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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jul 10, 2015 20:27:22 GMT -5
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Post by PTH on Jul 10, 2015 20:36:16 GMT -5
And to think that after the other trades (especially Saad) I expected the Hawks would be able to hang onto the rest of their core.
There goes another option for the Habs for all those who are hoping for a gamble for the next couple of seasons.
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Post by seventeen on Jul 10, 2015 21:10:26 GMT -5
Very cheap deal. Bowman didn't get anywhere near his initial demands. Too bad we missed out. So does Armstrong now trade Sharp to us for Gilbert?
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jul 10, 2015 21:31:21 GMT -5
Very cheap deal. Bowman didn't get anywhere near his initial demands. Too bad we missed out. So does Armstrong now trade Sharp to us for Gilbert? Chicago removed Patrick Sharpe's $5.9 million salary and they took $4.2 million in return, so in that way they saved ... Dallas gets another aging veteran who might benefit playing with Tyler Seguin or Jason Spezza ... two players we don't have in Montreal ... Stephen Johns hasn't made it to the show just yet, but he's a specimen at 6'4", 233 lbs ... Cheers. |
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Post by seventeen on Jul 10, 2015 23:06:04 GMT -5
Stephen Johns and Ryan Garbutt are those guys who end up in trivia contests - "Who were the other pieces in the Patrick Sharp trade for Trevor Daley?" Very unlikely either will have an impact on the NHL club. Johns is still 23, but he's an NCAA guy who played 4 ok years in college. The occasional guy makes it (Pateryn), but the odds aren't great. You have to be impressive in college to have a chance. I'm not sure Johns fits that description.
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Post by jkr on Jul 11, 2015 7:59:39 GMT -5
Garbutt is a a-hole. He's the guy who left Weaver concussed with a hit from behind and was suspended for slew footing someone in Winnipeg.
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Post by Skilly on Jul 11, 2015 10:19:59 GMT -5
If Chicago was looking for a defenseman for Sharp, then we had no comparable for Daley ....a 31 yr old, 35+pts, defenseman with a cap hit under 4 million.
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Post by blny on Jul 11, 2015 10:44:57 GMT -5
Not sure about that. Dallas fans are glad to be rid of Daley. Yes, he can score, but he's a bigger defensive liability than Souray ever was. The prevailing thought is that this move is addition by subtraction.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Jul 11, 2015 10:52:04 GMT -5
That does not seem like a very big price tag for Sharp. Clearly nowhere near what was being reported on July 1st. Sellers are in tough right now.
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Post by blny on Jul 11, 2015 12:08:07 GMT -5
That does not seem like a very big price tag for Sharp. Clearly nowhere near what was being reported on July 1st. Sellers are in tough right now. Definitely a buyers market. Price started at 3 pieces (1st this year, A prospect, and another pick). By the draft it was pretty clear the price was dropping. By UFA day it was clear that Sharp wasn't going to fetch a lot. Hawks went got quantity over quality. Daley can slot into the second pair, and be sheltered by Keith and Seabrook. He's not anywhere near as good defensively as Oduya though. Johnny is likely gone as a result of this trade. I'd be surprised if Garbutt played much at all. Hawks had Carcillo this year, and he was rarely in the lineup. Chicago didn't even get as much cap relief as they would have liked. |
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Post by seventeen on Jul 11, 2015 12:09:07 GMT -5
If Chicago was looking for a defenseman for Sharp, then we had no comparable for Daley ....a 31 yr old, 35+pts, defenseman with a cap hit under 4 million. Frankly, Skilly, I think Gilbert is a better Dman than Daley. It's hard to compare points because Gilbert was rarely used in offensive situations, and we certainly did not have three scorers like Seguin, Benn and Spezza. I wonder how many of Daley's points were second hand ones. His stats show he had 6 PP goals, so he was used on the PP for sure. He also had a shooting percentage of 14.2 last year, over double his career average. Think he can do that again next year? On the face of it, Daley's offensive stats last year were an outlier. I think we could have dangled Gilbert (may even have done so) and Chicago would have ended up with a better defenseman, at a cheaper salary. Maybe Bowman looked at it differently, or we didn't offer Gilbert. Only the Berg knows. |
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Post by Lord Bebop on Jul 12, 2015 15:18:31 GMT -5
If Chicago was looking for a defenseman for Sharp, then we had no comparable for Daley ....a 31 yr old, 35+pts, defenseman with a cap hit under 4 million. Frankly, Skilly, I think Gilbert is a better Dman than Daley. It's hard to compare points because Gilbert was rarely used in offensive situations, and we certainly did not have three scorers like Seguin, Benn and Spezza. I wonder how many of Daley's points were second hand ones. His stats show he had 6 PP goals, so he was used on the PP for sure. He also had a shooting percentage of 14.2 last year, over double his career average. Think he can do that again next year? On the face of it, Daley's offensive stats last year were an outlier. I think we could have dangled Gilbert (may even have done so) and Chicago would have ended up with a better defenseman, at a cheaper salary. Maybe Bowman looked at it differently, or we didn't offer Gilbert. Only the Berg knows. Yeah guess we were not that interested in Sharp despite being the front runner in the rumors. Pretty sure we could of beat that. So we will be going into training camp with youth I guess. Andrighetto, Hudon, Thomas, Carr , Holloway, Mccarron and Scherbak. I think we need a RWer and a LWer outta that group. Kinda glad we didn't add Sharps $6 million to the cap. Bit of a gamble going with youth... I'm guessing Bergeron has a good grasp on who is ready for the big club |
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Post by Disp on Jul 12, 2015 16:42:31 GMT -5
Daley is a good dman, much better than Gilbert. Our closest equivalent would be Petry.
