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Post by sasha on Oct 9, 2005 17:31:26 GMT -5
1. Carey Price - Carry a terrible WHL team into the playoffs again. 2.5 GAA, .925 Save %? Win the starting role on the Canadian U20 team. Lead them to a medal in Vancouver.
2. Guillaume Latendresse - Average 2 points per game in the QMJHL. Lead his team deep into the Q. playoffs, possible Mem Cup run. Canadian U20 team top two line forward.
3. Kyle Chipchura - Average 1.5 PPG in the WHL. Lead the P.A. Raiders to the WHL final at least. Third line centre role on the U20 team.
4. Alexei Emelin - Regular role and power play duty in the RSL. Score 10 points. Top Russian defenceman at the U20 WJC.
5. Andrei Kostitsyn - Top two line and power play forward in the AHL. 25-30 goals, 25-30 assists on the year. AHL All Star appearance.
6. Juraj Mikus - Full season on Slovak Champions League. Average .5 points per game. Top line centre at the WJC.
7. Sergei Kostitsyn - Average a point per game in the OHL. Power play and penalty killing duty. WJC appearance.
8. Mikail Grabovski - Top two line forward in the RSL. Average .75 PPG. Belarus senior national team rep.
9. Christopher Lindberg - Co starter for the season in the Swedish Elitersen. GAA 2, Save % .9.
10. Corey Locke - Average a point per game in the AHL. All Star appearance. Look see with the Habs.
*Doesn't include prospects who have already played NHL games.
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Post by streitshooter on Oct 9, 2005 19:22:10 GMT -5
1. Carey Price - Carry a terrible WHL team into the playoffs again. 2.5 GAA, .925 Save %? Win the starting role on the Canadian U20 team. Lead them to a medal in Vancouver. 2. Guillaume Latendresse - Average 2 points per game in the QMJHL. Lead his team deep into the Q. playoffs, possible Mem Cup run. Canadian U20 team top two line forward. 3. Kyle Chipchura - Average 1.5 PPG in the WHL. Lead the P.A. Raiders to the WHL final at least. Third line centre role on the U20 team. 4. Alexei Emelin - Regular role and power play duty in the RSL. Score 10 points. Top Russian defenceman at the U20 WJC. 5. Andrei Kostitsyn - Top two line and power play forward in the AHL. 25-30 goals, 25-30 assists on the year. AHL All Star appearance. 6. Juraj Mikus - Full season on Slovak Champions League. Average .5 points per game. Top line centre at the WJC. 7. Sergei Kostitsyn - Average a point per game in the OHL. Power play and penalty killing duty. WJC appearance. 8. Mikail Grabovski - Top two line forward in the RSL. Average .75 PPG. Belarus senior national team rep. 9. Christopher Lindberg - Co starter for the season in the Swedish Elitersen. GAA 2, Save % .9. 10. Corey Locke - Average a point per game in the AHL. All Star appearance. Look see with the Habs. *Doesn't include prospects who have already played NHL games. Whether they develop defensively and show character and maturity improvements is irrelevant in comaprison to "standards", is that what we're to gather? Go back and look at Bob Gainey's junior stats, then have a gander at Bill Derlago's, or Ray Ferraro's. Then ask yourself: "Who was the better NHLer?" To say that Chipchura must average 1.5 points per game dismisses everything else he brings to the table. The Habs are not projecting him to be a scoring center on the Habs, so it's not a big deal how many points he gets unless he averages something like half a point per game, and we know that's not going to happen. |
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Post by montreal on Oct 9, 2005 20:12:29 GMT -5
1. Carey Price - Carry a terrible WHL team into the playoffs again. 2.5 GAA, .925 Save %? Win the starting role on the Canadian U20 team. Lead them to a medal in Vancouver. 2. Guillaume Latendresse - Average 2 points per game in the QMJHL. Lead his team deep into the Q. playoffs, possible Mem Cup run. Canadian U20 team top two line forward. 3. Kyle Chipchura - Average 1.5 PPG in the WHL. Lead the P.A. Raiders to the WHL final at least. Third line centre role on the U20 team. 4. Alexei Emelin - Regular role and power play duty in the RSL. Score 10 points. Top Russian defenceman at the U20 WJC. 5. Andrei Kostitsyn - Top two line and power play forward in the AHL. 25-30 goals, 25-30 assists on the year. AHL All Star appearance. 6. Juraj Mikus - Full season on Slovak Champions League. Average .5 points per game. Top line centre at the WJC. 7. Sergei Kostitsyn - Average a point per game in the OHL. Power play and penalty killing duty. WJC appearance. 8. Mikail Grabovski - Top two line forward in the RSL. Average .75 PPG. Belarus senior national team rep. 9. Christopher Lindberg - Co starter for the season in the Swedish Elitersen. GAA 2, Save % .9. 10. Corey Locke - Average a point per game in the AHL. All Star appearance. Look see with the Habs. *Doesn't include prospects who have already played NHL games. I don't believe in standards, what I try and do is watch how they progress over time and improve upon their weaknesses, since imo stats are vastly overrated but fun to read since I am a numbers guy. 1. Tri City in the 2 games I've seen are freaking brutal, they have to be one of the worst teams in the CHL. Last night they had no offense whatsoever, what a joke of a team. Although they just picked up a 19 year old defensemen, so that should hopefully help. I think Price will see a ton of rubber this year and next which should be good for him. I also expect him to make the U-20 team this year and next. 2. 