|
|
Post by Doc Holliday on Feb 25, 2004 18:21:08 GMT -5
I am relaying an information brought forward by MAR10 of HABFANS. He claims there is something rather big brewing involving Koivu and Rivet. MAR10 is credible enough that if he says something is brewing than something is brewing. Of course it doesn't mean there is a guranteed trade that will happen but there is heavy smoke.
It's unfortunate that I end up relaying this info given how I feel about Koivu and some will most certainly try to shoot the messenger.
|
|
|
|
Post by rhabdo on Feb 25, 2004 18:32:05 GMT -5
I am relaying an information brought forward by MAR10 of HABFANS. He claims there is something rather big brewing involving Koivu and Rivet. MAR10 is credible enough that if he says something is brewing than something is brewing. Of course it doesn't mean there is a guranteed trade that will happen but there is heavy smoke. It's unfortunate that I end up relaying this info given how I feel about Koivu and some will most certainly try to shoot the messenger. You're right, someone will try to shoot the messenger. Gainey held a news conference today, according to Habs World. He didn't announce a trade, major or minor. He said Koivu is a great player and can do a lot for the Habs when he plays great. He also said that the bagarre was no big deal. This doesn't prove that MAR10 was wrong but it certainly doesn't establish his credibility. |
|
|
|
Post by Yeti on Feb 25, 2004 19:16:32 GMT -5
That would indeed be a major trade...
In exchange of two young veterans who are part of the Habs' core, Gainey has to receive at least one other young player (between 22 and 28) who is good enough to be considered a cornerstone for this franchise.
Tough trade to make. Gainey is not a seller like Savard was when he traded Linden and Zubrus. Gainey can't trade Koivu and Rivet for players that can't contribute NOW at the same level.
|
|
|
|
Post by Doc Holliday on Feb 25, 2004 19:26:57 GMT -5
Gainey can't trade Koivu and Rivet for players that can't contribute NOW at the same level. I agree. Looking at this team for the last 2 games, I would be hesitant to trade Koivu... Though I am not sold on his leadership, I think him and Ribeiro could be the start of a very solid center line. If we could land some proven talent for them, things could get interesting. Add O'Neil or Smyth and suddenly this team has another dimension... I'm not opposed to trading Koivu but we'd have to get another centermen in that trade which would not solve our actual lack of quality wingers... I think it's kind of a crossroad. Either Gainey does a big push in an effort to consolidate his actual team around Koivu and Ribeiro or he choses to radically change the outlook of the HABS by dealing away Koivu and Rivet to have a new core form. |
|
|
|
Post by Skilly on Feb 25, 2004 19:50:08 GMT -5
Hmmmm Koivu and Rivet. Interesting.
*BANG* ... did I getthe messenger ?
Oh well, this one is a hard game to play. How much is Koivu worth on the open market? I value him greatly for the Habs but how much to other teams think of him?
Koivu, Rivet, pick/prospect for O'Neill and Hill
Koivu, Rivet, Hossa for Lang and Witt
Koivu, Rivet, Hossa and pick for Smyth and Smith/Brewer?
World of possibilites but I can't see Edmonton taking on Koivu's and Rivet's salary so that nixes them.
|
|
|
|
Post by Marvin on Feb 25, 2004 20:12:02 GMT -5
There's no way in the world the Habs are going to trade Koivu and Rivet at this point of the season when the team is so close to a Playoff spot. Trading players of that magnitude would totally upset the chemistry; it doesn't matter who they get in return, it would undue a year's worth of cohesiveness that Julien has worked so hard to attain. Why am I the only one who doesn't care if they don't make a trade, and who is not putting together these totally illogical trade possibilities?
