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Post by BadCompany on Oct 12, 2018 9:41:33 GMT -5
According to Pierre Lebrun, Bergevin has told all other GMs that he's open to dealing a forward or two. Largely because of the log-jam that could develop once Deslauriers and De la Rose are cleared to play. Also could be interpreted as a strong sign that Kotkaniemi is going to be sticking around for a while.
Based on perceived values, both to us and others, my guess is Charles Hudon is the most likely to be dealt, if a deal is to be made. I would guess Shaw is also available, but teams might want to see him play for a while, to see if he is completely healed, long term.
Others, like DLR, Scherbak, and Peca really have no value to others, and aside from the aforemention Shaw I can't see Bergevin dealing a "core-ish" player at this point.
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Post by blny on Oct 12, 2018 10:14:39 GMT -5
According to Pierre Lebrun, Bergevin has told all other GMs that he's open to dealing a forward or two. Largely because of the log-jam that could develop once Deslauriers and De la Rose are cleared to play. Also could be interpreted as a strong sign that Kotkaniemi is going to be sticking around for a while. Based on perceived values, both to us and others, my guess is Charles Hudon is the most likely to be dealt, if a deal is to be made. I would guess Shaw is also available, but teams might want to see him play for a while, to see if he is completely healed, long term. Others, like DLR, Scherbak, and Peca really have no value to others, and aside from the aforemention Shaw I can't see Bergevin dealing a "core-ish" player at this point. Yep. Anyone not exempt from waivers should consider themselves on notice. Even if it's a tactic to motivate some guys, there's simply too many bodies. |
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Oct 12, 2018 10:53:07 GMT -5
According to Pierre Lebrun, Bergevin has told all other GMs that he's open to dealing a forward or two. Largely because of the log-jam that could develop once Deslauriers and De la Rose are cleared to play. Also could be interpreted as a strong sign that Kotkaniemi is going to be sticking around for a while. Based on perceived values, both to us and others, my guess is Charles Hudon is the most likely to be dealt, if a deal is to be made. I would guess Shaw is also available, but teams might want to see him play for a while, to see if he is completely healed, long term. Others, like DLR, Scherbak, and Peca really have no value to others, and aside from the aforemention Shaw I can't see Bergevin dealing a "core-ish" player at this point. I think your logic makes sense. Teams are not going to give much for DLR, Scherbak or Peca (the most likely to be waived) if they know they can pick up one or two of them for free in the next two weeks. I also worry that Berg still attaches an almost "immovable" tag to Shaw, as it appeared at the trade deadline in the past. In my opinion, if you can improve your team with a trade, then do it. You cannot get too attached to certain players or have too big of an untouchable core. Glad to see all the mainstream media attention on this now that issue is looming. A number of us on this board have been flagging this issue for a while. There were always going to be too many forwards on NHL deals that had to clear waivers. KK has definitely added an extra name to that list if he lasts beyond 9 games. He is doing his best to show that he should stay. I am still torn on it though. |
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Post by seventeen on Oct 12, 2018 13:50:21 GMT -5
One could make a good case for KK being the best centre so far. His face off percentages have improved a lot. IMO he’s been very good at creating scoring chances for his wingers. I can’t see returning him to Finland. To me he’s earned his spot and keeps getting better game by game
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Post by Polarice on Oct 12, 2018 14:14:11 GMT -5
I'm sure there is interest in DLR, many people in the hockey world speak highly of him as a good 3rd or 4th line guy. But if I was a betting man I think Shaw is good as gone.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Oct 12, 2018 14:40:19 GMT -5
I'm sure there is interest in DLR, many people in the hockey world speak highly of him as a good 3rd or 4th line guy. But if I was a betting man I think Shaw is good as gone. Just this past Spring DLR was a key centre (played alongside Forsberg) at the World Championships, and brought home a gold medal. He has to be on teams' radar screens as an effective depth guy. I am just not convinced that Berg could get close enough to good value for him given that other teams know that Berg is facing a pending waiver problem. I don't think DLR would clear waivers though. |
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Post by Cranky on Oct 12, 2018 19:05:35 GMT -5
We should deal DLR because he has some size.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Oct 13, 2018 8:48:55 GMT -5
We should deal DLR because he has some size. He would have more value than Scherbak right now. It is also the reason I hope we can keep DLR. He would slide in very nicely to this up tempo, aggressive forecheck style of game. |
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Post by seventeen on Oct 13, 2018 13:21:10 GMT -5
We should deal DLR because he has some size. if only we could get older, quickly. Then we'd be 'first' in all 3 categories. |
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Post by seventeen on Oct 13, 2018 13:25:21 GMT -5
The obvious solution to this dilemma is to waive Alzner, Schlemko or Benn. PLeks and Peca are other candidates. All are failed or failing experiments, or guys that are highly unlikely to ever be better or to be anything more than a depth player. DLR and Scherbak may have some upside still or be no worse than depth players. Which guys would you waive first?
It will be interesting to see if Bergevin gets to that point, and if he squeaks out by trading someone, who he trades and for what. We'll learn more in the coming days about Mr. Bergevin's managing abilities. Can he get himself out of this painted corner? At little cost?
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Post by folatre on Oct 13, 2018 16:48:40 GMT -5
With feisty smallish players like Gallagher and Domi (even Hudon is annoying to play against), for me Shaw would be the logical guy to move before more injury issues happen. However, I would be shocked if Bergevin does that.
I would send Peca down. He may be a fun guy to play pond hockey with but he looks like a d-zone liability and for a fourth liner that is highly problematic. Plus, management gave him a poison pill type contract for a guy who is 25 years old with fewer than 25 games in the league. I feel pretty sure that Peca would not get picked up so he could entertain the ticket buying public in Laval because he really is a dynamic offensive player in the AHL.