2 pts a game average? highly unlikely. Aside from Crosby, the Q's 2nd leading scorer had 116 pts in 69 games. So if Latendresse were to play in 70 games he'd need to score 140 pts. Aside from Crosby last season no one in the Q has gotten over 117 pts in the past 2 seasons. I expect him to make the U-20 team though. 3. Have you seen PA yet this year? WHL finals? yikes they suck from the early looks of it. Granted I'm watching on the net and it's very very early in the season but they sure don't look very good so far. 4. Emelin has played in 10 of 12 games with some PP time. I assume he will be on the U-20 team, despite not being on the U-20 team at the 5 nations. It could have something to do with Lada since I was told they refused to let him play for the remax games last year. He's already matched his career RSL numbers. 5. Kostitsyn I would like to see him put up a lot of points. We'll have to see how the team looks. 6. Mikus should play all season for SKA in the slovak elite league. He's got 2 pts in 9 games, with the team leader getting 5 pts in 11 games. talk about low scoring team. 7. Kostitsyn racked up the points on the PP early on. But with Schremp back he likely won't see the same amount of ice time. I've seen 2 games so far and he's looked very good. 8. Grabo is playing on the 2nd line right now, putting up better numbers then last season and should be a force for Team Belarus at the WC's assuming Dyanmo's season is over. 9. Heino if he can keep up his play, he should get consideration for SEL rookie of the year and a possible league championship. He's put up good numbers in the 2 games he's played and Henriksson hasn't put up outstanding numbers early on. 10. Locke should be on the top line this year but numbers aren't really important for him since he needs to get stronger and faster. |
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Post by sasha on Oct 10, 2005 0:16:47 GMT -5
[quote author=streitshooter board=Scouting thread=1128897086 post=1128903730To say that Chipchura must average 1.5 points per game dismisses everything else he brings to the table. The Habs are not projecting him to be a scoring center on the Habs, so it's not a big deal how many points he gets unless he averages something like half a point per game, and we know that's not going to happen.[/quote]
No one "has to" score the point totals I mentioned. But if they are going to be more than fringe NHLers, they should reach the standards I set this season. Scoring should be up this season at all levels, so the standards of the past few years aren't a good measuring stick. If Chipchura scores at a point per game average this season, he is in the company of big WHL centres like Garth Murray, Greg Watson, Ivan Bohanka, etc. None of those players managed to score even 10 points in the AHL last season, even though they have been playing pro hockey for a couple of seasons at least. That is not what Montreal was looking for in a first round pick.
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Post by Bob on Oct 10, 2005 12:15:23 GMT -5
1. Carey Price - Carry a terrible WHL team into the playoffs again. 2.5 GAA, .925 Save %? Win the starting role on the Canadian U20 team. Lead them to a medal in Vancouver. 2. Guillaume Latendresse - Average 2 points per game in the QMJHL. Lead his team deep into the Q. playoffs, possible Mem Cup run. Canadian U20 team top two line forward. 3. Kyle Chipchura - Average 1.5 PPG in the WHL. Lead the P.A. Raiders to the WHL final at least. Third line centre role on the U20 team. 4. Alexei Emelin - Regular role and power play duty in the RSL. Score 10 points. Top Russian defenceman at the U20 WJC. 5. Andrei Kostitsyn - Top two line and power play forward in the AHL. 25-30 goals, 25-30 assists on the year. AHL All Star appearance. 6. Juraj Mikus - Full season on Slovak Champions League. Average .5 points per game. Top line centre at the WJC. 7. Sergei Kostitsyn - Average a point per game in the OHL. Power play and penalty killing duty. WJC appearance. 8. Mikail Grabovski - Top two line forward in the RSL. Average .75 PPG. Belarus senior national team rep. 9. Christopher Lindberg - Co starter for the season in the Swedish Elitersen. GAA 2, Save % .9. 10. Corey Locke - Average a point per game in the AHL. All Star appearance. Look see with the Habs. *Doesn't include prospects who have already played NHL games. You only have one defensman listed. What about Ryan O'Byrne and Oskari Korpikari? |
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Post by sasha on Oct 10, 2005 13:45:24 GMT -5
Times are tough for big, stay at home defencemen. Unless O'Byrne and Korpikari show some hitherto undiscovered puck skill, I can't see them ever playing in the NHL. Probably Philippe Paquet has more chance than those two since he is supposedly a very good skater and seems to have some offensive potential. I would also like to see the Habs sign Sebastien Bisaillon who was in their rookie camp. He puts up better numbers than Luc Bourdon or Kris Letang in Val D'Or.
