Lupul

[Deleted]

Something's brewin' in Leaf land. Apparently Lupul failed his physical for the second year in a row, and commented about it on Instagram (which has since been deleted): "Haha failed physical? They cheat, everyone lets them."

This isn't the first time Toronto's been involved with players who have had extended time on IR only to cut them loose (Stephane Robidas, Jared Cowen). Does this mean Lupul is on the way out? Or is he understating the severity of his injury?

www.tsn.ca/leafs-refuse-comment-on-lupul-s-apparent-allegation-1.859457

[blny]

Personally, I think this is great news. Not that it's happening to the Leafs, but in general. I'm hopefully it shines a light on what most people suspect: teams are using LTIR to bury contracts regardless of whether a player might actually be able to play or not. Even in the instances where a player can't play anymore, and the player is getting moved (Horton), it's dirty pool imo.

[folatre]

For years I think there are suspicions about some LTIR cases. Toronto seems most aggressive in using the relative ease with which medical judgments can be translated into a competitive advantage.

[seventeen]

I wonder what the going rate is for a medical professional to provide an opinion?

[Disgruntled70sHab]

Sept 18, 2017 17:08:37 GMT -5 blny said:

Personally, I think this is great news. Not that it's happening to the Leafs, but in general. I'm hopefully it shines a light on what most people suspect: teams are using LTIR to bury contracts regardless of whether a player might actually be able to play or not. Even in the instances where a player can't play anymore, and the player is getting moved (Horton), it's dirty pool imo.

First thing I thought of was, how many teams are doing this ...

Cheers.

[blny]

Sept 19, 2017 0:46:40 GMT -5 seventeen said:

I wonder what the going rate is for a medical professional to provide an opinion?

Is the method in which physicals are done spelled out anywhere? How involved are MD's? Most team doctors are practicing physicians elsewhere. I have a hard time believing they'd risk their license by violating their oath. That said, they're as human as the next. Still, I'd love to know how involved they are in the process, and if it's exactly the same from team to team.

[seventeen]

If it's a subjective matter, which is often the case, no one would have to risk a license.

[folatre]

Look at Johan Franzen, he still feels symptoms associated with concussions two years later. With awareness of head injuries, if the player is worried then a doctor is not going to balk at saying sure he is injured.

There are plenty of guys who could conceivably take that route if they wanted to transition to a safer, post-hockey life while being compensated fully for the remainder of a contract.

If Montreal's management did not believe in Andrew Shaw as a hockey player, I think it would be entirely possible to find a perfectly reputable doctor who would judge that it would be prudent to keep him out of harm way and monitor his brain activity for a few more months and revisit a longer term judgment next summer.

[Deleted]

Sept 19, 2017 13:00:38 GMT -5 seventeen said:

If it's a subjective matter, which is often the case, no one would have to risk a license.

Seeing as the league is under fire right now regarding concussion protocol, we have to wonder to what extent the doctors are involved and consulted. I imagine they make recommendations and then allow the team/player to decide what to do next. I'd be curious to hear what they think about Crosby continuing to play despite his concussion history.

[blny]

Sept 19, 2017 13:00:38 GMT -5 seventeen said:

If it's a subjective matter, which is often the case, no one would have to risk a license.

If they're involved, they can't be subjective. If they lie, they're in big trouble.

[blny]

Sept 19, 2017 15:20:01 GMT -5 @mattdhf said:

Sept 19, 2017 13:00:38 GMT -5 seventeen said:

If it's a subjective matter, which is often the case, no one would have to risk a license.

Seeing as the league is under fire right now regarding concussion protocol, we have to wonder to what extent the doctors are involved and consulted. I imagine they make recommendations and then allow the team/player to decide what to do next. I'd be curious to hear what they think about Crosby continuing to play despite his concussion history.

