|
Post by CentreHice on Nov 20, 2014 17:17:16 GMT -5
Dis will be happy…maybe not, as he was clamouring for Allen a few years ago. Seventeen even happier, perhaps, as Bourque will never again take up a space on the Habs' roster. More logjam at defense….but do we improve? We certainly are getting older back there. How is Allen now…at 34 years old? In his final year at $3.5 million. Cap hit is only $169,000 more. But Bourque had another year. RDS
|
|
|
Post by HFTO on Nov 20, 2014 17:31:24 GMT -5
That's all I know about him but at 34 what does he bring to the table in terms of mobility and in the physical department ....man has our D aged the kids aside. Contract wise his salary is a wash this year but we win next as he is UFA....are these band-aids good enough to get the Habs to where MB is trying to get them???.
Looks like a marginally younger bigger Weaver
HFTO
|
|
|
Post by Doc Holliday on Nov 20, 2014 17:37:52 GMT -5
...like the Moen deal spelt the departure of Tinordi, I am relatively certain that the Bourque deal will mean Beaulieu sent down.
Not 100% certain we're making progress with these acquisitions (aside from freeing cap for next year)
|
|
|
Post by Skilly on Nov 20, 2014 17:48:44 GMT -5
Another acquisition that hasn't played the entire month of October ... What's up with that?
I don't agree with stunting our NHL ready prospects like this , but I guess we will have to wait and see .... Any man that manages to shed Briere, and Bourque deserves the benefit of the doubt, for now
|
|
|
Post by jkr on Nov 20, 2014 17:51:29 GMT -5
Bergevin seems to want to get out from under contracts for next year.
It seems as if management is not happy with the progress of Tinordi or Beaulieu ( especially after Tuesday's game) or why acquire these veteran guys. I'd be more concerned if Allen had years left on his deal.
His size is imposing 6'5" 225 according to hockeydb.com. I wonder if he uses it.
|
|
|
Post by jkr on Nov 20, 2014 17:53:08 GMT -5
Another acquisition that hasn't played the entire month of October ... What's up with that? I don't agree with stunting our NHL ready prospects like this , but I guess we will have to wait and see .... Any man that manages to shed Briere, and Bourque deserves the benefit of the doubt, for now Agreed. How could anyone watch Bourque play and want him on your team?
|
|
|
Post by NWTHabsFan on Nov 20, 2014 18:02:14 GMT -5
The end of the Bork era in Montreal. Rather surprised the Berg got an NHLer for him.
So, I guess this does mean that 21 year old Beau and 22 year old Tinordi are going to be earning their keep in Hamilton this season. Was hoping to see both of them bump out some of the older guys in Montreal this year, but I guess that is targeted for next year at the earliest. They are still young, and they should get tons of ice time in Hamilton. That is now one old D corps in Montreal, at least until next summer (or the Berg's next move, whatever comes first).
Definitely does clear up more cap space for next summer for the Berg to sort out the bridge deals (Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Tinordi, Beaulieu), and whatever else he plans on using it for. I hope we do add some scoring depth on the wing if that is available. The bridge deals for the two young D men should not break the bank considering neither has stuck with the big club. Gally will get a raise for sure, and Galchenyuk already has a cap hit of north of $3M due to all his entry level bonuses. The Berg should still have some green with which to play in the market place.
|
|
|
Post by GNick99 on Nov 20, 2014 18:02:19 GMT -5
Must free up some caproom
|
|
|
Post by habsorbed on Nov 20, 2014 18:15:36 GMT -5
This is a great move. We have dumped Bourques salary for next year. He was never going to play again for us so paying him to be in the minors was senseless. Allen is not likely to play for the Habs unless there are injuries and that's fine (Did i mention dumping Bourque's salary?). Allen may also be able to help Tinordi in the minors as they are similar size and skill set. I don't see Allen upsetting the current hierarchy on the Habs roster. The expression is 'you can never have too many dmen'! Especially come playoff time! I'm good!
|
|
|
Post by jkr on Nov 20, 2014 18:20:05 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by habsorbed on Nov 20, 2014 18:22:56 GMT -5
Another acquisition that hasn't played the entire month of October ... What's up with that? I don't agree with stunting our NHL ready prospects like this , but I guess we will have to wait and see .... Any man that manages to shed Briere, and Bourque deserves the benefit of the doubt, for now Agreed. How could anyone watch Bourque play and want him on your team? I can somewhat understand where the Ducks are coming from. They have a dman who is not playing for them and they're paying him good coin. They take a flier on a forward who may assist in their top 12. Ducks are Cup hunting this year and Bourque may be an asset, particularly come playoff time. Ducks only downside is next year's salary for Bourque. That's a fair risk for a player who will likely help a bit now and may just need a change of scenery to blossom and help a lot..
