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Post by Polarice on Nov 14, 2018 10:15:48 GMT -5
TSN is reporting that the Leafs are looking at trading Nylander, the asking price is apparently a top 4 dman, a top 6 forward and a prospect or pick.
Is this someone we have interest in? Could we actually make a play for him? We have the cap space, do we have the assets?
Would Armia/Juulsen/Agostino or 1st get their attention? Is that too much to give up?
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Post by blny on Nov 14, 2018 10:59:13 GMT -5
TSN is reporting that the Leafs are looking at trading Nylander, the asking price is apparently a top 4 dman, a top 6 forward and a prospect or pick. Is this someone we have interest in? Could we actually make a play for him? We have the cap space, do we have the assets? Would Armia/Juulsen/Agostino or 1st get their attention? Is that too much to give up? IMO, they're asking too much. Nylander doesn't drive offense and he's not an elite goal scorer. He's a good player that benefited from being part of a deep group of forwards. If he were a finisher, I might consider it. But, we're still talking about a guy that had two low 20 goal seasons and 60 points in that group. We've got a plethora of guys right now that could accomplish that imo. The Leafs can ask for that, but I think they're going to have to lower their expectations. A top 4 D OR a top 6 forward and the prospect/pick depends on the quality of the first piece. Nylander is only a top 6 forward himself. |
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Post by Polarice on Nov 14, 2018 11:10:40 GMT -5
TSN is reporting that the Leafs are looking at trading Nylander, the asking price is apparently a top 4 dman, a top 6 forward and a prospect or pick. Is this someone we have interest in? Could we actually make a play for him? We have the cap space, do we have the assets? Would Armia/Juulsen/Agostino or 1st get their attention? Is that too much to give up? IMO, they're asking too much. Nylander doesn't drive offense and he's not an elite goal scorer. He's a good player that benefited from being part of a deep group of forwards. If he were a finisher, I might consider it. But, we're still talking about a guy that had two low 20 goal seasons and 60 points in that group. We've got a plethora of guys right now that could accomplish that imo. The Leafs can ask for that, but I think they're going to have to lower their expectations. A top 4 D OR a top 6 forward and the prospect/pick depends on the quality of the first piece. Nylander is only a top 6 forward himself. Agreed....I think they would have plenty of takers if they asked for either a top 4 dman or top 6 forward with a pick or prospect. Even if he is looking for a 7 to 8 million contract. |
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Post by blny on Nov 14, 2018 16:07:06 GMT -5
IMO, they're asking too much. Nylander doesn't drive offense and he's not an elite goal scorer. He's a good player that benefited from being part of a deep group of forwards. If he were a finisher, I might consider it. But, we're still talking about a guy that had two low 20 goal seasons and 60 points in that group. We've got a plethora of guys right now that could accomplish that imo. The Leafs can ask for that, but I think they're going to have to lower their expectations. A top 4 D OR a top 6 forward and the prospect/pick depends on the quality of the first piece. Nylander is only a top 6 forward himself. Agreed....I think they would have plenty of takers if they asked for either a top 4 dman or top 6 forward with a pick or prospect. Even if he is looking for a 7 to 8 million contract. I look at it this way, if we put Drouin on the block are we getting that package back? Nope, and honestly I don't see a lot of difference between the players. Drouin got a high end prospect. Sergachev played more than 40 games, so the picks were negated. Toronto could expect a little more because Nylander has had 2 60 point seasons, but swap the players and Drouin puts up 2 60 point seasons in Toronto. |
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Post by seventeen on Nov 14, 2018 18:57:32 GMT -5
And Nylander will continue to be a contract headache. That has to be factored in whether the Leafs like it or not.
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Post by folatre on Nov 14, 2018 21:14:01 GMT -5
It will be interesting to see what Toronto receives for Nylander if it comes to that.
I doubt Dubas would want to take a chance on trading him within the division, in particular not to Montreal or Boston. And we all know that Bergevin would never concede his mistake by trading Weber; if anything, management already doubled down on Weber by naming him captain.
If I was Carolina, notoriously revenue-challenged and cheap, I would figure out how to get Aho's name on a 7 or 8 year deal before worrying about Nylander. Anaheim might be interested but they have cap problems well beyond this season and thus could only do a deal if a third party became involved and took someone off their hands. Also, the Ducks have Rackell on virtually the most club friendly deal in the league and how is he going to feel about Nylander banking twice the dollars that he makes each season.
In the end, I imagine that Toronto would want too much for Nylander to actually find a partner. I still think the likeliest scenario is the Leafs and Nylander agreeing on a two year bridge.
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Post by CentreHice on Nov 15, 2018 11:11:08 GMT -5
I have a feeling Poile would do a straight-up Weber-for-Nylander.
Asset management 101.