Marvin
p.s. As I've said in the past, if a major trade does come to fruition, I'll be the first one to say "Oop! I was wrong."
|
|
|
|
Post by AH on Feb 25, 2004 20:19:35 GMT -5
Hmmmm Koivu and Rivet. Interesting. Koivu, Rivet, pick/prospect for O'Neill and Hill Can we please stop with the O'Neill obsession. He is a complete and utter stiff with a bad attitude. On top of that, Hill is 35 and a UFA ... Why are we making this trade ? |
|
|
|
Post by blaise on Feb 25, 2004 20:23:39 GMT -5
Hmmmm Koivu and Rivet. Interesting. *BANG* ... did I getthe messenger ? Oh well, this one is a hard game to play. How much is Koivu worth on the open market? I value him greatly for the Habs but how much to other teams think of him? Koivu, Rivet, pick/prospect for O'Neill and Hill Koivu, Rivet, Hossa for Lang and Witt Koivu, Rivet, Hossa and pick for Smyth and Smith/Brewer? World of possibilites but I can't see Edmonton taking on Koivu's and Rivet's salary so that nixes them. Neither would Washington or Carolina, so all three are unlikely. But I'm more inclined to doubt the rumor than to speculate where Koivu and Rivet will wind up before the March trading deadline. |
|
|
|
Post by AH on Feb 25, 2004 20:44:28 GMT -5
In that same scrum of posts on habfans (you really have to look closely), MAR10 mentions that Koivu had asked to be traded in October.
I seriously doubt BG will shake up his team this much right before the playoffs. A drastic change like this is more likely in the off-season.
|
|
|
|
Post by sergejean on Feb 25, 2004 21:03:05 GMT -5
I'm not opposed to trading Koivu but we'd have to get another centermen in that trade which would not solve our actual lack of quality wingers... I think it's kind of a crossroad. Either Gainey does a big push in an effort to consolidate his actual team around Koivu and Ribeiro or he choses to radically change the outlook of the HABS by dealing away Koivu and Rivet to have a new core form. I totally agree with your post. It's a matter of choice at this point. We can either build around Koivu and Ribs as our top two line centers or we can totally change the chemistry of the team. At this point in the season, I would be very surprised to see one of them be traded... I think we should consider building around both Koivu and Ribs... They would be even better with good wingers... At this point, only Zednik is a proven top 2 winger... Ryder? I have confidence he is for real but he is still a rookie... As for Bulis and Dagenais, well... I think a lot of people will agree that neither of them are a long term solution... Where do we go from there? I dunno, it's up to Gainey I guess... |
|
|
|
Post by jkr on Feb 25, 2004 21:04:02 GMT -5
In that same scrum of posts on habfans (you really have to look closely), MAR10 mentions that Koivu had asked to be traded in October. How would he know that? And how would he know about trade talks? Is this another MolsonMan? |
|
|
|
Post by blaise on Feb 25, 2004 21:09:26 GMT -5
Sounds more like the Michelin Man, a mound of inflated rubber.  |
|
|
|
Post by Doc Holliday on Feb 25, 2004 21:11:05 GMT -5
I seriously doubt BG will shake up his team this much right before the playoffs. A drastic change like this is more likely in the off-season. Maybe and maybe not. Gainey needs to make the playoffs but he knows he's not a contender so if he has in his mind to shake up his team and the right deal comes along between now and March, I doubt he'll let it go by in fear of disturbing the present chemistry. Lets say (just for the fun of speculating wildly) that Gainey knows he's gonna trade Koivu and Rivet sooner or later and he gets a call tomorrow from Dallas saying Morrow, Arnott, Matvichuck for Koivu, Rivet and Zednik... One would think that he'd probably jump on that and not wait for the summer. On the other hand if Gainey really has no intention of trading an important piece like Koivu than indeed he would probably pass on deals that would change his team too much at the moment. |
|
|
|
Post by AH on Feb 25, 2004 21:14:54 GMT -5