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Post by Bob on Oct 10, 2005 15:08:03 GMT -5
Times are tough for big, stay at home defencemen. Unless O'Byrne and Korpikari show some hitherto undiscovered puck skill, I can't see them ever playing in the NHL. Probably Philippe Paquet has more chance than those two since he is supposedly a very good skater and seems to have some offensive potential. I would also like to see the Habs sign Sebastien Bisaillon who was in their rookie camp. He puts up better numbers than Luc Bourdon or Kris Letang in Val D'Or. Thanks for the comments... it puts your ratings in perspective. O'Byrne is a great skater, takes the body well (without resorting to clutiching and grabbing) and makes a great first pass out of his zone. On defence, especially, it is more than numbers. In his first year, O'Byrne received almost zero power play time and last year there was a bit, but most of the PP time was awarded to senior defensemen. On the other hand, he has been on the penalty kill unit since day one. I'm not as sure about Korpikari, but I certainly don't rank my defensemen by looking at a stat sheet. If we everyone did that, then Andy Delmore would be pursued by every team in the league and he would be making $5 million per year. |
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Post by sasha on Oct 10, 2005 18:37:21 GMT -5
Well, O'Byrne is 21 and in his junior year, and he hasn't really stood out in the NCAA. Komisarek was an All American, top Defensive defenseman in the CCHA, and scored 30 points as a 19/20 year old sophomore. Look at how much difficulty Komo is having breaking in. Or Hainsey who was most of the same things in Hockey East a year earlier. Based on his record to this point, I think the chances of O'Byrne ever being a regular in the NHL are close to 0%. Korpikari? Fuggedaboudit. Of their current defense prospects, I think that the Russians, Emelin and Korneev probably have the best chance to succeed, but I don't think their chances are overwhelming, either.
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Post by Bob on Oct 10, 2005 21:53:45 GMT -5
Well, O'Byrne is 21 and in his junior year, and he hasn't really stood out in the NCAA. Komisarek was an All American, top Defensive defenseman in the CCHA, and scored 30 points as a 19/20 year old sophomore. Look at how much difficulty Komo is having breaking in. Or Hainsey who was most of the same things in Hockey East a year earlier. Based on his record to this point, I think the chances of O'Byrne ever being a regular in the NHL are close to 0%. Korpikari? Fuggedaboudit. Of their current defense prospects, I think that the Russians, Emelin and Korneev probably have the best chance to succeed, but I don't think their chances are overwhelming, either. LOL... scouting by statistics. |
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Post by seventeen on Oct 10, 2005 22:44:08 GMT -5
Everyone's allowed an opinion, even if they're outlandish ones. In fact, I think I said Markov could develop into a Lidstrom, about 2 1/2 years ago. What a hoot! I also have said Tampa could miss the playoffs this year, if they have an average number of injuries. (Guffaw!). By the way, Chips scored 2 goals against Kamloops tonight, both on breakaways. I think that makes 9 points in 7 games. Not far off 1.5 ppg on a bad team.
