|
|
Post by seventeen on Jul 19, 2015 22:52:37 GMT -5
... if the Tories do lose, though, I suspect Stephen Harper will step down ... I pray for that. I've lit votive candles (in my mind at least). Harper's not a conservative, he's a fundamentalist. I truly wish the conservatives would take their party back. I can handle, despite their inevitable faux pas', any centrist government be it Liberal or Conservative. I can't stomach someone stuffing their extremist values down my throat. I like the NDP social ideals, but don't trust them to look after the chequebook at all. If anyone needs an Idiot's guide to Economics it's the NDP. And, eventually, in the long run, we can only hope any party simply doesn't screw it up. The party system in itself is flawed, I fear. Sigh. |
|
|
|
Post by franko on Jul 19, 2015 23:12:36 GMT -5
Harper's not a conservative, he's a fundamentalist. I'm no Harper cheerleader . . . but what do you mean by fundamentalist? |
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jul 20, 2015 7:50:57 GMT -5
... if the Tories do lose, though, I suspect Stephen Harper will step down ... I pray for that. I've lit votive candles (in my mind at least). Harper's not a conservative, he's a fundamentalist. I truly wish the conservatives would take their party back. I can handle, despite their inevitable faux pas', any centrist government be it Liberal or Conservative. I can't stomach someone stuffing their extremist values down my throat. I like the NDP social ideals, but don't trust them to look after the chequebook at all. If anyone needs an Idiot's guide to Economics it's the NDP. And, eventually, in the long run, we can only hope any party simply doesn't screw it up. The party system in itself is flawed, I fear. Sigh. I liken Harper to more as an autocrat than anything else ... the biggest hits against Harper, IMO, are; a. putting all of our eggs in the same basket by making us an oil-based economny, and b. turning the parliamentary debate process into a joke ... You're right about the NDP ... they certainly mean well but they've near-bankrupted every budget they've had their hands on ... not a good track record in the provinces for sure ... and, I'm sorry to say, I just don't trust Justin Trudeau ... he's all about "buying the world a coke" and hoping it works out ... Cheers. |
|
|
|
Post by franko on Jul 20, 2015 8:22:26 GMT -5
I liken Harper to more as an autocrat than anything else ... well, at least you haven't called him a fascist or Hitler like some of his detractors have. I think that he had to do that in the beginning, to stomp keep the Reformers under control. however, he just hasn't let it go. true, though he has also worked on new trade agreements, which have not yet come to fruition. I wish he would do away with the marketing boards, but that won't happen -- too many votes to lose. I'll say! I think this goes back to control -- never give a clear answer -- you may have to back it up sometime. I think the anti-Mulcair ads must be in the can and the Conservatives are waiting for the writ to drop before starting to play them. They'll call him a separatist in TROC focusing on 50% plus 1, and they'll call him a federalist in Quebec. the debate between Mulcair and Harper should be good -- Mulcair will be in his element. will Harper get under his skin and get his fiery side going? Will Mulcair actually provoke some emotion from Harper? |
|
|
|
Post by Lord Bebop on Jul 20, 2015 9:09:38 GMT -5
I pray for that. I've lit votive candles (in my mind at least). Harper's not a conservative, he's a fundamentalist. I truly wish the conservatives would take their party back. I can handle, despite their inevitable faux pas', any centrist government be it Liberal or Conservative. I can't stomach someone stuffing their extremist values down my throat. I like the NDP social ideals, but don't trust them to look after the chequebook at all. If anyone needs an Idiot's guide to Economics it's the NDP. And, eventually, in the long run, we can only hope any party simply doesn't screw it up. The party system in itself is flawed, I fear. Sigh. I liken Harper to more as an autocrat than anything else ... the biggest hits against Harper, IMO, are; a. putting all of our eggs in the same basket by making us an oil-based economny, and b. turning the parliamentary debate process into a joke ... You're right about the NDP ... they certainly mean well but they've near-bankrupted every budget they've had their hands on ... not a good track record in the provinces for sure ... and, I'm sorry to say, I just don't trust Justin Trudeau ... he's all about "buying the world a coke" and hoping it works out ... Cheers. Just looked up and I don't think the conservatives are doing a great job with the budget.. This is from a article back in 2013... So how much worst could NDP do? Honest question really .. I'm not to familiar with the NDP's promises •The federal debt in the fiscal year 1996-97 was $562.9-billion. By the time the Liberals left office in 2006, it was reduced to $481.5-billion • In contrast, by the year 2014-15, the Conservatives will have added $176,400,000,000 to the national debt. |