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Post by seventeen on Jul 12, 2015 17:51:49 GMT -5
I'm not sure how you come to that conclusion. On a numbers basis, Gilbert seems to have better offensive numbers. It's hard to compare defense because of the differing teams, coaches, systems etc. I don't recall Daley having any reputation as a good defensive defensemen, though. Daley was a second round pick in a (hindsight is perfect) weak 2002 draft. The top 5 picks were Rick Nash, Kari Lehotonen, Jay Bouwmeester, Joni Pitkanen and Ryan Whitney. It didn't get better from there, either.
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Post by Skilly on Jul 12, 2015 19:18:43 GMT -5
Daley has been a positive player in 7 of the last 8 seasons.
The main difference in Daley and Gilbert, is that Daley is seen as a top four d man who can give you top pairing minutes. Gilbert is seen as a third pairing d man, who you need to shelter.
Gilbert's offensive numbers are better than Petry's too, so why isn't he ahead of Petry on our depth chart? Petry , who I think is hugely over rated, is a career -68. Now before people start telling me that Edmonton's the reason for that, I'll remind you that Petry was still a minus player on the Jennings Winning Montreal Canadiens, but Tom Gilbert was a positive player ....
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Post by seventeen on Jul 13, 2015 0:14:12 GMT -5
The main difference in Daley and Gilbert, is that Daley is seen as a top four d man who can give you top pairing minutes. Gilbert is seen as a third pairing d man, who you need to shelter. Well, I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Gilbert's a 3rd pairing guy with Montreal because PK and Petry are ahead of him. Let's see, who does Dallas have at right defense...? John Klingberg. Ok, probably a second pairing guy at this stage of his career and definitely ahead of Gilbert. Then there's ......, hhmmm.. and a bunch of other guys. Dare I say that Gilbert would be a 2nd pairing guy in Dallas? Now perhaps Daley is seen as that, because he hasn't played on a team with a bunch of good defensemen. It would be enlightening to see his advanced stats, but I have no idea where those are. That graph that shows certain characteristics for 1st pair through 3rd pairing guys would be useful. I just don't see a lot of difference between Daley and Gilbert and if any, probably with Gilbert slightly ahead. Perhaps the games I've seen Daley play weren't his best, but he's not impressed me. Regarding your comment about Daley being a plus player in 7 of the last 8 years, absolutely true. If, however you average out his +/- in the years he's been in the NHL, it comes out at + 1.2 per year. Not a figure that's going to make me open my Moet and Chandon. I just wonder if with his -13 last year, he really took a drop down the effectiveness ladder and Nill realizes it. Anyway, I will disagree with you heartily on the Gilbert/Petry comparison. Petry looks to me to be far and away a better dman than Gilbert. PS. I don't hate Gilbert and I don't 'love' him. He had good and bad game with us last year, more good than bad. I think he was unjustly criticized a lot because expectations were higher than they should have been. He's a pretty good 5th dman who can play the 4 slot on occasion. I suspect Bowman sees more upside in Daley than Gilbert. Daley's a better skater than Gilbert and on a fast paced team, that could be very important. There's no way I'd give up Petry for Sharp, so I don't think there was a way to adjust the trade that worked for Chicago or Montreal, better than the one that turned out. Oh well. Go Nikita! |
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Post by Polarice on Jul 13, 2015 8:39:51 GMT -5
I'm not sure how you come to that conclusion. On a numbers basis, Gilbert seems to have better offensive numbers. It's hard to compare defense because of the differing teams, coaches, systems etc. I don't recall Daley having any reputation as a good defensive defensemen, though. Daley was a second round pick in a (hindsight is perfect) weak 2002 draft. The top 5 picks were Rick Nash, Kari Lehotonen, Jay Bouwmeester, Joni Pitkanen and Ryan Whitney. It didn't get better from there, either. This!! The best return we could ever expect from Gilbert would be a 4th or 5th round pick, little on Sharp. |
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Post by seventeen on Jul 13, 2015 13:59:23 GMT -5
Gilbert was also drafted in that 2002 draft.  Fourth round by Colorado. |
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