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Post by blny on Jan 6, 2016 10:29:03 GMT -5
We discussed whether he's lost the room, etc. Some have hinted at who they might hire. I've said that firing the coach is only half the equation. The other half is deciding on the replacement.
If Therrien were fired today, who would you hire to be his replacement and who would you want for assistants? Do you think Bergevin and maybe Dudley (who has bench experience) should spend a week behind the bench before making a decision? Would you let the French language debate affect your decision?
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Post by franko on Jan 6, 2016 10:33:44 GMT -5
Would you let the French language debate affect your decision? I wouldn't but you'd better believe it would play into it.
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Post by blny on Jan 6, 2016 11:01:30 GMT -5
Would you let the French language debate affect your decision? I wouldn't but you'd better believe it would play into it. No doubt, but let's hear what people would do given the opportunity. I haven't been able to decide who I'd select for my head coach. I just know that language wouldn't be a factor in my choice and I'd ignore the heat from the media. My only certainty would be hiring Robinson in whatever capacity he wanted.
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Post by franko on Jan 6, 2016 11:13:23 GMT -5
I wouldn't but you'd better believe it would play into it. No doubt, but let's hear what people would do given the opportunity. I haven't been able to decide who I'd select for my head coach. I just know that language wouldn't be a factor in my choice and I'd ignore the heat from the media. My only certainty would be hiring Robinson in whatever capacity he wanted. with a solid apology that it took so long. still working on it/thinking through myself (you'd think that I'duve done that from day one of the MT regime), but my first priority would be to have someone with NHL experience -- no more rookie coaches in Montreal for the time being.
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Post by Skilly on Jan 6, 2016 11:25:01 GMT -5
If Therrien was fired, Bergevin will undoubtably hire Boucher .... I do not want Boucher
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Post by CentreHice on Jan 6, 2016 11:42:44 GMT -5
All I can say is thank the hockey gods that Scotty Bowman's bilingual…
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jan 6, 2016 12:09:27 GMT -5
If Therrien was fired, Bergevin will undoubtably hire Boucher .... I do not want Boucher The emotion factor? Cheers.
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Post by habsorbed on Jan 6, 2016 12:34:10 GMT -5
Any interim coach will do. Try an anglo as an interim and the media can't say much as it is desperate times and any port in the storm. If the interim does well then hire him/her permanently and the media can pound sand.
But please get rid of MT. He is not only throwing away the season, he has and is damaging good young players, perhaps permanently.
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Post by habsorbed on Jan 6, 2016 12:43:08 GMT -5
ITCS - It's the coach stupid! Or is it ITSC - It's the stupid coach. Either way fire the bum!
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Post by blny on Jan 6, 2016 12:48:27 GMT -5
I'm neither pro Boucher or anti Boucher. Quenneville's got another season on his contract. He's a hard-nosed kinda guy, but he gets the best out of his players and they seem to have his back. Outside of Babcock, I think you're hard pressed to find someone better than Joel. I don't see him leaving, but he and Marc certainly have history together.
I would love to bring in a head man of his caliber. Then, get Larry. Even if he only wants to consult with the D a few times a month like some goalie coaches with their goalies, I don't care. If he wants to come in full time, and be behind the bench, fantastic. He has said he doesn't care to be a head coach, so he should in no way be threatening to any HC hired. Then I'd bring in a young guy. Ducharme from the Mooseheads. Dominique is going to get a shot soon. Bring him in. Start him small, and add to his duties as time goes on and he progresses.
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Post by CentreHice on Jan 6, 2016 12:54:00 GMT -5
I'm neither pro Boucher or anti Boucher. Quenneville's got another season on his contract. He's a hard-nosed kinda guy, but he gets the best out of his players and they seem to have his back. Outside of Babcock, I think you're hard pressed to find someone better than Joel. I don't see him leaving, but he and Marc certainly have history together. I would love to bring in a head man of his caliber. Then, get Larry. Even if he only wants to consult with the D a few times a month like some goalie coaches with their goalies, I don't care. If he wants to come in full time, and be behind the bench, fantastic. He has said he doesn't care to be a head coach, so he should in no way be threatening to any HC hired. Then I'd bring in a young guy. Ducharme from the Mooseheads. Dominique is going to get a shot soon. Bring him in. Start him small, and add to his duties as time goes on and he progresses. I wouldn't think a GM like Stan Bowman, with his dad in his ear, would let go of a quality coach like Quenneville.
