|
|
Post by franko on Nov 19, 2015 16:21:38 GMT -5
Thoroughly vet them THERE and limit it to families and preferably those that have family here. I doubt if you'd get much argument from anyone about that. "family" stipulation might be difficult. many families left the area years ago . . .they should have been vetted by now. the news -- late -- of people fleeing gets the attention. have those who have waited at the front of the line. and many do. before ISIL -- before the (un)civil was, it was a prosperous area. except that I was there talking with them, seeing them living wherever they could find a space . . . and welcomed by a nation that is still reeling from their own civil war and from the war with Israel. electricity grid almost non-existent. UN checkpoints, Lebanese Army checkpoints, Hezbollah checkpoints . . . the Lebanese making the best of their own situation AND trying to do something about the influx of people -- religion not an issue, people need help, so if you are Christian or Muslim there will be some help. sure, some of it is the effects of their own making . . . and we should be careful . . . but to do nothing? uh-uh. or (looking at some of my relatives) self-righteous about it. yup we're lucky . . . but "too bad for you" is not a response we should be making. we're back to tentative open arms: you are welcome here, screening to be done. oh, youthe process has been started? let's keep it goingsee, we do agree. |
|
|
|
Post by Cranky on Nov 19, 2015 19:02:11 GMT -5
I'm beginning to appreciate the methods used by Australia and New Zealand. They have a dedicated facility offshore to process immigrants. It may not be the Hilton, but the applicants are sheltered, cared for and processed in relative safety and some efficiency. Would it be time to consider an offshore facility as well? Is it too late to annex Turks and Caicos?  INVADE is the operative word here. Lilly white in January should only reference to bed sheets! PS....I am armed......best slingshot money can buy..... It has to be done offshore otherwise there will an army of low'yers and activist judges making it a one way street. Also, it should be in military hands since they have the built in infrustructure to handle it. |
|
|
|
Post by Cranky on Nov 19, 2015 22:42:39 GMT -5
Sure. On 25,000. We picked up a few ice cubes from the iceburg. I did notice that you skipped the rest of the sentence....... "it wont end there and solved nothing". What about the iceburg? |
|
|
|
Post by CentreHice on Nov 19, 2015 23:32:53 GMT -5
One of many comprehensive, lengthy articles about ISIS (not all Muslims)....what they believe...their sources for those beliefs...what they want....and what they're doing to get it. Important to understand what we're up against.... Bad software running on the brain.... The Atlantic |
|
|
|
Post by Tankdriver on Nov 20, 2015 1:40:54 GMT -5
From the Montreal Gazette regarding the 25k in refugees: It will cost1.2 Billion over 6 years with roughly 867 million in the first year alone. Funny how that wasn't in the election campaign. I am sure the veterans, the natives and the people who got layer off out west are enjoying this. I don't mind doing my part but I better not see an increase in taxes provincially of federally. Spend within your means and don't go over budget if you don't have it.
|
|
|
|
Post by duster on Nov 20, 2015 12:43:21 GMT -5
The government is scrambling to find accommodation for these people. Where in Vancouver and Victoria is all that extra capacity? Perhaps the plan is to put them in tents? There is speculation they will be put up in hotels. I'm sure the homeless and their social advocates will be thrilled.
I suspect the government will spend another big chunk of money on advertising trying to convince the citizenry that doing this is a fantastic idea.
I'm not against the idea of bringing in refugees. The whole thing appears to be very poorly planned and I think it's going to be a heck of a mess.
