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Post by blny on Jan 3, 2016 12:14:50 GMT -5
This statement was released after Drouin was demoted this week. Tampa fans on HF were discussing the latest demotion and it appears it's a coach vs. player situation. Cooper won't give him top 6 minutes and JD isn't a grinder/checker/defensive specialist, so when an incumbent comes back into the lineup he's either scratched or sent down. Posts I've read indicate that people are pissed at Cooper.
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Post by seventeen on Jan 3, 2016 12:41:58 GMT -5
Sounds familiar, huh? Interesting that this is perhaps the second example in Tampa, with Stamkos being the first, of conflict between a valued asset and the coach. It's curious in a way, that Cooper didn't use Stamkos in the shootout against us. Is he that bad at breakaways? Drouin could be another P. Kane, Johnny Gaudreau type of player. Is he that bad defensively? One also asks, why do more than a few coaches resist putting obviously top 6 players in the top 6? I'm not criticizing anyone at this point, I'm just really curious why these situations arise. Cooper has a reputation as a good coach, yet finds himself in this situation. Tampa is not having as good a year this year as last. Are the two situations connected or is it simply a case of more injuries this year and worse goaltending?
While I'd quite like to pick up Drouin, I don't think the possibility is there. Yzerman won't deal a potential game breaker to the Habs. When you look at that draft year, McKinnon, Barkov, Jones, Monoghan, Nurse, Ristolainen, Nicushkin, Horvat, Domi, there's a large number of players who have already established themselves or appear ready to establish themselves, sooner than Drouin. Is that a warning sign?
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Post by blny on Jan 3, 2016 12:59:01 GMT -5
He's had a couple of injuries and he isn't the dynamic skater that Nathan is (for example), but he's got the IQ and skill. He'll never be a physical presence, and that may be where things sour with him and the coach. He's the only one from that draft class not to establish himself, but he's also on a team that's been deeper since that draft. Were he picked by one of the others he would have had an easier time cracking a line up. I don't think it's as much a sign as it is the Bolts drafted the bpa instead of going for the organizational need.
Seth Jones is somewhat mired behind Josi and Weber in Nashville. They also have Ellis and Ekholm. Nashville is starved for offensively creative forwards. Tampa could use help on D. There would appear to be a fit there. Tampa might have to add a small amount given that Jones has been an everyday player.
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Post by Disp on Jan 3, 2016 13:18:57 GMT -5
Can you imagine if MT alienated his best player and best prospect? He'd be crucified.
Cooper is a good coach. Obviously he has a different view on players abilities than they do. I personally think he's right.
Top 6, bottom 6, everyone has to be responsible on the ice. The old, I'm a scorer, I don't play defence crap, doesn't work anymore. There is nothing wrong with giving a guy 3rd line/ahl minutes while he figures that out. As a coach, if you don't, you're just enabling them and you'll never really get anywhere. As an added bonus, no one else will buy in.
Drouin is a good talent, and I'd like that talent in our system, but it would be a nightmare for our gm and coach. Do the right thing, 90% of the media/fans will hate you, cave in, and you'll lose the room.
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Post by duster on Jan 3, 2016 18:18:45 GMT -5
I don't see how we can get him. Besides the fact that I doubt Yzerman trades him to a divisional rival, he would ask for a return that would reflect where Drouin was picked in a strong draft year rather than his current production. We don't have the horses for that kind of deal.
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Post by blny on Jan 3, 2016 18:37:42 GMT -5
Some have compared the situation to that of the Turris deal to Ottawa. It is similar.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2016 22:59:23 GMT -5
Very young; 20 years old. But is 5'11", 188 lbs. Even if we were a viable trading partner for Tampa, would we really want "more of the same?" A Gallagher he is not.
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Post by blny on Jan 3, 2016 23:06:39 GMT -5
Very young; 20 years old. But is 5'11", 188 lbs. Even if we were a viable trading partner for Tampa, would we really want "more of the same?" A Gallagher he is not. I personally don't think he's a perfect fit. He is a cerebral player, working the outside, trying to find people to get the puck to. We have a lot of that, though his ceiling is high. He played a lot of center in Halifax, which suited him. Tampa has been grooming him for lw. I think he could be the MSL type, and perhaps that is what they've been hoping - to pair him with Stamkos in the same role - but he has to get that chance. He's been pigeon-holed largely. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jan 4, 2016 8:28:06 GMT -5
Heard an interesting comment on the way into work this morning ... TSN690 pointed out that the coaches have distanced themselves from Steven Stamkos and now Jonathan Drouin wants out of Tampa ... can you imagine the media Scheiße Sturm if this was the scenario in Montreal ...