|
|
|
Post by franko on Jul 20, 2015 9:36:51 GMT -5
•The federal debt in the fiscal year 1996-97 was $562.9-billion. By the time the Liberals left office in 2006, it was reduced to $481.5-billion • In contrast, by the year 2014-15, the Conservatives will have added $176,400,000,000 to the national debt. that is the price they paid for staying in power. not sure that it was a good move in the end, politically or policy-wise. the recession bit them big time. they'da been fine if they hadn't lowered the GST, but they made the promise and kept it (good for them, bad for them: good for keeping the promise, bad promise to make -- they shoulda at least held off with the second percentage point -- they could have used the money to stay in the black). then, they had to do something (or give the appearance of doing something) . . . and the Liberals and the NDP were clamoring for the then-minority Conservative government to do something so they did -- they came up with their inaction plan, which in the end seems to me more hiring of federal employees which they then laid off. this government has made some mistakes! would the Liberals or NDP have done any better? who knows, but it doesn't matter -- they're sitting pretty being able to complain and say that they'd have done things differently -- or better. and who is to say they wouldn't have? |
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jul 20, 2015 9:53:21 GMT -5
I think the anti-Mulcair ads must be in the can and the Conservatives are waiting for the writ to drop before starting to play them. They'll call him a separatist in TROC focusing on 50% plus 1, and they'll call him a federalist in Quebec. I think the reemergence of Gilles Duceppe might have influenced Mulcair's strategy in Quebec ... Duceppe is a creditable/recognizable leader who will probably win back some seats at the expense of the NDP and I think there's reason for concern if I'm Mulcair ... An emotional PM? ... not Harper's way, me thinks ... I find him a very polished debater and public speaker ... I remember when he addressed the Israeli government and he was being bombarded by Palestinian filibusters ... he remained cool, calm throughout the heckling and he didn't miss a beat in his speech ... the hecklers eventually stormed out of the room and Harper continued his oration as if nothing happened ... conversely, while Mulcair is an excellent debater, I find he gets emotional to the point where he tends to blurt ... not a good trait to have at any time, let alone during parliamentary debates ... interesting but there doesn't seem to be a lot of media attention being given to Trudeau ... at least not right now, anyway ... Cheers. |
|
|
|
Post by Lord Bebop on Jul 20, 2015 10:44:19 GMT -5
For a bunch of hockey guys you guys are well spoken when it comes to politics.. I will be following your discussions In this thread
|
|
|
|
Post by franko on Jul 20, 2015 10:53:03 GMT -5
I think the reemergence of Gilles Duceppe might have influenced Mulcair's strategy in Quebec ... Duceppe is a creditable/recognizable leader who will probably win back some seats at the expense of the NDP and I think there's reason for concern if I'm Mulcair ... big time, Dis, big time . . . which plays well into Harper's hand . . . if the Bloc can steal win some seats back in Quebec it will make it more difficult for Mulcair to form a government, even a minority. they may pick up a few seats from the Liberals -- or not; the Liberals may actually win a few back from the NDP, so I think a trade-off there. the NDP has to make up ground/take a number of Conservative seats . . . strategic voting will help, but in the end I think that too many people will hold their nose and stick with the Conservatives (the devil that you hate but know) or with the Liberals -- the fight for centre-left. An emotional PM? ... not Harper's way, me thinks ... I find him a very polished debater and public speaker ... I remember when he addressed the Israeli government and he was being bombarded by Palestinian filibusters ... he remained cool, calm throughout the heckling and he didn't miss a beat in his speech ... the hecklers eventually stormed out of the room and Harper continued his oration as if nothing happened ... conversely, while Mulcair is an excellent debater, I find he gets emotional to the point where he tends to blurt ... not a good trait to have at any time, let alone during parliamentary debates ... interesting but there doesn't seem to be a lot of media attention being given to Trudeau ... at least not right now, anyway ... I agree on Harper's lack of emotion stoicism; Mulcair will have a difficult time finding a chink in his armour. otoh, Mulcair does have that emotion that he will have to keep in check. it'll be fun. I may actually pay attention to some of the non-consortium debates. sorry, Elizabeth, but I'm really not interested in you in a 4 against 1 gang-up where there is a lot of yelling and rhetoric but not many answers. Harper v Mulcair, Mulcair v Trudeau, Trudeau v Harper . . . those will be interesting. Trudeau needs to survive this time . . . merely survive. an actual election campaign under his belt will help get him past the "good looks category". next election his ads can say "well now I'm ready!". |
