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Post by Skilly on Jan 25, 2015 13:25:35 GMT -5
Also, Ive heard all kinds of arguements that the Patriots won by running not throwing .... My counter arguement would be that a deflated ball is easier for a running back to grip as well in the pouring rain, and helps him not fumble. Let's remember the Patriots running back were the ONLY team not to fumble all year. Hmmmmmm
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Post by Skilly on Jan 25, 2015 14:59:26 GMT -5
Now Belichek is claiming the Patriots conducted closely monitored experiments and accurately simulated the weather conditions and they have determined the weather deflated the balls by 1.5 psi
That great physicist Bill Belicheck.... One problem .... Why didn't the Colts balls deflate then?? Stick to football Belicheck
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Post by franko on Jan 25, 2015 15:34:49 GMT -5
Now Belichek is claiming the Patriots conducted closely monitored experiments and accurately simulated the weather conditions and they have determined the weather deflated the balls by 1.5 psi That great physicist Bill Belicheck.... One problem .... Why didn't the Colts balls deflate then?? Stick to football Belicheck actually it possible . . . if the Colts inflated the balls to the upper limit. I think. |
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Post by seventeen on Jan 25, 2015 16:42:22 GMT -5
I wouldn't be surprised if they've been doing this to their footballs for a number of years. It would explain why no one noticed any difference lately and no one expressly asked anyone to do anything differently lately. Patriot receivers often seem to do quite well, no? I wonder what their pass reception percentages are with the Patriots, compared to other teams they've played for. How do the Patriots compare in turnovers? Especially fumbles. I don't know the answer to that, so it may support the Patriots' argument. This may simply be the first time anyone has noticed/complained about it.
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Post by Skilly on Jan 25, 2015 16:44:26 GMT -5
Now Belichek is claiming the Patriots conducted closely monitored experiments and accurately simulated the weather conditions and they have determined the weather deflated the balls by 1.5 psi That great physicist Bill Belicheck.... One problem .... Why didn't the Colts balls deflate then?? Stick to football Belicheck actually it possible . . . if the Colts inflated the balls to the upper limit. I think. Actually franko, it's NOT possible, It's basic physics, PV=nRT Now don't get me wrong it IS possible, if you first measure the ball at room temperature and the game temperature was -20C. However, the game was played at 50F (32F is 0C) in the pouring rain. So the ONLY WAY Belichek could simulate 2 psi drop using the 50F game time temperature is if he first measured the pressure in heat wave conditions ... Or he measured it lastly in a freezer. |
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Post by Skilly on Jan 25, 2015 16:53:10 GMT -5
Football physics and the Science of Deflate-GateI did a quick google check, and found this ... Pretty similar to what I said above. They also reference MythBusters to state that the air in the ball has no effect on the performance of the ball (Theismann's arguement) but it does have an effect on the grip of the ball for QBs, RBs and WRs. (My arguement) One thing I didn't think of, the article mentions that the refs probably didn't notice because the balls were wet, and the weight of the rain, probably offset the weight of the air.
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Post by franko on Jan 25, 2015 17:03:09 GMT -5
actually it possible . . . if the Colts inflated the balls to the upper limit. I think. Actually franko, it's NOT possible, It's basic physics, PV=nRT Now don't get me wrong it IS possible, if you first measure the ball at room temperature and the game temperature was -20C. However, the game was played at 50F (32F is 0C) in the pouring rain. So the ONLY WAY Belichek could simulate 2 psi drop using the 50F game time temperature is if he first measured the pressure in heat wave conditions ... Or he measured it lastly in a freezer. thanks Skilly. basic physics. pffft. I think I went for 2 classes in grade 12 as I was trying to fill in my schedule. didn't need the credit; dropped the class a soon as "work" was involved. the Pats are just waiting until the next crisis hits the NFL and all will be forgotten. |
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Post by CentreHice on Jan 25, 2015 20:10:08 GMT -5
It's not because it was the Patriots ... It's because the Patriots are not above the league, it's integrity, or the New Orleans Saints. That's the question...if the Pats are guilty and get away with it...what will the Saints' organization cry? I'm sure they've been contacted for a comment or two.... One thing's for sure....all game balls will be in a controlled area from now on. Practice with what you want....but the game balls will be the same for everyone. I thought it was like that all along. |
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Post by franko on Jan 25, 2015 20:11:43 GMT -5
One thing's for sure....all game balls will be in a controlled area from now on. Practice with what you want....but the game balls will be the same for everyone. I thought it was like that all along. same here. common sense. then again . . . |
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Post by CentreHice on Jan 25, 2015 20:25:33 GMT -5
Why did Belichick even bother holding a PC to give a scientific explanation that doesn't pan out?
