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Post by Cranky on Nov 13, 2015 21:52:24 GMT -5
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Post by CentreHice on Nov 14, 2015 8:09:24 GMT -5
Anybody who wants to talk seriously about this issue with me….feel free to PM.
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Post by Tankdriver on Nov 17, 2015 16:29:14 GMT -5
I am forbidden to talk about this, so I can't comment on the subject of refugees or our leadership decisions, however a soccer game in Germany was cancelled off over a concrete bomb threat. I can understand the publics fear. The world is starting to be put on high notice. I just hope the world is not going to be turned into barb wired enclosures with check points everywhere to get someplace.
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Post by Skilly on Nov 18, 2015 6:47:12 GMT -5
All people involved were European ... 4 French radicals, and a Belgian still on the loose. This was what the terrorist are hoping for, to spread fear and hate throughout the population, so their potential recruits won't leave their country and learn the West ain't all that bad.
The solution is to obviously welcome them with open arms. Screen them yes, check them yes. But welcome them.
Now, 25,000. Sounds a lot don't it? But Pearson International screens close to 100,000 EVERY SINGLE DAY. Now I know the process is different with refugees. It will take longer. But 1000 a day, given that there will be multiple locations, and the majority of the refugees coming into Canada (from what I understand) have been away from Syria for over a year, and are UN refugees that have had some screening already. But even if they are not, even if we are taking them directly off the streets ... We start now, and whatever number we get inside Canada that we consider safely screened, by Dec 31. So be it .... Be that 3000 or 30000.
I won't comment much further. There is lots I could say and have said on Facebook (to my own family too mind you ) ... The name calling has started already, and this is too important an issue for humanity to result to politics and name calling.
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Post by jkr on Nov 18, 2015 8:15:02 GMT -5
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Post by Polarice on Nov 18, 2015 8:52:15 GMT -5
Hard to express my feelings without sounding like a racist, but if it comes down to the safety of Canadians and not being politically correct, I think the decision is easy.
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Post by CentreHice on Nov 18, 2015 9:17:25 GMT -5
Hard to express my feelings without sounding like a racist, but if it comes down to the safety of Canadians and not being politically correct, I think the decision is easy. What we have to keep in mind is that Islam (or any religious system) is not a "race". It's an ideology. You can't convert to a "race"….but you can convert to an ideology. So to criticize it and want to keep it away has nothing to do with racism at all. What we're combating is software running on the brain. Ideas and beliefs about who we are, why we're here, where we're going, and our mission according to the rules and regulations (dogma, law) as set out by scriptures and further interpreted/enacted by those who have assumed the "power" to do so. Those beliefs foster actions, many of which are also spelled out in their scriptures. Jihad, matrydom, infidels, anti-Semitism, death to this, death to that….it's all there. There are Muslim leaders and followers who go by the books…while others are moderate. But the one pervasive element: the fear involved when it comes to criticizing/satirizing it. There is no dialogue, no argument….it's straight to a judgement of blasphemy and violent response with those fundamentalist factions. And so, that strategy has had a way of keeping even moderate Muslims in check. What a mess. A huge reformation from within is needed. But that's gonna take a lot of time and effort…and unfortunately, mayhem and carnage. |
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Post by Polarice on Nov 18, 2015 9:49:36 GMT -5
Hard to express my feelings without sounding like a racist, but if it comes down to the safety of Canadians and not being politically correct, I think the decision is easy. What we have to keep in mind is that Islam (or any religious system) is not a "race". It's an ideology. You can't convert to a "race"….but you can convert to an ideology. So to criticize it and want to keep it away has nothing to do with racism at all. What we're combating is software running on the brain. Ideas and beliefs about who we are, why we're here, where we're going, and our mission according to the rules and regulations (dogma, law) as set out by scriptures and further interpreted/enacted by those who have assumed the "power" to do so. Those beliefs foster actions, many of which are also spelled out in their scriptures. Jihad, matrydom, infidels, anti-Semitism, death to this, death to that….it's all there. True enough...it's like children fighting at the playground...."my god is better than your god." It's been like that since religion was created. However, I don't believe any religion preaches violence towards non-believers, it's how certain people interpret it. |
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Post by CentreHice on Nov 18, 2015 9:54:28 GMT -5
What we have to keep in mind is that Islam (or any religious system) is not a "race". It's an ideology. You can't convert to a "race"….but you can convert to an ideology. So to criticize it and want to keep it away has nothing to do with racism at all. What we're combating is software running on the brain. Ideas and beliefs about who we are, why we're here, where we're going, and our mission according to the rules and regulations (dogma, law) as set out by scriptures and further interpreted/enacted by those who have assumed the "power" to do so. Those beliefs foster actions, many of which are also spelled out in their scriptures. Jihad, matrydom, infidels, anti-Semitism, death to this, death to that….it's all there. True enough...it's like children fighting at the playground...."my god is better than your god." It's been like that since religion was created. However, I don't believe any religion preaches violence towards non-believers, it's how certain people interpret it. Au contraire. Check your PM in a little bit. |
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Post by franko on Nov 18, 2015 9:57:02 GMT -5
first, I'm more than a little embarrassed by the reaction of those who are of my "ilk". of course, it's the religious radicals that are the loudest on my side as well. concern is one thing; out and out fear mongering is another.
