better if Gonchar kick starts the PP, plays well with Emelin, PK or Markov. Moen was a part time player at this point. As for the PK, Moen is no big loss; we have lots of players Eller, Pleks, Max, Bourni, Manny, Prust who can do the job. Also gonchar brings some size to our D. He's no slouch.
I'm very happy with this if it means Gilbert gets less ice time. Not so much if it's Tinner and Beau.
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 11, 2014 17:07:20 GMT -5
Tweet from Pierre Lebrun:
@real_ESPNLeBrun
Moen excited about going to Dallas. Says team with great future. Knows Benn, Cole, Fiddler and Eakin so that will help 2:38 PM - 11 Nov 2014
|
|
|
Post by blny on Nov 11, 2014 17:14:55 GMT -5
Cole's been playing on the 4th line in Dallas apparently. Some Stars fans on HF calling for him to be the next to go.
|
|
|
Post by blny on Nov 11, 2014 17:16:35 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by NWTHabsFan on Nov 11, 2014 17:19:50 GMT -5
Eller and Beaulieu for Yakupov. The talk is it's just Beaulieu for Yakupov now. I'd give that one a go.
|
|
|
Post by HFTO on Nov 11, 2014 17:26:33 GMT -5
Unless there is another move as suggested it makes little sense at this point, this would have made more sense as a deadline deal if the scenario was the same. I want those kids in the lineup but that obviously is not going to happen...I have no problem with one moving if we get real added help up front. Yakupov maybe re energized with his buddy but his buddy needs to be at centre so is there another move???
Also the problem with Yakupov besides his attitude is he can't play defense and he would drive MT mad....I'd set my sights higher and look at Eberle if these Edmonton rumours are valid.
In the short term looks like Drayson Bowman will find his way in, he has some hands so he may chip in offensively, also opens spot for the likes of a Tangradi. Interesting times can't say MB is an idle GM just hope he doesn't panic into pushing the process to fast.
HFTO
|
|
|
Post by stoat on Nov 11, 2014 17:40:44 GMT -5
Wow, don't know about this. Gonchar is OLD! Jagr is older... All kidding aside, I'm with you on this. How does this help us? Are we now going to send one of Tinordi or Beaulieu back to Hamilton on a more permanent basis? I guess this also explains why we recalled Drayson Bowman (sp?) last night. Certainly not on a (more) permanent basis! Gonchar's contract expires at the end of the season The Habs could even buy him out if he proves useless. In the meantime he might help the Habs' woeful PP. Neither Tinordi nor Beaulieu has done so yet. The Habs are battling at least two teams for the lead in the Atlantic Division. A few more goals on the power play (something Gonchar still knows what to do on 5 Vs. 4) might make a big difference by game 82. Bowman looks to be the replacement for Moen, at least temporarily.
|
|
|
Post by christrpn on Nov 11, 2014 17:41:20 GMT -5
I think this deal was simply to rid us of Moens contract next year. Keep in mind MB didn't consider Habs to be elite yet and I doubt he thinks we are REAL contenders this year. He has Gallagher, Galchenyuk, Beaulieu and Tinordi to worry about next year. If, and I mean IF, this preludes another trade, fine, great, but it would have to include Gonchar. We had to give up Moen to get him, what will we get in return?
|
|
|
Post by stoat on Nov 11, 2014 17:44:38 GMT -5
Eller and Beaulieu for Yakupov. The talk is it's just Beaulieu for Yakupov now. That would be interesting. Nail clicked on a line with Galchenyuk in the CHL. Besides, I would like to take him off the market. I wouldn't want one of the Habs' competitors to acquire him.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2014 17:58:33 GMT -5
The talk is it's just Beaulieu for Yakupov now. If it's one for one, I do that deal. I doubt the Oilers would be happy with that return.
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Nov 11, 2014 18:09:37 GMT -5
In the meantime he might help the Habs' woeful PP. Neither Tinordi nor Beaulieu has done so yet. In all fairness, Beaulieu hasn't had much PP time, I think it's about 25 seconds per PP and Tinordi barely sees the light of day on the 3rd pairing, much less any PP time. Beau might have worked out well playing with Markov. MT hasn't figured out that our best PP years were with Markov setting up a left hand shooting guy with a good slapper (Souray, MA Bergeron and Spreit). Of course, that was before his time. Maybe if one of the assistants can make MT believe its his idea....
|
|
|
Post by PTH on Nov 11, 2014 18:29:00 GMT -5
Not sure what to make of this one.
I like not having Moen's contract for next season. I dislike losing so much cap space this season.
I like having veterans make way for kids, but the kids who need ice are on D, not up front.
I like helping the PP, but with Subban and Markov, the problem shouldn't be at the point.