|
|
|
Post by franko on Jul 20, 2015 10:54:35 GMT -5
For a bunch of hockey guys you guys are well spoken when it comes to politics.. I will be following your discussions In this thread don't forget, in Quebec the Habs come under the titles of politics and religion! we can go on forever with these on the board.  |
|
|
|
Post by Lord Bebop on Jul 20, 2015 11:17:56 GMT -5
If Harper wins a minority... What's the chance of the NDP and Liberals forming a government... I think that's on the table last I heard??
|
|
|
|
Post by Lord Bebop on Jul 20, 2015 11:18:24 GMT -5
Double post
|
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Jul 20, 2015 11:42:05 GMT -5
Harper's not a conservative, he's a fundamentalist. I'm no Harper cheerleader . . . but what do you mean by fundamentalist? He doesn't like change He reminds me so much of those fathers who rule with an iron fist and end up alienating all his children except those who are exactly like him. That attitude ruins lives. I also question his opinion of women. Are there any women holding important positions in cabinet? Sorry, I don't follow it that closely but it seems the women he likes to have around him are not that bright and basically 'yes' women. (Much like most of the men around him are). He is an extreme control freak and can't possibly juggle all the balls a leader has to, on his own. His former finance minister was his own man but I can't think of anyone else I'd trust to make a logical decision. Perhaps fundamentalist isn't the right description but the man has so few true leadership qualities that I find him a real danger to the country. |
|
|
|
Post by franko on Jul 20, 2015 12:08:48 GMT -5
If Harper wins a minority... What's the chance of the NDP and Liberals forming a government... I think that's on the table last I heard?? that's a good question. the party with the most seats will have the first opportunity to lead the government. The Governor General will ask the leader if he (sorry, Elizabeth) thinks he will have the confidence of the house. who ever it is will say "yes" and have a few months of grace to try to convince another party to back them. if the Conservatives win a minority, I think they'll say yes, dilly-dally a bit, Harper will resign, a leadership convention will be called, the new leader will bring in a budget that will fail, and they'll try for another election -- unless they can convince the Liberals to support them for a bit (while they all scramble to re-fill the coffers -- no one will want another election called). at that time (I think) the Governor General may call the leader of the next party (right now looking at the NDP) to see if they can form a government 9 I think!I[/i] this is how it goes). Mulcair will say yes and go from there. an official coalition is not needed -- nor, I think, wanted. coalition will lead to more talk of merger, and the core NDPers will not want that (Liberals are too mushy-middle) and the core Liberals will not want that (NDP is too left-wing extremist). all that to say . . . perhaps, but not necessary. the NDP (the Liberals if they have more seats) can agree with budgetary concerns; they don't need to officially form a coalition government if they just agree. |
|
|
|
Post by franko on Jul 20, 2015 12:10:42 GMT -5
I'm no Harper cheerleader . . . but what do you mean by fundamentalist? He doesn't like change He reminds me so much of those fathers who rule with an iron fist and end up alienating all his children except those who are exactly like him. That attitude ruins lives. I also question his opinion of women. Are there any women holding important positions in cabinet? Sorry, I don't follow it that closely but it seems the women he likes to have around him are not that bright and basically 'yes' women. (Much like most of the men around him are). He is an extreme control freak and can't possibly juggle all the balls a leader has to, on his own. His former finance minister was his own man but I can't think of anyone else I'd trust to make a logical decision. Perhaps fundamentalist isn't the right description but the man has so few true leadership qualities that I find him a real danger to the country. thanks, 17. I think that there are strong women in the cabinet, but that their strength is held back -- much like the men. control freak -- for sure. |
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jul 20, 2015 12:20:14 GMT -5
