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Post by The Habitual Fan on Sept 25, 2017 14:54:24 GMT -5
I'm sure everyone saw Donald Trump's tweet concerning players kneeling during the national anthem and that the owners should fire those players. He also dis-invited the Warriors basketball team when Stef Curry said he would not be going to annual Whitehouse visit for championship teams.
I was pretty disappointed when the Penguins tweeted that it was a great honour to be invited and they would be going, to which Trump tweeted they were a great team. My view was if the Penguins tweeted they were going at the very time this protest was going on it is a direct response from the ownership showing support for Trump and his world views.
I'm equally disappointed that Sidney Crosby has publically said he thinks it is an honour to be invited and will be going.
Pittsburgh holds two of the greatest players in the modern era of hockey in Lemieux and Crosby and in a time when leadership and being a positive role model to others is so important it would be great to see these two players stand up and say they do not agree in discrimination, bullying of others and a total lack of respect to others and say they would not be going to Washington.
Colin Kapernick paid a huge price of likely ending his career by peacefully protesting what he believes because he is a fringe back up quarterback at times. Sidney Crosby is the Stef Curry of the NHL and the face of the game. He won't be fired, traded or even suspended if he stood up for the right thing to do. I don't know Sid's political beliefs so maybe like Tom Brady he is a Trump supporter but this shouldn't be about politics, it should be about doing the right thing and using a voice to support those that are discriminated against. Come on Mario and Sid and do the right thing and lead by example.
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Post by BadCompany on Sept 25, 2017 16:56:37 GMT -5
Regardless of whether or not you think kneeling, or refusing to go to the White House, is the right thing to do, ultimately it comes down to a matter of personal choice. Which, the last time I checked we were still free to make. Donald Trump may not feel that this is a choice they should be allowed to make, but it is, and if the Pittsburgh Penguins, or Sydney Crosby, do not want to be the face of public protest (of if they *gasp* agree with Donald Trump) then that is there choice. We can't force them to fight for what we perceive to be the right thing to do, anymore than we can force them to stop kneeling or protesting. Both are acceptable, even commendable, decisions.
Of course it's not quite that black and white (haha, see what I did there?), but I don't think we can criticize somebody for exercising their rights to do whatever they please, as much as we perhaps want them to. I believe what Trump said was wrong, and divisive, but for me kneeling or not kneeling are simply two sides of the same coin, and you can't throw out one without throwing out the other. If they want to kneel, I support that choice. If they want to shake Trump's hand, that's their choice as well.
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Post by seventeen on Sept 25, 2017 17:40:04 GMT -5
Well, I disagree BC. There are many topics or issues that are grey and not black and white. Racism is not one of those. Replace 'Racism' with 'Pedophilia' and see what reaction you get. I too was gobsmacked at the Penguins press release. You cannot tiptoe around this issue. If you are seen shaking hands with the 12 year old temporarily occupying the oval office, you are, like it or not, providing a form of endorsement. With some issues, you have to stand up and say "No, this is not right and I am not going to sit on the fence just so I avoid a difficult decision". The Pens had that opportunity and failed to seize it. The fact is almost all hockey players are white, and as Gregg Popovich says, "We have no idea what it's like to not be white".
Pointe finale.
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Post by blny on Sept 25, 2017 20:58:06 GMT -5
"I don’t get choked up about yellow ribbons & flags. I consider them symbols, & I leave symbols to the symbol-minded." George Carlin (1992 HBO special aired shortly after Persian Gulf) It's pseudo patriotism to think that the only way to show respect is to stand. There was a time when teams were not on the field for pregame ceremonies and anthems. No one considered them unpatriotic or disrespectful. Do people really think they were all standing in their locker room stalls? I don't. Dissidence is not disrespect. Peaceful protest is protected under the first amendment. "If peaceful revolution is impossible, violent revolution is inevitable." - JFK I've seen people say that these 'rich entitled athletes' have no business protesting anything. Same mentality shown to actors who speak up, as if either profession means you forfeit your right to speak. We've seen a few owners step up, but Kaepernick at this point is still a martyr. He's without a job for no reason. Maybe he's not a starter on every team, but he's a #2 on any team in the league. If the NFL wants to show me that they're behind this movement, someone needs to step up and welcome Kaepernick into their team. Part of US culture is the separation of the "Office of the President of the USA" and the "President". I don't think you can be selective when it comes to freedom of choice. Steph Curry chose not to go, Trump childishly 'rescinded' the invitation to the GS Warriors NBA champs. The Pens can choose to go out of respect for the office. Who knows, maybe they have a protest planned and will all take a knee for pics. Wouldn't that be something? Denver Broncos head coach is black. He issued