I dislike losing two veteran forwards in so little time; despite getting an older player, our team just became much younger (moreso since Gonchar is clearly a temporary fix, not a long-service player like Moen had become)
|
|
|
Post by PTH on Nov 11, 2014 18:32:34 GMT -5
Eller and Beaulieu for Yakupov. The talk is it's just Beaulieu for Yakupov now. If that were to happen, it would mean Yak had way more baggage than we realised, and we're one stop away from the KHL.
|
|
|
Post by Skilly on Nov 11, 2014 18:45:42 GMT -5
If this is a prelude to acquiring Yakupov, then the trade really does not make sense.
Yakupov had success with Galchenyuk ...when Galchenyuk played Center. If Yakupov comes here for Beaulieu we'd still have the centres we have now, so that chemistry will not quite be the same with both of them on the wing with Pleky as their Center. I can't see MT breaking up Eller/Sekac.
|
|
|
Post by Skilly on Nov 11, 2014 18:50:58 GMT -5
As for Gonchar playing three games ... They were the last three games (he must have just got off the DL).
I'm not sure if Gonchar is the answer, but we definitely need a second option on the PP. Subban and Markov may not be the problem, but they aren't the solution either. Subban plays virtually the entire 2:00 minutes, and they are totally unproductive. They need an option where they can be rested, especially Markov.
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Nov 11, 2014 18:57:28 GMT -5
As for Gonchar playing three games ... They were the last three games (he must have just got off the DL). I'm not sure if Gonchar is the answer, but we definitely need a second option on the PP. Subban and Markov may not be the problem, but they aren't the solution either. Subban plays virtually the entire 2:00 minutes, and they are totally unproductive. They need an option where they can be rested, especially Markov. Wasn't Beaulieu supposed to give Therrien the option of resting Markov? I'm having difficulty understanding the lingo. When MT and MB say it's a 'depth move', does that mean Gonchar sits until there's an injury and then jumps in? Or does it mean that he plays and the kids sit until there's an injury? I think both Tinordi and Beaulieu have the ability and desire to be regulars, even if they're numbers 5 and 6. But Therrien and Bergevin don't see it that way. Unless, of course, there's another shoe to drop. Then we're analyzing with only half the information.
|
|
|
Post by Dschens on Nov 11, 2014 19:00:45 GMT -5
Not sure what to make of this one. I like not having Moen's contract for next season. >> I dislike losing so much cap space this season. I've read somewhere that the cap for next season remains propably the same as for this season. With this in mind, shedding Moens contract makes a lot of sense.
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Nov 11, 2014 19:03:19 GMT -5
This is a good recap of the trade and pluses and minuses. www.habseyesontheprize.com/analysis/2014/11/11/7194977/sergei-gonchar-trade-canadiens-travis-moen-habs-powerplayCan Sergei Gonchar help the Canadiens?
By Andrew Berkshire
The primary reason for the trade of Travis Moen for Sergei Gonchar may be cap space in 2015-16, but in the meantime, can Gonchar contribute anything positive to the Habs?
Before we start, let's address one key thing, Sergei Gonchar isn't going to fix the Montreal Canadiens' powerplay. Gonchar had 22 points last season, 15 of which were on the powerplay, one fewer point than Ryan Whitney, who is playing in the KHL and can barely skate due to multiple ankle injuries that have destroyed his career. Gonchar played on the first wave of the Stars' powerplay last year, which clocked in at 23rd in the NHL, converting on only 15.9% of their opportunities. At 40 years old, Gonchar is not the elite offensive talent that he once was.
The Habs' powerplay also isn't struggling due to personnel, but due to poor tactics, and a little bit of bad shooting luck. Sergei Gonchar isn't going to have the other four skaters he's on the ice with dump the puck in less, unless he's magic.
What Gonchar can do is provide a little supplemental offense on the powerplay, however at this stage in his career I highly doubt that he will be more effective than Nathan Beaulieu. However the powerplay is a very tiny portion of the game, and at even strength, Gonchar looks like a liability. Where the trade looks bad
Sergei Gonchar is a familiar face for Michel Therrien. He was the top defenseman on the Penguins when he was the head coach there, and Gonchar being injured in 2008-09 is likely the main reason why Therrien was fired, then replaced by Dan Bylsma en route to a Stanley Cup.
Must Read How does Gonchar impact Beaulieu & Tinordi Scott Matla
Back then, Gonchar was an elite defenseman, similar to Andrei Markov now, and there's a very real possibility that Therrien will see Gonchar as he was 5 or 6 years ago instead of what he is now. As it stands, last season at age 39 only nice NHL defensemen who played 750 or more even strength minutes were given a higher percentage of offensive zone starts than Gonchar was, and only 15 NHL defensemen took a lower percentage of defensive zone starts.