second, and I think forgotten or ignored, is that not all Syrian refugees are Muslim. so to say "keep all refugees away because they might be jihadists" is a ridiculous statement.
and third, there have been refugees in the system for years . . . waiting . . . waiting. bring them first. afraid that young single men might have bad intentions? bring in the women and children.
25,000 may be an unrealistic figure . . . but surely we can do something.
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Post by Polarice on Nov 18, 2015 10:05:10 GMT -5
No issues with women and children being welcome here....males would have to go through a very rigours screening process.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 18, 2015 12:52:55 GMT -5
first, I'm more than a little embarrassed by the reaction of those who are of my "ilk". of course, it's the religious radicals that are the loudest on my side as well. concern is one thing; out and out fear mongering is another. I find it very hard to blame anyone for their beliefs on this, Franko ... the media can take their fair share of blame for pumping fear into people by giving them a play-by-play of massacres and by giving jihadists the world stage ... that only serves to fuel bigotry and intollerance on both sides ... I spent six months in Syria back in '96 and it was a lot different then ... I made several Syrian friends while I was there ... don't know if they were Muslim or not ... just never came up ... we took our fair share of stares in these little Syrian villages, as well as in Damascus, but for the most part the Syrians were very friendly to us ... I'd go as far to say, they were even friendlier to us than the Israelis were ... A cut and paste from ctvnews.ca: "An estimated 90 per cent of refugees identify as Sunni Muslim, though many Christians won't declare their faith for fear of persecution, according to the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom" ... you're right about the diversity, but my biggest concern is just how much bigotry/intollerance will be coming into Canada with these migrants ... if Christians are afraid to ID themselves while en route to Canada, then they should be allowed to practice their faith when they get here ... that goes for all sides of the religious coin ... and, no, not all refugees/migrants are jihadists ... USA Today published an interesting fact yesterday ... Steve Jobs is the son of a Syrian migrant ... I'd be good with this ... I would much rather the Trudeau government take their time to do this properly rather than trying to fulfill an electoral promise ... rushing the process on anything does not make for good practice ... and, truth be told, I have very serious concerns about proper vetting and processing of these migrants ... that can't be taken for granted regardless what side of the fence we're on ... I'll thank the jihadists and the media for that, too ... Cheers. |
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Post by franko on Nov 18, 2015 13:43:44 GMT -5
I find it very hard to blame anyone for their beliefs on this, Franko it's not the beliefs that I have problem with as much as it is the absolute near-hate spewed by those who claim to rest in a religion of love. I know that I run in different circles and may hear things from further on the spectrum than you. on the other hand, our church is in the midst of the mess there and working with the refugees . . . of all religious or non-religious bents. and how much they will face. not so much (but enough) in Canada . . . but how about Texas? |
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Post by Cranky on Nov 18, 2015 15:03:50 GMT -5
Woman and children......maybe in Canada, but absolutely not on Greece. The vast, vast majority are young MILITARY AGE males. This isn't a guess, this is reality, on the ground, with my own eyes.
We need to seperate the bs from what is true. A month or so back, 60 minutes does a story about "refuges"arriving in a Greek island. They show a boat overfilled witn MAN and suprise, on the beach, all of a sudden, there are woman and children. The 40-50 man don't even show up on the paning shots. Replayed that video over and over, all man, no woman or children, beach, lots of woman and children. We actual never see the boat landing and people jumping off, just from one scene to the other. With lots of magic in between.