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Post by seventeen on Nov 15, 2018 13:34:21 GMT -5
It will be interesting to see what Toronto receives for Nylander if it comes to that. I doubt Dubas would want to take a chance on trading him within the division, in particular not to Montreal or Boston. And we all know that Bergevin would never concede his mistake by trading Weber; if anything, management already doubled down on Weber by naming him captain. If I was Carolina, notoriously revenue-challenged and cheap, I would figure out how to get Aho's name on a 7 or 8 year deal before worrying about Nylander. Anaheim might be interested but they have cap problems well beyond this season and thus could only do a deal if a third party became involved and took someone off their hands. Also, the Ducks have Rackell on virtually the most club friendly deal in the league and how is he going to feel about Nylander banking twice the dollars that he makes each season. In the end, I imagine that Toronto would want too much for Nylander to actually find a partner. I still think the likeliest scenario is the Leafs and Nylander agreeing on a two year bridge. If the Leafs are looking for a defenceman in return (not guaranteed), then Anaheim is a terrible partner. They're looking for defensemen, not looking to trade one away. Hmmmmm...perhaps they could use a Weber? For their first round pick?  |
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Post by seventeen on Nov 15, 2018 13:35:00 GMT -5
I have a feeling Poile would do a straight-up Weber-for-Nylander. Asset management 101. So how do we get Poile? Or do you mean Yannick Weber? |
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Post by blny on Nov 15, 2018 16:14:44 GMT -5
I have a feeling Poile would do a straight-up Weber-for-Nylander. Asset management 101. Would anyone trade Weber for Drouin? Which is PK for Drouin. I wouldn't. I just don't think Nylander and Drouin are all that different. |
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Post by CentreHice on Nov 15, 2018 18:51:37 GMT -5
Let me clarify.
IF Poile was somehow able to skirt our GM restriction....and IF he didn't acquire Weber by trading Subban.....I think he'd find a 22-year-old, healthy, skilled, Top 6 forward to join Domi, Gallagher, Drouin, Tatar, and Kotka more than appealing. Especially for a 33-year-old dman--with a somewhat similar contract--coming off knee surgery.
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Post by blny on Nov 15, 2018 19:41:51 GMT -5
Let me clarify. IF Poile was somehow able to skirt our GM restriction....and IF he didn't acquire Weber by trading Subban.....I think he'd find a 22-year-old, healthy, skilled, Top 6 forward to join Domi, Gallagher, Drouin, Tatar, and Kotka more than appealing. Especially for a 33-year-old dman--with a somewhat similar contract--coming off knee surgery. You were clear. I just don't think Nylander is significantly better than Drouin and if Tampa's asking price for Drouin 2 summers ago was Weber I'm not sure any GM makes that deal. |
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Post by CentreHice on Nov 15, 2018 20:17:50 GMT -5
Let me clarify. IF Poile was somehow able to skirt our GM restriction....and IF he didn't acquire Weber by trading Subban.....I think he'd find a 22-year-old, healthy, skilled, Top 6 forward to join Domi, Gallagher, Drouin, Tatar, and Kotka more than appealing. Especially for a 33-year-old dman--with a somewhat similar contract--coming off knee surgery. You were clear. I just don't think Nylander is significantly better than Drouin and if Tampa's asking price for Drouin 2 summers ago was Weber I'm not sure any GM makes that deal. I agree. Back then, Poile likely doesn't trade Weber for Nylander....even with a similar clock ticking. But, I'm talking about now. There isn't a "Subban-on-the-desperation-clock" available...Weber is two years older, returning from surgery. Nothing against Shea. He simply became susceptible to asset-management because of a unique situation. |
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Post by jkr on Nov 16, 2018 9:33:32 GMT -5
The Leafs don't seem to be missing him this week. Have beaten the Kings & the Sharks with a combined score of 10-4.
BTW, they showed Karlsson's stats going into the game last night - 19 games, 0 goals, 8 assists & a -9. Ugh!
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Post by blny on Nov 16, 2018 15:05:35 GMT -5
You were clear. I just don't think Nylander is significantly better than Drouin and if Tampa's asking price for Drouin 2 summers ago was Weber I'm not sure any GM makes that deal. I agree. Back then, Poile likely doesn't trade Weber for Nylander....even with a similar clock ticking. But, I'm talking about now. There isn't a "Subban-on-the-desperation-clock" available...Weber is two years older, returning from surgery. Nothing against Shea. He simply became susceptible to asset-management because of a unique situation. I don't think I'd do it today, because if Tampa came to me today and offered Drouin for Shea it's not a move I'd do. Nylander is a play making winger who has benefited from playing with two of the best sub 25 players in the league - Matthews and Marner. We have plenty of that. Despite our scoring by committee to date, we really need a clutch finisher, and we're simply not going to get a high end center in trade unless he's old. Ideally, that guy is a rhs. Look at the best PPs in the league and they overload with rhs players. That finisher, playing with KK, and boom. |
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Post by The Habitual Fan on Nov 16, 2018 15:09:43 GMT -5
I think some of that shine is starting to come off Kyle Dubas who said when he signed Tavares they could keep everyone. Shanahan was expecting players to take discounts for the honour of playing for the Leafs and Nylander is the first guy to say no. I don't expect that Mariner will either and even Matthews could pull a Tavares and prefer to take his discount to be in sunny California, Arizona or Vegas in a few years.