|
|
|
Post by HFTO on Nov 20, 2014 18:23:33 GMT -5
Have to wonder if MB is maneuvering for a bigger deal D depth is good and all but not convinced he thinks this group now can be good enough.
|
|
|
Post by CentreHice on Nov 20, 2014 18:35:03 GMT -5
All these changes….I hope the boys see that the GM is constantly working towards making this team Cup-competitive. Even if it disrupts the roster somewhat.
When you have a pro-active GM like that, it also keeps everyone on their toes. Not an atmosFEAR…but a mindset of "This guy knows what he wants and he's doing it. And I want to be a part of it."
|
|
|
Post by Lord Bebop on Nov 20, 2014 18:40:00 GMT -5
The end of the Bork era in Montreal. Rather surprised the Berg got an NHLer for him. So, I guess this does mean that 21 year old Beau and 22 year old Tinordi are going to be earning their keep in Hamilton this season. Was hoping to see both of them bump out some of the older guys in Montreal this year, but I guess that is targeted for next year at the earliest. They are still young, and they should get tons of ice time in Hamilton. That is now one old D corps in Montreal, at least until next summer (or the Berg's next move, whatever comes first). Definitely does clear up more cap space for next summer for the Berg to sort out the bridge deals (Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Tinordi, Beaulieu), and whatever else he plans on using it for. I hope we do add some scoring depth on the wing if that is available. The bridge deals for the two young D men should not break the bank considering neither has stuck with the big club. Gally will get a raise for sure, and Galchenyuk already has a cap hit of north of $3M due to all his entry level bonuses. The Berg should still have some green with which to play in the market place. They sent bobby Shea down to Wheeling Nailors so I assume Beaulieau goes to hamilton??hamilton can use his offensive and good for Beaulieau as he needs to find his game again I haven't loved Weavers game so far this season so maybe this trade slides weaver down to #7 spot With the trade for Gonchar and Allen.....it gives Beaulieau and tinordi Extra development time maybe til next training camp
|
|
|
Post by Willie Dog on Nov 20, 2014 18:55:28 GMT -5
MB is a wizard, how do you manage to move briere moen and bourque in tge same season. Great move.
|
|
|
Post by blny on Nov 20, 2014 19:01:24 GMT -5
I like it. It's a warm body, of pretty serious size, on an expiring contract, for a player who was useless. Allen had some good years. Injuries have hampered him, but he's not afraid to use his size. forecaster.thehockeynews.com/hockeynews/hockey/player.php?1783He won't necessarily have to play every day, which will be good for him. He'll be good to have in the line up in games against bigger teams. He had decent mobility when he was younger. Not sure about now. He's a guy that would have garnered serious interest at the deadline if the Ducks were out of the playoff picture, especially when you consider the lack of depth available.
|
|
|
Post by Disp on Nov 20, 2014 19:15:14 GMT -5
MB is a wizard, how do you manage to move briere moen and bourque in tge same season. Great move. Agreed. Everyone wants dmen, MB got 2 guys who can play, cleared capspace for next year and got rid of guys who are easily replaced from within. What's not to like?
|
|
|
Post by Skilly on Nov 20, 2014 19:43:33 GMT -5
The end of the Bork era in Montreal. Rather surprised the Berg got an NHLer for him. So, I guess this does mean that 21 year old Beau and 22 year old Tinordi are going to be earning their keep in Hamilton this season. Was hoping to see both of them bump out some of the older guys in Montreal this year, but I guess that is targeted for next year at the earliest. They are still young, and they should get tons of ice time in Hamilton. That is now one old D corps in Montreal, at least until next summer (or the Berg's next move, whatever comes first). Definitely does clear up more cap space for next summer for the Berg to sort out the bridge deals (Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Tinordi, Beaulieu), and whatever else he plans on using it for. I hope we do add some scoring depth on the wing if that is available. The bridge deals for the two young D men should not break the bank considering neither has stuck with the big club. Gally will get a raise for sure, and Galchenyuk already has a cap hit of north of $3M due to all his entry level bonuses. The Berg should still have some green with which to play in the market place. The obvious downside to this trade is that next year we will once again have effectively 2 rookies on defense attempting to learn on the job instead of learning this year ... Oh to have an employer with patience. To make matters worse, next year these rookies will be playing with the same four guys they should have been learning with this year - Subban, Markov, Emelin and Gilbert. All this because we really really needed Weaver ..... Really?
|
|
|
Post by Willie Dog on Nov 20, 2014 19:43:50 GMT -5
MB is a wizard, how do you manage to move briere moen and bourque in tge same season. Great move. Agreed. Everyone wants dmen, MB got 2 guys who can play, cleared capspace for next year and got rid of guys who are easily replaced from within. What's not to like? If MT can rotate weaver gilbert and Allen properly that will help. I wonder if MB thinks they're not ready this year.