Or should we believe the various NGOs whose very existence depends on selling every border jumper and economic migrant as "refuge"? After all, other then Greeks on these islands and Greeks who see some streets in Athens filled with semi desperate males, who is going to challange and dismiss their claims that these are "woman and children running from war"? Starbucks Bobby from Toronto?
So let me get this straight....
Blunt reality.....We are going to give refuge to adult males of military age and send OUR adult males of military age to fight and die to bring freedom to their country. That doesn't work for me. I rather give every military aged "refuge"a gun and a thousand rounds of ammo and let him fight in his country for his freedom. Since there are an estimated 15,000 ISIS thugs and probably a million adult, military age males, I'm sure they can solve their problem pretty fast.
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Post by Cranky on Nov 18, 2015 15:25:20 GMT -5
first, I'm more than a little embarrassed by the reaction of those who are of my "ilk". of course, it's the religious radicals that are the loudest on my side as well. concern is one thing; out and out fear mongering is another. second, and I think forgotten or ignored, is that not all Syrian refugees are Muslim. so to say "keep all refugees away because they might be jihadists" is a ridiculous statement. and third, there have been refugees in the system for years . . . waiting . . . waiting. bring them first. afraid that young single men might have bad intentions? bring in the women and children. 25,000 may be an unrealistic figure . . . but surely we can do something. Sure, we must do something....for the woman and children. The woman and children nedd something to be done. Those vulnerable woman and children. Woman and children. But what about the vast majority of those who are adult military age males? How about the millions of adult military aged males flooding Europe? Let me get this tied down in my head. Greece was occupied by Turks for over 400 years, my predecassors died by double digit percentage ever decade to gain their freedom, my father who still alive fought Italiens, then Germans then communist crazies to keep our freedom, Canadians died and die for our freedom, but now, all these military aged adult males are "refugees" from glorified thugs? Did I get this straigt? |
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Post by Cranky on Nov 18, 2015 15:49:04 GMT -5
All people involved were European ... 4 French radicals, and a Belgian still on the loose. This was what the terrorist are hoping for, to spread fear and hate throughout the population, so their potential recruits won't leave their country and learn the West ain't all that bad. The solution is to obviously welcome them with open arms. Screen them yes, check them yes. But welcome them. Now, 25,000. Sounds a lot don't it? But Pearson International screens close to 100,000 EVERY SINGLE DAY. Now I know the process is different with refugees. It will take longer. But 1000 a day, given that there will be multiple locations, and the majority of the refugees coming into Canada (from what I understand) have been away from Syria for over a year, and are UN refugees that have had some screening already. But even if they are not, even if we are taking them directly off the streets ... We start now, and whatever number we get inside Canada that we consider safely screened, by Dec 31. So be it .... Be that 3000 or 30000. I won't comment much further. There is lots I could say and have said on Facebook (to my own family too mind you ) ... The name calling has started already, and this is too important an issue for humanity to result to politics and name calling. Obviuosly we should look for some sort of proportional response. Since there are something like over half millon "refugees" flooding Greece, we should take at least 2 million a YEAR in Canada. All landing in Newfoundland. After all, it's the "humanity" thing to do. I have a different take on this. Probably because I can see a lot of hungry, desperate adult males outside my house when I open my door in Greece. Probably because i fear for the safety of my 98 year old father. And this is in a small town, very, very far from any landing point. |
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Post by Cranky on Nov 18, 2015 16:01:18 GMT -5
... the media can take their fair share of blame for pumping fear into people by giving them a play-by-play of massacres and by giving jihadists the world stage ... I despise the media with a vegeance. Maybe because im getting older and more cynical, or because they are spinning tales of any given agenda, far removed from any reality. I can't believe the amazing amount of "experts" media trot out on the "refuge crisis" on a different continet, 6000 miles away, all gained from a tablet in Starbucks on Younge street. |
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Post by Skilly on Nov 18, 2015 16:50:04 GMT -5
