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Post by Willie Dog on Dec 12, 2016 16:31:40 GMT -5
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Post by blny on Dec 12, 2016 17:05:00 GMT -5
I think this came up as secondary discussion in another thread, but it's worth it's own discussion.
Honestly, I think senility is setting in for Bob. He's 60 now. If he were strictly talking about our forward core, I could see his agrument. If his argument is that teams aren't interested in the pieces Montreal would be willing to part with, I can see that. 29 teams would be knocking down the door if Bergevin announced that Sergachev was available. that's not an exaggeration. Juulsen would attract attention as well. Given the way teams are going through goalies, I'd think Lindgren would attract attention too. Scherbak and McCarron aren't srubs either, but not qualify as the center piece of a trade.
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Post by PTH on Dec 12, 2016 18:48:13 GMT -5
From what I read elsewhere, it's more a case of teams looking for young but established guys rather than green prospects with no garantees they even make it to the big show, specifically for Hanzal, where Phoenix wants NHL players and not prospects. So it has little to do with how good our prospects are - they don't want prospects. |
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Post by blny on Dec 12, 2016 22:28:52 GMT -5
Hanzal is the most overrated player available.
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Post by Willie Dog on Dec 13, 2016 21:03:55 GMT -5
I think this came up as secondary discussion in another thread, but it's worth it's own discussion. Honestly, I think senility is setting in for Bob. He's 60 now. If he were strictly talking about our forward core, I could see his agrument. If his argument is that teams aren't interested in the pieces Montreal would be willing to part with, I can see that. 29 teams would be knocking down the door if Bergevin announced that Sergachev was available. that's not an exaggeration. Juulsen would attract attention as well. Given the way teams are going through goalies, I'd think Lindgren would attract attention too. Scherbak and McCarron aren't srubs either, but not qualify as the center piece of a trade. I think if you give scherbak a couple of years and 10 or 15 pounds he will be a machine |
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Post by blny on Dec 13, 2016 21:12:56 GMT -5
I think this came up as secondary discussion in another thread, but it's worth it's own discussion. Honestly, I think senility is setting in for Bob. He's 60 now. If he were strictly talking about our forward core, I could see his agrument. If his argument is that teams aren't interested in the pieces Montreal would be willing to part with, I can see that. 29 teams would be knocking down the door if Bergevin announced that Sergachev was available. that's not an exaggeration. Juulsen would attract attention as well. Given the way teams are going through goalies, I'd think Lindgren would attract attention too. Scherbak and McCarron aren't srubs either, but not qualify as the center piece of a trade. I think if you give scherbak a couple of years and 10 or 15 pounds he will be a machine That's what I'm hoping for. |
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Post by Willie Dog on Dec 13, 2016 22:14:58 GMT -5
I think if you give scherbak a couple of years and 10 or 15 pounds he will be a machine That's what I'm hoping for. I would be thrilled if he became a Hossa... Marian not Marcel. |
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Post by Boston_Habs on Dec 14, 2016 11:13:09 GMT -5
Do we have prospects that anyone wants or have real value?
I'd say not really. We just drafted Sergachev, so it's way too early to tell. But the jury is still very much out on 1st round picks like Scherbak, McCarron, and Juulsen. Really, the only Bergevin draft pick that have panned out so far is Galchenyuk. I'd put Lehkonen next, who could go a long way to making the Habs a real contender, but that's about it. Maybe Hudon comes in 3rd and Berg doesn't even seem to like him.
A list of notable draft picks since 2007:
2007: McDonagh, Pacioretty, Subban
2008: Kristo, Quailer
2009: Leblanc
2010: Tinordi, Gallagher
2011: Beaulieu
2012: Galchenyuk, Collberg, Thrower, Hudon
2013: McCarron, De la Rose, Fucale, Lehkonen
2014: Scherbak, Lernout
2015: Juulsen, Vejdemo
2016: Sergachev, Bitten
Other than the fact that we managed to piss away a once-in-a-generation 2007 draft (imagine McDonagh and PK manning the back end), the draft record of the Habs over the past decade has been so-so at best, and less than that under Bergevin. In several years we didn't have a 2nd round pick, which was often used for a playoff push, but the cumulative effect is not terribly impressive other than Galchenyuk and maybe Lehkonen. You would expect a bit more traction by now, especially out of those 2012 and 2013 drafts.
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Post by blny on Dec 14, 2016 12:41:08 GMT -5
Juulsen is likely to be on this WJC team. He's having a very strong campaign for Everett. His size, skating, and all around game would interest teams. He'll be a pro next year, and I don't expect him to spend much time on the farm.