|
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 20, 2015 12:58:49 GMT -5
I'm not against the idea of bringing in refugees. The whole thing appears to be very poorly planned and I think it's going to be a heck of a mess. Prime Minister Trudeau promised to get all 25,000 of them here in Canada before Christmas but I'm not so sure he did any advance planning on this one ... maybe at one time he didn't think he'd be calling the shots so soon, but still, you can't make a promise like that without at least a draft plan in place ... maybe the Liberals do have a plan, but it can't be much of one ... there's a lot of scrambling around going on and he could have alleviated that had he proper contingency plan all ready to go ... we're getting some here and I know where they'll be housed and where they'll be eating ... it's the same barracks the Kosovo refugees trashed stayed in while they were here ... they're closing off one of the senior-rank messes to the members just give them a place to eat and they're already canvassing the base to see who speaks Arabic ... interesting times ... Cheers. |
|
|
|
Post by franko on Nov 20, 2015 13:07:30 GMT -5
I suspect the government will spend another big chunk of money on advertising trying to convince the citizenry that doing this is a fantastic idea. : The Liberal government, elected on platform that pledged to ban partisan advertising, is set to launch a $500,000 digital ad campaign to boost public support for its plan to bring in 25,000 Syrian refugees by the end of the year, according to a strategic plan document obtained by the National Post.of course it is -- but by all parties. whether 10,000 or 25,000 refugees, it would be difficult. gonna be interesting. I imagine, though, that if Duffy doesn't take the main stage for deflection, this will: Liberals say Canada is billions deeper in debt as they open the books for first time link |
|
|
|
Post by Cranky on Nov 20, 2015 16:39:06 GMT -5
I suspect the government will spend another big chunk of money on advertising trying to convince the citizenry that doing this is a fantastic idea. : The Liberal government, elected on platform that pledged to ban partisan advertising, is set to launch a $500,000 digital ad campaign to boost public support for its plan to bring in 25,000 Syrian refugees by the end of the year, according to a strategic plan document obtained by the National Post.of course it is -- but by all parties. whether 10,000 or 25,000 refugees, it would be difficult. gonna be interesting. I imagine, though, that if Duffy doesn't take the main stage for deflection, this will: Liberals say Canada is billions deeper in debt as they open the books for first time linkYou actually TRUST the Liberals? Really? Would you like that trust to be backed by a signed piece of paper? Remember this?  The guy who was the brains behind all that malarkey is best buds with our Prince and advising him on Pinocchio tactics. If Canada does not know who Gerald Butts is, they will certainly feel his "save the sky" and "debt? what is debt" and "we lie for your own good" malarkey. He has the history to prove it. |
|
|
|
Post by Cranky on Nov 20, 2015 16:47:33 GMT -5
I'm not against the idea of bringing in refugees. The whole thing appears to be very poorly planned and I think it's going to be a heck of a mess. Prime Minister Trudeau promised to get all 25,000 of them here in Canada before Christmas but I'm not so sure he did any advance planning on this one ... maybe at one time he didn't think he'd be calling the shots so soon, but still, you can't make a promise like that without at least a draft plan in place ... maybe the Liberals do have a plan, but it can't be much of one ... there's a lot of scrambling around going on and he could have alleviated that had he proper contingency plan all ready to go ... we're getting some here and I know where they'll be housed and where they'll be eating ... it's the same barracks the Kosovo refugees trashed stayed in while they were here ... they're closing off one of the senior-rank messes to the members just give them a place to eat and they're already canvassing the base to see who speaks Arabic ... interesting times ... Cheers. I bet the house that they are spending far more time on figuring out a plan on how to sell it and worrying about potential fallout then the actual planning of housing and feeding. I wonder how all those other groups feel to be pushed to the back of the bus. |
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 20, 2015 16:48:30 GMT -5
I suspect the government will spend another big chunk of money on advertising trying to convince the citizenry that doing this is a fantastic idea. : The Liberal government, elected on platform that pledged to ban partisan advertising, is set to launch a $500,000 digital ad campaign to boost public support for its plan to bring in 25,000 Syrian refugees by the end of the year, according to a strategic plan document obtained by the National Post.of course it is -- but by all parties. whether 10,000 or 25,000 refugees, it would be difficult. gonna be interesting. I imagine, though, that if Duffy doesn't take the main stage for deflection, this will: Liberals say Canada is billions deeper in debt as they open the books for first time linkI just started chuckling to myself the moment I read this ... man ... they're all so full of crap ... every stinkin' politician ( Ruth Ellen Brosseau exempted) ... but we're not really all that bad off when I look at the choices south of the border ... Trudeau is going to get them here before Christmas, come hell or high water ... imagine breaking another election promise at this point ... mercy ...  ... stopped chuckling now ... back to hockey ... Cheers. |