a statement today saying he chooses not to take a knee. So, it's not a simple black and white issue. NFL wide receiver Anquan Boldin signed a contract to play in Buffalo this year. In light of all the things going on, and the recent loss of a cousin to a shooting by cop, he retired. He said he can no longer play football with so much work to do. He's spoken before Congress. He's getting former and current players together to help fight social injustice. He's a really well spoken guy that Monday Night Football pregame did a spot on tonight. He left a lucrative contract on the table. He is focusing his efforts in avenues that likely won't come with pay checks. I wish him all the best in his efforts. Bob Costas spoke on CNN today. He hits the nail on the head here quite well. www.cnn.com/2017/09/25/politics/costas-new-day-cnntv/index.htmlI still support people's right to do what they want, either way. No one should be forced to go one way or the other. |
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Post by PTH on Sept 25, 2017 20:58:27 GMT -5
Well, I disagree BC. There are many topics or issues that are grey and not black and white. Racism is not one of those. Replace 'Racism' with 'Pedophilia' and see what reaction you get. I too was gobsmacked at the Penguins press release. You cannot tiptoe around this issue. If you are seen shaking hands with the 12 year old temporarily occupying the oval office, you are, like it or not, providing a form of endorsement. With some issues, you have to stand up and say "No, this is not right and I am not going to sit on the fence just so I avoid a difficult decision". The Pens had that opportunity and failed to seize it. The fact is almost all hockey players are white, and as Gregg Popovich says, "We have no idea what it's like to not be white". Pointe finale. No e to either word... (sorry for nitpicking, but I'm having a bad day) |
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Post by jkr on Sept 26, 2017 12:17:07 GMT -5
He's probably trying to distract people:
- He's engaged in childish name calling with North Korea
- The Republican's attempt to repeal the Affordable Care Act is likely doomed - again.
- The revelation that cabinet members are using private email.
- It's been almost 10 months in office. What has he done? What, of any significance has been passed?
He has so much on his plate & he chooses to spend his time taking about the NFL. Baffling.
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Post by seventeen on Sept 26, 2017 17:58:10 GMT -5
Well, I disagree BC. There are many topics or issues that are grey and not black and white. Racism is not one of those. Replace 'Racism' with 'Pedophilia' and see what reaction you get. I too was gobsmacked at the Penguins press release. You cannot tiptoe around this issue. If you are seen shaking hands with the 12 year old temporarily occupying the oval office, you are, like it or not, providing a form of endorsement. With some issues, you have to stand up and say "No, this is not right and I am not going to sit on the fence just so I avoid a difficult decision". The Pens had that opportunity and failed to seize it. The fact is almost all hockey players are white, and as Gregg Popovich says, "We have no idea what it's like to not be white". Pointe finale. No e to either word... (sorry for nitpicking, but I'm having a bad day) No problem. I learned something new. |
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Post by seventeen on Sept 26, 2017 18:02:05 GMT -5
The one thing you can always count on with Trump is that as soon as things swing against him, which means pretty well every day because he's not very bright, he changes the subject by coming up with something outlandish. If we really wanted to get his goat, every time we saw him, we'd ask "How's that Russia thing coming?" And never change the question.
"I'm going to destroy North Korea!"
"How's that Russia thing coming, Don?"
It's the one thing he is really scared of and will be his undoing. Hopefully, when the dust settles, he will simply be left alone and penniless. I can't think of any punishment he would find worse.
(Well, maybe having the election overturned and Hillary put into power would destroy his ego, but I prefer leaving him penniless, to see how many friends he really has. Chuckle.)
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Post by franko on Sept 26, 2017 18:09:13 GMT -5
Unfortunately, every time he becomes penniless he finds someone with money he can take. He doesn't remain penniless long.
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Post by Cranky on Sept 30, 2017 12:48:37 GMT -5
Funny thing....i disagree with all of you.
I wear a yarmulke in a synagogue or participating in a jewish ceremony.
I sit or or stand as required in an orthodox church.
I bow my head if someone is saying grace.
I am a DEVOUT athiest.
At no point in my life have i dis-respected someones objects or symbols to show how "free" i am. In fact, to be civilized one has to understand and respect the civilized norms and symbols of others.
And if anyone wants to make the argument that this is about freedom of speech, well, you just bought the political left justification headlines and completely ignored the intent of why Kaepernick did what he did.
His own words...."I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color,"
That is a straight up finger to the American symbol of a nation. Nothing more. Nothing less. Hilarious that he did very little "social justice" advocating before this but chose to give the finger to those who paid a lot of money to see him play, not his political opinion, even less so to get the middle finger from him. Even more hilarious is a multi millionaire playing a game complaining about oppression.