Would the Patriots have a PR department that came up with this strategy....or was it all Belichick's baby?
Either way, the organization gave it the okay. Maybe they were under pressure to say something other than, "I don't know....I have a football game to prepare for..."
Like Skilly said, if it was a scientific fact, then the Colts' footballs would've done the same thing.
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Post by BadCompany on Jan 26, 2015 7:38:36 GMT -5
True it didn't have any effect on the Colts game... But what about the Ravens game? That was a close one. Pats won it with five minutes left, on a winning TD pass. Couldn't an argument be made that it helped determine the outcome of the that game? It was the Ravens who alerted the Colts to the whole thing because the Pats had done it in that game too. The only thing I heard after the Ravens/Patriots game was complaints about the formations NE was using. There was no talk of under inflated footballs in that game. There are numerous reports that the Ravens tipped off the Colts to the balls being deflated. www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/deflategate-baltimore-ravens-indianapolis-colts-deflated-footballs-012115I wouldn't be surprised if they've been doing this to their footballs for a number of years. It would explain why no one noticed any difference lately and no one expressly asked anyone to do anything differently lately. Patriot receivers often seem to do quite well, no? I wonder what their pass reception percentages are with the Patriots, compared to other teams they've played for. How do the Patriots compare in turnovers? Especially fumbles. I don't know the answer to that, so it may support the Patriots' argument. This may simply be the first time anyone has noticed/complained about it. Well, if this analysis can be believed, the Patriots not only defy the fumble odds, they destroy them.  And then this, more in depth analysis, for the stats and science geeks. The article is good, but the graphs pretty much sums it up. The New England Patriots Prevention of Fumbles is Nearly Impossible And then there is this: New England Patriots Fumble More Often When Playing for Other Teams |
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Post by BadCompany on Jan 26, 2015 7:50:13 GMT -5
Not that I hate the Patriots or anything.  |
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Post by Polarice on Jan 26, 2015 9:55:49 GMT -5
Everyone is making a big deal because they know the Pats are gonna smoke Seattle by at least 20 points, and they are already looking to make excuses!!
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Post by seventeen on Jan 26, 2015 11:40:59 GMT -5
Hmmm. This could really hurt the Patriots. Not the scandal, of course, but if they have to play with balls that are the same as the other team's and the funble rates return to normal, they could be facing one or two more turnovers than they normally have, which would swing things considerably.
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Post by franko on Jan 26, 2015 11:54:45 GMT -5
I foresee an uptick in sales in the Boston area . . .  |
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Post by Skilly on Jan 26, 2015 12:13:57 GMT -5
Everyone is making a big deal because they know the Pats are gonna smoke Seattle by at least 20 points, and they are already looking to make excuses!! Everyone is making a "big deal" because they didnt need to gain any advantage to win, but they did try to get an advantage. It goes entirely against the integrity of the league. Here is a similar example to put it more into perspective. I would guess that all of us have gone to school (high school, univ, grad school)and have taken tests. I'd even hazard a guess that some of us here have even thought of inventive ways in which to gain an advantage while writing an exam. So let's say a student is really worried about a test, he writes formulas on his arm, or answers, or he has a piece of paper strategically sewn somewhere (the method is not important). When he turns his test over, he sighs with relief as he realizes he knows the answers, he isn't going to struggle and he writes his test never once looking at the cheat sheet he brought in. On his way out the door, very happy with himself, he lays the test on the teacher's (or prof's) desk, and as he does the teacher holds him back and finds the cheat sheet. Or notices writing on his arm. Or was on to him because he suspected him of cheating before and knew his technique. Whatever. Is that student guilty of cheating? Even though he never used the cheat sheet? Yes he is ... he'd have quite the job to prove he didn't cheat. And it didn't matter if he did cheat, all evidence points to that he was going to cheat if he found a question hard. |
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Post by seventeen on Jan 26, 2015 12:21:40 GMT -5
And for those who really hate the Patriots, here's something else they can check out. Earlier this NFL season, it looked like the Belichek/Brady era was coming to an end. I think the team was 2 and 3 or something like that and their offensive line, especially, looked really bad. Many pundits, including Bob Ryan of the Boston Globe, thought that team's run had come to an end as well. That might have been the weekend Belichek did his "We're going to Cincinnati" speech. Suddenly the offensive line went from sieve to Berlin Wall. I don't think the personnel changed. Nothing different. Swiss cheese to titanium Kevlar. Colour me skeptical. I wonder what happened over that week. Did Belichek pull some other shady tactic out of his hat?