Keep in mind that Dallas has a very, very weak defense, yet still the veteran Gonchar was very sheltered, and the results he gave in those minutes were underwhelming at best, with his team scoring just 46.1% of the goals while he was on the ice, taking 48.2% of the shots, and 48.8% of the shot attempts. The Stars were just under 2% better at controlling shot attempts when Gonchar was off the ice than when he was on it.
To be clear, Gonchar isn't Douglas Murray-level bad, but he's not someone who is going to make many teams better. If the Canadiens are going to make the mistake of putting Sergei Gonchar in the lineup consistently over Jarred Tinordi and Nathan Beaulieu, the team will be significantly worse in essentially every situation. Where the trade looks good
Travis Moen has some value on the defensive side of the puck, but he is essentially no longer a useful player outside of shorthanded situations. Clearing his nearly league-low possession rate out of the Habs' lineup should help the fourth line be more effective, and likely produce a little more offense.
Moen was making $1.85M this season, and next season, while Gonchar is an unrestricted free against this summer. The Habs have the cap space to accommodate his $4.6M salary (Dallas is retaining $400K) this year, but next year they have new deals to sign with Brendan Gallagher, Alex Galchenyuk, Nathan Beaulieu, Jarred Tinordi, and Michael Bournival. Couple that with the recent stories of the Canadian dollar sinking and the cap possibly not rising, and you can see why Bergevin moved Moen's contract when he could.
If the Canadiens are smart and only use Gonchar as an injury replacement, or a veteran willing to sit in the press box for most of the season while the kids develop, hopefully providing some leadership and guidance, the move is perfect. Room for optimism?
Two seasons ago Sergei Gonchar put up an unbelievable season for his age in Ottawa, playing semi-sheltered minutes, Gonchar was one of Ottawa's best defensemen. However that was the lockout shortened year, and the difference between 38 and 40 for athletes is, unfortunately, a lot. There is almost no chance that he can recapture that form now.
|
|
|
Post by HFTO on Nov 11, 2014 19:16:27 GMT -5
Dschens for sure 11 and 27 will need pay raises so with the cap not going up Habs would still be decently placed with their current core that should be getting better over the next few years....a lot of teams can't say that some will be in real trouble.
|
|
|
Post by Willie Dog on Nov 11, 2014 19:26:36 GMT -5
Dschens for sure 11 and 27 will need pay raises so with the cap not going up Habs would still be decently placed with their current core that should be getting better over the next few years....a lot of teams can't say that some will be in real trouble. The hawks are in trouble imo
|
|
|
Post by Salama on Nov 11, 2014 22:18:48 GMT -5
My guess, based on nothing, is that Bergevin was looking to dump Moen's salary to free up money for next year and had a hard time doing it without taking on basically equal money. Therrien has mentioned how much he liked Gonchar so this was the move.
The big negatives are that it makes a Vanek style rental at the deadline harder and it gives Therrien a chance to play the wrong guy if Gonchar is a liability, but those seem like issues Bergevin would be fairly well versed in.
|
|
|
Post by NWTHabsFan on Nov 11, 2014 22:42:35 GMT -5
Dschens for sure 11 and 27 will need pay raises so with the cap not going up Habs would still be decently placed with their current core that should be getting better over the next few years....a lot of teams can't say that some will be in real trouble. Chucky's cap hit is $3.225M due to big performance bonuses, part of the perks of being picked third overall. The Berg will likely try and get a bridge deal. His take home pay is likely to go way up, but his cap hit could still be reasonable compared to now.
|
|
|
Post by habsorbed on Nov 11, 2014 23:52:45 GMT -5
What i like about this trade is that if Markov goes down or gets tired Gonchar can carry his load for the most part. Obviously Beau and Tinner losing ice time is not a good thing but it doesn't have to be them. Both Weaver and Gilbert could use with less ice time - Gilbert because he's a liability and Weaver because he will tire over the long season. MT should be platooning the D to improve the youngins and rest the vets.
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 12, 2014 0:11:15 GMT -5
My guess, based on nothing, is that Bergevin was looking to dump Moen's salary to free up money for next year and had a hard time doing it without taking on basically equal money. Therrien has mentioned how much he liked Gonchar so this was the move. The big negatives are that it makes a Vanek style rental at the deadline harder and it gives Therrien a chance to play the wrong guy if Gonchar is a liability, but those seem like issues Bergevin would be fairly well versed in. Good points ... unless he frees up some additional space, an impact rental will be difficult to land ... don't wait so long to come back ... good seeing you checking in ... Cheers.
|
|