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Post by BadCompany on Nov 25, 2015 10:34:21 GMT -5
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 25, 2015 11:10:44 GMT -5
Read that this morning ... from what I read earlier, Columbus isn't putting his name out there, but at the same time they're not ignoring calls asking about him ... I'd like to know what the asking price is (if any) for Johansen ... if we thought Duschene was expensive ...
Cheers.
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Post by blny on Nov 25, 2015 11:51:14 GMT -5
A fan of his talent, but not his attitude. He's a smug little $%&*, just like Evander Kane. I'd much rather Duchene, if I was picking between the two.
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Post by seventeen on Nov 25, 2015 15:56:44 GMT -5
I'd rather Duchene too, even if his contract is larger. Johansen's won't be 'small' for much longer anyway. I just like Duchene's speed. He has an Olympic gold medal, putting him in elite company and I've never heard anyone complain about his attitude or about a contract problem. Yup, give me Duchene over Johansen.
As an aside, looking up their stats on hockeydb I was looking up the 2009 and 2010 draft years and noticed something about Chicago, that powerhouse. They had a pretty good draft in 2011 picking Saad, Dahlbeck and Shaw in the 2nd, 3rd and 5th rounds, but their overall draft history isn't that good. Kane and Toews were home runs and that's really what's carried them. Seabrook in 2003 and Keith in 2002 were great picks, but if you look from 2004 on, with the exception of the occasional single that everyone is going to hit (2005- Hjalmarsson, 2006 no one after Toews, 2007 no one after Kane, 2008- nada, 2009- Pirri and Kruger meh, 2010- Kevin Hayes and Stephen Johns, 2011- Saad etc., 2012 Terevainen and no one else. Too early to determine after 2012). Most of the decent picks amongst those were late round ones, where guys like Bergevin and Chevaldayoff may have played a role. Their record in the first two rounds, excepting Kane and Toews, isn't good at all. I find that interesting because I thought they had a pretty good scouting group. If you toss out Kane and Toews, first they don't win any Cups and secondly it really changes the appearance of their scouting ability. Terevainen's a good choice, but they've traded away some of their good prospects to win today and solve their CAP issues. I'd say they've begun their slide down the slope toward faux contenders from real contenders. Gotta keep that prospect pipeline full.
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Post by CentreHice on Nov 25, 2015 16:38:29 GMT -5
Crawford has also proven to be an excellent find for the Blackhawks. But that goes back to near the end of Rnd. 2, 2003. Before they sucked enough to get Toews and Kane.
As good as Seabrook, Keith, and Hjalmarsson are….even with Kane and Toews….Crawford has stood on his head more times than not when it really mattered. Arguably the real Conn Smythe winner in 2013.
I bet his 2013 playoff highlight reel is something else….if it exists….(I can't find it.)
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 25, 2015 18:49:51 GMT -5
A fan of his talent, but not his attitude. He's a smug little $%&*, just like Evander Kane. I'd much rather Duchene, if I was picking between the two. This is interesting ... I've followed Johansen for a couple of seasons, but I never knew of his rep ... that wouldn't be welcome with Bergevin ... was listening to some criticism on Patrick Roy and how thankful Tony Marinaro was that he never got the keys in Montreal ... I don't know why the Avs want to trade Duschene, but they'll regret moving him ... won't matter where he goes, the Avs won't get the same player in return ... not sure how Bergevin would free up the cap space without moving some roster players out ... he'd give our club another dimension, though ... Cheers. |
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Post by blny on Nov 25, 2015 21:58:03 GMT -5
A fan of his talent, but not his attitude. He's a smug little $%&*, just like Evander Kane. I'd much rather Duchene, if I was picking between the two. This is interesting ... I've followed Johansen for a couple of seasons, but I never knew of his rep ... that wouldn't be welcome with Bergevin ... was listening to some criticism on Patrick Roy and how thankful Tony Marinaro was that he never got the keys in Montreal ... I don't know why the Avs want to trade Duschene, but they'll regret moving him ... won't matter where he goes, the Avs won't get the same player in return ... not sure how Bergevin would free up the cap space without moving some roster players out ... he'd give our club another dimension, though ... Cheers. I'd have to go looking for the stories, but it goes back a couple of years. I just remember maturity issues. Maybe he's beyond them. |
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Post by jkr on Dec 17, 2015 17:34:28 GMT -5
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Dec 18, 2015 9:14:05 GMT -5