All I know is that I'm still puzzled over the dramatic difference in the offensive line performance. Give Brady no time and he turns into your average ineffective QB. Give him time and he's the best.
I'm pretty sure this ball thing has thrown Belichek, which makes me wonder if there's more. He has really gone out of his way to try and 'prove' he didn't do anything wrong. Additionally, harping back to the "going to Cincinnati' mantra, he did it again this past week, saying "we're going to Seattle". Except the game was never in Seattle, it's in Arizona. Minor error? Sure, but for an anal retentive, obsessively compulsive character, he's off his game. It might matter to the betting crowd.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jan 26, 2015 12:54:58 GMT -5
So let's say a student is really worried about a test, he writes formulas on his arm, or answers, or he has a piece of paper strategically sewn somewhere (the method is not important). When he turns his test over, he sighs with relief as he realizes he knows the answers, he isn't going to struggle and he writes his test never once looking at the cheat sheet he brought in. On his way out the door, very happy with himself, he lays the test on the teacher's (or prof's) desk, and as he does the teacher holds him back and finds the cheat sheet. Or notices writing on his arm. Or was on to him because he suspected him of cheating before and knew his technique. Whatever. Is that student guilty of cheating? Even though he never used the cheat sheet? Yes he is ... he'd have quite the job to prove he didn't cheat. And it didn't matter if he did cheat, all evidence points to that he was going to cheat if he found a question hard. This is the job I've come back into recently and one of my responsibilities is proctoring exams for a military school ... the rules of the exam must be detailed to the students before it begins ... depending on the exam, one of those rules is denial of references ... they're allowed to bring them into class with the rest of their books but those books stay under the students' desks until completion of the exam ... if they're caught cheating then there are penalties ... if you're caught for academic dishonesty in my institution then failing the test is a first-level punishment ... where I work the offending student(s) are brought before a review board and depending on the board findings (it pays to have clean slate at this point) further action will possibly be taken ... adminstrative warnings and/or formal charges will be brought against the student(s), again if it's deemed necessary ... I've stayed out of this discussion because there really isn't much more I can add to what's already been said ... has anything been proven yet? ... are they postponing results of the investigation until after the Super Bowl so there are no distractions? ... if the Patriots are guilty then there has to be penalties in place to match the crime ... it's been a pretty rough year for the NFL and they didn't really need "deflategate" at this point ... I haven't made up my mind as to whether I'm watching the game or not ... it's more about the incident than it is about the game and it's not going away ... Cheers. |
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Post by franko on Jan 26, 2015 15:31:17 GMT -5
if the Patriots are guilty then there has to be penalties in place to match the crime are what are they? that may be part of the question -- the league has no protocol in place for the situation, so they'll just be reacting. no matter what is done it won't be enough/will be too much. I'll say! Goodell must be thinking "what next?". |
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Post by Disp on Feb 1, 2015 22:12:04 GMT -5
Not a big nfl fan, but even I know that Lynch guy is a load. Near the goal line, I give it to him and it's pretty much a sure thing. I can't believe they tried a pass.