Sergachev is a stud. He was 17 the day of his selection, making him one of the youngest taken in the draft. He's had the expected let down after not sticking with Montreal, but the fact he made the team was impressive. If the Habs were the Coyotes, he'd likely still be in the NHL. Sure their are questions marks, like there are with many first round picks. It doesn't mean his stock isn't high, or there aren't a long list of teams that would love to have him.
They could be an excellent first pair in 5 years.
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Post by Gogie on Dec 14, 2016 13:54:03 GMT -5
I have no idea what the answer to the following question might be, but what if we turned this discussion around and asked "What high end prospects do other teams have"? Are most teams better off than the Habs? Are we middle of the pack? Are we really not so bad off, all things considered?
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Post by blny on Dec 14, 2016 14:23:47 GMT -5
I have no idea what the answer to the following question might be, but what if we turned this discussion around and asked "What high end prospects do other teams have"? Are most teams better off than the Habs? Are we middle of the pack? Are we really not so bad off, all things considered? HF boards sister site, was always at the forefront of prospect ranking. www.hockeysfuture.com/ Checking the site now, it's dated. Old information. Lack of updates. They don't even have Sergachev in the prospect pool. |
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Post by Anardil1 on Dec 14, 2016 14:51:51 GMT -5
I have no idea what the answer to the following question might be, but what if we turned this discussion around and asked "What high end prospects do other teams have"? Are most teams better off than the Habs? Are we middle of the pack? Are we really not so bad off, all things considered? HF boards sister site, was always at the forefront of prospect ranking. www.hockeysfuture.com/ Checking the site now, it's dated. Old information. Lack of updates. They don't even have Sergachev in the prospect pool. HF site has officially been in limbo since around Canada Day. The message boards are the only active platforms under the HF umbrella. Rumours at the time said that they were trying to reform as a pay site. |
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Post by blny on Dec 14, 2016 15:38:44 GMT -5
HF boards sister site, was always at the forefront of prospect ranking. www.hockeysfuture.com/ Checking the site now, it's dated. Old information. Lack of updates. They don't even have Sergachev in the prospect pool. HF site has officially been in limbo since around Canada Day. The message boards are the only active platforms under the HF umbrella. Rumours at the time said that they were trying to reform as a pay site. Thanks for that piece of information. Was unaware. |
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Post by CentreHice on Dec 14, 2016 15:45:01 GMT -5
Honestly, I think senility is setting in for Bob. He's 60 now. So, I still have 2 years before I start writing nonsense on this board? Wait...that's already started. Ha! When I was 25, I thought 60 was ancient....not so much anymore... |
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Post by blny on Dec 14, 2016 15:58:34 GMT -5
Honestly, I think senility is setting in for Bob. He's 60 now. So, I still have 2 years before I start writing nonsense on this board? Wait...that's already started. Ha! When I was 25, I thought 60 was ancient....not so much anymore... It's not an condemnation of everyone that age, so much as it's a time when you might see signs lol.  |
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Post by franko on Dec 14, 2016 18:58:15 GMT -5
When I was 25, I thought 60 was ancient....not so much anymore... yup, as far as I'm concerned, 60 is middle aged. |
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Post by drkcloud on Dec 19, 2016 19:32:09 GMT -5
As the world juniors starts up it does make me wonder. We have a total of 2 prospects playing in the entire tournament. Not that it's the end all be all indicator of success at the nhl level but it is AN indicator. TBL have 5 on the Canadian roster alone
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Post by franko on Dec 19, 2016 20:32:43 GMT -5
isn't just BobbyMac's opinion
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Post by BadCompany on Dec 20, 2016 10:52:57 GMT -5
The title of the segment on TSN is pure click-bait.
He didn’t quite say that Montreal doesn’t have any prospects that teams want… he said that teams aren’t looking for prospects in general. That right now the price for players like Hanzal is young, established NHL players, like Lehkonen. Teams already have a bunch of prospects in their own systems, they want, as PTH said, more “ready” players. He also said that come the trade deadline teams like Arizona would be more willing to take a prospect and/or pick for the Hanzals of the world.
I think there is probably a bit of hyperbole in there, but I get his general point. I’m sure teams would like to have guys like McCarron, or Scherbak, or Juulsen in their system, but they aren’t going to go out of their way to get them. Most teams already have the equivalent of a McCarron, Scherbak or Juulsen in the system, so they’re not going to be beating down our door to get another one. Which again isn’t to say that they wouldn’t take them, just that they don’t look at our system and think “damn, what can we do to get that guy??”
But that goes for pretty much every team in the league. Seriously, take a look at most team’s depth charts, or prospect lists, and tell me which ones you’d be willing to make a significant trade for. Especially if you define a prospect as somebody who is not yet in the NHL. Taking a cursory look through hockeydb.com, the most recent drafts, and there aren’t a lot of guys I would be backing the “at-any-cost-wagon” up for.
