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Post by blny on Jun 28, 2017 13:33:27 GMT -5
Meanwhile, Chia is quoted as saying they'll match any offer sheet signed by Draisaitl. If Connor signs for that much, I don't know how. That's just way too much of a team's payroll in one player afaic.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Jun 28, 2017 15:24:34 GMT -5
The Oilers are heading down that path where a couple of their top contracts will limit the quality of their depth guys. Teams like Pittsburgh and Chicago have been living this for a while now. Let's see if Chiarelli can once he inks those deals. With all those top picks year after year, you knew this was coming at Edmonton at some point.
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Post by blny on Jun 28, 2017 16:23:41 GMT -5
The Oilers are heading down that path where a couple of their top contracts will limit the quality of their depth guys. Teams like Pittsburgh and Chicago have been living this for a while now. Let's see if Chiarelli can once he inks those deals. With all those top picks year after year, you knew this was coming at Edmonton at some point. It's now being reported that Leon is looking for a max term deal in the area of $9 million per. There's no way the Oilers can afford to have nearly 1/3 the cap tied up in 2 players. Leon's camp clearly know what is available to them in an offer sheet. Some of the more delusional fans on HF are of the opinion that he'll settle for something nearer to $7 million. That's a laugh. He'll sign an offer sheet, and the Oilers will be forced into a very tough decision. Look at their roster. They have $6 million tied up in each of Lucic and RNH. The latter has 4 more years. I'm not going to say they're stuck with either player, but they aren't getting value back. Talbot becomes a ufa in 2019. He won't likely be less than $6 million to keep. Pouliot has 2 years left at $4 million per to be a 4th line, and sometimes 3rd line, player. Letestu and Maroon are as good as gone. They've got almost $18 million committed to their top 4 defense. Good luck finding money for Darnell Nurse. IMO, this is all derived from the fact the world of hockey has seen a shift in what drives the game. It's about the center ice position now. Teams are scrambling to find centers. They can't draft them fast enough. Really good ones are hard to find. Draisaitl is hitting the RFA market at a point where he's in complete control. It's the perfect storm. McDavid has a year left before his ELC is up and the Oilers are already trying to lock him down. There's no way that Leon accepts a bridge deal. None. The sharks should be circling. The result of all of this will be something I just alluded to. Teams are going to work hard to lock up key young players before their ELC contracts expire. They'll look to secure the services of their players to the point where they're almost 30. It will mean that the pool of UFAs will dwindle more each year. It could mean that fewer and fewer RFA players dangle. It will definitely mean that player movement will stagnate imo. |
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Post by folatre on Jun 28, 2017 17:11:01 GMT -5
Good points, blny.
Chiarelli can certainly match for Draisaitl and figure something out before next summer, since the McDavid megacontract starts in 2018-19. But a 9 or 9.5 AAV on max term deal is to severely limit what Edmonton can do with the rest of roster. Some guys currently under contract for 2018-19 and beyond would have to move on.
But I guess if there is any scenario where you embrace the dilemma it is where you are locking up absolute studs who drive offensive hockey. That is the kind of talent that makes the difference in today NHL.
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Post by blny on Jun 28, 2017 17:19:11 GMT -5
Good points, blny. Chiarelli can certainly match for Draisaitl and figure something out before next summer, since the McDavid megacontract starts in 2018-19. But a 9 or 9.5 AAV on max term deal is to severely limit what Edmonton can do with the rest of roster. Some guys currently under contract for 2018-19 and beyond would have to move on. But I guess if there is any scenario where you embrace the dilemma it is where you are locking up absolute studs who drive offensive hockey. That is the kind of talent that makes the difference in today NHL. You're right too. The only saving grace is the overlap in that Drai is this summer and McD is next. Still, they're quickly approaching cap hell. |
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Post by folatre on Jun 28, 2017 17:39:16 GMT -5
It will depend if Chiarelli is as adept as Bowman and Rutherford at steering clear of expensive secondary core guys and stocking lower rungs of roster with serviceable guys on cheap deals.
It is sort of strange to think about with 2018-19 Habs in mind, but I would rather have 23 million per year tied up in McDavid and Draisaitl or even 21 million in Toews and Kane than I would 17-18 million per season in a goalie and a stay at home d-man.
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Post by blny on Jun 28, 2017 18:15:31 GMT -5
I wouldn't say Bowman is too adept. They've had to trade away pieces over the years, and this summer downgraded from Hammer to Murhpy. Saad might be a great analytics guy and great 5-on-5, but they just gave away 10-20 goals in the Panarin trade imo.
