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Post by NWTHabsFan on Feb 13, 2005 22:10:56 GMT -5
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Post by Bob on Feb 14, 2005 8:31:50 GMT -5
Does that put more pressure on Ribs over the long term. While Plekanec might not have Ribeiro's scoring touch he his a lot tougher and he can skate  |
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Post by TheHabsfan on Feb 14, 2005 9:11:50 GMT -5
I see Plex as more of a third line center. In all honesty, I am not a big Ribs fan, however, he is the better offensive player.
With Bonk in town, the only option for him would be the fourth line, but I can't see them taking Begin out to make room for him. Unless he or Begin play the wing, I think he will be traded soon after the NHL resumes play. It's too bad, cause I think he is a really good player. They can't keep him down forever.
THF
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Post by HabbaDasher on Feb 14, 2005 9:36:35 GMT -5
I don't see why they can't faze in Plekanec on the 4th line.
And there will be injuries to Koivu, Bonk, and Ribeiro at some point.
I'd hang on to an asset like Plekanec and see how far he can develop.
Begin doesn't have to center the 4th line for 82 games.
He can play different positions.
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Post by blaise on Feb 14, 2005 19:07:47 GMT -5
Does that put more pressure on Ribs over the long term. While Plekanec might not have Ribeiro's scoring touch he his a lot tougher and he can skate OK, so he doesn't have Ribeiro's offensive skills, but he's a talented player, and Ribeiro doesn't have some of his skills. If Ribeiro is really fabulous, heT should be able to command a decent return in a trade. I don't care what his fans say, Ribeiro is not destined to be a Canadien fixture for a decade. The Habs really could use a capable D or a wing in his mid-20s who can skate and be hard to dislodge in the crease area. |
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Post by Doc Holliday on Feb 14, 2005 21:44:34 GMT -5
I don't care what his fans say, Ribeiro is not destined to be a Canadien fixture for a decade. Well, Ribeiro detractors kept on saying that he wasn't destined to make the NHL and he had a 65pts season that ranked him 12th in all the NHL centers, 30th overall. Nobody is untouchable but trading a 25 year old, 65pts guy, that's a local favorite based on what Plekanec might do one day in the NHL if he ever makes it wouldn't be a too savvy move IMO. Given the quality of hockey people we have in place, if Plekanec is such a hockey force, he'll get his chance I am sure. |
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Feb 14, 2005 22:29:02 GMT -5
Don't look now, but Pleky just received the AHL All-Star Game MVP award. He scored in regulation and then had a key goal in the shootout for PlanetUSA's win over Canada, despite our Canucks jumping out to a 4-0 lead. Pretty good two day All Star break for our young Czech prospect, especially since the calibre of the AHL All Star event was full of guys would otherwise be playing in the big show. Good news for the Habs!!
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Feb 15, 2005 0:59:42 GMT -5
Don't look now, but Pleky just received the AHL All-Star Game MVP award. He scored in regulation and then had a key goal in the shootout for PlanetUSA's win over Canada, despite our Canucks jumping out to a 4-0 lead. Pretty good two day All Star break for our young Czech prospect, especially since the calibre of the AHL All Star event was full of guys would otherwise be playing in the big show. Good news for the Habs!! Plucky Pleky presents plenty potential! |
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Post by blaise on Feb 16, 2005 0:38:11 GMT -5
Nobody is untouchable but trading a 25 year old, 65pts guy, that's a local favorite based on what Plekanec might do one day in the NHL if he ever makes it wouldn't be a too savvy move IMO. IMO this is a stodgy, standpat strategy. Such conservatism fails to take Ribeiro's limitations and the possibility of strengthening the team in other ways into account. HabsRus posters may have favorites, but let Bob Gainey decide whether it's a savvy move. As for Plekanec, what's to dislike about him? The fact that he's faster than any center on the Habs roster? The fact that he's feisty? He impressed me each time I saw him in the 2002 and 2003 preseasons, and he's had success in the AHL. Sam Pollock looked outside the box in trying to make the Canadiens contenders in the 1970s. He was willing to trade a rising young star like Mickey Redmond because he was banking on still younger prospects in the system. He was also willing to let go of Tony Esposito and Rogatien Vachon. The result: Cup drives in 1971 and 1973 spearheaded by Frank Mahovlich (for whom Redmond was traded) and a host of young players such as Ken Dryden. |
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Post by BadCompany on Feb 16, 2005 10:35:24 GMT -5