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Post by blny on Jan 6, 2016 13:01:09 GMT -5
I'm neither pro Boucher or anti Boucher. Quenneville's got another season on his contract. He's a hard-nosed kinda guy, but he gets the best out of his players and they seem to have his back. Outside of Babcock, I think you're hard pressed to find someone better than Joel. I don't see him leaving, but he and Marc certainly have history together. I would love to bring in a head man of his caliber. Then, get Larry. Even if he only wants to consult with the D a few times a month like some goalie coaches with their goalies, I don't care. If he wants to come in full time, and be behind the bench, fantastic. He has said he doesn't care to be a head coach, so he should in no way be threatening to any HC hired. Then I'd bring in a young guy. Ducharme from the Mooseheads. Dominique is going to get a shot soon. Bring him in. Start him small, and add to his duties as time goes on and he progresses. I wouldn't think a GM like Stan Bowman, with his dad in his ear, would let go of a quality coach like Quenneville. Me neither. Just spit-balling who would be considered the best coach.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Jan 6, 2016 13:14:04 GMT -5
…how many coaches or GMs do we have to go through before realizing that some of these players have been there for way too long without bringing the team any kind of success. With Price gone we can clearly see that the emperor has no clothes. That these great standings over the past few seasons are nothing but the effect of a goalie pulling his team forward almost singlehandedly. 4 seasons in and Bergevin is still mostly running on the fumes of what his predecessors left behind.
Firing Therien would undoubtedly mean promoting Lefebvre and that would be far, far, faaaaaaaaar worst.
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Post by blny on Jan 6, 2016 13:18:12 GMT -5
Firing Therien would undoubtedly mean promoting Lefebvre and that would be far, far, faaaaaaaaar worst. Not necessarily. Trying to steer it back to the original question though, who would you (and skilly) hire?
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Post by seventeen on Jan 6, 2016 13:29:41 GMT -5
If Therrien was fired, Bergevin will undoubtably hire Boucher .... I do not want Boucher And I do want Boucher. Skilly, just why do you think he's a bad choice? I'm willing to listen, but keep one thing in mind, that the best coach in the world can't help a team with poor goaltending. The coach ends up adjusting, by playing the trap, a crappy system.
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Post by CentreHice on Jan 6, 2016 13:40:54 GMT -5
…how many coaches or GMs do we have to go through before realizing that some of these players have been there for way too long without bringing the team any kind of success. With Price gone we can clearly see that the emperor has no clothes. That these great standings over the past few seasons are nothing but the effect of a goalie pulling his team forward almost singlehandedly. 4 seasons in and Bergevin is still mostly running on the fumes of what his predecessors left behind. Amen. And for the vast majority of those years, we've had Desharnais and Plekanec flipping between the #1 and #2 centre roles. Ice-time would STILL support that, by and large… Price has kept us in countless games that would've been out of control in the hands of a mere mortal…. The GM hasn't built appropriately with regard to scoring strength in the Top 6 (look what happened when the spark plug was injured). And the coach's systems are no longer being bailed out….. Maybe that's why MB feels allegiance to MT….both owe a lot of their praise to Price….. And the players know it…even Price….imagine what's going on in their heads…..