Cheers.
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Post by blny on Jan 4, 2016 8:40:14 GMT -5
There's definitely blood in the water.
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Post by Anardil1 on Jan 4, 2016 11:03:21 GMT -5
He's had a couple of injuries and he isn't the dynamic skater that Nathan is (for example), but he's got the IQ and skill. He'll never be a physical presence, and that may be where things sour with him and the coach. He's the only one from that draft class not to establish himself, but he's also on a team that's been deeper since that draft. Were he picked by one of the others he would have had an easier time cracking a line up. I don't think it's as much a sign as it is the Bolts drafted the bpa instead of going for the organizational need. Seth Jones is somewhat mired behind Josi and Weber in Nashville. They also have Ellis and Ekholm. Nashville is starved for offensively creative forwards. Tampa could use help on D. There would appear to be a fit there. Tampa might have to add a small amount given that Jones has been an everyday player. THIS. He hasn't been better than any current player on the top 6. He hasn't been better than the players that were put in the top 6 when injuries hit. He has no power in this situation, and IMHO Yzerman is too intelligent of a GM to fumble this situation. If Montreal is interested, they will have to pay the highest price simply because of the following factors: 1- Interdivision teams. 2- A growing and sometimes contentious rivalry. 3- Drouin is French Canadian. If the Habs acquire Drouin, we will all hate the price that Bergevin will have paid. I can see BLNY's scenario happening. |
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Post by folatre on Jan 4, 2016 21:27:46 GMT -5
As an organisation, Montreal lacks high end forward depth. So of course there is interest when a player like Drouin is unsettled. For me, he is never going to be a franchise stature player, but he would look good between Pacioretty and Gallagher or on the wing of a sniping centreman like Galchenyuk.
But enough dreaming, as many here say the cost would surely be prohibitive considering Tampa is in same division.
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Post by jkr on Jan 4, 2016 22:11:17 GMT -5
Heard an interesting comment on the way into work this morning ... TSN690 pointed out that the coaches have distanced themselves from Steven Stamkos and now Jonathan Drouin wants out of Tampa ... can you imagine the media Scheiße Sturm if this was the scenario in Montreal ... Cheers. Don't know if they are backing away from Stamkos. Just looked at the ESPN game log. He was over 20 minutes per game in December in all games save one. And after a drought he has 5 goals since Dec 18th. I think some of the media comments are wishful thinking. |
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Post by stoat on Jan 5, 2016 4:13:14 GMT -5
Sounds familiar, huh? Interesting that this is perhaps the second example in Tampa, with Stamkos being the first, of conflict between a valued asset and the coach. It's curious in a way, that Cooper didn't use Stamkos in the shootout against us. Is he that bad at breakaways? Drouin could be another P. Kane, Johnny Gaudreau type of player. Is he that bad defensively? One also asks, why do more than a few coaches resist putting obviously top 6 players in the top 6? I'm not criticizing anyone at this point, I'm just really curious why these situations arise. Cooper has a reputation as a good coach, yet finds himself in this situation. Tampa is not having as good a year this year as last. Are the two situations connected or is it simply a case of more injuries this year and worse goaltending? While I'd quite like to pick up Drouin, I don't think the possibility is there. Yzerman won't deal a potential game breaker to the Habs. When you look at that draft year, McKinnon, Barkov, Jones, Monoghan, Nurse, Ristolainen, Nicushkin, Horvat, Domi, there's a large number of players who have already established themselves or appear ready to establish themselves, sooner than Drouin. Is that a warning sign? Has Tampax been playing well? Could that have something to do with it> |
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Post by Tankdriver on Jan 5, 2016 10:26:32 GMT -5
Sounds familiar, huh? Interesting that this is perhaps the second example in Tampa, with Stamkos being the first, of conflict between a valued asset and the coach. It's curious in a way, that Cooper didn't use Stamkos in the shootout against us. Is he that bad at breakaways? Drouin could be another P. Kane, Johnny Gaudreau type of player. Is he that bad defensively? One also asks, why do more than a few coaches resist putting obviously top 6 players in the top 6? I'm not criticizing anyone at this point, I'm just really curious why these situations arise. Cooper has a reputation as a good coach, yet finds himself in this situation. Tampa is not having as good a year this year as last. Are the two situations connected or is it simply a case of more injuries this year and worse goaltending? While I'd quite like to pick up Drouin, I don't think the possibility is there. Yzerman won't deal a potential game breaker to the Habs. When you look at that draft year, McKinnon, Barkov, Jones, Monoghan, Nurse, Ristolainen, Nicushkin, Horvat, Domi, there's a large number of players who have already established themselves or appear ready to establish themselves, sooner than Drouin. Is that a warning sign? Has Tampax been playing well? Could that have something to do with it> Nope. They've been a bloody mess!  |
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Post by blny on Jan 5, 2016 11:24:11 GMT -5
Sanitary products aside, Larry Brooks is reporting, and Bob McKenzie sharing, that the Rangers are amongst a group of teams that have inquired. Brooks reporting a source says they're pushing hard.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2016 19:37:32 GMT -5
So...