IMO this is a stodgy, standpat strategy. Such conservatism fails to take Ribeiro's limitations and the possibility of strengthening the team in other ways into account. Two assumptions in that sentence: One, Ribeiro's "limitations" are so great that his "upside" is nil, and thus by keeping Ribeiro, by being "conservative" and not taking a chance on an NHL-unproven prospect, the Habs would be "standing pat." Its entirely possible that Ribeiro's limitations can be overcome through the improvements in the strengths of his game, resulting in a "net gain" to the team, so to speak. Two, there exists a possibility of strengthening the team in other ways, presumably by trading Ribeiro for more needed assets, and replacing him on the roster with Plekanec. This assumes a market for Ribeiro - not just a market, actually, but a good one, that will improve the team in other areas. But, if Ribeiro is as limited as you continuosly imply, then this cannot be possible, now can it? Unless you throw in a third (2B?) assumption, which would be that some other team sees an inherent value in Ribeiro that is not equal to his real potential, and is thus willing to "lose" a trade to get him. HabsRus posters may have favorites, but let Bob Gainey decide whether it's a savvy move. Indeed, in Bob we trust. So far Bob has given Ribeiro a huge raise, and offered Plekanec up as trade bait. While I don't necessarily read too much into such things - gotta give to get, in other words - if you insist on bringing this down to a Ribeiro vs Plekanec level (a level which, by the way, I do not think exists), then Bob's actions clearly favor one over the other. As for Plekanec, what's to dislike about him? The fact that he's faster than any center on the Habs roster? The fact that he's feisty? He impressed me each time I saw him in the 2002 and 2003 preseasons, and he's had success in the AHL. Nothing to dislike about him at all. Except he happens to be a smallish center on a team full of smallish centers, and whose GM has publicly stated the need to "get bigger down the middle" and whose actions to this point are fully in line with the previous statement (trading for Bonk, drafting Chipchura). Disregard his feistiness, because while feistiness is nice, it won't win you battles against an equally feisty big man. If one assumes (there we go again) that Bonk, by virtue of his size and Gainey's stated ambition to beef up the forwards, is not in competition with Plekanec, that would leave Tomas fighting it out with Ribeiro, Koivu and Begin, for the right to be "the small center." But even if he were to dislodge, for the sake of argument we'll say Ribeiro, though I personally think Begin is in more danger, where would that leave the Habs? Still with the small centers down the middle, and a GM still looking to get bigger. Net gain? Sam Pollock looked outside the box in trying to make the Canadiens contenders in the 1970s. He was willing to trade a rising young star like Mickey Redmond because he was banking on still younger prospects in the system. He was also willing to let go of Tony Esposito and Rogatien Vachon. The result: Cup drives in 1971 and 1973 spearheaded by Frank Mahovlich (for whom Redmond was traded) and a host of young players such as Ken Dryden. One could also argue that by giving a small, weak, slow-skating player second line duties because you have faith in his outstanding vision and offensive potential, would also be "thinking outside the box." After all, conventional wisdom - not to mention internet experts everywhere - wrote little Mikey off years ago, as being too small, too weak, too slow. You gotta be big or fast, preferably both, says conventional wisdom. And here Mikey is, outside the box, racking up a decent set of points on an offensively challenged team, assumedly (again!) with the confidence of his coach and general manager. Who'da thunk that? I'm not a huge Ribeiro fan, but so far he hasn't done anything in my opinion that would warrant an automatic dismissal from the team. |
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Post by seventeen on Feb 16, 2005 21:12:33 GMT -5
No, but the antics are troubling. Let's hope he gets married soon and has a child immediatement as that tends to help people mature. I tend to make snap judgments and I wasn't overpowered by Ribs. I was, quite honestly, surprised at his ability to do some things despite the obvious shortcomings, and simultaneously not surprised at his inability to really do the job when the big boys come out to play (Playoffs). I'm not sold, but am willing to wait a while longer to see if he continues the 'surprising' motif and reduces the unsurprises. (I'm a 7up fan, what can I say?). As a judicious betting man (only when I'm pretty sure), I'd place the odds of Ribs remaining a Hab in 2 years, at about 1 in 3. Unless he goes on a steroid diet (and I don't recommend it), there just isn't enough quickness and/or strength to complement his vision and trickiness.
Having said that, in the times I've seen Plekanec, I think he's played his worst games, cause I haven't been overcome by obvious skills either. Jeeze I'm a tough judge.
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Feb 16, 2005 22:04:31 GMT -5
Let's hope he gets married soon and has a child immediatement as that tends to help people mature. AFAIK Ribeiro has been married for about 3 years and has 2 children. 10-11-2004
...But Bob Gainey isn't hot on the idea
Mathias Brunet La Presse
Mike Ribeiro is looking for a competitive league in North America in case the NHL season is cancelled.
The Canadiens leading scorer last year would even be ready to join the Hamilton Bulldogs in the American League.
"We still have to wait a little to see whether there will be a season, but if the organization asks me to go there, I would accept", he confided Tuesday after a practice at Boisbriand with Joel Bouchard's Caravan.