How would he know that? And how would he know about trade talks? Is this another MolsonMan? Funny thing is, a poster by the name of Braz chimed in and confirmed this. The guys over there are saying that Braz is really MolsonMan from fanhome, and that he is legit. we'll see. |
|
|
|
Post by Doc Holliday on Feb 25, 2004 21:17:30 GMT -5
How would he know that? And how would he know about trade talks? Is this another MolsonMan? ...He has his ins and has been telling people about rumors when he hears them and he has done so for quite a while. But he insists that it's at a rumor level. ...It's kind of interesting to talk about something different than the Montreal Media or the Koivu/Ribeiro controversy... |
|
|
|
Post by AH on Feb 25, 2004 21:18:08 GMT -5
Morrow, Arnott, Matvichuck for Koivu, Rivet and Zednik... One would think that he'd probably jump on that and not wait for the summer. I wouldn't do that. I hate Arnott. His attitude sucks and the last thing we need is a major SUCK on the team. Matvichuk is finished. And Zednik is better than Morrow. People seriously over-rate Morrow. I will get into it later |
|
|
|
Post by Doc Holliday on Feb 25, 2004 21:18:57 GMT -5
Funny thing is, a poster by the name of Braz chimed in and confirmed this. The guys over there are saying that Braz is really MolsonMan from fanhome, and that he is legit. we'll see. ...actually Braz said he was MolsonMan. Puts a little action in anotherwise very calm wednesday night  |
|
|
|
Post by Doc Holliday on Feb 25, 2004 21:23:27 GMT -5
I wouldn't do that. I hate Arnott. His attitude sucks and the last thing we need is a major SUCK on the team. Matvichuk is finished. And Zednik is better than Morrow. People seriously over-rate Morrow. I will get into it later ...that wasn't my point but it could generate a could discussion. To get back to what I was trying to say, replace those players (arnott and etc...) with names you feel represent fair value (we'll these guys package X). If Gainey was set to move Koivu and Rivet do you think he'd pass on that opportunity to get package X just because it might disturb this edition's chemistry ? |
|
|
|
Post by blaise on Feb 25, 2004 21:34:26 GMT -5
Gainey wouldn't hesitate to do anything he thinks would help the team. That much we agree upon. What we don't agree upon is whether the type of trade you have in mind would help the Habs. If Gainey feels a major trade is necessary, I think he would keep his top two centers and go for a wing who can skate and score. mr bozo mentioned Erik Cole and Brendan Witt. They would fill two important holes but might cost too much in prospects.
|
|
|
|
Post by PTH on Feb 25, 2004 21:57:22 GMT -5
.. As for Bulis and Dagenais, well... I think a lot of people will agree that neither of them are a long term solution... ... Not long term solutions - as top 2 line wingers. I think Bulis could fit very well on a 3d line for a long time. |
|
|
|
Post by HFTO on Feb 25, 2004 22:06:56 GMT -5
A couple of us have been saying for a while now that for this team to improve it will have to explore the trade route.I'm not quite convinced a blockbuster is in the offing but changes will and have to eventually come to balance out this current club.
Even if the suggested deal does transpire it doesn't necessarily mean that Gainey's plan is to magically transpire this team into a cup contender ,because its obvious that it is unlikely,but you never know if Theo plays like he did two years ago(see Carolina Florida Buffalo and washington)
This is all a process so if Gainey feels he has a good handle on things its his duty to start the transition as soon as possible.Any deal that makes you a better club
today will lead into the next period of the clubs evaluation.
The Habs aren't going to magically turn into a contender by keeping all of their draft picks,you have to find a balance of using those assests and pick your spots,so why not now?
As far as the rumours go I saw the posts at HF and will take it for what its worth.