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Post by Tankdriver on Dec 20, 2016 10:56:31 GMT -5
Bob is right. I still can't believe we picked De la Rose as high as we did. He wasn't putting up points when he was drafted amd he hasn't show that ability in the A or the show. To be honest, I don't think the 2015 draft was anything spectacular either.
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Post by Andrew on Dec 20, 2016 13:35:08 GMT -5
Bob is right. I still can't believe we picked De la Rose as high as we did. He wasn't putting up points when he was drafted amd he hasn't show that ability in the A or the show. To be honest, I don't think the 2015 draft was anything spectacular either. That draft was hyped as a good one, but hasn't really panned out. I think there's a fair amount of luck with drafting in general. With that draft we had the benefit of 4 picks in the first two rounds, and it looks like we'll end up with 2 NHL regulars out of it, with Lehkonen showing the most promise. Looking at all of the players that were drafted after McCarron there aren't any home run picks at this point. There are a few promising players (Duclair, Theodore, Pesce). |
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Post by GNick99 on Jan 24, 2017 6:59:40 GMT -5
Habs haven't drafted well in recent years. Leblanc, Tinordi flopped, Collberg couldn't score, Beaulieu and Schebak have struggled. That's 4 first round picks and a high second in 5 years with limited production.
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Post by blny on Jan 24, 2017 8:48:57 GMT -5
Scherbak's main issue has been health. He missed almost half of his first pro season due to a couple of injuries. He's still only in his second year of pro hockey. Far too quick to close the book. He's improved this year substantially. He has work to do, but he's far from what I would call a bad pick at this point.
Beaulieu is 24 years old and has almost 200 games to his credit. I've voiced concerns about his ability to get to the next level, but he's certainly done good work in Markov's absence. He's not going to win scoring titles, but he's looking more and more like an effective top 4 d-man. I don't think you can expect much more than that when you pick #18. You can hope, but you're getting very close to the point of significant drop off in talent in most draft years. For Nathan to be playing effective top 4 minutes before he's 25 is a credit to him and the pick imo.
Collberg was used to acquire Vanek. He was sold high imo, and Berg got a lot for Collberg and the 2nd he sent to the Islanders. Any struggles for Collberg after that are on the Islanders. Montreal maxed their value on that asset afaic.
Leblanc and Tinordi were flops. No doubt. They weren't players that were drafted as flyers though. They went more or less where they were expected to by central scouting. Both are latter half first rounders. I never liked the Leblanc pick for a couple of reasons. They drafted a home town kid at a draft held in Montreal. He was destined to fail. Montreal and home town kids is just too much pressure. Two, he was drafted more for intellect and leadership qualities than outright skill. Like Chipchurra, that just read bust for me from day one. Still, those drafts are 7 and 8 years ago. IMO, when it comes to drafts, that's not recent. That's ancient history.
Looking at the last 4 drafts ...
2016 - Sergachev still projects very very highly. Bitten and Mete have had good seasons. Early days for them. Mete was cut from Team Canada, but an invite is a feather in the cap.
2015 - Juulsen stands out as a 26th overall pick. I thought he was criminally under used by Team Canada. He skates extremely well, hits, plays defense well and is a good passer. The only thing he doesn't do well is shoot. I think there will be teams kicking themselves for not taking him when we look at him at 25. NWT can speak more about the others than I can. Bradley was an over ager that is having a better season than his draft year. He might be something of a late bloomer.
2014 - Scherbak is also a 26th overall pick. He's still got some rawness to his game. He needs to get stronger. The skill is there, as evident from his first NHL goal. Lernout, as a third, and in his second pro season is quietly going about the business of being a stay at home defender. He's +7 on a team that is a bubble team and seen a lot of call ups this year. Hawkey was a 6th rounder and is one of the best goalies in college hockey. No complaints there.
2013 - McCarron at 25th doesn't have any real threats from picks taken after him. I still see him as a Brian Boyle type, and think he'll get there. Boyle was taken 26th coincidentally. Fucale has had his struggles. He gets by on athleticism over technique. He had a very good Spengler Cup, and I'm hopeful that can be a spring board for him. DLR looks a little better in this current stint. He doesn't look lost in the o-zone. I don't know what his peak will be, but Duclair is about the only player selected after him in the whole draft that stands out. Duclair has had a huge drop off this year after a promising rookie season.
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Half empty, half full. There are teams with deeper pools of drafted talent, but given where the Habs have picked, and who's been taken after our players, I'm not sitting here disappointed.
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