Ribeiro puts aside the possibility of joining a European team because his wife is waiting to give birth to their second child, but he doesn't want to lose a complete year at this stage of his career, after having finally succeeded in establishing himself in the NHL last year.- texte français original* Excerpted from my profile of Ribeiro a couple of years agoRibeiro could not be called Little Mikey at the 2001 training camp. He had ballooned up to 186lbs. Unfortunately, not much of this new-found mass was muscle. Impossible as it sounds, he was slower than in the past. However, the good intent was noticed and Ribeiro was placed on a training program by the Habs to, yes, slim down.
Both head coach Michel Therrien and assistant Roland Melanson remarked on his improved work ethic, and surmised that Ribeiro's having become a first-time father in the off season was helping him mature. This observation was reinforced by Little Mikey himself in an interview during camp, when he said, "Now I'm not just playing for myself, I'm working for the three of us." |
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Post by blaise on Feb 16, 2005 22:56:56 GMT -5
Of course! Playing at 186 makes him just as fast as Plekanec.
Seriously, I like speed, an up-tempo game. That's why I became a Habs fan in the first place. Ribeiro is hardly a Flying Frenchman.
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Post by PTH on Feb 16, 2005 23:02:44 GMT -5
Such conservatism fails to take Ribeiro's limitations and the possibility of strengthening the team in other ways into account.... As for Plekanec, what's to dislike about him? The fact that he's faster than any center on the Habs roster? The fact that he's feisty? He impressed me each time I saw him in the 2002 and 2003 preseasons, and he's had success in the AHL. Ahh, prospectitis, hadn't seen much of that in a while. Prospectitis: The annoying habit that when we haven't seen a prospect reach his full potential, that he's a sure bet to do so. Can also be said: Habit of assuming that a prospect can be rated according to what his maximum upside is, rather than what his most likely potential is. Prospectitis led to the trading of Schneider and Desjardins because we had both Brisebois and Kiprusoff in the works. |
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Post by seventeen on Feb 18, 2005 1:15:11 GMT -5
AFAIK Ribeiro has been married for about 3 years and has 2 children. Whoa! Poke me in the eye with a fork. Really?! How come he still acts like he does? Hasn't he read the husband's manual? And two kids!? Sure glad I'm not their teacher. Actually, the kids could be just fine. Can't blithely use that 'sins of the father' biz. |
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Feb 18, 2005 4:15:37 GMT -5
Whoa! Poke me in the eye with a fork. Really?! How come he still acts like he does? Hasn't he read the husband's manual? And two kids!? Sure glad I'm not their teacher. Actually, the kids could be just fine. Can't blithely use that 'sins of the father' biz. What do you mean? There's nothing wrong with Ribeiro's attitude. Gainey gave him a hefty raise (almost doubling his salary). Juilen sees him as a leader on the team. He's progressed from the Young Guns Game to leading his club in scoring. Hasn't done anything like dropping his pants in front of a hostile enemy crowd to adjust his cup. He's been a model citizen: Choosing to stay close to home as his wife came to term with their second child; playing hockey for free to raise money for children's charities in the meantime rather than skedaddling to Europe. Offered to play in Hamilton. A true bad egg he is. |
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Post by blaise on Feb 18, 2005 9:35:36 GMT -5
Ahh, prospectitis, hadn't seen much of that in a while. Prospectitis: The annoying habit that when we haven't seen a prospect reach his full potential, that he's a sure bet to do so. Can also be said: Habit of assuming that a prospect can be rated according to what his maximum upside is, rather than what his most likely potential is. Prospectitis led to the trading of Schneider and Desjardins because we had both Brisebois and Kiprusoff in the works. No sir! Schneider was traded to bring in Turgeon and Malakhov. Malakhov may have disappointed, but he had far more talent than Schneider. Desjardins was traded for Recchi, a future HOF player. The prospects (Brisebois and Kiprusoff) were irrelevant. Your train of thought seems to lead to the conclusion that trading Garon was based on prospectitis (Danis). |
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Post by PTH on Mar 4, 2005 19:23:24 GMT -5
No sir! Schneider was traded to bring in Turgeon and Malakhov. Malakhov may have disappointed, but he had far more talent than Schneider. Desjardins was traded for Recchi, a future HOF player. The prospects (Brisebois and Kiprusoff) were irrelevant. That's not what the GM was saying when interviewed later on that day... Probably, but in this case it's for a secondary role so tolerable, IMO. You have to give kids a chance somewhere along the line, after all. Trading Theo thinking that Garon could hang in there until Danis proved himself the Second Coming would have been a better example, had it happened. |
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Post by blaise on Mar 4, 2005 19:40:54 GMT -5
Face it, Garon would have been making too much money as a backup, if not now then in a season or two (based on pre-lockout trends). For 20 games you would get more bang for the buck out of Danis. ;D
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