For a bunch of hockey guys you guys are well spoken when it comes to politics.. I will be following your discussions In this thread Wait until everyone starts contributing, JJ ... there's a lot of members who enjoy discussing politics and I'm hoping that well of collective knowledge comes to the surface the closer we get to the election ... I consider myself a moderate-right kind of person, but that said I haven't made up my mind on where I'm going with my vote just yet ... Trudeau, neyt ... I really like 17's opinion on the NDP ... you know, some of their initiatives would be very welcome, but at the same time don't give them a blank cheque ... their track record in the provinces is not good and giving them the country to run would be taking a big chance ... I can't tell you any percentages, but there seems to be a lot of people willing to take that chance now ... a minority NDP goverment could be held in check, though that would apply to any minority government ... as for the Tories, well, the only one I keep hear about in that party nowadays is Harper ... the more I think of him, the more I think he'd be better suited to running a country like the USA ... Obama and Harper have different approaches to politics, but they both hold veto powers and they both like using them ... where the president has veto powers as part of his office, Harper does not, so he (mis)uses parliamentary procedures to veto what he doesn't like ... what I mean is, if a debate is going against him, and he has a majority, he simply calls his party to chambers which abruptly ends any debate whatsoever ... when he had a minority, he didn't bat an eye when proroguing government until the issue went away away, thus wiping the slate clean ... yeah, come to think of it, he might make an excellent president ... and that's not a good thing if you're the PM of Canada ... I'll take Franko's suggestion a bit further in that it might be a good idea holding your nose before heading to the ballet box regardless who you vote for ... Cheers. |
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jul 20, 2015 13:01:41 GMT -5
If Harper wins a minority... What's the chance of the NDP and Liberals forming a government... I think that's on the table last I heard?? I think announcing the forming a coalition government actually worked against the opposition parties ... I can't speak for anyone else, but I remember being pissed off having to back to the polls ... it seemed we were doing this all the time and, honestly, I had had enough ... maybe folks felt the same way, I don't know, but I really believe it was talk of a coalition that gave the Tories their majority ... now, that's not to say that might happen again with a Tory minority ... folks may very well support a coalition if it means removing Harper ... that's how strong a sentiment I'm getting, anyway ... Cheers. |
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Jul 20, 2015 13:15:13 GMT -5
He doesn't like change He reminds me so much of those fathers who rule with an iron fist and end up alienating all his children except those who are exactly like him. That attitude ruins lives. I also question his opinion of women. Are there any women holding important positions in cabinet? Sorry, I don't follow it that closely but it seems the women he likes to have around him are not that bright and basically 'yes' women. (Much like most of the men around him are). He is an extreme control freak and can't possibly juggle all the balls a leader has to, on his own. His former finance minister was his own man but I can't think of anyone else I'd trust to make a logical decision. Perhaps fundamentalist isn't the right description but the man has so few true leadership qualities that I find him a real danger to the country. thanks, 17. I think that there are strong women in the cabinet, but that their strength is held back -- much like the men. control freak -- for sure. Like I said, I don't know enough about the rest of the conservative caucus except for a few guys who have to be front and centre. I don't know a lot about them either, but none of them appear to be a counterweight to Harper. The rest of them time, they gain notoriety because they've said something really silly (like that last MP who said women aren't in positions of power because they choose not to apply for them). I sure hope there are some strong people in the background who have been working to replace Harper. If he does have to step down, is there a black hole of quality candidates to replace him? That kind of head usually ensure that (like Stalin knocking off his officer corps, just before being attacked by Hitler) there is no one strong enough to replace him. You simply can't be led by weak leaders. They cause so much trouble. You don't have to look the part either. I happen to think Lester Pearson was one of the better PM's we've had and he certainly didn't "Look" the part. It's unfortunate voters are swayed by tall, 'good looking' people. It might be an evolutionary trait, but it can result in us selecting a very wrong person for such an important role. PS. Harper may be tallish, but he's hardly good looking. More of a nerdy type IMO. |
|
|
|
Post by franko on Jul 20, 2015 13:26:21 GMT -5
