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Post by blny on May 8, 2018 11:03:10 GMT -5
I'd put the Brind'Amour hire in the Out of town thread, but this is substantial enough for a thread. Waddell drops interim tag from GM and also becomes Pres of Hockey ops.
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Post by seventeen on May 8, 2018 12:21:33 GMT -5
If I'm Bergevin, I'd be doing my damndest to pick up Carolina's unprotected first round pick next year. Dundon seems to be forcing his cheap=cheap strategy and you mostly get what you pay for (Serge Ibaka and Demar DeRozan excepted).
Brind'amour has been an assistant coach in Carolina for 7 years. No head coaching experience at all. He was a very good player and one who thought the game out, but to jump in to an NHL head coaching position without any such experience, even at juniour, is tough. Add Don Waddell as the new GM and a disaster is shaping up. Waddell was the GM of the Atlanta Threashers before being replaced by Kevin Chevaldayoff. Of his 10 seasons with the team, they made the playoffs once, (bounced in the first round) and missed them 9 times. Ok, it was an expansion team, but one can only excuse so much futility.
He had some scorers on his teams...Marc Savard, Kovalchuk, Marian Hossa, but his defense was a who's who of mediocrioty. FRantisek Kaberle, Yannick Tremblay, Jaroslav Modry, Greg DeVries and I could go on. Tobias Enstrom was perhaps his best d-man later in his tenure. He drafted Patrik Stefan first overall in 1999 (perhaps one of the worst drafts ever) ahead of the Sedins, but the rest of that draft was awful.
Anyway, not the best resume.
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Post by Willie Dog on May 8, 2018 14:02:09 GMT -5
If I'm Bergevin, I'd be doing my damndest to pick up Carolina's unprotected first round pick next year. Dundon seems to be forcing his cheap=cheap strategy and you mostly get what you pay for (Serge Ibaka and Demar DeRozan excepted). Brind'amour has been an assistant coach in Carolina for 7 years. No head coaching experience at all. He was a very good player and one who thought the game out, but to jump in to an NHL head coaching position without any such experience, even at juniour, is tough. Add Don Waddell as the new GM and a disaster is shaping up. Waddell was the GM of the Atlanta Threashers before being replaced by Kevin Chevaldayoff. Of his 10 seasons with the team, they made the playoffs once, (bounced in the first round) and missed them 9 times. Ok, it was an expansion team, but one can only excuse so much futility. He had some scorers on his teams...Marc Savard, Kovalchuk, Marian Hossa, but his defense was a who's who of mediocrioty. FRantisek Kaberle, Yannick Tremblay, Jaroslav Modry, Greg DeVries and I could go on. Tobias Enstrom was perhaps his best d-man later in his tenure. He drafted Patrik Stefan first overall in 1999 (perhaps one of the worst drafts ever) ahead of the Sedins, but the rest of that draft was awful. Anyway, not the best resume. Send them patches if we don't land Tavares |
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Post by NWTHabsFan on May 9, 2018 10:22:05 GMT -5
So the Canes now have a meddling owner, an old-school GM with a rather unimpressive track record, and an ex-assistant coach who also has not really won anything in that capacity either.
Fun times ahead in Raleigh.
Rick Dudley: all the best.
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Post by CentreHice on May 9, 2018 10:45:22 GMT -5
So the Canes now have a meddling owner, an old-school GM with a rather unimpressive track record, and an ex-assistant coach who also has not really won anything in that capacity either. Fun times ahead in Raleigh. Rick Dudley: all the best. Dudley and Waddell, together again. Thrashers Northeast.....good luck, indeed. |
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Post by seventeen on May 9, 2018 12:40:44 GMT -5
So the Canes now have a meddling owner, an old-school GM with a rather unimpressive track record, and an ex-assistant coach who also has not really won anything in that capacity either. Fun times ahead in Raleigh. Rick Dudley: all the best. But can we take advantage of it? |
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Post by Cranky on May 9, 2018 13:58:08 GMT -5
This is an ancient saying I just made up..... Ours is not to reason why......just steal from them and say goodbye.  |
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Post by seventeen on May 9, 2018 15:05:52 GMT -5
Plagiarizing Tennyson? Works for me.
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Post by franko on May 9, 2018 17:30:08 GMT -5
I'm thinking more like Steelers Wheel: clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right . . .
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Post by Cranky on May 9, 2018 17:36:27 GMT -5
I'm thinking more like Steelers Wheel: clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right . . . Greek politics writ large. Wait....ALL polticians. Period. |
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Post by folatre on May 9, 2018 20:32:32 GMT -5
Ron Francis was all about the slow methodical building process. Apparently Dundon wants to see results now. Maybe he thinks that is the only way to improve the revenue issues of the enterprise is to throw caution to the wind.
It seems to reason that Carolina is going to filter decisions through the lens of what sells tickets and what moves the needle enough to break almost a decade of no playoffs.