Hockey is debatable, but I actually do believe that De la Rose and Scherbak would be claimed if they are exposed. The Swede is never going to be a dynamic NHL player but he is young, big, fast, cheap and it is easy to project a role for him (4C or if everything goes great maybe 3C). The Russian is young, skilled, pretty nice size and speed, cheap and while he is harder to project confidently into a specific NHL role, someone would take a flyer on a kid like this who has never even got a half season run in the league.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Oct 13, 2018 21:46:56 GMT -5
Heard it on the broadcast last night and the first thing I thought of was, how an announcement like this would affect the team ... the other side, of course, is that it's about as transparent as you can get ... I don't know what the deal is with Jacob De La Rose ... he wasn't a scoring juggernaut, but he was one of the more noticeable players on the ice for Montreal last year ... thought he'd be getting more opportunities this year but it hasn't worked out for him ...
Cheers.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Oct 14, 2018 9:59:56 GMT -5
I wonder if they were not able to move anyone right now if Peca is not the safest guy to send down. A few have mentioned it. He is on a two year deal at $1.3M, which may deter teams. He is the older of the three, and still not an established NHLer. In fact he has played fewer games than even Scherbak. He has not looked liked a regular in his three game trial (ignore the good play in the preseason, it is not a true gauge of playing against full teams), and this is on a team without any top end centre depth on it on the current roster...just a lot of middling guys and a sheltered 18 year old who will be a good one.
And next year, having this sort of centre depth would not bother me at all given our “retool”:
Domi
Kotkaniemi
Poehling
Danault
DLR
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Post by PTH on Oct 14, 2018 23:38:09 GMT -5
I see this as a sign that guys like Peca or Deslauriers might get waived, and guys like Sherbak or DLR might be available for a price, though I think neither would clear waivers at this point.
The smart play IMO is to waive Alzner - no one will take him (and if they did, we win out anyways).
I worry about Hudon, I love his skill but he can't seem to get a significant break, and keeping another smallish guy on a small team when he isn't putting up numbers is difficult.
Shaw might be possible if a team is willing to give up something for him (at least a 2nd rounder and a lower pick)
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Post by seventeen on Oct 15, 2018 1:18:30 GMT -5
I think both Julien and Bergevin like Deslauriers a lot. I suspect he would not be their first choice to put on waivers. We will find out, I guess, if Bergevin really is able to admit his mistakes, if Alzner goes on Waivers. I can't see anyone picking him up either, certainly not at that salary, but he would only be a stop gap measure. When Weber returns another body will have to go on waivers, if Bergevin hasn't completed a trade. Tricky navigation.
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Post by BadCompany on Oct 15, 2018 9:11:49 GMT -5
Putting Alzner on waivers doesn't do anything for the log-jam up front though.
I still think Hudon and DLR are the most likely candidates to go. They have value to bottom feeders in that they can play in the NHL, and still might have some upside, so I think there might be interest there. While I'm sure Bergevin is holding out for a decent pick in return, the likely offers are in the Kenny Dagostino or Michel Chaput range. Good AHL players and not much else.
I'd keep an eye on Anaheim. They've got a tonne of injuries, and could be looking for some warm bodies to tide them over until some of their guys start getting healthy.
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Post by blny on Oct 16, 2018 10:47:18 GMT -5
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Oct 16, 2018 10:52:13 GMT -5
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Post by folatre on Oct 16, 2018 18:08:35 GMT -5
Well, then, in reality at least one more move needs to be made when Deslauriers is healed up.
I guess the next move depends on present value versus future value calculations. If management thinks depth players like Plekanec, Shaw, and Deslauriers are indispensable to the plan to chase the playoffs this season then I guess the choice will be trade Hudon or Scherbak for something (4th rounder or irrelevant second tier prospect) less than they are worth. If management sees this team having too little talent to sustain a playoff point pace, then the choice would be trade Shaw or waive Deslauriers or Peca (they will almost certainly not be claimed anyway).
Asset management means one thing for a contender. And it should mean something entirely different for a non-contender.
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Post by PTH on Oct 16, 2018 22:20:02 GMT -5
Well, then, in reality at least one more move needs to be made when Deslauriers is healed up. I guess the next move depends on present value versus future value calculations. If management thinks depth players like Plekanec, Shaw, and Deslauriers are indispensable to the plan to chase the playoffs this season then I guess the choice will be trade Hudon or Scherbak for something (4th rounder or irrelevant second tier prospect) less than they are worth. If management sees this team having too little talent to sustain a playoff point pace, then the choice would be trade Shaw or waive Deslauriers or Peca (they will almost certainly not be claimed anyway). Asset management means one thing for a contender. And it should mean something entirely different for a non-contender. I agree from start to finish. I also think that we need to consider long-term depth: Peca isn't anything special, this is likely Plek's last year, we need depth at C. As a 4th liner/extra forward DLR is a good fit, but for the short term, yes he might require adjustments to make room for him. Sherbak should get a few games. It might lessen our odds of winning, but we need to be developing talent, not playing Deslauriers or Shaw instead of a kid who might just need 20 games to figure it all out. Then again, he might be showing up late and hung over at every practice, so what do I know. I still think waiving Alzner should be our first move, though. |
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Post by seventeen on Oct 17, 2018 1:22:34 GMT -5
Very good points made above, but realistically, I can't see this regime doing what is suggested. They are not long term thinkers and are satisfied with being 'good enough' to make the playoffs. Winning the Cup 3 years from now is not the object.
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