|
|
|
Post by Cranky on Nov 20, 2015 17:16:34 GMT -5
here you go . . . : The Liberal government, elected on platform that pledged to ban partisan advertising, is set to launch a $500,000 digital ad campaign to boost public support for its plan to bring in 25,000 Syrian refugees by the end of the year, according to a strategic plan document obtained by the National Post.of course it is -- but by all parties. whether 10,000 or 25,000 refugees, it would be difficult. gonna be interesting. I imagine, though, that if Duffy doesn't take the main stage for deflection, this will: Liberals say Canada is billions deeper in debt as they open the books for first time link I just started chuckling to myself the moment I read this ... man ... they're all so full of crap ... every stinkin' politician ( Ruth Ellen Brosseau exempted) ... but we're not really all that bad off when I look at the choices south of the border ... Trudeau is going to get them here before Christmas, come hell or high water ... imagine breaking another election promise at this point ... mercy ... ... stopped chuckling now ... back to hockey ... Cheers. I'm so use to hearing Greek politicians lie that there is simply nothing any Canadian politician can match, McGuinty included. At least, not yet. As for political spending promises......their "free ice cream, nobody pays" promises always get interrupted by reality. On the other hand, there a guy called Butts...no really, his first name is Gerald..... Doesn't it make you feel warm and fuzzy that he's the brains behind the annoited one! BTW, how's your electricity bill doing? Not too high? Don't worry, it will rise onther 30% over the next few years. Plus more to come on the federal level.... www.ctvnews.ca/politics/5-things-to-know-about-trudeau-confidant-gerald-butts-1.2619851 |
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Nov 21, 2015 11:28:53 GMT -5
ISIS recruiting officer:
Mo, we can do this one of two ways. Plan A is first you pack just a few essentials into a bag. Then we want you to walk for 12 hours a day and you'll have to scrounge food from somewhere. Sorry, we can't help you there, but you have to act the part of a refugee. Then we want you to do this for a few months. Oh yeah, you may have to take a leaky boat with a bunch of infidels and if you make it to the other side, you get to walk some more. Hey, we can all lose a few pounds right? Sorry, I don't know what the washroom facilities are like along the way. C'mon MO, what's that look on your face? Plan B?
Ok, PLan B is we give you a fake passport, lots of money and you fly into civilization. That takes just a day or two, but it's no exercise program.
I can't help discounting the planting of terrorists into the refugee wave. It's just not logical and there are much better ways of fomentng terror. Of course, if you can convince the west Plan A is what you intend, then they'll waste a bunch of their resources . That strategy take almost no effort and costs almost nothing...a little time planting rumours is all.
|
|
|
|
Post by Cranky on Nov 21, 2015 13:20:17 GMT -5
Let's dispel a couple of well sold little media stories about how hard it is to get into Europe. Take a bus from the Syrian border to a coastal Turkish town, pay a smuggler and on the next rubber boat to a Greek island, about an hour to three away. From there, the rest of the way to Athens is the next ferry boat ride. Voila, in the heart of European city in about two days. About the only "hardship" is the lack of onboard snack services on the rubber boat and a bit of elbow rubbing. From the island and around Greece, they have access to ALL transportation available to Greeks. In fact, on my last bus trip to Athens, 6. I know because in Greece, if the bus is half empty, people disperse into the window seats. Seat numbers only matter if the bus is full. I did that too and happened to be seating on a sold seat, which a nice young Pakistani lad showed me his ticket, pointed tonthe seat and then to himself. Obviously he has not learned the Greek ways. Actually it was a bit funny to see them sitting in their designated seat numbers on an almost empty bus. How did I kmow they were speaking Pakistani? Blame one of my employees....lol
Getting into Turkey is as porous as getting into Greece. One does not have to be in camps and can simply cross over and use their transport system. Just like Greece. Once in Greece, from whatever point of arrival, one can ditch any papers and claim refuge status with whatever name and story one can conjur up.
Also, let's dispel another myth. If one has a passport, real or well made fake, one can take a flight to anywhere. Passing Greek customs to get on a flight is not exactly the height of security. Passport. Computer check. Stamp. NEXT. US and Canadian border security is far, far tighter and more pro-active.