Rutherford has made some great choices, but there's a fair bit of luck there too. I think a huge part of their success belongs on the shoulders of Sullivan. He had success with their AHL team, got hired to replace Bylsma, brought up a bunch of the kids he had in WBS, changed the style of play of the team to one up tempo to use their speed, and got great play from a young goalie. That core group of kids were either drafted or signed before Rutherford took over in 2014. His shrewdest move was getting Kessel. He also traded Neal for Hornqvist and Spaling (no longer with club). It doesn't hurt having two of the best centers in the league signed to arguably bargain contracts if you look at where things are going.
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Post by folatre on Jun 28, 2017 19:06:16 GMT -5
I agree, I like Panarin better than Saad too.
For me the primary core is like 4-5 guys, not more six and the secondary core is another 6 or 7 guys and everyone else is basically peripheral, representing essentially interchangeable parts.
In Chicago case, part of the success is not overfilling peripheral spots with secondary core kind of money and the other key is actually parting ways proactively with guys in the secondary core when the money does not fit anymore. Patrick Sharp was certainly in the secondary core at one time but Bowman sent him (and final two years of 6 million per deal) packing. And a guy like Andrew Shaw played his way into the secondary core but Bowman knew it was smarter to save the cash for guys like Panarin and Anisimov then to hand it over to Shaw who may be heart and soul but he is basically a third liner with a likely productivity ceiling around 40 points. Or this summer shipping Hjarlmarsson out not because did not play well enough to be a Blackhawk but because you cannot afford to overpay guys in the secondary core or feel married to them.
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Post by seventeen on Jun 28, 2017 19:29:10 GMT -5
It will depend if Chiarelli is as adept as Bowman and Rutherford at steering clear of expensive secondary core guys and stocking lower rungs of roster with serviceable guys on cheap deals. It is sort of strange to think about with 2018-19 Habs in mind, but I would rather have 23 million per year tied up in McDavid and Draisaitl or even 21 million in Toews and Kane than I would 17-18 million per season in a goalie and a stay at home d-man. Amen. Not to mention the age differences as well. |
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Post by blny on Jun 28, 2017 19:47:24 GMT -5
We don't know what Carey will come in at yet, but the 17-18 is likely close.
I know there's more than a few Hawks fans who cringe at the Seabrook contract. Saad might help boost Toews' production. They play a similar game. They've lost Hammer, TVR, Oduya, etc, and I'm not sure they've been replaced. Hossa is out for the year. Toews, Kane, Saad, Keith and Crawford. A fine group, but not young. Keith is 33 with 6 more years left. Seabrook is 32 with seven years left. Kane is 28 and Toews is 29. We're talking about our own players in that age group as if the window is closing and they have six years each on their deals. Hossa is 38. Anisimov is 29. Crawford is 32. I think they're very close to being able to say "they've done their winning".
I think it's far easier to say you can live with the Oiler centers at $23 million if you know you've got a goalie in the pipe. After Talbot, it drops off a shelf. Cam's not young either. He'll be 30 on July 5th. It's also a lot easier to live with those two if you've got expiring contracts coming soon. The Oilers don't.
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Post by seventeen on Jun 29, 2017 1:16:43 GMT -5
It's why scouting and development is so critical. New, cheap kids come in and you trade the mature,expensive players for more draft choices.
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Post by blny on Jun 29, 2017 11:45:15 GMT -5
First domino to fall. Oilers put Pouliot on waivers for purpose of buyout.
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Post by folatre on Jun 29, 2017 12:23:22 GMT -5
Interesting. It gives Edmonton more cap space in 2017-19, not that they needed it in 2017-18. But it eats cap space (granted probably only in the 1.5 percent range) in the years 2019-2021 when every cap dollar counts.
I guess the thing that sealed it was that Pouliot played terrible last season so Chiarelli probably thinks hey we can put a better hockey player on the ice.