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Post by Willie Dog on May 9, 2018 21:14:54 GMT -5
I'm thinking more like Steelers Wheel: clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right . . . Sounds like the Habs executive offices... |
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Post by Willie Dog on May 9, 2018 21:18:17 GMT -5
Ron Francis was all about the slow methodical building process. Apparently Dundon wants to see results now. Maybe he thinks that is the only way to improve the revenue issues of the enterprise is to throw caution to the wind. It seems to reason that Carolina is going to filter decisions through the lens of what sells tickets and what moves the needle enough to break almost a decade of no playoffs. What would it take to get their 2nd? Max plus our 2nd for their 1st? |
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Post by seventeen on May 9, 2018 22:26:57 GMT -5
I'm thinking more like Steelers Wheel: clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right . . . Greek politics writ large. Wait....ALL polticians. Period. To a point. The more power they wield, the more likely they are to be bought and paid for, or have agendas contrary to the public good. Having served on some civic committees, I have to say that it's impossible to please everyone. Even when there are good goals trying to be achieved, there's always someone whining and complaining because they didn't get something. Right now I'm helping out with a possible renovation of our town swimming pool and rec centre. The town proper is about $18,000 and the surrounding area (Regional District) probably adds at least another 10,000. The Regional District does not contribute a penny to the pool operating costs or construction. Yet, those people living outside the city proper aren't banned from using the facilities. But do they raise a fuss when it's suggested their taxes go up a little bit to help run the pool. It's an entitlement attitude and too often the media gives those 'woe is me' people more attention than the 'silent majority'. Because it's conflict and conflict attracts viewers and listeners. So I don't jump on all politicians quickly. Some, granted, deserve more than just a jumping. A good mugging, perhaps.  |
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Post by folatre on May 9, 2018 22:30:07 GMT -5
Well, assuming Carolina sees Svechnikov as NHL ready now and 40 goal scorer in not so distant future, I just cannot anticipate them trading that kind of an asset. It seems as though Dundon wants star power and start a buzz about the Carolina franchise that has been missing among the casual fan for years. If anything, Dundon may see Svechnikov plus another star player as the jump start for a remaking the club's image and reaching post season in 2018-19.
If Dundon is one of those guys who assumes everything he touches turns to gold, then I would try to find a way to pry away a first rounder from the Canes in 2019 or 2020 because he might already be discounting the future value of those.
Pacioretty? It could be. I imagine the Canes had some interest in him before their 2017-18 began to stall out. Maybe now, though, with a NHL ready sniper like Svechnikov falling into their lap, acquiring another sniping winger may not be a big priority. Time will say, but I kind of see the best fits for Pacioretty being Florida, Buffalo, or those clubs out West we were talking about earlier.
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Post by seventeen on May 9, 2018 22:31:33 GMT -5
Ron Francis was all about the slow methodical building process. Apparently Dundon wants to see results now. Maybe he thinks that is the only way to improve the revenue issues of the enterprise is to throw caution to the wind. It seems to reason that Carolina is going to filter decisions through the lens of what sells tickets and what moves the needle enough to break almost a decade of no playoffs. I recommend Mr. Dundon compare the slow, methodical method (Winnipeg) to the results now method (Montreal). I doubt it would make any difference to his thinking. He seems to be the "I want results now" type and in a hockey Cap world, without a terrific (well paid) GM that's highly unlikely to happen. That's fine. We all need chum to feast off. |
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Post by seventeen on May 9, 2018 22:34:27 GMT -5
If Dundon is one of those guys who assumes everything he touches turns to gold, then I would try to find a way to pry away a first rounder from the Canes in 2019 or 2020 because he might already be discounting the future value of those. Pacioretty? It could be. I imagine the Canes had some interest in him before their 2017-18 began to stall out. Maybe now, though, with a NHL ready sniper like Svechnikov falling into their lap, acquiring another sniping winger may not be a big priority. Time will say, but I kind of see the best fits for Pacioretty being Florida, Buffalo, or those clubs out West we were talking about earlier. Bingo. I'd be doing my damndest to get Carolina's first round pick NEXT year. Dundon won't see the cost today and that seems important to him. My impressions are that he is very cheap so best to make him think he's getting a terrific asset for nothing. (Duh). |
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Post by PTH on May 9, 2018 23:16:30 GMT -5
Old school GM ? Interested in a big, bruising old-school defenseman who will soon cost fewer dollars than his cap hit ?
Weber is just the kind of veteran D they need to anchor that young defense. I'm sure a young D for Weber could be worked out...
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Post by seventeen on May 10, 2018 0:19:50 GMT -5
Weber, Pacioretty and Shaw for Hanifin, Aho and their 1st rounder next year. (I'm not greedy). We can throw in some depth defensemen as well.
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Post by franko on May 10, 2018 5:48:04 GMT -5
Shaw's got too much character and attitude for Berg to trade.