Of course, you hear of the well sold stories of "drowning war torn refugees" and how their trip was just short of making it back from Mars on foot. Every drowning picture and story is flashed around the world as proof to sell tears and sympathy. Ask no questions. What you are not told is the other half million whose trek into Greece is no more dangerous then a few hours of inconvinience. Of course, that won't sell media time or agendas. Nor sell the narative.
What happens to those that have no money in Greece is altogether another story. Greece definetly has zero infrastructure to support the massive influx and worse, that influx taps into the existing meager health system. No matter what of who, Greek hospitals must treat whoever is at their door.
On the other hand, those with money and connections, like an ISIS operative, our western security is a joke. A deadly joke.
Like I said, we are far, far removed from the front line realities.
|
|
|
|
Post by Skilly on Nov 21, 2015 15:14:14 GMT -5
ISIS recruiting officer: Mo, we can do this one of two ways. Plan A is first you pack just a few essentials into a bag. Then we want you to walk for 12 hours a day and you'll have to scrounge food from somewhere. Sorry, we can't help you there, but you have to act the part of a refugee. Then we want you to do this for a few months. Oh yeah, you may have to take a leaky boat with a bunch of infidels and if you make it to the other side, you get to walk some more. Hey, we can all lose a few pounds right? Sorry, I don't know what the washroom facilities are like along the way. C'mon MO, what's that look on your face? Plan B? Ok, PLan B is we give you a fake passport, lots of money and you fly into civilization. That takes just a day or two, but it's no exercise program. I can't help discounting the planting of terrorists into the refugee wave. It's just not logical and there are much better ways of fomentng terror. Of course, if you can convince the west Plan A is what you intend, then they'll waste a bunch of their resources . That strategy take almost no effort and costs almost nothing...a little time planting rumours is all. It's a red herring ... Canada accepts millions upon millions upon millions of people from other countries each year. No talks about how easy a terrorist could get in , and will, and more than likely already have. Canada accepts over 250,000 refugees, immigrants, foreign trade workers, students, etc ...every year. That's 750 a day. And over 2 months that's 45,000. But 25,000 is crazy talk. No one worries over that. Now, unless you absolutely believe that Canada has ZERO terrorists inside its borders, than yeah, one could get in this way. Highly unlikely, but one could. But there are terrorist inside Canada. And they didn't get in by pretending to be a refugee. Not one that's in a camp now and has been for over a year. And if you do think this is the only way a terrorist gets in and causes problems in our front yards, then man, you shouldn't be worried at all. Sounds like our screening is top notch. NONE, can't get better than that. But they are in Canada, and odds are they are nationalized (like the French event). Ottawa, New Brunswick, ring bells? Both Islam radicals. Problem is we are quick to label them "lone wolfs", why? I won't answer it. |
|
|
|
Post by Cranky on Nov 21, 2015 15:22:49 GMT -5
A few more thoughts on migrants from were they actually are...and not newspaper stories...
I don't travel within Athens by bus but I did notice that between my town and to/from Athens, they travel in small groups. I don't know if that through fear or simple circumstance. Given the far rigjt Golden DawnKeys, it's probably the former.
I hired migrants on occasion. To put away the firewood for my parents or to help me do some heavier jobs like washing the roof or doing home repairs. They are available in pools in certain areas of my town and you simply go up to them, explain the job and ask who is interested. In my case, I always try to pick the ones who look like they did actually make the trips from Mars on foot. I pay between 20 to 40 Euros for what amounts to a few to maybe six hours of work. When my mother was alive, she would also make them a meal. Heck....as big a meal as she would feed her overweight son.....which probably hurt more then helped a hundred pound man whose previous meal was a small souvlaki skewer.
Their nationality was mostly Afgan and Pakistani as well as some African countries. After a few hours, I would stop for a break and used my God like mod powers to find out about their lives (eyes rolling). Most of the time, it was hard to communicate but we tried. And because the communications were very basic, they couldn't filter any story. Pretty much young man in their later twenties or older. Some with families back home.
As expected, they were willing and able, with also the concern that I didn't abuse that. On the roof, I sweated in equal degree and vigor. Migrant abuse in Greece is rampant and having come from a country were equality is not just another word, I would not ask them to work or do anything I wouldn't do, bad back notwithstanding. I can't say that every fellow Greek hiring was equal, definetly some are downright slavery. Proud of it too.