All people involved were European ... 4 French radicals, and a Belgian still on the loose. This was what the terrorist are hoping for, to spread fear and hate throughout the population, so their potential recruits won't leave their country and learn the West ain't all that bad. The solution is to obviously welcome them with open arms. Screen them yes, check them yes. But welcome them. Now, 25,000. Sounds a lot don't it? But Pearson International screens close to 100,000 EVERY SINGLE DAY. Now I know the process is different with refugees. It will take longer. But 1000 a day, given that there will be multiple locations, and the majority of the refugees coming into Canada (from what I understand) have been away from Syria for over a year, and are UN refugees that have had some screening already. But even if they are not, even if we are taking them directly off the streets ... We start now, and whatever number we get inside Canada that we consider safely screened, by Dec 31. So be it .... Be that 3000 or 30000. I won't comment much further. There is lots I could say and have said on Facebook (to my own family too mind you ) ... The name calling has started already, and this is too important an issue for humanity to result to politics and name calling. Obviuosly we should look for some sort of proportional response. Since there are something like over half millon "refugees" flooding Greece, we should take at least 2 million a YEAR in Canada. All landing in Newfoundland. After all, it's the "humanity" thing to do. I have a different take on this. Probably because I can see a lot of hungry, desperate adult males outside my house when I open my door in Greece. Probably because i fear for the safety of my 98 year old father. And this is in a small town, very, very far from any landing point. A Newfoundland MP has already offered 5 wing Goose Bay to screen the refugees. It is the "humanity" thing to do. Canada will be taking in refugees that have been living in UN refugee camps for over a year. There is a greater chance of a white male Canadian doing something heinous than these refugees. |
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Post by Skilly on Nov 18, 2015 17:01:37 GMT -5
Where do we stop?
We lump Syrian refugees in with ISIS, a terrorist group , so let's not let them enter the country.
What about the Irish? Chris Harper Mercer who recently gunned down students in Oregon was an IRA supporter, a terrorist group, shall we not let the Irish enter the country anymore?
What about Germans? There are countless terrorist acts committed by neo-Nazis , shall we now ban Germans from Canada?
Heck, what about the Army of God? A Christian terrorist group. They've killed a lot of abortion doctors, shall we now ban Christian countries?
Prior to 9/11 the biggest terrorist act on American soil was by Timothy McVeigh (killed 168, over 600 injured) While he was angry with the government, he was a KKK supporter, a Christian terrorist group.
But this time the terrorists are a little different than us ... Spewing fear and hate, not showing compassion, will just make the circle of contempt go on and on.
Can we please change the thread title. 129 is not over 150.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 18, 2015 18:30:02 GMT -5
... the media can take their fair share of blame for pumping fear into people by giving them a play-by-play of massacres and by giving jihadists the world stage ... I despise the media with a vegeance. Maybe because im getting older and more cynical, or because they are spinning tales of any given agenda, far removed from any reality. I can't believe the amazing amount of "experts" media trot out on the "refuge crisis" on a different continet, 6000 miles away, all gained from a tablet in Starbucks on Younge street. The media doesn't pursue the truth, they pursue the story ... and they'll milk the story for every cent ... Cheers. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 18, 2015 18:38:45 GMT -5
I find it very hard to blame anyone for their beliefs on this, Franko it's not the beliefs that I have problem with as much as it is the absolute near-hate spewed by those who claim to rest in a religion of love. I know that I run in different circles and may hear things from further on the spectrum than you. on the other hand, our church is in the midst of the mess there and working with the refugees . . . of all religious or non-religious bents. and how much they will face. not so much (but enough) in Canada . . . but how about Texas? For sure, man ... absolutely ... Cheers. |
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Post by Cranky on Nov 18, 2015 21:25:51 GMT -5
Where do we stop? We lump Syrian refugees in with ISIS, a terrorist group , so let's not let them enter the country. What about the Irish? Chris Harper Mercer who recently gunned down students in Oregon was an IRA supporter, a terrorist group, shall we not let the Irish enter the country anymore? What about Germans? There are countless terrorist acts committed by neo-Nazis , shall we now ban Germans from Canada? Heck, what about the Army of God? A Christian terrorist group. They've killed a lot of abortion doctors, shall we now ban Christian countries? Prior to 9/11 the biggest terrorist act on American soil was by Timothy McVeigh (killed 168, over 600 injured) While he was angry with the government, he was a KKK supporter, a Christian terrorist group. But this time the terrorists are a little different than us ... Spewing fear and hate, not showing compassion, will just make the circle of contempt go on and on. Can we please change the thread title. 129 is not over 150. Who is lumping them with ISIS? You're making a straw argument and then another tangent beyond that. Topping it off with "fear and hate" that you keep repeating as if you cornered the market in moral judgment. What i clearly commented was that we need time to do a thorough and proper screening devoid of political bragging and I clearly said a couple of times is that we and Europe, particularly Europe is taking a flood of adult military age males that are running away from fighting for their own cause. I do not support or accept that. |