If Harper wins a minority... What's the chance of the NDP and Liberals forming a government... I think that's on the table last I heard?? I think announcing the forming a coalition government actually worked against the opposition parties ... I can't speak for anyone else, but I remember being pissed off having to back to the polls ... it seemed we were doing this all the time and, honestly, I had had enough ... maybe folks felt the same way, I don't know, but I really believe it was talk of a coalition that gave the Tories their majority ... now, that's not to say that might happen again with a Tory minority ... folks may very well support a coalition if it means removing Harper ... that's how strong a sentiment I'm getting, anyway ... Cheers. I don't think that a coalition government will be necessary. the Bloc isn't strong enough (I don't think -- they'll will a few more seats than last time but not enough to hold the balance of power), so whoever wins of the NDP and Liberals will be able to talk the other into voting with them. not a true coalition government with the third party having seats in cabinet; a minority government working with others. (hey, can you tell it's my first office day after holidays? just catching up -- tomorrow is a "work work" day . . . let me enjoy this will you? ) |
|
|
|
Post by franko on Jul 20, 2015 13:34:49 GMT -5
Like I said, I don't know enough about the rest of the conservative caucus except for a few guys who have to be front and centre. I don't know a lot about them either, but none of them appear to be a counterweight to Harper. The rest of them time, they gain notoriety because they've said something really silly (like that last MP who said women aren't in positions of power because they choose not to apply for them). I think that's why Harper is such a control freak -- he's in constant damage control mode. I'm sure he just wants the minions to shut up -- doesn't want to provide ammunition to the opposition. thumb down on those who would bring up the abortion or gay marriage issue. but gets into trouble with the "against everything" attitude. wonder if his elementary report card said "does not get along with others" every year. I think that Jason Kenney has been in campaign mode for the past couple of years. whether he is a good replacement or not is another matter -- I don't know enough about him. it really is "the Harper Conservatives". this will be his last election regardless, can't see him continuing. hence the "just not ready" commercials |
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jul 20, 2015 13:51:26 GMT -5
I liken Harper to more as an autocrat than anything else ... the biggest hits against Harper, IMO, are; a. putting all of our eggs in the same basket by making us an oil-based economny, and b. turning the parliamentary debate process into a joke ... You're right about the NDP ... they certainly mean well but they've near-bankrupted every budget they've had their hands on ... not a good track record in the provinces for sure ... and, I'm sorry to say, I just don't trust Justin Trudeau ... he's all about "buying the world a coke" and hoping it works out ... Cheers. Just looked up and I don't think the conservatives are doing a great job with the budget.. This is from a article back in 2013... So how much worst could NDP do? Honest question really .. I'm not to familiar with the NDP's promises •The federal debt in the fiscal year 1996-97 was $562.9-billion. By the time the Liberals left office in 2006, it was reduced to $481.5-billion • In contrast, by the year 2014-15, the Conservatives will have added $176,400,000,000 to the national debt. I can only add to what Franko said, JJ ... one of the Republican issues against Obama is that he's ran up the debt higher than any president in history (increase in percentage of debt still belongs to GW Bush) ... I think he authorized those bailout funds ($700 billion in 2008) to prevent a large chunk of world's markets from spiraling into oblivion (possibly taking my life savings with them) ... what was done with those funds is another thread ... Harper had to deal with the 2008 fiscal meltdown, as well, and he did a pretty good job doing that ... I haven't researched it enough, but on the surface, at least, I think these international free-trade deals he's been making will lessen the impact of another meltdown if/when that happens, though I doubt he'll still be around in politics to get any credit for them ... have to read more on that ... Cheers. |
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jul 20, 2015 13:59:35 GMT -5
next election his ads can say "well now I'm ready!". That might be a tough one for the Tories ... I can see it in their faces next time around ... just not focusing on "he's not ready" will be the doom of them in that, if-they're-not-mentioning-it-then-he-must-be-ready ... on the other side of the coin, I can see this being the next Liberal election motto ... Cheers. |
|
|
|
Post by Polarice on Jul 20, 2015 14:27:10 GMT -5
I grew up with Peter MacKay and his father Elmer. Elmer is a political legend in Nova Scotia. Elmer was our MP from 71 to 93, he stepped down briefly in 1983 so Brian Mulroney could run in his riding so he could run for PM. Peter took over in the late 90's. I expected Peter to stay and take over for Harper if Harper lost this election. Not sure what happened, I haven't talked to him in almost a year. I'm sure I'll see him when I go home for Xmas this year.
