Lack of up and comers

[seventeen]

AS time has gone along, and you see things like no Hab Prospects in this year's WJC tournament, one wonders just how our scouting is doing. One has to keep in mind that Timmins has been working with little ammunitition. Since 2008 (8 drafts), he's had 6 second round picks and 3 of those were in 2013. Our best 2nd round prospects all seem to be from that draft, Delarose, Lehkonnen and Fucale. There have been 5 drafts where he had no second round picks and one draft, 2008, where he had no first rounder. It's not surprising we're not seeing much ready to come to the Habs. Two of the more skilled prospects, Lekhonnen and Reway are in Europe rather than St. John's so they won't be over next year either, in all likelihood. I don't think Timmins is doing that bad a job, as there are a number of guys who may eventually make the NHL, but very few have the potential to have an impact. McCarron might, Fucale is improving from a terrible start, Hudon may surprise and Scherbak is unknown because of his injury. Nowhere do I see anyone with 60 or 70 point potential. Does that come back on Bergevin for trading so many 2nd rounders? Posters point out the success ratio is low, but if that were the case, unless you have a top 5 pick, perhaps you should trade all your draft choices?

Timmins had a terrific 2007 year with Patches, PK and McDonagh and everyone of his picks in 2013 is either in Montreal, St. John's or in Europe in a good league. That's amazing. They are McCarron, DeLaRose, Fucale, Lehkonnen, Crisp, Andrighetto, Reway and Jeremy Gregoire. But we can't seem to get that top end scorer we need. Maybe if he had more second round choices?

[blny]

I firmly believe that Scherbak and McCarron are up and comers (at the very least). Nikita missed time this year with a concussion. He has the skill to be that dynamic player.

There's no sure fire way to success. The Oilers have been drafting in the top 2 for how long? Draisitil and McDavid may finally turn the ship around (though I'd love to have Hall). The best possible way to get top end scoring talent is to be in the position to draft it. That means identifying a deep draft pool and being lousy enough to draft in the top 3 in a year where high end scoring talent is plentiful. Next, you need to have coaches in place that allow that player to play in the manner for which they were drafted. That means Therrien has to GIVE ice time to skilled kids - like Galchenyuk. He has to give them minutes with similarly skilled players instead of plugs. Once they earn the spot on the roster, it's the coaches job to put them in a position to succeed. Putting skill players in 3rd and 4th line roles doesn't help anyone. Benching them for a mistake doesn't help. Scratching them for the next game doesn't help.

In the end, that means that the coach has to be given some level of assurance that he'll survive the lean time, otherwise he's going to put a team and program in place that serves to cover his butt.

I think there's a big shift. When Carbo was drafted he was a big time skill player. He had more points than Savard in 79-80 and finished second in the league. Savard! Yet, in those days you drafted a guy and then molded him into the player YOU wanted. So, Montreal took a skilled offensive player with a high hockey IQ and turned him into perhaps the best defensive forward of his generation. He was able to put up respectable offensive numbers most of his career as well. What if he were put in a position to score? Maybe he puts up twice as many points over his 1300 game career. Even in different economies, that would have impacted his earning potential.

Well, skill players don't accept that today. If they get drafted based on a certain style of play, they feel they should be put in a position to play that way in the NHL. I can't say that I disagree with that. There's a cache inherent in being able to score. To get to the NHL and be told, "we want you to focus less on scoring and more on stopping the other team. We have other guys that can do that," is defeatist. Maybe the league wouldn't be so starved for offense if they spent less time trying to change players to serve the purpose of protecting the job of the coach.

[BadCompany]

Jan 13, 2016 16:08:12 GMT -5 seventeen said:

Does that come back on Bergevin for trading so many 2nd rounders?

To be fair I believe Bergevin has only traded two second rounders, one in each of the Vanek and Petry deals. And he got one back in the Gorges deal (which hasn't been used yet).

But yeah, I get your point. The cupboard does seem a little barer than usual these days. It could be because some of our better ones are in Europe, or because Scherbak has missed most of the year and that skews the optics, but I personally think it's because a lot of our best kids are already with the big club. We currently have seven players who are 24 or younger on the roster, though admittedly not all of them can be considered core players. But certainly Galchenyuk, Gallagher and Beaulieu can be. We also have three more players who are 25, in Pateryn, Barberio and Condon, and a bunch more in the 26-29 range, including Price, Subban and Pacioretty.

So if the cupboard is a little bare these days I think it's because most of the stockpile has been cooked and is sitting on the kitchen table already. You never want to see the system completely bereft of talent of course, but considering that we are still a pretty young team I'm not too concerned about it.

[seventeen]

Two second rounders this year, so that should improve the odds. Hopefully Timmins can get a PK home run with a scorer instead this year.

[NWTHabsFan]

It is a good draft, so hopefully he finds some gems in the second round in June.

[drkcloud]

TSN just posted their list of top 50 nhl affiliated prospects. We have 1 at #37 that's Lehkonen who I have my doubts about. McCarron and Scherbak didnt make it. Not exactly a ringing endorsement of our scouting and drafting. Or the future

[seventeen]

Craig Those are Button's choices, btw. I believe the Hockey News had their list and they had McCarron at 40 and Lehkonn at 44. In any case, very subjective opinions, especially Button's since it's just one opinion, not a collection. If we at HabsRus put together our list, I would hardly be surprised if our choices ended up succeeding as much or more than Button's.

I think we're right in the middle of a cycle where we were missing some 2nd round choices, while our recent 1st rounders (Chucky and Beaulieu) are already with the team and Tinordi is in Arizona. Thos after that are still developing because we've had a competitive team and an 'unsatisfactory' developer in Lefebvre. It's no surprise that two of the guys I think have the highest upside are both in Europe. Thank god.
We have a first rounder and two seconds in this year's draft. That will help stock the system.

PS, Button has Lehkonnen at #34. Not that it matters much.

[blny]

I'll put this here. Something positive amid the doom and gloom. A nice write up on Lehkonen, who's having a nice season with Frolunda - 15g and 29p in 43 games. 6th in team scoring, and 2nd in goals.

canadiens.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=868944