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Post by habsorbed on Jan 6, 2016 14:31:19 GMT -5
…how many coaches or GMs do we have to go through before realizing that some of these players have been there for way too long without bringing the team any kind of success. With Price gone we can clearly see that the emperor has no clothes. That these great standings over the past few seasons are nothing but the effect of a goalie pulling his team forward almost singlehandedly. 4 seasons in and Bergevin is still mostly running on the fumes of what his predecessors left behind. Amen. And for the vast majority of those years, we've had Desharnais and Plekanec flipping between the #1 and #2 centre roles. Ice-time would STILL support that, by and large… Price has kept us in countless games that would've been out of control in the hands of a mere mortal…. The GM hasn't built appropriately with regard to scoring strength in the Top 6 (look what happened when the spark plug was injured). And the coach's systems are no longer being bailed out….. Maybe that's why MB feels allegiance to MT….both owe a lot of their praise to Price….. And the players know it…even Price….imagine what's going on in their heads….. I agree MB has done nothing to improve the core of this team and has carried on with the second hand junk. But when you say "the players know it", i'm wondering who that might be. As presumably these are the same players who should have been dumped. Is Pleks thinking i'd wish they'd dump Markov? And Markov thinking I can't believe DD is still playing for us? Are the bottom 6 thinking the other 5 are useless? Perhaps none of them are prepared to look in the mirror. Problem is leaders should be the first people looking in the mirror. Then again maybe it's PK and Max that have recognized they can't go far with this crew. Sad if that's our leadership's reaction. Bottom line is MB had no business signing Pleks who has been a long standing problem as a top centre. Nor should he have signed Markov again. Particularly for the money they're both getting. Sure they're old guard and there's a place for loyalty. But that cuts both ways. If Pleks wanted to stay then he can sign for $2.5. But that contract was ridiculous as was Markov's at that amount.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jan 6, 2016 14:46:23 GMT -5
…how many coaches or GMs do we have to go through before realizing that some of these players have been there for way too long without bringing the team any kind of success. With Price gone we can clearly see that the emperor has no clothes. That these great standings over the past few seasons are nothing but the effect of a goalie pulling his team forward almost singlehandedly. 4 seasons in and Bergevin is still mostly running on the fumes of what his predecessors left behind. Firing Therien would undoubtedly mean promoting Lefebvre and that would be far, far, faaaaaaaaar worst. How many of the current roster played under Jacques Martin ... that team quit on Martin as well ... might make for a pattern ... Cheers.
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Post by habsorbed on Jan 6, 2016 14:58:18 GMT -5
With the skating team MB has assembled we need an offensive minded coach. Particularly given we have Carey to shut the door on the defensive break downs which may increase. Think Oilers - Fuhr.
Very impressed how Ruff has changed his style to suit the skaters he has on Dallas. Completely different than style he employed with the Sabres. MT is not capable of that kind of adjustment.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Jan 6, 2016 15:07:39 GMT -5
Firing Therien would undoubtedly mean promoting Lefebvre and that would be far, far, faaaaaaaaar worst. I would be breaking my legs falling off the Berg bandwagon if that was to happen. His coaching choices (other than snagging Waite - brilliant) and the amount of unwarranted leash that he has given brutal coaches (I am talking about you here Sylvain - only one winning record, no playoff spots, and one dead last record since you arrived 3+ long, long seasons ago) are quite clearly some of his biggest Achilles heels.
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Post by habsorbed on Jan 6, 2016 15:11:31 GMT -5
Firing Therien would undoubtedly mean promoting Lefebvre and that would be far, far, faaaaaaaaar worst. I would be breaking my legs falling off the Berg bandwagon if that was to happen. His coaching choices (other than snagging Waite - brilliant) and the amount of unwarranted leash that he has given brutal coaches (I am talking about you here Sylvain - only one winning record, no playoff spots, and one dead last record since you arrived 3+ long, long seasons ago) are quite clearly some of his biggest Achilles heels. Yup. And getting Waite was probably more fortuitous in that they worked in Chi together and Waite is a franco. Haven;t seen MB spot any coaching talent on the free market.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jan 6, 2016 15:48:58 GMT -5
Was listening to TSN690 on the way home and they suggested not moving the coach out until the GM gives him a decent roster to coach with ... I'm glad I heard that ... gave me another perspective ...
Cheers.
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Post by habsorbed on Jan 6, 2016 16:47:28 GMT -5
Was listening to TSN690 on the way home and they suggested not moving the coach out until the GM gives him a decent roster to coach with ... I'm glad I heard that ... gave me another perspective ... Cheers. So the coach has a Hart Trophy winner and a Norris winner and the captain has been one of the leagues highest goal scorers over the past 3 years. I guess we could try to get MT an Art Ross winner and a Selke winner
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jan 6, 2016 17:02:12 GMT -5
Was listening to TSN690 on the way home and they suggested not moving the coach out until the GM gives him a decent roster to coach with ... I'm glad I heard that ... gave me another perspective ... Cheers. So the coach has a Hart Trophy winner and a Norris winner and the captain has been one of the leagues highest goal scorers over the past 3 years. I guess we could try to get MT an Art Ross winner and a Selke winner I'm thinking they were referring to the support players ... he mentioned names like Fleischmann, Desharnais, and a few other players who have disappeared ... edit: as CH pointed out in another thread, the priority should be upgrade the top-six and I think that's where Melnick might have been going with it ... should be able to pull it up on TSN690 radio later ... Cheers.
