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Post by jkr on Jun 20, 2016 17:44:45 GMT -5
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Jun 20, 2016 18:10:45 GMT -5
Lots of speculation that the Ducks would move one of their two guys to avoid losing them in the expansion draft.
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Post by folatre on Jun 20, 2016 18:50:25 GMT -5
Certainly I understand Ducks taking this offer if they rate the other guy.
From Leafs perspective, I guess it depends on where his ceiling is.
Taking account he broke in with very good hockey club, his numbers thus far suggest he is above average NHL goalie but nothing more. For those two picks, he needs to deliver five seasons at same level for this to even to be reasonable deal for Toronto. If he finds career plateau somewhat above current level, Leafs management may look smart for aggressively seeking upgrade in position of need for organisation.
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Post by franko on Jun 20, 2016 19:19:05 GMT -5
For a 1st in 2016 and a 2nd in 2017. Also sign him to 5 year deal. Seems like a high price plus it puts Bernier in limbo. well, I guess the Leaf goalie-go-round continues |
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Post by seventeen on Jun 20, 2016 19:39:42 GMT -5
I'm glad Leafs are putting their trust in Andersen. He'll be 27 in October, just entering his prime. The NHL average save percentage in 2015/16 was .915 and Andersen's was .919. The previous year, average save % was .915 and Andersen's was .914. He had a pretty good possession team in front of him with some decent defensemen. He may get better or he may just stay average. I would guess the 2016 first rounder is PIttsburgh's rather than Toronto's   . So it's basically 2 good second round picks. Not the worst deal for T-O if Andersen plays better under pressure. I'm not ready to pass judgment yet, but unless Andersen takes another step up, he's basically an average goalie. Some teams have proven they can win with average goalies. |
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Post by franko on Jun 20, 2016 21:22:43 GMT -5
unless Andersen takes another step up, he's basically an average goalie. my point exactly. Leafs pinning their hopes on someone who couldn't keep his job on a good team. and some have proven they are still lacking. "it's only year two, it's only year two . . . " I've heard that too many times for a team I actually care about. or at least used to |
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Post by PTH on Jun 20, 2016 21:43:36 GMT -5
Ouch, given how a lot of goalies move around as UFAs or for 2nd or 3d round picks, this seems like a steal for Anaheim.
Can't say I really mind seeing the Leafs get ripped off. I just wish we could do some ripping off every now and then...
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Post by blny on Jun 21, 2016 5:49:18 GMT -5
I'm with PTH. I think the Leafs gave up a lot for him, then $5 million a year for 5 years. Bernier is signed for another year at $4.15 million.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 21, 2016 6:23:23 GMT -5
Now all they need is a defence corps ...
Cheers.
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Post by CentreHice on Jun 21, 2016 8:46:17 GMT -5
Difficult to develop properly when you're always chasing the game.
The Leafs' goaltending situation didn't need a reclamation project, a good deal, band-aid solution, undrafted college player….
Ya gotta give to get…even though deals are difficult to make…
Another good move by the Leafs, IMO.
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Post by Tankdriver on Jun 21, 2016 10:16:23 GMT -5
Difficult to develop properly when you're always chasing the game. The Leafs' goaltending situation didn't need a reclamation project, a good deal, band-aid solution, undrafted college player…. Ya gotta give to get…even though deals are difficult to make… Another good move by the Leafs, IMO. I agree. They basically traded away average players (that are easily replaceable IMHO) and accumulated a ton of second and third round picks plus an extra first rounder. They have secured themselves the option of drafting Matthews, drafted a few decent prospects in Marner and Nylander and got themselves an above average goalie signed for 5 years at a reasonable rate of 5 million dollars. With ownership willing to spend the extra dough they can stash away Robidas, Horton and Lupul on long term contract and can be aggressive in going after superstar players like Stamkos and Tavares. They might not have all the pieces yet but if this draft pans out for them, watch out in a few years. There AHL team is one of the best teams, and they have been building a winning mentality. They are setup well for the future. Taking off my rose coloured Habs glasses, take away Price and the team falls apart. I'm not really impressed with anything in the AHL as I don't see anything remotely close to a second line player or top 4 defenceman in the pipeline. We've handed out some bad contracts - Plekanec, Desharnais, Subban (could of signed him cheaper if done quicker) Petry (who I think Skilly and I were against using the cap space on and wanted offence instead last year) and Emelin. If we don't do something big soon we are going to be starting another 5 year plan in about 2 years. |
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Post by jkr on Jun 21, 2016 12:42:57 GMT -5
This is funny. We complain about the pro Leafs media and yet some of these posts are sounding just like them.  They were the worst team in the NHL. No other club would actually get credit for that the way the Leafs have. |
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Post by seventeen on Jun 21, 2016 16:28:05 GMT -5
Andrew Berkshire had some advanced stats on Andersen compared to Bernier and league average. Andersen was better than average in the high risk red zone (inner slot) and worse than average everywhere else. One key point was that the Ducks gave up fewer quality red zone chances than almost everyone else. Andersen also only played 43 games last year. So he's still unproven in some ways and he's the guy Anaheim gave up rather than keeping. It seems a bit of a gamble and it's a lot to pay an unproven guy. Will Lucky Lou strike it rich again? We'll see.