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Post by drkcloud on Jan 6, 2016 20:30:15 GMT -5
I wonder if Tinordi would be enough. Both players in similar situations |
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Post by blny on Jan 6, 2016 21:04:44 GMT -5
Ryjo for Jones sort of sets the bar imo. Johansen is a center who's had a 70 point season and a 60 point season. Big and skilled, but questions about his attitude. He netted a defender with size, great skating, and untapped offensive potential who just couldn't seem to supplant anyone from the established top 4 in Nashville. #4 for #4.
Drouin's get less value than Johansen, but by quite a bit imo. Tinordi is our own struggling first rounder. There's been chatter from his family about moving on to another team to get a chance. Given where he was selected, Berg would likely have to add, but perhaps not a lot. I certainly wouldn't be inclined to add a first. Looking at the above, I think Tinner and a 2nd would be equivalent in value.
All that said, Drouin isn't our solution. He's a piece, but not the solution. Montreal needs a big forward. A bigger Gallagher. If they could work out a deal for value for him, then contact the Jackets about Hartnell, I think Berg would have done a good job.
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Post by drkcloud on Jan 6, 2016 21:20:22 GMT -5
Ryjo for Jones sort of sets the bar imo. Johansen is a center who's had a 70 point season and a 60 point season. Big and skilled, but questions about his attitude. He netted a defender with size, great skating, and untapped offensive potential who just couldn't seem to supplant anyone from the established top 4 in Nashville. #4 for #4. Drouin's get less value than Johansen, but quite a bit imo. Tinordi is our own struggling first rounder. There's been chatter from his family about moving on to another team to get a chance. Given where he was selected, Berg would likely have to add, but perhaps not a lot. I certainly wouldn't be inclined to add a first. Looking at the above, I think Tinner and a 2nd would be equivalent in value. All that said, Drouin isn't our solution. He's a piece, but not the solution. Montreal needs a big forward. A bigger Gallagher. If they could work out a deal for value for him, then contact the Jackets about Hartnell, I think Berg would have done a good job. Nice assessment BLNY.Drouin would be a nice addition but is probably cost prohibitive. Kypreos talking that Galchenyuk would be the cost which is a non starter. I'd also be interested in Hartnett but I wonder about his speed |
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Post by blny on Jan 6, 2016 21:59:12 GMT -5
Ryjo for Jones sort of sets the bar imo. Johansen is a center who's had a 70 point season and a 60 point season. Big and skilled, but questions about his attitude. He netted a defender with size, great skating, and untapped offensive potential who just couldn't seem to supplant anyone from the established top 4 in Nashville. #4 for #4. Drouin's get less value than Johansen, but quite a bit imo. Tinordi is our own struggling first rounder. There's been chatter from his family about moving on to another team to get a chance. Given where he was selected, Berg would likely have to add, but perhaps not a lot. I certainly wouldn't be inclined to add a first. Looking at the above, I think Tinner and a 2nd would be equivalent in value. All that said, Drouin isn't our solution. He's a piece, but not the solution. Montreal needs a big forward. A bigger Gallagher. If they could work out a deal for value for him, then contact the Jackets about Hartnell, I think Berg would have done a good job. Nice assessment BLNY.Drouin would be a nice addition but is probably cost prohibitive. Kypreos talking that Galchenyuk would be the cost which is a non starter. I'd also be interested in Hartnett but I wonder about his speed Thanks. Scott doesn't have great foot speed anymore, but that's not a huge concern for me. He's still producing offensively. He's got 15g and 30p in 40g for a bad Columbus team. There's enough team speed in Montreal that the can afford a slower guy who still plays a big game and contributes statistically. He could be the trailer on plays, and he can set up in the slot effectively. He's no slower than Jagr, that's for sure. He's got 3 years left at a hit of $4.75 million. That would be the biggest concern, but he's still producing. He had a bad lockout year, but rebounded with 52 and 60 points the last two years respectively, and the 60 points he's on pace for now. He's had a 20 and 28 goal season. The 15 this year puts him in a similar track. He'd be second in points and goals for us. I'd really want to send salary back. Jackets need help on D, and they're a lottery team. Their GM, Kekelainen, drafted Eller when he was in St Louis. I wonder if there'd be interest. Say, Eller, Juulsen and a pick. Eller is the cap dump. Juulsen gives them a promising defender for the future. If they wanted a more established defender, I could consider Beaulieu but it would negate the pick. |
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Post by seventeen on Jan 7, 2016 0:59:54 GMT -5
Too much. Eller even up or with a B level prospect like Ellis or Dietz.