And for those who really count in this conversation.....
The vast majority of Americans, those people who actually count in the conversation, they AGREE with his right to protest and the vast majority of Americans do NOT AGREE with him disrespecting the national anthem and the flag. To them (and us) it is a symbol of mutual pride and respect for each other through our nation and those who sacrificed to protect it, which again, is us.
We all are free to say what we want, but we don't. We choose our words and deeds to suit the enviroment and feelings with those who we interact or affect.
Kneeling is not about about freedom to do so, kneeling is simply giving the middle finger to those who honour the symbols and sacrifice of a nation.
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Post by Cranky on Sept 30, 2017 14:04:54 GMT -5
The one thing you can always count on with Trump is that as soon as things swing against him, which means pretty well every day because he's not very bright, he changes the subject by coming up with something outlandish. If we really wanted to get his goat, every time we saw him, we'd ask "How's that Russia thing coming?" And never change the question. "I'm going to destroy North Korea!" "How's that Russia thing coming, Don?" It's the one thing he is really scared of and will be his undoing. Hopefully, when the dust settles, he will simply be left alone and penniless. I can't think of any punishment he would find worse. (Well, maybe having the election overturned and Hillary put into power would destroy his ego, but I prefer leaving him penniless, to see how many friends he really has. Chuckle.) Funny thing...i hope the very same thing for NiceHair Boy. And good luck with the Russian thingy...lol . P.S. Unless vast voter fraud was proven, already done and way past now, Hillar'ious can never overturn an election. If Trump stepped down, say hello to President Pence. Sorry. |
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Post by seventeen on Sept 30, 2017 14:47:55 GMT -5
No, I didn't mean that putting Hillary in power could actually happen (it never will), just that if it did, that would annoy the orange jerk more than almost anything. If I wanted to punish him, as I said, for crimes against the state, I'd just bankrupt him and constantly ensure no one bailed him out.
We'll have to see about the Russia thingy. The best chance to control him is simply the November elections next year. A few swing Senate seats and he'd find himself on the hot seat. The amazing thing is how inured Americans have become to his pathetic governance and his general attitude. He has accomplished nothing, but will he be taken to task?
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Post by Cranky on Sept 30, 2017 15:10:13 GMT -5
Well, I disagree BC. There are many topics or issues that are grey and not black and white. Racism is not one of those. Replace 'Racism' with 'Pedophilia' and see what reaction you get. I too was gobsmacked at the Penguins press release. You cannot tiptoe around this issue. If you are seen shaking hands with the 12 year old temporarily occupying the oval office, you are, like it or not, providing a form of endorsement. With some issues, you have to stand up and say "No, this is not right and I am not going to sit on the fence just so I avoid a difficult decision". The Pens had that opportunity and failed to seize it. The fact is almost all hockey players are white, and as Gregg Popovich says, "We have no idea what it's like to not be white". Pointe finale. Trump was voted in by 63 million AMERICANS that see no version of what you do. Including blacks, latinos and woman. As for "white" not understanding racism, ask those "white" jews or any identifiable group. If someone thinks that racism is confined to a particular skin colour then they have lived in a bubble and utterly unaware of how some groups or societies view other groups or societies. To think that bias or racism is a "white" trait is to be racist on "whites". Further...to demand or expect that hockey players from Canada should protest based on skin colour and get into the face of an American President on American political issues is a bridge too far. We as Canadians would be offended if an American football player gave the finger to NiceHair Boy, including me and i despise NHBoy. We are wading into the realm of political dogmatism. |
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Post by Cranky on Sept 30, 2017 15:27:51 GMT -5
No, I didn't mean that putting Hillary in power could actually happen (it never will), just that if it did, that would annoy the orange jerk more than almost anything. If I wanted to punish him, as I said, for crimes against the state, I'd just bankrupt him and constantly ensure no one bailed him out. We'll have to see about the Russia thingy. The best chance to control him is simply the November elections next year. A few swing Senate seats and he'd find himself on the hot seat. The amazing thing is how inured Americans have become to his pathetic governance and his general attitude. He has accomplished nothing, but will he be taken to task? In 6 months he has wiped out ALL of the "stroke of a pen" of 8 years of obama presidency...but accomplished nothing. The major piece of legislation, obamacare is out of his hands. As for next November, it's more likely that more seats turn Republican then lost by them. The Democrat seats are in states that Trump won. Second thing....to think that Trump is the reason people voted for him and ignore the reason WHY people voted for him will miss out on what is driving American politics. Trump latched on to massive voter anger about the political system ignoring them and their problems. Unless the Democratic party turns off the identity and victimhood politics and addresses voters concerns about their economics and futures, you will see more Republicans..and even super-majorities. |
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