Fine, hired some, but on the other hand, there is 1.5 million Greeks looking for a job so for the convinience of hiring migrants, I screwed an equal amount of fellow Greeks out of wages. I'm not sure I want to ask a unemployed Greek about where his family next meal is coming from while I have three Afgans on my roof.
Thus my ambivalence about the entire situation. Sure, hire them, help them, but given only so much opportunity and ability, who has priority? Unemployed Greeks or migrants? Spend a couple of billion on needy Canadian families or Syrian refugees? On those who are part of a civil war in a far away country, partially or in whole of their making or needy Canadians? Particularly our old and incapable?
|
|
|
|
Post by Cranky on Nov 22, 2015 1:18:30 GMT -5
Just the facts, no propaganda, no agenda spin, just the facts.....from a Greek newspaper with uncontestable proof....note the REGISTERING as refugees..... ---------- Proto Thema exclusive: The two suspected jihadists – Ahmed Almuhamed and Mohammed Almuhmed – went to Leros after they were shipwrecked and traveled to Piraeus via Kalymnos on October 5 before entering Serbia on Oct. 7 Related Paris attackers: What we know about them so far –… A Syrian passport found outside the Stade de France on Friday night after the first explosion that led to a trail of violence in multiple attacks around Paris was traced to refugees who passed through Greece. The Greek Ministry of Public Order had noted that the passport owner had traveled through Leros on October 3 and had been registered according to the guidelines of the EU as these had been decided at the EU Council on refugees.
In an exclusive, protothema.gr has released the names of the two migrants involved in the terror attack that had passed through Greece on October 3 – Ahmed Almuhamed and Mohammed Almuhamed. They came to the island of Leros and stayed from October 3-4 where they were documented. On October 5 they used their Syrian passports to travel to Piraeus via Kalymnos on Diagoras. Just 39 days later on Friday, November 13, they were outside the Stade de France game at 9.30 p.m. where the first “kamikazi” bomber who had explosives tied to him carried out the first attack in the name of the Islamic State. The suicide bombing took place at the stadium where 80,000 people had gathered to watch the friendly game between France and Germany. Among the spectators was French President Francois Hollande and German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier. The two men traveled using Syrian passports and are believed to have been involved in the bloodshed at the Paris capital that cost more than 127 lives. In a world exclusive, Proto Thema reveals their names and brings to light their tickets: For proof, go here..... en.protothema.gr/proto-thema-presents-the-names-and-tickets-of-the-bombists-that-passed-through-greece/(Greece is having a very tough time with migrants and even though the country leans very left, note they elected communist, they have no illusions about what is happenning. Greek newspapers tend to be politically biased, but there is no unified media grand agenda to slander the news. For every Toronto Star, they have an equivilant and opposite paper and point of view.) |
|
|
|
Post by Cranky on Nov 22, 2015 3:32:52 GMT -5
ISIS recruiting officer: Mo, we can do this one of two ways. Plan A is first you pack just a few essentials into a bag. Then we want you to walk for 12 hours a day and you'll have to scrounge food from somewhere. Sorry, we can't help you there, but you have to act the part of a refugee. Then we want you to do this for a few months. Oh yeah, you may have to take a leaky boat with a bunch of infidels and if you make it to the other side, you get to walk some more. Hey, we can all lose a few pounds right? Sorry, I don't know what the washroom facilities are like along the way. C'mon MO, what's that look on your face? Plan B? Ok, PLan B is we give you a fake passport, lots of money and you fly into civilization. That takes just a day or two, but it's no exercise program. I can't help discounting the planting of terrorists into the refugee wave. It's just not logical and there are much better ways of fomentng terror. Of course, if you can convince the west Plan A is what you intend, then they'll waste a bunch of their resources . That strategy take almost no effort and costs almost nothing...a little time planting rumours is all. It's a red herring ... Canada accepts millions upon millions upon millions of people from other countries each year. No talks about how easy a terrorist could get in , and will, and more than likely already have. Canada accepts over 250,000 refugees, immigrants, foreign trade workers, students, etc ...every year. That's 750 a day. And over 2 months that's 45,000. But 25,000 is crazy talk. No one worries over that. Now, unless you absolutely believe that Canada has ZERO terrorists inside its borders, than yeah, one