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Nov 20, 2014 20:06:30 GMT -5
I liked Bryan Allen a couple of years ago and haven't seen him play since. He has some grit to him, or had, at least. I would guess at his age, he's lost a step. The way I read it, this is freeing up cap space. The cost is the development time for Tinordi and Beaulieu at the NHL level. It'll please Therrien anyway, as Allen is likely to never make a mistake, being a veteran. The other possibility is that Beaulieu and/or Tinordi are trade chips that he's willing to move to get a top 6 winger that he wants, without leaving himself depthless on defence.
Berg seems really concerned about CAP for next year. Really concerned. He's managed that part of it extremely well. I'm still disappointed that road blocks keep coming up for Nathan and Jared. Perhaps they don't deserve their ice time, but I wasn't so sure of that. Tinordi, especially, to me, played ok. Not brilliantly and he made a few errors, but overall he was ok and getting better and more confident. That train's been sidetracked.
|
|
|
Post by NWTHabsFan on Nov 21, 2014 0:55:09 GMT -5
Every one of our defenders makes mistakes though, the big contract dude included. MT reels in the kids because he can. Less money and they can play in Hamilton for free. Takes less work and coaching skill that way.
|
|
|
Post by PTH on Nov 21, 2014 1:07:52 GMT -5
We added yet another 30+ defenseman, though it makes sense to load up for this season to a certain extent - you never know when your next chance will come up.
Plus, more cap room for next summer.
I still wonder why Anaheim makes this deal though.
|
|
|
Post by habsorbed on Nov 21, 2014 1:14:09 GMT -5
Other bonus to the deal is that with the Bruins' injuries on the back end they would have loved to get Allen in their line up. Now I'm going to love Allen in the Habs line up when we play the Bs.
Wonder how much Beau's play against the Pens solidified MB's view on this trade. Beau had a horrible game.
If Allen and Tinordi ever replace Gilbert and Weaver we got a pretty tough D.
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Nov 21, 2014 1:33:19 GMT -5
Weaver is highly underrated IMO. Yes he'll never be a scorer, but he does a ton of things well in his own end. The guys who shouldn't be here next year are Gonchar and Allen. That still leaves another spot that needs to be vacated, to make room, for the kids but we'll see what happens the rest of this year.
I have a lot of confidence that Tinordi will adjust and improve. I'm not so sure about Beaulieu. He has more offensive talent than most defensemen in the league, but he has to find that personal discipline that has plagued him throughout his career. There has always been questions about his attitude. I still remember hearing that he didn't try coming back hard on a turnover against the Russian juniours, costing the Canadian team a goal in a game they eventually made close. So while we can gush about his offensive abilities, of which he has a lot, I can see why Berg is unsure about him. I have a lot more questions over the Tinordi handling, since his mistakes are not about lack of effort, nor lack of talent. He plays well and makes one, unfortunately glaring, mistake and MT treats it like first degree murder and jails him. Instead of supporting, he punishes. If MT doesn't improve in that area, and in line-up decisions, I think we're never going to be a Cup champion.
Maybe Berg can help improve Therrien. He forced his hand with the moves of Moen and Bourque, but both those involved forwards, not defensemen. You can see, though, that MT is still being stubborn in not playing Sekac on the PP. That's a real puzzler. Maybe its too complicated for him to figure out his lines after the PP is over. I would solve that by playing the entire Eller line. Its amazing how Therrien seems to find ways to bug me, but he does. And all I'm asking for is for him to use some common sense.
|
|
|
Post by Douper on Nov 21, 2014 7:21:39 GMT -5
Great deal. Next year we have to resign Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Beaulieu and Tinordi. I was a big fan of going with the two young dmen and letting them learn on the fly. But being able to bring in Gonchar and Allen for players we were not using is a steal. Now the key will be finding a rotation between Gonchar, Gilbert and Allen. It's great to finally have a proactive GM who has a clear plan.