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Post by Willie Dog on May 10, 2018 7:17:10 GMT -5
Shaw's got too much character and attitude for Berg to trade. And concussions |
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Post by Willie Dog on May 10, 2018 7:17:39 GMT -5
Weber, Pacioretty and Shaw for Hanifin, Aho and their 1st rounder next year. (I'm not greedy). We can throw in some depth defensemen as well. Sold... |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on May 10, 2018 13:13:58 GMT -5
Weber, Pacioretty and Shaw for Hanifin, Aho and their 1st rounder next year. (I'm not greedy). We can throw in some depth defensemen as well.
Holy culture change, Batman ... on the surface it looks more like a dumping of players from Marc Bergevin's dream team ... I wonder if they'd go for:
To Carolina |
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To Montreal |
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| Max Pacrioretty | | Noah Hanifin | Brett Lernout | | Elias Lindholm | 2018 #3 overall pick
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| 2018 #2 overall pick
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or
To Carolina | |
To Montreal | |
| | Max Pacioretty |
| Noah Hanifin | Alex Galchenyuk |
| Martin Necas |
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| 2018 #2 overall pick |
... the second proposal comes from when we picked up Bobby Smith for Keith Acton and Mark Napier ...
... not saying Martin Necas is the next Smith but moving Galchenyuk also removes the drama that seems to swirl around him from time to time ... ... something tells me that he wouldn't mind moving out, anyway ...
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Post by franko on May 10, 2018 14:59:59 GMT -5
To Carolina | |
To Montreal |
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| Max Pacioretty |
| Noah Hanifin | Alex Galchenyuk |
| Martin Necas |
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| 2018 #2 overall pick |
it's "go big or go home", is it Dis?
though I think even Garth Snow has learned that if you are giving trading away your high #1 pick you'd better get a #1 pick back, so if Carolina were to "allow" the Habs their #1 ours would have to go back. but boy, to have both of them . . .  |
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Post by seventeen on May 10, 2018 16:11:45 GMT -5
I was not only being greedy with my 'suggested trade', it was facetioius. I doubt Dudley signs off on 'my' trade. I doubt he signs off even if next yer years pick is taken off the table. But who knows....under pressure from the boss to get better now?
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Post by folatre on May 10, 2018 22:08:57 GMT -5
During the season I see some highlights of Carolina games and maybe watch a handful of whole games, for me Hanifin looks like a great young d-man who struggles at times defensively. Again, I watch so little Canes hockey perhaps I am missing something. Do you guys understand why Carolina would want to move a 21-22 kid who led their d-corps in points and made the all-star team? I mean, it is not like he is not a guy contributing in the present if the organisational mandate is to go for it and win now.
I would actually think Dundon and Brind'Amour might be eager to send a couple of the leadership clique packing, in pariticular Faulk and Skinner (if he would waive his NMC).
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Post by seventeen on May 10, 2018 23:59:51 GMT -5
There's no reason for Carolina to move Hanifin. Course, there was no reason for Montreal to trade Subban either. Sometimes the GM has a different viewpoint. Carolina has a surplus of good young defenseman. Jake Bean is graduating from juniour hockey this season, so they'll have even more...perhaps enough to strengthen a different part of the team (wing) by using a strong part of their team (defense). I prefer Hanifin because he's younger than Brett Pesce or Justin Faulk and more of an offensive threat.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on May 11, 2018 6:06:58 GMT -5
I was not only being greedy with my 'suggested trade', it was facetioius. Yes, I understood this and even had a little chuckle over it ... I just took it in another direction ... Cheers. |
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Post by franko on May 11, 2018 6:39:28 GMT -5
and I'd be happy with a little instead of the opposite. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on May 11, 2018 6:55:19 GMT -5
To Carolina | |
To Montreal |
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| Max Pacioretty |
| Noah Hanifin | Alex Galchenyuk |
| Martin Necas |
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| 2018 #2 overall pick |
it's "go big or go home", is it Dis?
though I think even Garth Snow has learned that if you are giving trading away your high #1 pick you'd better get a #1 pick back, so if Carolina were to "allow" the Habs their #1 ours would have to go back. but boy, to have both of them . . . I mentioned Alex Galchenyuk in the same vein as Max Pacioretty because I think they could both benefit from a change of scenery ... the team has to move on from the Pacioretty era, while Galchenyuk always seems to be the object of discussion for whatever the reason ... just listening to a rerun of a broadcast on TSN 690 yesterday and they were talking about Carolina moving some players out ... they also mentioned that the Canes have the same group of forwards and it looks like there are going to be changes ... they also need a goaltender and a guy like Charlie Lindgren might be just the goalie to back up that young defence corps TSN mentioned ... back to the Dynamic Duo, if you're serious about hitting the reset button then, yes, I'd move both of them out ... I doubt either of the would mind that, but that's only a guess on my part ... Cheers. |
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