|
|
|
|
Post by franko on Jul 20, 2015 15:07:56 GMT -5
next election his ads can say "well now I'm ready!". That might be a tough one for the Tories ... I can see it in their faces next time around ... just not focusing on "he's not ready" will be the doom of them in that, if-they're-not-mentioning-it-then-he-must-be-ready ... on the other side of the coin, I can see this being the next Liberal election motto ... Cheers. I honestly think that the Conservatives expect to win this one and lose the next one. you can't stay in forever (though at times it seemed as if the Liberals would); let whoever take over for a short term and then find a strong leader . . . good luck on that one, though; I think Harper chased them all away. Reap, I think that MacKay is too red for the western Conservatives . . . but we'll see. |
|
|
|
Post by Skilly on Jul 21, 2015 19:34:37 GMT -5
We rank 51st in the world in freedom of information and Harper has adopted the policy now of not letting reporters question him. When reporters do get a chance to ask questions, he will only take a maximum of 2 questions, and more often then not, Harper has cherry picked the questions. That's not exactly the sign of a democratic nation ....
To say Harper has turned the parliamentary process, especially inside the House of Commons, into a joke is the understatement of the millenium.
|
|
|
|
Post by franko on Jul 21, 2015 20:03:29 GMT -5
Harper doesn't answer questions.
Mulcair doesn't answer the questions that are asked of him.
Trudeau answers questions that aren't asked him.
and
May just wants someone to pay attention to her and ask her a question -- any question -- PLEASE!
|
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jul 22, 2015 19:07:55 GMT -5
Harper doesn't answer questions. Mulcair doesn't answer the questions that are asked of him. Trudeau answers questions that aren't asked him. and May just wants someone to pay attention to her and ask her a question -- any question -- PLEASE!Bang on, man ... if anyone wants to know which party the most agree with, then fill out this questionnaire ... Canada Election Quiz ... Cheers. |
|
|
|
Post by Polarice on Jul 22, 2015 20:35:58 GMT -5
I got Liberal!!  |
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jul 22, 2015 22:01:26 GMT -5
That's what I got Reap ... in order of responses I favour; Liberals, NDP, Green, Conservative ... I was surprised at the result ... Trudeau wants to "claw back" tax-free savings accounts but he hasn't defined "claw back" very well ... I don't like the proposed Liberal "Carbon Pricing" policy at all ... it's just another federal tax that Trudeau massaged out with the help of Ont Premier, Kathleen Wynne ... imagine those two making decisions for the country ... and people are afraid of Harper ... Bill C51 was a one of the hard ones for me ... I follow a few political journalists on Twitter ... one suggested that a coalition headed by Mulcair would make a good government ...
|
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Jul 23, 2015 11:38:21 GMT -5
CBC released a story this morning from a source in the Foreign Affairs dept. Bureaucrats have been ordered to provide the minister with 3 terrorism related stories a day. It seems that's Harper's primary, if not only, strategy to retain power. Scare the electorate. The Muslims are coming, the Muslims are coming! Lock up your women and children.
Fear is a terrible form of leadership.
|
|