There's a significant debate in the medical field about concussions - which doesn't exactly help the law suit. The argument/debate revolves around the lasting impact of concussions players have properly 'healed' from before the occurrence of another. We know the damage done by those that went undiagnosed and suffered many (likely while already concussed). Like other injuries, if one to the head is allowed the time to heal and be symptom free, the feeling is there may be no lasting affect. There's still so much to learn. We don't really know for certain if sustaining a concussion makes us susceptible to sustaining another. For players that sustained many, was it a result of returning to play before being fully healed? Does sustaining one or two, properly treated, lead to chronic issues down the road? Are there genetic predispositions that may be involved? No one is entirely sure.

I had two, within 6 months, before I was a teenager. The first was a clear grade 2 concussion (vomiting, dizziness, etc). After turning 40, I wanted an MRI to see if there were any signs of lasting damage. I can't say that any specific protocols were followed for each instance. I returned to regular activities very quickly. In fact, the second one, I went to my school ensemble band concert and pretended to play - head still ringing. Between these incidents and the MRI there were life events that could have resulted in concussion that didn't (thankfully). Still, no permanent damage appeared in the scan. No lesions. So, in my case, there's no link between the two I've suffered and a chronic issue of re-occurrence. I can't say the same for my knees or back, but that's another story lol.

[Cranky]

A bit off topic but relevant....

Back then, I practiced with the Redmen despite being a high schooler. (Montreal High, across the street from McGill)

Very fast, very shifty, nasty and at a hard 210 pounds, huge back then for a running back. Easy ticket to US collages BUT my fear were that I would sustain lifelong knee injuries or head whacks. Everyone who played running back had been clipped a million times...and the knees suffered. A few guys had surgeries and they were still teens. As for concussions? They were a dime a dozen and was told the usual line back then...just shake-them-off son.

I rather fantasize on what could of been then scream every time I move now.....or not remember my name.

.

BTW...I ran a few patterns with a "famous" running back or receiver from the Allouttes, but can't remember his name. It was 1971-72 and I think it started with a C-something....

[jkr]

Sept 21, 2017 20:06:35 GMT -5 Cranky said:

A bit off topic but relevant....

Back then, I practiced with the Redmond despite being a high schooler. (Montreal High, across the street from McGill)

Very fast, very shifty, nasty and at a hard 210 pounds, huge back then for a running back. Easy ticket to US collages BUT my fear were that I would sustain lifelong knee injuries or head whacks. Everyone who played running back had been clipped a million times...and the knees suffered. A few guys had surgeries and they were still teens. As for concussions? They were a dime a dozen and was told the usual line back then...just shake-them-off son.

I rather fantasize on what could of been then scream every time I move now.....or not remember my name.

.

BTW...I ran a few patterns with a "famous" running back or receiver from the Allouttes, but can't remember his name. It was 1971-72 and I think it started with a C-something....

the only running back I can remember from that time period is Moses Denson. Not sure of the receivers.

[Cranky]

Sept 21, 2017 20:47:46 GMT -5 jkr said:

Sept 21, 2017 20:06:35 GMT -5 Cranky said:

A bit off topic but relevant....

Back then, I practiced with the Redmond despite being a high schooler. (Montreal High, across the street from McGill)

Very fast, very shifty, nasty and at a hard 210 pounds, huge back then for a running back. Easy ticket to US collages BUT my fear were that I would sustain lifelong knee injuries or head whacks. Everyone who played running back had been clipped a million times...and the knees suffered. A few guys had surgeries and they were still teens. As for concussions? They were a dime a dozen and was told the usual line back then...just shake-them-off son.

I rather fantasize on what could of been then scream every time I move now.....or not remember my name.

.

BTW...I ran a few patterns with a "famous" running back or receiver from the Allouttes, but can't remember his name. It was 1971-72 and I think it started with a C-something....

the only running back I can remember from that time period is Moses Denson. Not sure of the receivers.

Nope. He was white.

Other then that very brief time period, I'm not a football fan.

(They were the Redmen, not Redmond. Yeesh....maybe I was hit on the head too many times!)