could get in this way. Highly unlikely, but one could. But there are terrorist inside Canada. And they didn't get in by pretending to be a refugee. Not one that's in a camp now and has been for over a year. And if you do think this is the only way a terrorist gets in and causes problems in our front yards, then man, you shouldn't be worried at all. Sounds like our screening is top notch. NONE, can't get better than that. But they are in Canada, and odds are they are nationalized (like the French event). Ottawa, New Brunswick, ring bells? Both Islam radicals. Problem is we are quick to label them "lone wolfs", why? I won't answer it. First, you are running away with equivilancies. Millions and millions of visitors mostly from the US and across the planet is not the same as visitors from a specific active hotspot. In fact, according to stats Canada, no Middle East country makes it in the top 15 in tourism, never mind Syria. Nor 250,000 immigrants from all over the planet the same as immigrants from a known active hotspot. Worse then that, we now KNOW they there are deliberate plants from said hotspot. Check my article with actual proof, not conjecture. Second, Greek authorities said yesterday that it's nearly impossible, yes they used the word nearly IMPOSSIBLE, to seperate terrorists from legitimate refugees. They fingerprint everyone they catch/volunteer, check their background with whatever international intellegence sources they have and ONLY IF they are on a known database do they get weeded out as potential terrorists. This is from a country who deals with this regional issue at 650,000 per YEAR level, who has regional intelligence and local experts/cooperation yet in Canada, all of a sudden, our vetting is going to magically be better? Nor do two "lone wolves" mean anything. The Paris bombings were an organized, planned mass murder. Including inflitration of personal and weapons. Our "example" of terrorism means squat to the dead Parisians......or Bali or Madrd or 9/11 or Mombassa or Casablanca or Marriot Hotel or Istanbul or.....or.... |
|
|
|
Post by franko on Nov 23, 2015 7:03:41 GMT -5
Canada's Syrian refugee plan limited to women, children and families
Unaccompanied men not included because of ongoing security concerns The federal government's much-anticipated Syrian refugee plan will limit those accepted into Canada to women, children and families only, CBC News has learned. Sources tell CBC News that to deal with some ongoing concerns around security, unaccompanied men seeking asylum will not be part of the program. The details of the plan will be announced Tuesday, but already Canadian officials have been working on the ground to process people. In the last six weeks alone, Canadian authorities have managed to screen about 100 people a day in Lebanon to help the government reach its ambitious of target of getting 25,000 Syrian refugees here by the end of the year. These are on top of the refugees being processed by the United Nations Refugee Agency. The government has so far been mum about both the kind of security screening it is doing and whether it will be limited to refugee camps overseas, or whether some of it will take place in Canada. But last week Public Safety Minister Ralph Goodale said the process will be on top of what the United Nations is already doing. Canada's screening is being co-ordinated across departments, including the RCMP and CSIS. so there ya go, even though it is the CBC . . . |
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 23, 2015 8:13:11 GMT -5
Speaking about moving to the back of the bus, this article pretty much says that the troops are being asked to vacate their quarters in order to make room for the refugees, all of who will be here in a week ... like all servicepersons, if they receive an order, they'll do it ... troops clearing space at CFB Kingston ... might make getting into work kind of interesting ... Cheers. |
|
|
|
Post by CentreHice on Nov 23, 2015 17:24:19 GMT -5
Yes, Islamic extremists can still get into the country somehow…and Canadian citizens can still be radicalized online, at local meeting places, etc.
But it's good to hear that the refugee screening is as thorough as it is.
Interested to see how it goes in Kingston, Dis.
|
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 23, 2015 17:41:44 GMT -5
Interested to see how it goes in Kingston, Dis. The decision to move the troops from their quarters so as to house the refugees, was a reactive decision based on helping the Liberals keep their electoral promise ... the mere notion of displacing the troops is flinch decision made with little to no rational thought ... however, DND is now issuing a statement that they will not be booting soldiers out of accommodations so as to house the refugees ... lots of (mis)information out there ... hard to know what's what and they're arriving on Monday (I think) ... Cheers. |
|
... stopped chuckling now ... back to hockey ... 