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Post by CentreHice on Jun 21, 2016 19:03:22 GMT -5
This is funny. We complain about the pro Leafs media and yet some of these posts are sounding just like them. They were the worst team in the NHL. No other club would actually get credit for that the way the Leafs have. I'm not using apologetics. Just trying to be objective...or to look at it from a Leafs' fan perspective. Shanahan said they'd have a very difficult few years. Very up front about it. He lures Babcock to town, who echoes the "painful years ahead" message. Anesthetic for the year to come. No bags on heads; no jerseys on the ice. As you say, the worst team in the NHL...and not only fully expected/accepted, but further rationalized by the reward....Auston Matthews. To their fans, the suits look like geniuses so far. Lots of rope left with that crew. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 21, 2016 19:41:30 GMT -5
The organization, the coaches, the players and the fans ... they're all on the same page ... they haven't proven anything yet, but I'm not used to seeing them so deliberate and so determined ... not sure how Andersen will fair there, but suspect he'll see a lot of pucks ...
Cheers.
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Post by seventeen on Jun 21, 2016 23:07:02 GMT -5
To their fans, the suits look like geniuses so far. Lots of rope left with that crew. Yes, but it's hard to handle success properly. Lou and Cohorts may start believing their press clippings. The Andersen contract may be the first fall due to pride. (Didn't a certain Habs GM fall into the same trap?) |
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Post by Polarice on Jun 22, 2016 7:07:37 GMT -5
I don't get the Andersen signing at all, for both sides. If I was an elite tender, why would I want to go to the worst team in the league where I will see probably 100% more pucks in the so called "danger zone" where my numbers are gonna look like crap and probably end up crushing any confidence I may have had.
And for the Leafs, why would I spend 25 million on an elite tender right now? The Leafs are still a few years away from competing, and If I was in the front office, I'd be looking at a top 3 pick at next years draft. Andersen may have cost them a top 10 pick.
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Post by blny on Jun 22, 2016 9:01:12 GMT -5
I don't get the Andersen signing at all, for both sides. If I was an elite tender, why would I want to go to the worst team in the league where I will see probably 100% more pucks in the so called "danger zone" where my numbers are gonna look like crap and probably end up crushing any confidence I may have had. And for the Leafs, why would I spend 25 million on an elite tender right now? The Leafs are still a few years away from competing, and If I was in the front office, I'd be looking at a top 3 pick at next years draft. Andersen may have cost them a top 10 pick. There was all kinds of press at the end of May talking about how the rebuild might be 'quicker' than originally thought. I laughed, because it would be a huge mistake to miss out on making at least two years of consecutively high picks. We did. |
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Post by franko on Jun 22, 2016 9:16:03 GMT -5
I don't get the Andersen signing at all, for both sides. If I was an elite tender, why would I want to go to the worst team in the league where I will see probably 100% more pucks in the so called "danger zone" where my numbers are gonna look like crap and probably end up crushing any confidence I may have had. And for the Leafs, why would I spend 25 million on an elite tender right now? The Leafs are still a few years away from competing, and If I was in the front office, I'd be looking at a top 3 pick at next years draft. Andersen may have cost them a top 10 pick. There was all kinds of press at the end of May talking about how the rebuild might be 'quicker' than originally thought. I laughed, because it would be a huge mistake to miss out on making at least two years of consecutively high picks. not that it did the Oilers any good. |
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Post by 24in93 on Jun 22, 2016 9:18:37 GMT -5
We all had to know the Leafs would start trying to take shortcuts. I'm glad they've started now. I see Andersen as just another mediocre goalie they're overpaying for and on.
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Post by blny on Jun 22, 2016 10:00:47 GMT -5
There was all kinds of press at the end of May talking about how the rebuild might be 'quicker' than originally thought. I laughed, because it would be a huge mistake to miss out on making at least two years of consecutively high picks. not that it did the Oilers any good. Gotta do it right, surround with the right pieces, and not have Dallas Eakins as your coach. |
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Post by franko on Jun 22, 2016 10:02:35 GMT -5
not that it did the Oilers any good. Gotta do it right, surround with the right pieces, and not have Dallas Eakins as your coach. c'mon, what did Eakins do to earn your scorn? nothing, right? (or is that nothing right). |
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Post by blny on Jun 22, 2016 10:19:09 GMT -5
Gotta do it right, surround with the right pieces, and not have Dallas Eakins as your coach. c'mon, what did Eakins do to earn your scorn? nothing, right? (or is that nothing right). The latter. In the end, all the talent in the world doesn't get you anywhere if you don't have a good teacher at the helm. |
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Post by seventeen on Jun 22, 2016 10:42:37 GMT -5
c'mon, what did Eakins do to earn your scorn? nothing, right? (or is that nothing right). The latter. In the end, all the talent in the world doesn't get you anywhere if you don't have a good teacher at the helm. I'm not sure Eakins was that bad. While Edmonton had some exceptional forwards, the defense and goaltending was well below average. A very good coach, Todd McLellan, had 3 points more in his first year than Eakins achieved in his first. That team needs some structural changes, which they are in the process of making. |
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