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Post by sasha on Oct 11, 2005 1:11:03 GMT -5
[ LOL... scouting by statistics. Gee, Bob, everyone can't be like you with a private jet and millions of dollars that enable you to fly around the world to watch these guys play every game. That flight from Finland to N.Y. and back again to catch all of O'Byrne and Korpikoski's games must be hell. I have nothing but admiration for someone who spends their time flying from Finland to Russia to Canada to the U.S. to the Czech Republic and back again just to be able to watch the prospects play first hand in order to be able to offer a "real" scouting report. |
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Post by sasha on Oct 11, 2005 1:39:30 GMT -5
By the way, Chips scored 2 goals against Kamloops tonight, both on breakaways. I think that makes 9 points in 7 games. Not far off 1.5 ppg on a bad team. Chipchura has 6 points in 7 games. He is going to have a long hard road to the NHL, his skill level and hockey sense are not high. The player I thought they should have taken (based on stats at the time), was Wolski, and he scored 3 points for the Avalanche tonight. |
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Oct 11, 2005 6:43:07 GMT -5
[ LOL... scouting by statistics. Gee, Bob, everyone can't be like you with a private jet and millions of dollars that enable you to fly around the world to watch these guys play every game. That flight from Finland to N.Y. and back again to catch all of O'Byrne and Korpikoski's games must be hell. I have nothing but admiration for someone who spends their time flying from Finland to Russia to Canada to the U.S. to the Czech Republic and back again just to be able to watch the prospects play first hand in order to be able to offer a "real" scouting report. No personal attacks allowed on this board (if you don't have something good to say about a fellow member, don't say it)—reply to the post, not the poster. First and final warning. |
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Post by blny on Oct 11, 2005 9:39:07 GMT -5
The minute you set expectations is the minute you set yourself up for disappointment. Player development is more than stats. Beyond that, you need to back up statements like: ...his skill level and hockey sense are not high. Hockey sense is more than about offence. Chipper isn't gonna be a scoring centre for us, and we don't expect him to be. He was drafter for his two-way play and leadership characteristics. |
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Post by sasha on Oct 11, 2005 11:39:58 GMT -5
[ No personal attacks allowed on this board (if you don't have something good to say about a fellow member, don't say it)—reply to the post, not the poster. First and final warning. That was a response to a "personal attack". Even a suicidal, alchoholic, wife murdering junkie like Hunter Thompson should be able to see that.  No one can scout these players on a personal basis enough to make definitive judgements. That is why full time scouts work in groups and constantly cross reference to get opinions. Statistical analysis is by far the quickest, easiest and most accurate method. |
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Oct 11, 2005 11:43:01 GMT -5
[ No personal attacks allowed on this board (if you don't have something good to say about a fellow member, don't say it)—reply to the post, not the poster. First and final warning. No it wasn't. Don't do it again. Take further communication on this matter up via PM. Thanks. |
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Post by sasha on Oct 11, 2005 11:44:16 GMT -5
Hockey sense is more than about offence. Chipper isn't gonna be a scoring centre for us, and we don't expect him to be. He was drafter for his two-way play and leadership characteristics. I've seen Chipchura play enough to realize that his skill level is limited. As far as defensive players in the NHL are concerned, most of the best (Carbonneau, Jarvis, Gilmour, Peca, etc.) were top scorers as juniors. You almost never see a player who was an average offensive player as a junior make the NHL except as a goon. Gainey was about the only exception. |
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Post by blny on Oct 11, 2005 12:00:15 GMT -5
Hockey sense is more than about offence. Chipper isn't gonna be a scoring centre for us, and we don't expect him to be. He was drafter for his two-way play and leadership characteristics. I've seen Chipchura play enough to realize that his skill level is limited. As far as defensive players in the NHL are concerned, most of the best (Carbonneau, Jarvis, Gilmour, Peca, etc.) were top scorers as juniors. You almost never see a player who was an average offensive player as a junior make the NHL except as a goon. Gainey was about the only exception. One has to consider the team he plays on too. It's not exactly the best team. What kind of number would Kyle put up with the London Knights? That's why stats are subjective. Besides, the types of intangibles that team (and others) see in Kyle can't be measured by stats. Kyle is gonna be one of those guys you go to war with. You can't have enough of them. |
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Post by sasha on Oct 11, 2005 12:19:32 GMT -5
. Besides, the types of intangibles that team (and others) see in Kyle can't be measured by stats. Kyle is gonna be one of those guys you go to war with. You can't have enough of them. There isn't any good reason that P.A. shouldn't be a good team. They have a lot of highly rated NHL prospects on the team. Last season they were one of the best in the WHL AFTER Chipchura was knocked out of the lineup for the season. I don't doubt that Kyle is a good kid, but leadership comes from production as much as anything else. |
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Post by duster on Oct 11, 2005 12:34:30 GMT -5
The fact remains that PA, for example, is not one the top teams in the WHL this year, at least statistically. Does it mean all its players are destined to fail?
At the recent PA vs Vancouver game, Chipchura was the best player on ice despite only getting one assist.
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Post by blny on Oct 11, 2005 12:49:39 GMT -5
. Besides, the types of intangibles that team (and others) see in Kyle can't be measured by stats. Kyle is gonna be one of those guys you go to war with. You can't have enough of them. There isn't any good reason that P.A. shouldn't be a good team. They have a lot of highly rated NHL prospects on the team. Last season they were one of the best in the WHL AFTER Chipchura was knocked out of the lineup for the season. I don't doubt that Kyle is a good kid, but leadership comes from production as much as anything else. How do you figure? Gainey never lit it up, but no one denies the leader he was and is. Points do not have anything to do with leadership, otherwise Jagr would be the best leader in the league. |
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Post by sasha on Oct 11, 2005 13:35:17 GMT -5
I'm too lazy to look it up, but I think if you check around the league, most of the team captains are top scorers. Being a rah, rah guy in the dressing room is great, but as often as not those players are on the fourth line or in the minors.
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