Despite filling the net every night they need Anderson to be above average most games to win and Hainsey is still in your top four on defense. That window for the Leafs to win may be a lot tighter than some think.
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Post by blny on Nov 16, 2018 16:30:41 GMT -5
I think some of that shine is starting to come off Kyle Dubas who said when he signed Tavares they could keep everyone. Shanahan was expecting players to take discounts for the honour of playing for the Leafs and Nylander is the first guy to say no. I don't expect that Mariner will either and even Matthews could pull a Tavares and prefer to take his discount to be in sunny California, Arizona or Vegas in a few years. Despite filling the net every night they need Anderson to be above average most games to win and Hainsey is still in your top four on defense. That window for the Leafs to win may be a lot tighter than some think. I've always seen Nylander as the piece that has to be sacrificed to address deficiencies on the blueline. I think many people do, both inside and outside the league. |
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Post by Cranky on Nov 16, 2018 19:45:22 GMT -5
You get Nylander and you get a future signing problem. Unless you sign him for 7 years, a dangerous move for a 22 year old that can mail it in for a good chunk of that. AND he got 20 goals playing with elite players. How is he going to be with Shaw and Drouin?
I rather have Kadri. He can be out no1 center now and number two by next year.
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Post by jkr on Dec 1, 2018 17:07:42 GMT -5
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Post by Willie Dog on Dec 1, 2018 17:19:39 GMT -5
Ok so now they'll have to sign Matthews and Marner... they'll have almost 40 million tied up in 4 players
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Post by blny on Dec 1, 2018 17:33:53 GMT -5
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Post by franko on Dec 1, 2018 18:16:26 GMT -5
well, the Leafs said they wouldn't go 7M and they stuck to their guns. 6.9 it is. and a trade in February.
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Post by folatre on Dec 1, 2018 18:37:40 GMT -5
Nylander did pretty well for himself in my view. He is a high end offensive talent and two 61 point seasons signify genuine productivity, but I would prefer Pasternak or Gaudreau. However, I know that you have to take into account the year to year inflation that occurs.
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Post by blny on Dec 1, 2018 19:00:39 GMT -5
Pregame show summation:
He's basically gone after this year. The first year is a huge cap hit because of the prorating from missing the first 2 months.
Burke thinks he's the 6th or 7th best player on the club. "You don't pay your 6th or 7th best guy that much." "Matthews and Marner have learned that they can hold out and get exactly what they want. No incentive to sign before December 1." While Kipper and Elliot were blowing Cup visions THIS year up butts, Burke doesn't think they're a contender this year.
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Post by franko on Dec 1, 2018 19:18:27 GMT -5
Pregame show summation: He's basically gone after this year. The first year is a huge cap hit because of the prorating from missing the first 2 months. Burke thinks he's the 6th or 7th best player on the club. "You don't pay your 6th or 7th best guy that much." "Matthews and Marner have learned that they can hold out and get exactly what they want. No incentive to sign before December 1." While Kipper and Elliot were blowing Cup visions THIS year up butts, Burke doesn't think they're a contender this year. Burke would know what a Cup-non-winner looks like But he's right all the way along. |
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Post by Anardil1 on Dec 2, 2018 11:35:06 GMT -5
Welcome to Cap Hell. Their Cup window is now wide open, but it won't last long. With Marner and Matthews due next year, they are going to have to do some Blackhawk magic to be able to keep their core together and continue to contend.
I hate to say this, but I'm a little envious.
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Post by blny on Dec 2, 2018 17:29:00 GMT -5
Welcome to Cap Hell. Their Cup window is now wide open, but it won't last long. With Marner and Matthews due next year, they are going to have to do some Blackhawk magic to be able to keep their core together and continue to contend. I hate to say this, but I'm a little envious. Willy's as good as gone. Leafs will eat this year and the inflated cap hit because of the contract coming during the season. His 19-20 salary is a $8.3 million bonus on July 1st and 700k for the season. They'll likely have to eat that as well. Expect him to be moved before camp in September. What really will sting the Leafs is that Matthews and Marner now see the formula. There's no incentive for them to sign quickly. Ride it out as long as possible. Who cares if you miss the start of the year? You'll be that much fresher for the playoffs. |
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Dec 2, 2018 19:15:35 GMT -5
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Post by seventeen on Dec 3, 2018 13:50:32 GMT -5
There are leaf fans who would pay big to have a camera in Justin Holl's residence to amaze themselves at everything he does.
"Look at how he opened that can of tuna! There isn't a defenseman in the NHL who can do it better."
My defense mechanism is to switch channels everytime there's a Leaf story on. Two nights ago it didn't help because Matthews was on 360, I switched to Sportsnet and he was on there and then I switched to TSN and guess what!?
So I went back to something I'd taped earlier. I simply refuse to watch that drivel and bombast. I dream that they meet Boston in the first round and lose again. It might cost Babcock his job; The Dubas can bring in his buddy, Keefe.
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Post by CentreHice on Dec 3, 2018 14:35:21 GMT -5
I can see this kind of coverage being regional....but is ALL of this maple syrup being poured coast-to-coast-to-coast?
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