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Post by blny on Jan 7, 2016 6:36:33 GMT -5
Too much. Eller even up or with a B level prospect like Ellis or Dietz. Given the league's starving nature for goals, the fact he's still producing, and the number of teams that might call, I don't see a tweener like Eller being enough. I don't think the cap savings for the Jackets is enough to give up Hartnell straight up. Would have to sweeten it a little. |
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Post by CentreHice on Jan 7, 2016 12:21:40 GMT -5
Marinaro's musings on the upside to getting Drouin….
He's a highly-skilled player…only 20…
He's from Quebec, and would have a great shot at being the Habs' first French-Canadian forward star since Damphousse…maybe Turgeon.
-============================================================
It would give us two consecutive 3rd overall picks (2012 and 2013).
Isn't it about time Bergevin pulled the trigger on a big deal?
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Post by Marvin on Jan 7, 2016 12:22:17 GMT -5
Nice assessment BLNY.Drouin would be a nice addition but is probably cost prohibitive. Kypreos talking that Galchenyuk would be the cost which is a non starter. I'd also be interested in Hartnett but I wonder about his speed Thanks. Scott doesn't have great foot speed anymore, but that's not a huge concern for me. He's still producing offensively. He's got 15g and 30p in 40g for a bad Columbus team. There's enough team speed in Montreal that the can afford a slower guy who still plays a big game and contributes statistically. He could be the trailer on plays, and he can set up in the slot effectively. He's no slower than Jagr, that's for sure. He's got 3 years left at a hit of $4.75 million. That would be the biggest concern, but he's still producing. He had a bad lockout year, but rebounded with 52 and 60 points the last two years respectively, and the 60 points he's on pace for now. He's had a 20 and 28 goal season. The 15 this year puts him in a similar track. He'd be second in points and goals for us. I'd really want to send salary back. Jackets need help on D, and they're a lottery team. Their GM, Kekelainen, drafted Eller when he was in St Louis. I wonder if there'd be interest. Say, Eller, Juulsen and a pick. Eller is the cap dump. Juulsen gives them a promising defender for the future. If they wanted a more established defender, I could consider Beaulieu but it would negate the pick. Listening to P McGuire a couple of days ago and which Habs prospects he'd be comfortable giving up in a trade for Drouin, he said that the only two he WOULD NOT TRADE would be McCarron ("I'd be hesitant because he fills a need for Montreal), and Juulsen ("I think he has a chance to be a very special player"). |
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Post by BadCompany on Jan 7, 2016 12:34:10 GMT -5
Marinaro's musings on the upside to getting Drouin…. He's a highly-skilled player…only 20… He's from Quebec, and would have a great shot at being the Habs' first French-Canadian forward star since Damphousse…maybe Turgeon. -============================================================ It would give us two consecutive 3rd overall picks (2012 and 2013). Isn't it about time Bergevin pulled the trigger on a big deal? Assuming the cost isn't Galchenyuk, of course. EDIT: I mean, that would be a reasonable cost, don't you think? Two 3rd overalls traded for each other? Ours is more proven at this point, but theirs is the local boy that could be worth millions in jersey sales. Would you do that deal? |
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Post by CentreHice on Jan 7, 2016 12:43:22 GMT -5
I'm not in a position to know all the variables that would go into a decision like that…..