They've got the prospects and they've got the cap space ... wouldn't mind seeing him in Montreal, either, for that matter ... Ryan Johansen's cap hit is only $500,000 more than Lars Eller's ... that said, I've been kind of leery about his present situation ... blny mentioned Johansen's past attitudes and I'm wondering if maybe this situation is a residual of that ... I couldn't tell you one way or the other what the problem is in Columbus, but I get a tad aprehensive when I think of it ... would he pull the same stuff in Montreal, or would he respond positively to a move to a contender ... I'd be willing to take the risk ... he's under contract until 16-17 and Marc Bergevin would have the time to make his evaluation ... that's the world according to me, anyway ... Cheers. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Dec 18, 2015 9:21:04 GMT -5
A fan of his talent, but not his attitude. He's a smug little $%&*, just like Evander Kane. blny, I can't listen to this until I get home, but I found it on the TSN website ... Bob McKenzie points out how Johansen's issues pre-date Tortorella ... and I only found after I made my previous post ... Cheers. |
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Post by blny on Dec 18, 2015 9:31:24 GMT -5
A fan of his talent, but not his attitude. He's a smug little $%&*, just like Evander Kane. blny, I can't listen to this until I get home, but I found it on the TSN website ... Bob McKenzie points out how Johansen's issues pre-date Tortorella ... and I only found after I made my previous post ... Cheers. Yes they go back at least as far as the negotiation of his first deal after ELC. I can't recall specifics, but let's just say the attitude is similar to that of Evander Kane's. I saw Bob's commentary the other day. This latest bit with Torch revolves around, at the very least, the coach perceiving the player wasn't all that invested in a conversation with the players at the bench during a tv time out. After that, Tortorella stapled him to the bench. I believe he was a healthy scratch the following game as well. I'm not about to condemn a player because he doesn't get a long with JT. Lord knows that's a long list of guys - not the least of which is likely Brandon Dubinsky, now of the Jackets formerly of the Rangers. However, it adds to the cloud hovering over the player in this case. All the talent in the world. Big skilled center that any team would covet. But, between the ears is an issue. |
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Post by Boston_Habs on Dec 18, 2015 9:43:12 GMT -5
Galchenyuk and Tinordi for Johansen.
Would you do it?
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Post by BadCompany on Dec 18, 2015 10:23:45 GMT -5
Galchenyuk for Johansen, which is essentially what it would be? I would say no, for the following reasons:
* They have virtually the same stats this year, so you can't really say that one has been better than the other THIS season.
* Johansen has the better past, but it's not like Galchenyuk is a flash in the pan this season. We've been expecting this, and I for one think he's going to continue to get better, this season and into the future. In fact, I think he might end up with more points than Johansen, beginning this year, and will probably be pretty close if not equal for the rest of their careers. Come this spring, in other words, I don't think Johansen is going to be significantly better than Galchenyuk. But that might be just me.
* Johansen has been a contract nightmare in the past, and while that doesn't necessarily mean anything on the ice or in the dressing room (think PK Subban) it's still a factor, and it's still a negative.
* And perhaps the biggest reason… Columbus is in the East.
I'm reluctant to deal a potential superstar to a potential playoff rival. I really don't want to see a motivated Galchenyuk lighting us up several times a season, and again in the playoffs, even if Johansen plays well for us. Call it the John Leclair effect. If we have to deal Galchenyuk - and he's almost untouchable to me - I want it to be out West.
I'm back on the Duchene bandwagon. If we have to make a blockbuster, that would be the guy I would target. Colorado is obviously out West, so even if we give up a future superstar at least we won't see him 8-10 times a years. And Colorado looks like a team that will be out of the playoffs come spring time, so a package of prospects and picks might work for them, as opposed to giving up roster players.
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Post by blny on Dec 18, 2015 10:32:53 GMT -5
Galchenyuk and Tinordi for Johansen. Would you do it? Not even if he had a good attitude. Let's give Alex the line mates that RyJo has had, and see what Alex's numbers are like. I'd still take a stab at Hartnell. He's still productive, and a virtual lock for 20g/50p over an 82 game season. Plus his size and net presence, he'd be a welcome addition even if he isn't extremely fast. |
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Post by Boston_Habs on Dec 18, 2015 11:01:07 GMT -5
It would be a risk and really comes down to talent evaluation. I'm starting to get a little unsure of Galchenyuk's offensive ceiling. Is he really a 30-goal, 70-point guy? I'm not sure. This is his 4th season and Alex is on pace for 17 goals and 52 points. He is slumping with the rest of the team, but I was really looking for Galchenyuk to bust out this year and show his true potential and it's not happening yet. We can't keep making excuses about usage and linemates. Stars make it happen.