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Post by franko on Feb 1, 2015 22:14:21 GMT -5
if that wasn't one of the most bone-headed calls in sports history . . .
guaranteed RD with the beast, and maybe -- maybe Brady takes them close enough for a FG and it goes into OT.
wow.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Feb 1, 2015 22:21:57 GMT -5
Bad call for sure after that crazy catch. Why not hand the ball to Lynch?
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Post by CentreHice on Feb 1, 2015 22:29:48 GMT -5
I couldn't believe it. After that miracle catch....to not try at least ONE run on second down when you're that close.
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Post by blny on Feb 1, 2015 22:30:04 GMT -5
Worst play call ever. I bet the Patriots cut into the Seahawks radio feed and called down that play instead lol. Seriously though, you've got arguably the best running back in football, you're on the one yard line, and have one time out left. Run it. If you don't get in, call a time out. Run it again.
They snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Feb 2, 2015 7:09:38 GMT -5
Bad play calling is what probably did in the Packers ... didn't hurt me any to see Seattle lose ... don't like New England either ... half-time show was okay ... thought Bruno Mars did a better job last year ...
Cheers.
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Post by franko on Feb 2, 2015 7:15:51 GMT -5
Carroll said that he was trying to waste a play (who really called it?). if so, why not have him throw the ball over everyone's head?
@strombo has a great pic but I can't embed it.
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Post by blny on Feb 2, 2015 7:23:42 GMT -5
Bad play calling is what probably did in the Packers ... didn't hurt me any to see Seattle lose ... don't like New England either ... half-time show was okay ... thought Bruno Mars did a better job last year ... Cheers. I guess it can be argued that at least the likes of Katy Perry and Mars are relevant, but they don't interest me in the least. Matter of fact, aside from maybe Tom Petty I can't think of a half time show that I enjoyed. I never looked forward to one. I just don't understand that last Seattle play call. They had plenty of time to run two plays. From the yard line, my first play would have been a Lynch run. My second play might have been too. If I was going to contemplating passing, it would have been play action. If I was going to do a jam play, it would have been set to pass to a receiver heading to the outside and not into the mass of bodies over the middle of the field. The Pats had moved Browner over to cover Matthews, which negated the jump ball plays that were working earlier. Still, maybe you get a match up against Butler if you go to a bunch formation. EVERYTHING about that play, from design to execution, is just out to lunch. |
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Post by BadCompany on Feb 2, 2015 8:30:31 GMT -5
Easily the dumbest play call I have ever seen, and as many are saying perhaps the dumbest play call of all time. I don't care what Pete Carroll said, he was simply trying to protect his offensive coordinator. There was literally no justification for trying that play. None. Sure, if it works you win the Super Bowl, but it was a low percentage play to begin with, and given the game situation an absolutely stupid call no matter what. You could win the Super Bowl on probably a dozen different running plays that your average 15 year old could think up down in the parking lot. ONE YARD. THREE FEET, THREE CHANCES. With one of the best running backs in the game AND one of the most mobile quarterbacks at the helm? Cripes, fake the hand-off to Lynch, and then have Wilson walk in untouched around the end. Or have Lynch dive. Or power to the outside and run over a linebacker. Or, or, or. And you try a crossing route at the goal line? Whaaa??? He said they didn't want to "waste a run play". Huh? How would it be a waste? Even if he is stopped you still got two more downs to run. Just unbelievable. MAYBE I throw it on fourth down, but even then, to throw right at the goal line where everybody is sitting?? Fade pattern corner route, even a high fast ball to the back of the end zone, MAYBE. But a little chuck into the teeth of the defense??
Dumb, dumb, dumb. This will be right up there with Scott Norwood and Bill Buckner, if you ask me.
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Post by jkr on Feb 2, 2015 8:35:16 GMT -5
Carroll said that he was trying to waste a play (who really called it?). if so, why not have him throw the ball over everyone's head? @strombo has a great pic but I can't embed it. nice to see Sherman quiet for a change. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Feb 2, 2015 8:51:02 GMT -5
Matter of fact, aside from maybe Tom Petty I can't think of a half time show that I enjoyed. I never looked forward to one. Paul McCartney maybe ... Cheers. |
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