Best team we've had here in years!
|
|
|
Post by BadCompany on Nov 21, 2014 9:05:49 GMT -5
Briere, Moen, Bourque... three guys that nobody thought Bergevin could trade, and all three are gone.
While I'm sure that most of us would have preferred a pick and/or a prospect for Bourque, after he cleared waivers last week we all knew that wasn't going to happen. Nobody was going to take on that contract without giving one back. And while I'm sure we would have all preferred a forward instead of another defenseman Bergevin probably didn't have much choice in the matter. Consider the following criteria that needed to be met in order to trade Bourque:
1) There had to be another team interested in him. Well, duh, but giving that's it Bourque I'm not sure there were all that many who actually were. Certainly a few who were willing to kick the tires (his contract isn't THAT bad) but certainly not 29.
2) Any team that was interested in him had to have a player with an equal or greater cap hit, that they were willing to give up. Otherwise they weren't going to take Bourque.
3) That player had to be an unrestricted free agent at the end of this season, otherwise there is no benefit to Bergevin. He might as well just keep in in the minors.
4) Preferably, though probably not a necessity, that team had to be from the West (notice how Cole, Briere, Moen and Bourque all went out West? Coincident? Discuss amongst yourselves)
So given that criteria then, how many players really, were out there that could have been had in a potential deal? I'm going to say not many, so Bergevin was probably "forced" to take another defenseman. Which given everything he has always said and done regarding defensemen, he probably wasn't all that upset about anyways, if at all.
This trade isn't very good for either Tinordi or Beaulieu obviously, at least not in the short run, but clearly Bergevin is in win-now mode, despite what he may be saying. He's set himself up quite nicely for a big acquisition this year, and if nothing changes he's already set for next year, with just the minor details of who get's what to figure out. I was playing on capgeek this morning, and if the cap stays the same (and I'm still not sure it will) he's already under it, assuming healthy but fair bridge contracts to the RFAs, and the addition of another $3.5 million defenseman (I resigned Allen and Weaver to their current salaries, and still had room for one of Tinordi or Beaulieu). If the cap goes up by a couple of million, and Bergevin puts somebody like Desharnais on the block, he could be sitting very pretty with regards to acquiring a big-money winger. Like in the $6 million range, give or take. Or if he doesn't resign Allen but goes with another million dollar vet and/or a second rookie on the blueline, or he trades Emelin, or, or, or, we could be looking at an $8 million player (Staal?).
So all that to say that there really isn't any downside to this deal, and there is potential for hidden upside. Bourque may or may not rebound (he's got a really nice opportunity to do so in Anaheim), but obviously that wasn't going to happen here, so who cares? It's a surprisingly clever trade, in my opinion.
|
|
|
Post by blny on Nov 21, 2014 9:22:22 GMT -5
Cap space is a HUGE commodity. Berg is showing himself to be a master at making room.
|
|
|
Post by Willie Dog on Nov 21, 2014 9:47:35 GMT -5
Saw this posted on another site and the post is right on the money but he forgot about BooBoo and Whitey, so MB has moved 11 people.
EDIT: Including the Bulldogs, MB has moved out 18 people since the end of last year. This is now MBs team.
|
|
|
Post by PTH on Nov 21, 2014 12:38:01 GMT -5
(notice how Cole, Briere, Moen and Bourque all went out West? Coincident? Discuss amongst yourselves) Well, while that might have been intentional, it's also in part because Bergevin worked out west for years and might have better contacts out there. And for all of those trades, it might just as well be the Western GMs who didn't want to have to face Ryder, Parenteau, Gonchar or Allen facing off against their former teams. All that being said, I agree with the conclusion: no downside, some upside, to this deal. (IMO, the downside would've been taking icetime away from the kids, but I'm not sure they were going to get any at this point. The D most likely to suffer from this deal are Weaver and Gilbert, IMO).
|
|
|
Post by christrpn on Nov 21, 2014 18:42:59 GMT -5
We finally have that big stay at home defensman we needed. Who likes this trade most? Carey Price. Is he mobile? Probably better than Murray. Can he handle the puck? Maybe, time will only tell. after wondering how, on a team built for speed, a 40 ye old Gonchar was goinf=g to pan out, I've decided that N=MB obviously has: A) A great sense in building a team and B) Some great pro scout, who sniff out deals where no one else thought. Back to the youngens, does this deal make Tinordi or Beaulieu expendable? Not really, because neither can be replaced nest year. Although I will throw gasoline on the fire and say that a deal sending Beaulieu to Edmonton for Yakupov is now Imminent
|
|