HFTO
|
|
|
|
Post by sergejean on Feb 25, 2004 22:30:58 GMT -5
Not long term solutions - as top 2 line wingers. I think Bulis could fit very well on a 3d line for a long time. I always said that Bulis was an excellent third line winger... I am sorry if I wasn't clear in this one post... However, what is clear is that we need at least one -power forward- type of winger (preferably 2) |
|
|
|
Post by jkr on Feb 25, 2004 23:33:27 GMT -5
...He has his ins and has been telling people about rumors when he hears them and he has done so for quite a while. But he insists that it's at a rumor level. ...It's kind of interesting to talk about something different than the Montreal Media or the Koivu/Ribeiro controversy... I didn't mean to jump on anybody, Doc. It's just that there are so many rumors out there and the vast majority of them come to nothing. |
|
|
|
Post by PTH on Feb 25, 2004 23:38:58 GMT -5
I always said that Bulis was an excellent third line winger... I am sorry if I wasn't clear in this one post... However, what is clear is that we need at least one -power forward- type of winger (preferably 2) Quite frankly, I'm not sure we need that much size - size usually means lack of speed or skill (otherwise we're talking Joe Thornton) and a skilled team is best IMO, and I think what we really need are a few more gritty 2-way players who can score - ie, Ryder and Zednik clones. I think next season Higgins might be one of those guys. So we only need to acquire one other guy; Ryan Smyth would be nice.... (I know, I can dream on ! Getting Smyth would cost one of those top forwards...) Also, Bulis might be replaced by a guy like Balej, who has Bulis's speed but also more scoring skill. |
|
|
|
Post by AH on Feb 25, 2004 23:42:45 GMT -5
...that wasn't my point but it could generate a could discussion. To get back to what I was trying to say, replace those players (arnott and etc...) with names you feel represent fair value (we'll these guys package X). If Gainey was set to move Koivu and Rivet do you think he'd pass on that opportunity to get package X just because it might disturb this edition's chemistry ? I am not at all against moving either one, but not when the team has yet to clinch. If they were higher up in the standings and were practically assured of a spot in the post-season, then I could see it. But not at this juncture. The off-season, thats a different story. |
|
|
|
Post by Forum Ghost on Feb 26, 2004 1:18:28 GMT -5
While I don't necessarily agree with making blockbuster deals when your team is on the cusp of making the playoffs, it does depend, as Doc said, on what type of return you're getting.
Before the win against Calgary some fans were ready to blow this team up and start from scratch. Just because they put together an impressive string of games, it doesn't mean that there aren't serious holes in the Habs' lineup. There are still problems on this team that need to be permanently solved. Instead of upsetting the chemistry, a trade like this could be what gets the team over the hump and comfortably into the playoffs.
I am a huge fan of Koivu, but I am an even bigger fan of the Habs and I am in favour of any trade that improves the team and allows them to move forward. Therefore, as I said before, everything depends on the kind of names being discussed for Koivu.
I'm pretty sure Doc wouldn't post this topic if he didn't think that there was some credibility to the source who first reported the rumour. If our old friend MolsonMan is on to it as well, then judging by his track record, this rumour could be more than we think it is.
|
|
|
|
Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Feb 26, 2004 7:03:17 GMT -5
Thinking out loud:
Koivu + Rivet = $7M+
Which teams would be willing, under the prevalent economic atmosphere in the NHL, to take on that much salary?
Or are there separate trades being worked out for each player?
Inquiring gossips want to know.
|
|
|
|
Post by HFTO on Feb 26, 2004 8:37:33 GMT -5
It also could depend on where and what they were shipping back!
The Habs said they are willing to take on a little maybe
somebodys looking for a decent return and the amount they ship our way is more than 7 mil?....thus a savings and bonafide players that would appease their fans hmmmmmmm?All this speculation and no action.
HFTO
|
|
|
|
Post by Skilly on Feb 26, 2004 9:02:44 GMT -5
It also could depend on where and what they were shipping back! The Habs said they are willing to take on a little maybe somebodys looking for a decent return and the amount they ship our way is more than 7 mil?....thus a savings and bonafide players that would appease their fans hmmmmmmm?All this speculation and no action. HFTO Holik and Poti? |
|
|
|
Post by MetalHab on Feb 26, 2004 9:48:17 GMT -5
Just updating....on Fanhome, MolsonMan made an apperance & denied that he was BRAZ from Habfans and also denied that he knew of any trade rumour or that he posted on any other site.
Cheers !
|
|