Even adjusting for age and experience, Johansen has been the more productive player. He has one season with 33 goals and 63 points and another with 25 goals and 71 points. And it's not like he's playing with elite guys either.
That said, BC you may be right that Galchenyuk catches up to Johansen on points and then why would you bother trading him, and to a conference team no less? So I agree that Duchene might be a better target and could be acquired for less assets, but either way this comes back to what Galchenyuk's ceiling is. The only reason you don't do that trade is if you think Alex is a 30-goal, 60-70 point guy at minimum. I'm still not sure he is. At least Johansen has actually done it.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Dec 18, 2015 11:24:49 GMT -5
I'm back on the Duchene bandwagon. If we have to make a blockbuster, that would be the guy I would target. Colorado is obviously out West, so even if we give up a future superstar at least we won't see him 8-10 times a years. And Colorado looks like a team that will be out of the playoffs come spring time, so a package of prospects and picks might work for them, as opposed to giving up roster players. If we're looking for someone to play with Galchenyuk, then I'd consider him as a winger on Duchene's line ... I don't know what it would cost to bring in Duchene, though ... you mentioned before that it might take package involving Galchenyuk ... but you know, I think of the team with Duschene at centre and it looks really good ... Duschene, McCarron, Plekanec (maybe?), Desharnais/Hudon ... is that so far-fetched ... Cheers. |
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Post by blny on Dec 18, 2015 11:25:22 GMT -5
It would be a risk and really comes down to talent evaluation. I'm starting to get a little unsure of Galchenyuk's offensive ceiling. Is he really a 30-goal, 70-point guy? I'm not sure. This is his 4th season and Alex is on pace for 17 goals and 52 points. He is slumping with the rest of the team, but I was really looking for Galchenyuk to bust out this year and show his true potential and it's not happening yet. We can't keep making excuses about usage and linemates. Stars make it happen. Is he a prime Sidney at this point? No. He's also never had Mario to mentor him. He hasn't had nearly the quality of line mates that Sid has, and it's a common complaint that Sid's line mates over the years (recently in particular) left a lot to be desired. IMO, we can't even begin to postulate Alex's ceiling until he's given at least one legitimate 30 goal scorer in his prime to play with. |
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Post by Gogie on Dec 18, 2015 16:32:56 GMT -5
It would be a risk and really comes down to talent evaluation. I'm starting to get a little unsure of Galchenyuk's offensive ceiling. Is he really a 30-goal, 70-point guy? I'm not sure. This is his 4th season and Alex is on pace for 17 goals and 52 points. He is slumping with the rest of the team, but I was really looking for Galchenyuk to bust out this year and show his true potential and it's not happening yet. We can't keep making excuses about usage and linemates. Stars make it happen. Is he a prime Sidney at this point? No. He's also never had Mario to mentor him. He hasn't had nearly the quality of line mates that Sid has, and it's a common complaint that Sid's line mates over the years (recently in particular) left a lot to be desired. IMO, we can't even begin to postulate Alex's ceiling until he's given at least one legitimate 30 goal scorer in his prime to play with. Sounds like he might be the second coming of Saku Koivu. Tons of talent but no support. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Dec 18, 2015 17:15:23 GMT -5
It would be a risk and really comes down to talent evaluation. I'm starting to get a little unsure of Galchenyuk's offensive ceiling. Is he really a 30-goal, 70-point guy? I'm not sure. This is his 4th season and Alex is on pace for 17 goals and 52 points. He is slumping with the rest of the team, but I was really looking for Galchenyuk to bust out this year and show his true potential and it's not happening yet. We can't keep making excuses about usage and linemates. Stars make it happen. Is he a prime Sidney at this point? No. He's also never had Mario to mentor him. He hasn't had nearly the quality of line mates that Sid has, and it's a common complaint that Sid's line mates over the years (recently in particular) left a lot to be desired. IMO, we can't even begin to postulate Alex's ceiling until he's given at least one legitimate 30 goal scorer in his prime to play with. I wanted to post something similar but you beat me to it ... give Galchenyuk a veteran goal-scorer on his wing (not named Pacioretty) and then see how he does ... I'd hate moving him out to a team with 3/4 top-6 wingers ... Dallas comes to mind ... I even thought about a guy like James Neale ... not Neale specifically, but a winger like him ... would Patrick Sharpe have been a fit ... could Scott Hartnell help ... here's a veteran guy who has been around the block a few times ... impact winger who still plays a big-man's game ... how about Nick Foligno out of Columbus ... Nathan Beaulieu would probably appreciate seeing him in Montreal, too ... Cheers. |
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Post by stoat on Jan 5, 2016 4:10:07 GMT -5
I don't believe it.
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