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Post by seventeen on Jun 30, 2017 1:44:43 GMT -5
At times Pouliot can look fast, skilled and competitive. Other times not so much. And then he'll take a really dumb penalty. Hard to figure him out. But he can be very dangerous when he chooses to be.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 30, 2017 9:19:40 GMT -5
We don't know what Carey will come in at yet, but the 17-18 is likely close. If that contract goes through it won't only throw a wrench into Montreal, but the rest of the league, as well ... hypothetically, let's say for squats and chuckles that Marc Bergevin finds a way to get Leon Draisaitl into Montreal ... let's say Draisaitl signs for $9-10 million/season avec les boys ... if he were to get that I'd say Carey Price would probably be as good as gone ... if this scenario were to pan out, Price would probably have a say in where he goes and I dare say he'd end up with a western contender that hasn't already paid out for a generational player ... I'm not saying this will pan out, but Draisaitl or no, I'm not sure Bergevin will fork out the generational salary to any player ... I'll qualify that by saying, while he signed PK Subban to $9 million/season, it wasn't him who tendered Subban the contract ... it was Geoff Molson who set the bar on that one (that's the way I understand it) ... so, while I, myself wouldn't turn down a lucrative contract like Connor McDavid's, I don't like the contract because of what it's going to do to the rest of the league, including the Habs ... Cheers. |
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Post by blny on Jun 30, 2017 9:33:00 GMT -5
We don't know what Carey will come in at yet, but the 17-18 is likely close. If that contract goes through it won't only throw a wrench into Montreal, but the rest of the league, as well ... hypothetically, let's say for squats and chuckles that Marc Bergevin finds a way to get Leon Draisaitl into Montreal ... let's say Draisaitl signs for $9-10 million/season avec les boys ... if he were to get that I'd say Carey Price would probably be as good as gone ... if this scenario were to pan out, Price would probably have a say in where he goes and I dare say he'd end up with a western contender that hasn't already paid out for a generational player ... I'm not saying this will pan out, but Draisaitl or no, I'm not sure Bergevin will fork out the generational salary to any player ... I'll qualify that by saying, while he signed PK Subban to $9 million/season, it wasn't him who tendered Subban the contract ... it was Geoff Molson who set the bar on that one (that's the way I understand it) ... so, while I, myself wouldn't turn down a lucrative contract like Connor McDavid's, I don't like the contract because of what it's going to do to the rest of the league, including the Habs ... Cheers. Sorry, I didn't mean Price alone. $17 million would exceed the amount you can pay one player. That would be Price and Weber, which is what Folatre was eluding to.  |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 30, 2017 10:28:52 GMT -5
If that contract goes through it won't only throw a wrench into Montreal, but the rest of the league, as well ... hypothetically, let's say for squats and chuckles that Marc Bergevin finds a way to get Leon Draisaitl into Montreal ... let's say Draisaitl signs for $9-10 million/season avec les boys ... if he were to get that I'd say Carey Price would probably be as good as gone ... if this scenario were to pan out, Price would probably have a say in where he goes and I dare say he'd end up with a western contender that hasn't already paid out for a generational player ... I'm not saying this will pan out, but Draisaitl or no, I'm not sure Bergevin will fork out the generational salary to any player ... I'll qualify that by saying, while he signed PK Subban to $9 million/season, it wasn't him who tendered Subban the contract ... it was Geoff Molson who set the bar on that one (that's the way I understand it) ... so, while I, myself wouldn't turn down a lucrative contract like Connor McDavid's, I don't like the contract because of what it's going to do to the rest of the league, including the Habs ... Cheers. Sorry, I didn't mean Price alone. $17 million would exceed the amount you can pay one player. That would be Price and Weber, which is what Folatre was eluding to. I got you man ... unbelievable numbers, though, blny ... truly ... |
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Post by blny on Jun 30, 2017 10:55:29 GMT -5
Yessir. Not quite in NBA or MLB territory, but a case of the rich getting richer. League min won't drop, so it's gonna squeeze the middle class.
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Post by blny on Jul 5, 2017 14:37:11 GMT -5
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Jul 5, 2017 14:41:38 GMT -5
I expect this price tag would only have gone up in the next year, so good for the Oilers to get it wrapped up now. That is a huge chunk of change, but McDavid is one of those rare young players for which you can open the bank.
For Chiarelli, the real test in cap management is how he does in filling the roster with key complementary pieces that don't cost too much cap space once these new high dollar contracts kick in.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jul 5, 2017 15:02:37 GMT -5
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jul 5, 2017 15:04:21 GMT -5
Can they still afford Leon Draisaitl ... they're going to need him for another Cup run ...
Cheers.
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Post by blny on Jul 5, 2017 15:05:56 GMT -5
I expect this price tag would only have gone up in the next year, so good for the Oilers to get it wrapped up now. That is a huge chunk of change, but McDavid is one of those rare young players for which you can open the bank. For Chiarelli, the real test in cap management is how he does in filling the roster with key complementary pieces that don't cost too much cap space once these new high dollar contracts kick in. I think Talbot becomes a victim of it. Lucic isn't going anywhere. RNH could well be pawned off, but it won't be for good value. When the contract kicks in they'll have almost $18 million committed to 4 defenders. Nurse and Benning will need rfa contracts. Talbot will have one year left and likely to want a big raise from $4.167 million he's making. Of the possible players to move list, he'd be at the top. |
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