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Post by blny on Jan 6, 2016 17:13:16 GMT -5
With the skating team MB has assembled we need an offensive minded coach. Particularly given we have Carey to shut the door on the defensive break downs which may increase. Think Oilers - Fuhr. Very impressed how Ruff has changed his style to suit the skaters he has on Dallas. Completely different than style he employed with the Sabres. MT is not capable of that kind of adjustment. That's an excellent point. He was as big a trap coach as there was - even when he had offensive rosters in Buffalo. He really seems to have embraced the run and gun in Dallas. It's no good having thoroughbreds if you don't let them out of the stables.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Jan 6, 2016 18:01:06 GMT -5
Was listening to TSN690 on the way home and they suggested not moving the coach out until the GM gives him a decent roster to coach with ... I'm glad I heard that ... gave me another perspective ... Cheers. Dis, that is a fair counter perspective to the easy "fire the coach" philosophy that always emerges in cases like this. I think there is another scenario that has been chatted about here quite frequently and needs to be thrown into the mix too...how about proper use of the personnel given to a coach. Eliminate continually trying to fit square pegs (offensive, smaller, skilled guys) into a round hole (grinder, chip off the boards game). If you have a stud potential number one centre, use him in that position, let him make mistakes, but keep giving the ice time and support him to grow into that position. When applying merit to ice time, apply it consistently (don't continue to dish out head scratching anomalies creating the perception - or reality - of playing favourites). Allow rookies to make mistakes and not get benched, be healthy scratches or be demoted to the AHL. Develop young players not named Gallagher, and honestly his work ethic has been the biggest contributor to his development to date. Don't throw free agents under the bus and expect offensive players (even of the extremely faded variety) to suddenly be effective with four line ice time and grinding/energy roles. That last one is a shared GM-coach thing as the GM has to pick the right guys, but again my theme is about optimizing what you have before you scream for more. Despite the winning record since the Berg and MT have taken over, I still think this team and its personnel have not been used to its full potential. I would be at the front of the line asking for another top line winger/scorer (we don't need another "filler" on those top two lines). But I would like to see up optimizing the lineup we have now first. As much as I hear Berg always saying that he and his coach are on the same page, I keep seeing examples that appear to this distant outsider that fly in the face of that claim. The main ways to optimize existing lineups are through personnel usage and style of play/systems (once you have line juggled to death and auditioned callups galore). This is a team built for the open ice not for the boards. This is a team built for having possession of the puck more, not always chasing it or giving it away too easily. It is extremely difficult to maintain a long season of constantly being in pursuit of the puck when you are typically facing bigger lineups. I think we saw the effect of all of this in December and last night. As much as I think get a new coach thing is an "easy" solution, so is just ask for better players. What team does not try to do that and look how many real impactful deals are really made in the NHL these days. Milbury and Gainey are gone and even Garth Snow has wizened up. I am sure that last night's flight home was no fun for either Therrien or Bergevin. And I guarantee that Geoff Molson is taking this all in.
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Post by UberCranky on Jan 6, 2016 18:27:32 GMT -5
You people sre sooooo mean!if he is fired, who is going to hire him again? With his record and 3 firings, he will be permenantly unemployable. Then what? You are calling for human right to a high paying job is going to be violated!
I'm thinking of reporting ALL of you to the Human Rights Macropodidae Court!
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Post by UberCranky on Jan 6, 2016 18:40:58 GMT -5
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Post by folatre on Jan 6, 2016 18:55:25 GMT -5
Quenneville is impossible dream. Lefebvre is too scary to contemplate. I would be okay with Boucher if he would arrange smart, respected assistant like Robinson.
The composition of the roster is flawed, but I cannot accept the premise this organisation has not given Therrien enough pieces to be successful.
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Post by HFTO on Jan 6, 2016 18:56:15 GMT -5
No doubt Habs need better players and this core can play better... if they can't then they have been over rated both in character and talent.
No MT especially No Lefevbre ...since day one have thought coaching is one of this org's weakest link.
Unfortunately if a change does have to come Boucher is your best option mid stream is he the answer I don't know.
What did Red Fischer always say ....show me the players ....coaching aside we need more.
HFTO
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