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Post by Cranky on Nov 18, 2015 21:50:04 GMT -5
Obviuosly we should look for some sort of proportional response. Since there are something like over half millon "refugees" flooding Greece, we should take at least 2 million a YEAR in Canada. All landing in Newfoundland. After all, it's the "humanity" thing to do. I have a different take on this. Probably because I can see a lot of hungry, desperate adult males outside my house when I open my door in Greece. Probably because i fear for the safety of my 98 year old father. And this is in a small town, very, very far from any landing point. A Newfoundland MP has already offered 5 wing Goose Bay to screen the refugees. It is the "humanity" thing to do. Canada will be taking in refugees that have been living in UN refugee camps for over a year. There is a greater chance of a white male Canadian doing something heinous than these refugees. Great. You are going to screen refugees on Canadian soil. And then what are you going to do with ghose who are questionable? Send them to Syria? Europe? Where? Then there is the other problem....the vast majority of those crossing into Europe in Greece are either ditching any real papers or created ficticious ones to claim refugee status. EVERYONE and I mean EVERYONE crossing into Greece are claiming refugee status. You think Canada has some special ability to weed out fictitious papers or false claims? At best, the only way is to have existing families in Canada ask for relatives in refugee camps, but even that will be laced with fraud. This is not about immigration, everyone on this board is probably an immigrant...and so am I. Repeat.....What the issue is to make absolutely sure that we are not bringing in those that can cause us harm, certainly not because some politician wants to shout about it AND the issue of giving adult military age males a free pass while putting Canadian military people at risk. |
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Post by Skilly on Nov 18, 2015 21:58:21 GMT -5
And you keep ignoring that CANADA has stated they are, at the moment, ONLY accepting refugees that have been outside of Syria and living in UN refugee camps, and SCREENED by the UN already. When they get to Canada they will be screened again.
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Post by Skilly on Nov 18, 2015 22:08:07 GMT -5
Where do we stop? We lump Syrian refugees in with ISIS, a terrorist group , so let's not let them enter the country. What about the Irish? Chris Harper Mercer who recently gunned down students in Oregon was an IRA supporter, a terrorist group, shall we not let the Irish enter the country anymore? What about Germans? There are countless terrorist acts committed by neo-Nazis , shall we now ban Germans from Canada? Heck, what about the Army of God? A Christian terrorist group. They've killed a lot of abortion doctors, shall we now ban Christian countries? Prior to 9/11 the biggest terrorist act on American soil was by Timothy McVeigh (killed 168, over 600 injured) While he was angry with the government, he was a KKK supporter, a Christian terrorist group. But this time the terrorists are a little different than us ... Spewing fear and hate, not showing compassion, will just make the circle of contempt go on and on. Can we please change the thread title. 129 is not over 150. Who is lumping them with ISIS? You're making a straw argument and then another tangent beyond that. Topping it off with "fear and hate" that you keep repeating as if you cornered the market in moral judgment. What i clearly commented was that we need time to do a thorough and proper screening devoid of political bragging and I clearly said a couple of times is that we and Europe, particularly Europe is taking a flood of adult military age males that are running away from fighting for their own cause. I do not support or accept that. Ok, so if you are not lumping them with ISIS then why the fear they will cause harm? You are afraid that one will fraudulently get into the country ... I got news for you, odds are they are already here. Trudeau has said he will be removing the soldiers and the will only be used to train ...so our soldiers are not at risk. And it's not your call to conscript people into a fight they do not want to fight. |
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Post by Cranky on Nov 19, 2015 4:18:44 GMT -5