But if I knew it was mainly for the merchandising revenue….then that's very cynical on management/ownership's part….and they'd likely lose me as a fan…
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Post by blny on Jan 7, 2016 12:55:52 GMT -5
Thanks. Scott doesn't have great foot speed anymore, but that's not a huge concern for me. He's still producing offensively. He's got 15g and 30p in 40g for a bad Columbus team. There's enough team speed in Montreal that the can afford a slower guy who still plays a big game and contributes statistically. He could be the trailer on plays, and he can set up in the slot effectively. He's no slower than Jagr, that's for sure. He's got 3 years left at a hit of $4.75 million. That would be the biggest concern, but he's still producing. He had a bad lockout year, but rebounded with 52 and 60 points the last two years respectively, and the 60 points he's on pace for now. He's had a 20 and 28 goal season. The 15 this year puts him in a similar track. He'd be second in points and goals for us. I'd really want to send salary back. Jackets need help on D, and they're a lottery team. Their GM, Kekelainen, drafted Eller when he was in St Louis. I wonder if there'd be interest. Say, Eller, Juulsen and a pick. Eller is the cap dump. Juulsen gives them a promising defender for the future. If they wanted a more established defender, I could consider Beaulieu but it would negate the pick. Listening to P McGuire a couple of days ago and which Habs prospects he'd be comfortable giving up in a trade for Drouin, he said that the only two he WOULD NOT TRADE would be McCarron ("I'd be hesitant because he fills a need for Montreal), and Juulsen ("I think he has a chance to be a very special player"). Juulsen does look very good. No doubt. It's up to the amateur scouts, pro scouts, and development staff at Berg's disposal to try and determine his ceiling and how soon he gets there. Let's look at Beaulieu. Nathan just turned 23. He's been brought along steadily and earned his spot. If we swapped out Juulsen for Beaulieu, how long would we have to wait for the kid to make the jump? How long before he's playing in the NHL at the level that Beaulieu is right now? I try to keep in mind that Markov has another year left. The fact that Beaulieu has taken first pair minutes from Markov of late shows that the team sees him in the same way many do: Andrei's replacement. By moving Nathan, we potentially rush Juulsen. The current coaching staff and mgt like lhd D on the left and vice versa. Moving Beaulieu means there's really no one ready to slide into that role. Petry is a rhd right side guy. Pateryn too. Tinordi is an unrealistic thought. Emelin? No. Barberio? Maybe. Without Beaulieu, post Markov you're looking at: ******-Subban Emelin/Barberio-Petry Emelin/Barberio-Pateryn Tinordi? Sure, Berg could look to the UFA market, but Nathan has another year at a very cheap $1 million. When Markov comes off the books, you can look to lock him down. Still an RFA, hopefully they can by some UFA years and get him for Emelin money long term. Juulsen is still a prospect. A very good one, but still a prospect. If moved, we should be able to find a similar player in the coming draft and only have given up a year in development to address a dire need in Montreal. Beaulieu is a known, burgeoning, commodity, and a lot harder to replace. |
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Post by blny on Jan 7, 2016 12:57:02 GMT -5
Marinaro's musings on the upside to getting Drouin…. He's a highly-skilled player…only 20… He's from Quebec, and would have a great shot at being the Habs' first French-Canadian forward star since Damphousse…maybe Turgeon. -============================================================ It would give us two consecutive 3rd overall picks (2012 and 2013). Isn't it about time Bergevin pulled the trigger on a big deal? Assuming the cost isn't Galchenyuk, of course. EDIT: I mean, that would be a reasonable cost, don't you think? Two 3rd overalls traded for each other? Ours is more proven at this point, but theirs is the local boy that could be worth millions in jersey sales. Would you do that deal? Not a chance. Galch is miles ahead at this point. Besides, how many 'great white hopes' have we seen crash and burn in Montreal? I've lost count. |
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Post by seventeen on Jan 7, 2016 14:18:23 GMT -5
Marinaro's musings on the upside to getting Drouin…. He's a highly-skilled player…only 20… He's from Quebec, and would have a great shot at being the Habs' first French-Canadian forward star since Damphousse…maybe Turgeon. -============================================================ It would give us two consecutive 3rd overall picks (2012 and 2013). Isn't it about time Bergevin pulled the trigger on a big deal? Assuming the cost isn't Galchenyuk, of course. EDIT: I mean, that would be a reasonable cost, don't you think? Two 3rd overalls traded for each other? Ours is more proven at this point, but theirs is the local boy that could be worth millions in jersey sales. Would you do that deal? I'm getting more and more tempted. Drouin's draft class was better than Chucky's, but if Chuck was healthy all year, he might have gone first overall. Still, the depth of the two drafts was quite different. Also, I'm not liking what I'm seeing from Chuck lately. He's been stickhandling and not quite getting off a shot or a final pass. Is it just a learning phase or something more serious? I think Berg is taking this very seriously because Drouin is a local boy and we have a dearth of those, especially talented local boys. The big question is what do you think Drouin is going to become? Another Patrick Kane or another Desharnais? A game breaker or another 3rd/2nd liner? |
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