Who is lumping them with ISIS? You're making a straw argument and then another tangent beyond that. Topping it off with "fear and hate" that you keep repeating as if you cornered the market in moral judgment. What i clearly commented was that we need time to do a thorough and proper screening devoid of political bragging and I clearly said a couple of times is that we and Europe, particularly Europe is taking a flood of adult military age males that are running away from fighting for their own cause. I do not support or accept that. Ok, so if you are not lumping them with ISIS then why the fear they will cause harm? You are afraid that one will fraudulently get into the country ... I got news for you, odds are they are already here. Trudeau has said he will be removing the soldiers and the will only be used to train ...so our soldiers are not at risk. And it's not your call to conscript people into a fight they do not want to fight. Actually, you lumped them together repeatedly to make a straw argument. What I said that there should be a thorough screening devoid of political bs and certainly not on Canadian soil. What i said is that it's very difficult to establish full and valid credentials. What I said is the vast majority are adult military aged males that are flooding Europe and here if we let them. What I'm saying is that Europe is not equiped to handle so many millions....and millions more comming. What I'm saying is that it's causing social unease and even unrest in local populations. What I'm saying that this is a massive micro and macro problem. Of course, if you have first hand knowledge of what is happening in some European city streets, particularly the front lines like Athens and Greece in particular, please share. I've only been to Greece over a dozen times since 2009. And Germany. And Italy. And Spain. Heading for Italy to see a machine in January and then on a whistle stop through and several European countries to establish distribution in April. I could of missed the obvious..... As for conscripting, i can't conscript them but they certainly conscripted us onto their problem that THEY are running away from it. The title of this thread reads..... Terrorist attack......129 dead. Not a single one of those people volunteered to die for someone else's civil war, 4000 miles away. But they were certainly conscripted...to body bags. |
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Post by franko on Nov 19, 2015 7:00:07 GMT -5
fwiw, when I was in Lebanon 4 years ago there were already over half a million Syrian refugees in the country . . . applying for refugee status . . . hoping to move anywhere . . . being vetted by the UN. legitimate refugees. these should be first in line. and if they have begun the process (it's been four years, so the administrative bureaucracy should have some of the paperwork done) then why not work to get it done?
half a million Syrian refugees and half a million Palestinian refugees in that country that is still shell-shocked and trying to recover from ongoing conflicts (nice word) . . . surely we can get something done.
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Post by duster on Nov 19, 2015 15:09:42 GMT -5
We are dealing with angry young men who, for some reason, feel alienated from us yet insist on living in our society. Is it a culture of blame or is it really religious zealotry? I don't pretend to understand all of those reasons and I think our society i.e. Western culture, is doing its utmost to address an intractable problem. I'm certain, however, soft power Liberal style won't work any better than bombing has so far. How successful are the Scandinavians at making a difference? They have plenty of angry young Muslims who feel alienated and refuse to integrate in Stockholm too.
In regards to screening 25,000 refugees. What if the 25000 came from Sierra Leone? You can bet everyone would be carefully screened for Ebola and there would be no rush. Why is this different for Syrian Muslims?
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Post by Cranky on Nov 19, 2015 15:17:41 GMT -5
fwiw, when I was in Lebanon 4 years ago there were already over half a million Syrian refugees in the country . . . applying for refugee status . . . hoping to move anywhere . . . being vetted by the UN. legitimate refugees. these should be first in line. and if they have begun the process (it's been four years, so the administrative bureaucracy should have some of the paperwork done) then why not work to get it done? half a million Syrian refugees and half a million Palestinian refugees in that country that is still shell-shocked and trying to recover from ongoing conflicts (nice word) . . . surely we can get something done. Thoroughly vet them THERE and limit it to families and preferably those that have family here. Ideally, they have a trade or profession. No guarantee of anything but at least it's a decent start in safety and future. Half a million Palestinians and Syrians? Only? How about tens if not hundreds of millions from Afganistan, Pakistan, any given 'stan, most of Africa, most of the southern Asia. Ask any of them and they are "refugees". We in Canada read about this problem and can afford to be righteous about it, but I bet we would have a different tune if it was on our vast border and sitting on the steps of our own houses. I mean actually, in full living colour sitting on the steps of our houses. In scale, 2 million a year border jumping and tens of millions behind them. Anywho....25,000 is not a problem for us as long as they are willing CANADIANS in the making. But it wont end there and it solves nothing.... |
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Post by duster on Nov 19, 2015 15:28:29 GMT -5
I'm beginning to appreciate the methods used by Australia and New Zealand. They have a dedicated facility offshore to process immigrants. It may not be the Hilton, but the applicants are sheltered, cared for and processed in relative safety and some efficiency. Would it be time to consider an offshore facility as well? Is it too late to annex Turks and Caicos?  |
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